horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I figure I have thirty or so more years before I need to hang up my driving gloves and given my wife and I never learned to drive cars with automatic transmissions, I'm wondering if I should start building a collection so I have enough cars in my stable to last the rest of my driving life. Yesterday I came across this gem and am sorely tempted to pull the trigger: https://www.throttlestop.com/vehicle...92-lexus-sc300

After that I might need say, an S2000 or something of that ilk, and maybe even get back into a 3G TL in the form of a Type-S 6MT. Anybody else feeling the need to start a collection so they have enough pedals for their left leg to push for the rest of their lives?

00TL-P3.2

Part of why I bought the Midget, missed having a MT in my life.
Even considered dropping the Explorer for a MT daily. Had found a R53 Mini nearby, but the mileage & not great communication from the seller pushed me off of it.

Chief F1 Fan

Next purchase is a used Cayman with a manual within the next 1 year or so.

00TL-P3.2

A Cayman would probably be the P-car I'd opt for, partly for budget reasons

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, a Cayman, either new or used, is on my list as well.

PhilB81

Why do you need to collect? Variety? I figured just buy one in good condition and upkeep it well.

Im definitely with you on the manual thing, we have 2 manual cars now (out of 3 cars total). None are on the chopping block, but the TL’s age is sometimes a concern, even though it’s in great shape mechanically and cosmetically. There are 2 main factors we still have it, one is that we love it and it’s been very reliable, second is because it’s hard to find a big sedan with a manual. I did briefly consider a CT5 V blackwing.

there are several old cars with a manual I would love to have, but a combination of purchase cost, fear of how the car was treated at the hand of prior owners and I’m not very mechanically inclined has kept me from pursuing this further.

Chief F1 Fan

We "only" have 1/3 cars with a manual instead of the previous 2/4. Oh well.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking to build a small collection of these cars now before they are all gone and/or become as expensive as unobtanium. In addition to my Tacoma 6MT, I'm thinking something like that SC300 I posted above, a 3G TL Type-S (to cover the sedan duties), and an S2000 or Cayman for the sportier duties will last me until I'm well into my 90s.

SamDoe1

1 out of my 3 cars are manual and I absolutely love it. I don't think they're going to go the way of the dodo anytime soon though, at least not for the next 10-20 years. There are more than enough enthusiasts who still desire the manual that the market will still have them, though in smaller numbers. The good part is that these cars aren't likely to be crazy money because people can't afford them if they are. While a fully MT collection would be super cool, I don't think you need to "stock up" on cars just to make sure you have a manual from here on out haha.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I suspect sports cars will continue to offer manual gearboxes for a while at least, however, with the exception of the hideous (IMHO) Blackwings, the ability to buy a sedan similar to a 2007-2008 TL Type-S are pretty much gone.

SamDoe1

Integra Type S and CTR are the new ones in that size and power range.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

The Integra/CTR siblings are both non-starters for me; I'm just too old to be driving one of them.

PhilB81

One car I wish I could have afforded a while back was an e39 m5. My father-in-law had a 530i with the sport pack (auto though) what a pretty car. If it was manual, wife and I would have kept it.
I also would have like to have a Mercedes E class W124.

I do think a TLX TypeS with a manual would have been sweet though, but honestly, I’m not sure it would be enough to trade my 3g TL for one.

as far as ct5 V blackwing looks, to me it’s far prettier than the new M2, new 5 series, m3 and m4.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Here's my E39 530i 5MT Sport Package, Premium Package, Premium Audio, Xenon Headlights at a rest area in France (I picked it up through BMW's European Delivery program):

00TL-P3.2

Even though it was never offered with a manual, a W124 500E/E500 would be the one to have.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I worked for Mercedes Benz USA back in the 1990s and did a number of trips over to Stuttgart; on one of those trips I got a chance to drive an E420 5MT, and honestly, I was disappointed. Why? Compared to the BMW manual transmissions of that era, the Mercedes unit felt like I was driving a truck; a truck like our old 4.9 liter I6 1995 Ford F-150.

00TL-P3.2

Very few of the MB manuals have I heard glowing reviews on, despite the odd shift pattern, I did like the 190E 2.3-16.
Only other manual MB I've driven was a 1970 280SL with a 4spd, and that car was a blast.

Will Y.

Might want to try learning an automatic now while enjoying the manual trans cars. Get or stay with one or two manual cars you really enjoy (some manuals aren't very fun) and keep them maintained.
I'm driving the manual transmission convertible whenever my wife doesn't make us take her car, but anticipate driving an automatic transmission or electric car if my occasional arthritis symptoms worsen in the future.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

LOL, yeah, not going to happen; and if anything, my wife and kids (and kids-in-laws) are even more manual transmission bigoted than I am.

SamDoe1

There are a lot of cars where the manual is a total afterthought or a cost saving measure. The manual a Jeep Wrangler is AWFUL.

00TL-P3.2

I don't think the manual on the 80s-90s era MB was an afterthought, not like something like the Mitsu Evo X which I've heard has a horrible manual.
Never driven a 6MT GTI, but have heard the same there too.

I don't recall the manual JKU being terrible, but I didn't get a lot of seat time in them. It was about what I'd expect from a truck MT. The Explorer SportTrac was horrible, had a really awkward throw to the clutch, the trans wasn't bad otherwise.

SamDoe1

The JKU manual sucks, the JLU is better but still entirely unnecessary and worse than the auto version. There are some cars that are better with a manual and there are some that are decidedly worse.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

My wife's previous car, a 2012 GTI 6MT was a delight to drive and shift; that transmission was every bit as good as the one in her current Mazda3.

00TL-P3.2

Interesting, I'd read [mostly here] that compared to the DSG, the manual wasn't as enjoyable.
I've only ever driven the DSG 7 in the prior gen GTI & a few 6MT TDI Jetta wagons. The TDI 6MT was pretty good. If only diesel wasn't $$$ compared to 87 & 89 gas.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

We test drove the DSG and it was, ummm, meh, at best. Yes, if you were accelerating then those shifts were damn quick, but if you did something the tranny's brain wasn't expecting, say, squirting across three lands of traffic to pull into the middle "left turn lane", back off the throttle and then quickly get back onto it to make a slot in the traffic, the tranny fell flat on its face. Yeah, wrong gear, then another wrong gear, then yet another, and an embarrassing miss when trying to merge.

00TL-P3.2

I think that'll be true of most AT, outside of having it in a sport mode that'll hold RPMs for longer.
But yes, a MT wouldn't have that particular issue.

Hockeyman

That SC is awesome. 4 manual cars in my stable currently, and plan to add more. They don't make 'em like they used to. If you have the room, do it.

SamDoe1

The DSG from 2012 is a lot different than the more modern ones. I had a lot of seat time in a DSG Golf R and absolutely loved it. Never once regretted not getting the manual in that car. It was never not in the right gear and was always quick to make changes up or down all the time.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Still unconvinced, my feeling is the DSG lacks soul.

00TL-P3.2

YMMV
Found the DSG to be fun, just in a different way to a MT.

SamDoe1

Wasn't trying to convince you of anything, just saying that an 11 year old DSG isn't comparable to a more modern one.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

My argument is even the best automatic transmission in the world cannot see traffic, turns, hills, whatever..., yes, the DSG models have flappy-paddles so you can proactively instruct the automatic to change gears, but I would still argue the true manual transmission is still more than relevant when compared to a "modern" automatic.

thoiboi

+1 on s2000 highly recommend you get one while you still can!

SamDoe1

Huh?

There's a huge reason why all of the high performance cars on the market today are automatic and it's certainly not because it's slower or worse than a manual. A modern auto can outperform you and a third pedal in every situation you can dream of including traffic, hills, turns, etc. The only reason to have a manual today is because you want to and that's definitely ok. <- coming from a MT owner.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Last time I checked, racing was generally frowned upon by the constabulary nation wide; my argument is in real world driving, a manual transmission is superior to even the most advanced 27 gear automatics which may be in the minds of designers world wide.

Chief F1 Fan

Over dinner with Hurley Haywood during the Vintage Race weekend at the Glen a few years ago he said undoubtedly the PDK transmissions were the best in the world he had ever driven and if given a choice to race using that vs. a manual he said the pdk is better in every respect on the track or on the highway. If you have no desire to interact with your car then go for the PDK, otherwise relish in a perfect heel & toe and enjoy.

mrmako

A friend of mine (while living in Japan) had one of those SCs (called a Soarer there), but he pulled the motor and hand built a 1JZ/2JZ (the heads were 1 while the lower was a 2). He also built up the internals and added a monster turbo. I think he conservatively had 600 at the wheels. It was insane. Those Toyota motors are great to tinker / build out.

SamDoe1

No. It's really not. Sitting in traffic with a clutch pedal sucks. Driving down the highway doesn't let you even work the gears so it doesn't matter. Around town you can't go up/down more than a few gears here and there. For all of those purposes, I'd go auto.

Manual is a ton of fun and I love every experience driving mine but there are lots of (most) times where the auto with adaptive cruise and lane centering is amazing.

Manual is not objectively better but it's more fun some of the time. I still maintain that the only reason to have a manual today is because you want to, not because it's better, and that's totally ok.

00TL-P3.2

Houston traffic was one of the reasons I got rid of my Civic in college. Racing clutch & stop/go rush hour was awful.
Now that my commute is different, I'd be open to have a manual DD

Legend2TL

My main comment in all of this is there is ALOT of variation in performance of modern non-manuals so much so I don't equate a DCT (with traditional shift forks/synchro's or dog clutches for gear selection) with a traditional torque converter/automatic transmission using planetary gearsets and multiple and one-way cutch packs. There's a huge difference in operation and performance in time to shift, power management, .....

My brother has a 2015 BMW B6 with a ZF 8AT and a friend had a 2015 BMW M6 Grand Competition with the 7DCT, despite being the same basic car (BMW M6) the charactor of the two cars was dramatically difference when driven.

So a pure manual is not equal to a AT which is not equal to a DCT, they all have their advantages and disadvantages. For the track a DCT is best, for around town in stop/go a traditional AT is best, and for me fun on backroads a MT is best.