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Old 04-15-2018, 12:26 AM
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Let's go for a little ride from Fuji Speedway to...

...my driveway! Some of you already knew this was coming after I totaled my Camry back in February. I've been car shopping for about a month, and I had just narrowed my vehicle of choice to an IS-F after driving several contenders. I was under the presumption that my insurance company was buying time being that it seemed they were stretching things out, so I already started car shopping on the assumption I would get my check eventually lol... I literally lucked out that I found this car on Wednesday and my insurance case was closed on Friday. My main criteria were:

-Something reliable
-Something fun
-Something below 35K
-Something I'd want to drive for the next 5 years while I wait for the AWD M5 prices to drop from the gates of insanity, besides, I'd like to be at a more comfortable point in my life and career before I take that leap of faith into German car territory

With such a broad criteria came a lot of cars. I initially started wanting AWD, but that quickly dropped off my list once I realized I couldn't quite get that and get everything else I wanted... I test drove an IS-F at a local Acura dealer and in that driver seat I decided I wanted one. I didn't close a deal on that one because it had multiple issues going against it once I saw it in person. After that car, I would make it a habit of going onto autotrader and a few other websites and just run a search during my downtime on a daily basis. My mindset was that this would take a significant amount of time to find the right one, and I want to see what is popping up on the market to get some perspective. With only about 5100 made across 6 production years, I legitimately had in mind this would take some time to find a clean, good car! I got lucky on Wednesday, I saw a fresh listing pop up at a Lexus dealer less that 6 miles away from me, black on black 2010 IS-F with 63K miles, one owner and clean carfax with 0 pictures. Great start so far. I called the dealer, and as I suspected, it had just been traded in. The had just done their inspection and service on it, hadn't even had a chance to wash it after the trade in (was traded in for a brand new LC500). I told them over the phone to skip that wash, and to have it ready for me to test drive later that evening The only thing that caught my eye is three curbed wheels and a slight scuff mark on the rear quarter panel that blended with a quick polish (fingernail didn't catch on it), which isn't too big of a deal breaker for me. Everything else was expected wear and tear with 63K miles. Had the car independently checked out as well Things are official today, scheduled delivery is on Tuesday! Honestly, I'm just planning on doing the following to the car (aside from the 60K maintenance) and quite simply putting it to good use:

-Dash cam
-Ipod adapter
-Renew XM subscription
-Llumar FormulaOne Pinnacle ceramic window tint
-70% stratos film on the windshield
-Full paint correction and Cquartz professional ceramic coating
-Wheel repair

And that's it folks!!! I know, I know, most of us say exactly that when we buy a car, and then we get carried away... But for now, that's it! This is what she looked like pre-touch ups!











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Old 04-15-2018, 12:27 AM
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:52 AM
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Very nice! I like the color combo. Sounds like your due diligence paid off. Nothing like finding your "unicorn". Great choice, indeed. Even at eight years old that car will easily last another five. You'll be nursing that black paint for sure thought . I know I do. I still don't regret getting another black car one bit though. Congrats and enjoy! I'm sure more pics are forthcoming.
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by knight rider View Post
Very nice! I like the color combo. Sounds like your due diligence paid off. Nothing like finding your "unicorn". Great choice, indeed. Even at eight years old that car will easily last another five. You'll be nursing that black paint for sure thought . I know I do. I still don't regret getting another black car one bit though. Congrats and enjoy! I'm sure more pics are forthcoming.
I honestly got lucky!! As I'm sure you know, pictures can often be disappointing when looking at a listing. While in this case, I had no pictures, I'm glad I got to see it as the past owner took care of it when I saw it in person I saw a 2011 at a local Acura dealer (was told the owner traded in on an NSX). Also one owner, no accidents on carfax, 73K miles, also had Mark Levinson and Navigation. Comparable vehicle, but had the revised gauges, new headlight design and softer suspension that came with the 2011 model year. The pictures looked great, but the second I showed up to see the car, I noticed cracking of the tire tread on the two front tires and bad condensation in the driver headlight. After looking at the structure behind it and paint thickness measurements, I was confident the car hadn't been hit. It's apparently a fairly common issue on IS-F's to have headlight condensation.

However, what really bothered me about that car was they didn't tell me about the very obvious condensation when I talked to them over the phone. The tires I was willing to let slide, considering I'd have my choice of tires on purchase. I was also willing to let that slide if they worked that into the price of the car. Despite me pointing out the obvious flaws with the car, they weren't willing to replace the tires, address the headlight, or even budge a dollar on the price to reflect those problems. I just got a bad impression about the car and the dealership to be honest. All in all, I'm glad I opted out of that car. I ended up with a better car for less money than the Acura dealer wanted. I really wanted to the limited slip diff (2010 was the first year) and premium sound. I was willing to look past the softer suspension given that 2010 had a lot of issues from '08-'09 worked out. Headlights weren't really a concern since I know I can get them modified to my preference, and I hate the new gauge setup on the 2011.

True to the Lexus/Toyota brand, I'm gathering the same thing! Definitely agree. This car is fairly well built and reliable. I have full confidence I can get 5 years or more out of the car. My only critique of the car, and I have the same issue with my dad's LS430, the "premium" Mark Levinson sound system is total junk when compared with the Bose system on my RL. It's not bad, but by comparison, the sound in the RL feels so much richer, and the bass hits just right But Mark Levinson is a good selling point for me when I come to sell the car down the line.

Black paint is such a challenge to maintain, Lexus Obsidian is even worst The clear on Obsidian is soooo soft. Grrrrrr, it's going to be hard on my OCD

More pics to come!!!
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:10 AM
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funny how you said "skip the car wash" part, it literally how i founnd my TL-S.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:55 AM
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You gonna have so much fun with that beast.

Poor RL
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Old 04-15-2018, 03:31 PM
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Sweet! Congrats. Friend had one with some sort of exhaust. It sounded like a proper beast. haha
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:50 PM
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2 guys at work just bought these as well, same as yours! These things are reliable as hell, though. Congrats!
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by truonghthe View Post
funny how you said "skip the car wash" part, it literally how i founnd my TL-S.
Haha, yup!

Originally Posted by teh CL View Post
You gonna have so much fun with that beast.

Poor RL
C'mon, you know I'm already I'm already looking at winter tires. You know I'll be going sideways down the road in snowstorms with this thing

Originally Posted by JS + BRZ View Post
Sweet! Congrats. Friend had one with some sort of exhaust. It sounded like a proper beast. haha
Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
2 guys at work just bought these as well, same as yours! These things are reliable as hell, though. Congrats!
Definitely, very rewarding to throttle up!!
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:09 PM
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congrats! black on black is a great combo on a sedan. maybe tint the windows?
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:32 AM
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one thing I do miss the Lexus is the A/C come one super fast and once it does it ice cold. The leather seat is built like tank too.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:01 AM
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I've been driving an 07 IS350 the last few months and compared to my TL, I LOVE the cooling seats... Damn Acura, why you slackin'


Congrats on the new car
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:08 AM
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Looks great! Enjoy!
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:41 PM
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Looks great! Always loved the 1G ISF ... I hear they're pretty much bulletproof on reliability too.

Surprised I didn't see fix exhaust in your list! You know .. with something upgraded
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:01 PM
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May just be the angle, but looks like a set of spacers would help with the look too. The wheels look a bit too tucked, IMO.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:58 PM
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Thank you guys!! Window tint is already scheduled along with the ceramic coating!!

Definitely agree, I might decide to “fix” the exhaust, cause um.... things... and loud noises

So good news, bad news! Good news first: the deal is final as of today and I got the key today. The dealer was also kind enough to fix the curb rash free of charge! I wasn’t expecting that and they surprised me today when I dropped by.

Bad news: the truck that was supposed to deliver my wheels broke down. So my car is stuck on the lift with missing wheels and tires ����

The dealer was kind enough to put me in a cool loaner until they could get the wheels back on!!!




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Old 04-18-2018, 11:43 PM
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I thought they let you take a GSF or RCF lol.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by truonghthe View Post
I thought they let you take a GSF or RCF lol.
Lucky to get a RC350. Production for all 3 is going to be low this year.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:40 AM
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Good find, to echo what others said with an exhaust change these sound wild.

Lexus service is great! I never visit the dealership unless I have to do I was surprised at how well I was treated.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:21 AM
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Congratulations! The ISF is amazing

If you don't already have it, I can pull service history from the Lexus national database if you would like
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:35 AM
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I've always loved these cars and for the price you can grab one for... they're hard to beat. Enjoy!!
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:34 PM
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Awesome ride! Congrats! I've never been in one but I love the way they sound.

Wait... 6 miles from you? You aren't in MI are you. That's Lexus of Arlington! I live right in the area. I will keep my eye out for a black ISF now.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:42 PM
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Absolutely amazing cars. Most trouble free and fun car I have ever owned. You will have a blast with it.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by truonghthe View Post
I thought they let you take a GSF or RCF lol.
Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
Lucky to get a RC350. Production for all 3 is going to be low this year.
Originally Posted by Costco View Post
Good find, to echo what others said with an exhaust change these sound wild.

Lexus service is great! I never visit the dealership unless I have to do I was surprised at how well I was treated.
Thanks guys!! Not a full 24 hours into ownership yet, but it's been a great ride so far! Absolutely LOVE it! This car scares me with the stability at speeds, it's very easy to loose track of how fast you're going if you're not watching closely. I'm still getting used to going from the 186HP in the Camry to the 300HP in the RL to the now 416HP.

Planning an inaugural trip to Lake Geneva, WI tomorrow with more pictures to come!!

Originally Posted by juniorbean View Post
I've always loved these cars and for the price you can grab one for... they're hard to beat. Enjoy!!
Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey View Post
Absolutely amazing cars. Most trouble free and fun car I have ever owned. You will have a blast with it.
Originally Posted by CLtotheTL32 View Post
Congratulations! The ISF is amazing

If you don't already have it, I can pull service history from the Lexus national database if you would like
I might just shoot you a PM in the near future about that!!! Thank you for the offer on that!!!

Originally Posted by RPhilMan1 View Post
Awesome ride! Congrats! I've never been in one but I love the way they sound.

Wait... 6 miles from you? You aren't in MI are you. That's Lexus of Arlington! I live right in the area. I will keep my eye out for a black ISF now.
Haha yes! You are correct! Lexus of Arlington!!! All my stuff is based out of Michigan Drop by cars and coffee at Liquid Fusion in Lincolnshire this Sunday (4/22)!! I'll make an appearance with the car!! Wouldn't mind taking you out for a spin either!

On that note, already have 1 meet down so far as well!
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:26 AM
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Picture update time now that I've had the car for more than 24 hours Within the first 24 hours of ownership, I took the car to a car event in Chicago already! Here is some pictures from the night I took delivery First two pics are from the first event I took her to.










I took the car to Lake Geneva, WI and took back roads all the way there for the driving experience with the new car. Some comments about the drive so far. It's VERY, VERY easy to loose track of how fast you're going if you don't look at the speedo often enough. It's also incredible stable at speeds (DON'T SPEED PEOPLE!!) I love the power the engine delivers, VERY smooth power delivery. The noise the engine makes when you go over 4K rpm is simply beautiful! Going from SH-AWD to a higher HP RWD vehicle is very interesting. SH-AWD can correct for a lot of driver error by cutting power. It's a lot more involved with this car, you actually have to drive

When compared to the RL, it's definitely not as good of a cruiser as the RL, but that's to be expected. I'm shocked at the fuel economy this car gets. In the 130 mile drive, I averaged almost 18MPG, and I really wasn't making an effort. This will shock most of you, but that's in line with my RL, if not better actually! Ill attribute a lot of it to the 8 speed in this thing. Honestly, all in all, I thought I would have an issue with the trans in this thing but it's fairly well calibrated and shift speeds are great! For build quality and materials, save a few trim pieces that look or feel weird, it appears to have typical Lexus build quality. I don't know if it's because I'm not used to it yet, but the infotainment system feels complicated to use. I feel like it's too hard to do something as simple as switching audio sources. Climate control feels about on par with my RL, but navigation and radio feels like it could have been easier.

Also went to Menards and bought some LED bulbs for the interior!! I had a festoon bulb leftover that I used for the trunk! I did the reverse lights and all the interior bulbs. Only think I still have to do are the front parking bulbs. I took the last two packs Menards had, and would need another two.








Some pics from my trip to Lake Geneva!! I love the air channels in the front bumper to cool the brakes! Interesting that everything in these bumpers is functional and has a purpose!












Off to cars and coffee!! I'll have some pictures from there as well!

Last edited by projektvertx; 04-22-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:29 AM
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Awesome! It seems like you're really enjoying it I've been looking at ISFs recently and it's crazy how well they've held their value.

Those early infotainment systems are a pain. Thankfully they did a refresh in 2013 which streamlined everything. Just be glad that you have a touchscreen; people struggle with the new Remote Touch Interface where you have to control everything with a mouse
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:17 PM
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Glad you are enjoying it! I dig the quad exhaust tips! You are definitely right about the 19mpg on the RL lol
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:19 AM
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Nice, congrats man! Car looks sweet.

Also, I had no idea Menards sold LED bulbs for cars...are they cheap there?
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:25 AM
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Man you must be having a lot of fun with that low mileage. I averaged low 20s around town and as much as 30mpg on highway trips. Probably one of the most fuel efficient V8s that is not a hybrid.

Also you can get clear replacements for the red light covers on the doors. Really cleans up the interior.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by projektvertx View Post
Haha yes! You are correct! Lexus of Arlington!!! All my stuff is based out of Michigan Drop by cars and coffee at Liquid Fusion in Lincolnshire this Sunday (4/22)!! I'll make an appearance with the car!! Wouldn't mind taking you out for a spin either!

On that note, already have 1 meet down so far as well!
Haha sweet. The Liquid Fusion at 3375 Milwaukee Ave? What time does it start? I have a birthday party to go to on Saturday night but I can try to come out on Sunday. Would be nice.
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RPhilMan1 View Post
Haha sweet. The Liquid Fusion at 3375 Milwaukee Ave? What time does it start? I have a birthday party to go to on Saturday night but I can try to come out on Sunday. Would be nice.
Yessir!! They are usually on Sundays at 9AM, but like their facebook page!! There is always some nice exotics that show up. I don't mean just the one Ferrari that shows up for everyone to drool over, I can usually count ~20 that show up every time.

https://www.facebook.com/NorthSuburbsCarsAndCoffee/

Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey View Post
Man you must be having a lot of fun with that low mileage. I averaged low 20s around town and as much as 30mpg on highway trips. Probably one of the most fuel efficient V8s that is not a hybrid.

Also you can get clear replacements for the red light covers on the doors. Really cleans up the interior.
I mean, empty country roads, new car... You know how that goes I figured I wanted to do a "worst case scenario" test. Honestly, I'm shocked at how good the car is on fuel so far. The 8 speed is what does wonders as that number has only gone up!!!

I actually looked into the clear lenses. Apparently Lexus makes some drop in lenses with part # 8123047010.

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
Nice, congrats man! Car looks sweet.

Also, I had no idea Menards sold LED bulbs for cars...are they cheap there?
Yup, Menard's has automotive LED bulbs!! I like them because while they aren't the cheapest out there, they beat the retrofit source pricing and I'm not worried about them being fake Phillips as with some Ebay or Amazon vendors

Originally Posted by HDNBenjamin View Post
Glad you are enjoying it! I dig the quad exhaust tips! You are definitely right about the 19mpg on the RL lol
Thank you thank you!!

Photo update!! Almost ready for ceramic coating and window tint.If anyone is ever in Chicago in the summer, definitely add the Bahai House as a place to visit!! The view of the lake is great!

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Old 04-26-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by projektvertx View Post
I mean, empty country roads, new car... You know how that goes I figured I wanted to do a "worst case scenario" test. Honestly, I'm shocked at how good the car is on fuel so far. The 8 speed is what does wonders as that number has only gone up!!!

I actually looked into the clear lenses. Apparently Lexus makes some drop in lenses with part # 8123047010.

Yeah the 8spd helps you get insane fuel economy for a big displacement NA V8 and when you put it in sport mode those .1 second shifts are just crazy.

Yup those are the ones I went with.
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey View Post
Yeah the 8spd helps you get insane fuel economy for a big displacement NA V8 and when you put it in sport mode those .1 second shifts are just crazy.

Yup those are the ones I went with.
It's so quick you can't even feel the shift, it's insane! Typical Lexus smooth too. The idea that it's a "lifetime fill" transmission fluid doesn't sit right with me. I think I'll inevitably drain and fill the fluid at some point too...

I've been looking into snow tires and I have a few options. I want to see what people's thoughts are. Especially since we have some prior owners here The factory tire size is:

225/40-19 in the front and 255/35-19 in the rear.

I can go with this size, or go with a square winter setup and do 225/40-19 all around. The reality is, I just don't feel comfortable rolling around with a 35 and 40 sidewall on a 19" wheel in the winter. I feel like that's a recipe for bent wheels and blown tires...

The other option is to go down to 18's and stick with the following sizes:

225/45-18 square setup or 225/45-18 Front and 255/40-18 rear

What are everyone's thoughts? I'm fairly stupid when it comes to this stuff so any advice would be appreciated!!

Also, another stupid question. I'm looking at Lexus GS spider wheel. The fronts are 18X8 so that's no issue for tire fitment since OE front is 19X8. My question is for the rear. It's 18X8.5 and the wheels do fit. Factory size is 19X9. My question is then this: will 255/40-18's work on an 8.5" wide wheel?

Last edited by projektvertx; 04-27-2018 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:42 AM
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Looking at your ISF make me itchy for a RCF. I drove both 8spd version one on the ISF and the other on the LS460. surprisingly the LS460 and ISF able get 30 MPG on the freeway.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by projektvertx View Post


It's so quick you can't even feel the shift, it's insane! Typical Lexus smooth too. The idea that it's a "lifetime fill" transmission fluid doesn't sit right with me. I think I'll inevitably drain and fill the fluid at some point too...

I've been looking into snow tires and I have a few options. I want to see what people's thoughts are. Especially since we have some prior owners here The factory tire size is:

225/40-19 in the front and 255/35-19 in the rear.

I can go with this size, or go with a square winter setup and do 225/40-19 all around. The reality is, I just don't feel comfortable rolling around with a 35 and 40 sidewall on a 19" wheel in the winter. I feel like that's a recipe for bent wheels and blown tires...

The other option is to go down to 18's and stick with the following sizes:

225/45-18 square setup or 225/45-18 Front and 255/40-18 rear

What are everyone's thoughts? I'm fairly stupid when it comes to this stuff so any advice would be appreciated!!

Also, another stupid question. I'm looking at Lexus GS spider wheel. The fronts are 18X8 so that's no issue for tire fitment since OE front is 19X8. My question is for the rear. It's 18X8.5 and the wheels do fit. Factory size is 19X9. My question is then this: will 255/40-18's work on an 8.5" wide wheel?
For snow tires, you should ideally go with the narrow width tires to more effectively cut through the snow. With the car you have...I'm not sure that's a great idea to go with narrow tires in the back and should probably stick with the staggered setup unless you have the will power to lay off the throttle for 6 months of the year. Also, when shopping for snow tires there are many varieties. For your purposes, I wouldn't recommend the Blizzaks (they are more for deeper snow) and I'd go with the Michelin XIce(whatever number they're on now) since they are more for cold open roads and moderate snow depth which is good since you'll likely not try (or be able because ground clearance) to go through deep shit with that car. The XIce tires are more of a "performance" snow tire so I'd recommend those.

For the wheels, you can put 255 width tires on an 8.5" wheel but that's pushing it. I definitely wouldn't go any wider with those wheels and it'll certainly be the opposite of #stancenation #stretch.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:22 AM
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I agree with Sam on everything except the "Xice are more of performance winter tire". I don't believe that is true- I've rocked Xice tires on a number of cars over the years (all three versions of them)- there were times I wanted to buy them, like when I had my 2012 Sonata Turbo- and couldn't. Why? Costco claimed the Sonata needed a higher performance winter tire and the Xice weren't them. Actually, they told me that twice, though I'm struggling to remember what other car I wanted to buy them for. I think for the sonata they ended up pushing me to the Michelin Primacy Alpins, or something rather. They worked just as well as the Xice tires though.

Actually, now that I think of it, my 06 TL 6MT is riding on Xice tires. I'm surprised they put them on one car, but not the other. Either way... you can ask for the Xice- if they say no, ask for the equivalent "sportier" version. I think it comes down to the speed rating of the tires, and that's about it.

I've rocked 534187123 sets of Xice tires... I'll be trying Blizzaks next time. But.. we do tend to get a ton of snow here.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
I agree with Sam on everything except the "Xice are more of performance winter tire". I don't believe that is true- I've rocked Xice tires on a number of cars over the years (all three versions of them)- there were times I wanted to buy them, like when I had my 2012 Sonata Turbo- and couldn't. Why? Costco claimed the Sonata needed a higher performance winter tire and the Xice weren't them. Actually, they told me that twice, though I'm struggling to remember what other car I wanted to buy them for. I think for the sonata they ended up pushing me to the Michelin Primacy Alpins, or something rather. They worked just as well as the Xice tires though.

Actually, now that I think of it, my 06 TL 6MT is riding on Xice tires. I'm surprised they put them on one car, but not the other. Either way... you can ask for the Xice- if they say no, ask for the equivalent "sportier" version. I think it comes down to the speed rating of the tires, and that's about it.

I've rocked 534187123 sets of Xice tires... I'll be trying Blizzaks next time. But.. we do tend to get a ton of snow here.
Looks like they've reclassified them. When I bought my XIce2 tires, they were classified as "performance winter tire" but now the XIce XI3 is now just "studless winter tire". Looks like the Pirelli Sottozero is the one to get for performance winter tire. Doesn't look like the Pilot Alpin tires are available in the sizes for the IS-F.

I had the XIce tires on my AWD BMW for a number of years and the wife has Blizzaks on her Accord. There is a notable difference between them when it comes to deeper snow. I'll definitely be sticking with Blizzaks because we also get a crap ton of snow. They're also not bad for a performance car but if you're buying new tires anyway, might as well get the right ones.

Also, on what planet does a Sonata need a performance tire...?
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:46 PM
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I love my Michelin Pilot Alpin tires. My first set was the PA3 and I went through five winters before I had to replace them prior to this winter, and I went with the PA4s which are even better. Amazing tires, especially for our Chicago winters.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:22 PM
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Alright, I'm glad others have expressed the same concern about having 416HP thru a 225 tire The funny part is tirerack actually recommends that setup, which is quite frankly a little terrifying...

I've had really good experience with the X-Ices in the past as that's all I've had on my vehicles. My dad went from Blizzaks to PA3 Alpines and those things are great!! Tire rack is only showing Bridgestone, Pirelli and Yokohama Ice Guards as staggered options. I usually make my tire purchases thru Discount Tire during their heavy sales and unfortunately they weren't even able to price out Michelin winter tires since everything got pulled off of their site :/ I'm pretty much between X-Ices and PA4s if they are available...

On another note, some extended driving feedback: Fuel economy is notably improved since I've laid of the throttle a little bit!! DEFINITELY outclasses the RL in the fuel economy department LOL. Another note, the brakes generate brake dust like NO OTHER!! I've never had to wash wheels so frequently... I'm honestly considering ceramic coating the wheels to make cleaning easier...
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:18 AM
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I went with same as stock tire sizes for my winters. I know they say same front and back is best but I am with you. I couldn't go 225 on the rear for that much power. That being said I had no issues and the ISF with snow tires was better than my CL with all seasons. I know of course it should be but it was also my first RWD car in the snow. I had Blizzaks and took the car skiing in West Virginia. Drove through a snow storm up the mountain passing SUVs all the time because they were having traction issues. I bought a seperate set of Linea Corsea 818 wheels to put my snow tires on. The rears were stretched since they were 10in wide rears and the fronts were 8.5.

I did go the same all around though for my V wagon and question whether it was the right choice. 255 is awful narro for 650hp. Haven't gotten a change to test them yet though.
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