View Poll Results: 05' GTO vs 05' STI
6.0 GTO
33
41.77%
2.5t STI
48
60.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll
Which is King of 33k? GTO vs STI
05-28-2005, 06:12 PM
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Which is King of 33k? GTO vs STI
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...icleId=105773#
Click link for edmunds GTO vs STI video.
Click link for edmunds GTO vs STI video.
Date posted: 05-26-2005
Browse through the 700-plus cars available on Gran Turismo 4, and you'll find only one Gran Turismo Omologato. That's GTO if you're under 30. Scroll down to GT4's Subaru WRX section, however, and you'll find 12 versions of the STi. That's Subaru Technica International if you're over 40.
Sony knows its audience, but come on, guys, let's give credit where credit is due. In 1964, the Pontiac GTO was the first production car to demonstrate that adding massive horsepower to a smaller, otherwise innocuous car can be a recipe for greatness.
Although drastically different in their design and execution, the 2005 Pontiac GTO and the 2005 Subaru WRX STi both employ this time-tested formula. Think about it. Subaru took its lowly Impreza, added a turbocharged engine, a stiffer suspension and a little extra bodywork and, suddenly, every male under the age of 25 is trading in his girlfriend for one. Sounds like a modern-day GTO to us.
The new GTO takes a more traditional route. Like its legendary ancestors, it's a coupe with classic muscle car credentials like a big V8, rear-wheel drive and a long hood/short deck design. Although it's built in Australia, it's so American it makes Tommy Franks look like a Communist.
Sure, conventional wisdom says if you like one, you wouldn't even consider the other, but we think otherwise. Our test cars stickered eight dollars apart and are, apart from Ford's bargain-priced Mustang GT, the most powerful rides on the market in their price range. If you want to go as fast as possible without taking out a second mortgage, one of these cars just might be the ticket. Deciding which one is a matter of how you like your speed delivered.
Let the showdown begin.
Attractive Opposites
With four doors, standard all-wheel drive and peaky turbocharged power, the WRX STi turns the muscle car moniker on its head. It may have just a 2.5-liter, four-cylinder engine, but with 300 horsepower, 300 pound-feet of torque and a six-speed manual transmission it's got specs that impress.
For 2005, Subaru has fortified the STi with a new helical limited-slip differential up front, a thicker sway bar in back and lightweight aluminum rear lateral links. The steering rack also received a stiffer mount, a tighter ratio and an auxiliary fluid cooler. The interior got a makeover, too, with improved climate controls and reskinned seats. Our test car also featured a short-throw shifter, titanium shift knob and auxiliary boost gauge.
The GTO also received upgrades for 2005, including 50 more horsepower from a new 400-hp, 6.0-liter LS2 V8, bigger brakes, dual exhaust and a much needed set of hood scoops. The only option is a six-speed manual transmission and thankfully our test car had it.
They're both comfortable enough to drive every day, but unless you drive the tires off them you won't fully appreciate their true capabilities. With that in mind we ripped them through our favorite back roads and pushed them to their limits at the test track. With their garish spoilers and gaping hood scoops, the reactions of onlookers, passengers and anyone else who heard us coming were also noted for good measure.
Conclusion
On paper, the GTO looked tough to beat. A 400-hp small-block V8, six-speed manual, rear-wheel drive — what more do you need? But the more we drove these cars on the edge, the more we realized that the STi was the real deal. It held its own on the drag strip and flat-out smoked the GTO through the slalom. Plus its backseats come with doors. On the street, more than one editor noted that when it comes to raw, unfiltered feel, it's the Subaru that delivers over the more refined GTO. Add in the STi's higher-quality interior and usable trunk and it's the Subaru that gets our $33K.
Drive two blocks in the 2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi and you'll realize why it rules both the real and digital worlds. It's as raw a performance car as you're going to find in a showroom. It tosses subtlety out the window in favor of maximum performance at all costs. It's as unrefined as it is fast, and that's the appeal.
Getting Acquainted
Open the pillarless door and it feels so small and light you would think you're stepping into a Miata. The high-backed bucket seats aren't big on comfort, but new "higher friction" cloth trim for '05 helps make up for the minimal side bolstering. Compared to the GTO, the STi's seats feel like they were pulled from a Nextel Cup car.
The seating position isn't perfect, but the sightlines are good and the three-spoke Momo steering wheel feels right. The center stack was refreshed for 2005, adding automatic climate control and a premium 140-watt stereo with a six-disc CD changer. It looks better, works well and makes the Subaru look luxurious compared to the GTO's rubber-covered switchgear.
Firing up the STi doesn't provide much aural inspiration, but the gauge needles swing to their peaks before settling in, so there's at least some visual stimulation at start-up. The STi's 2.5-liter engine generates a deeper tone than the standard WRX's 2.0-liter four-cylinder, but it's still a raspy blat-blat-blat that begs for an aftermarket exhaust.
Slightly More Information Than You Needed to Know
Grab first gear, let out the surprisingly light clutch and the STi leaps to life like it's been waiting all day to run. The initial feeling is one of information overload as the quick steering, unforgiving suspension and barely legal street tires convey the ripples of the pavement to your brain like an asphalt IV. Turning down the drip requires smooth steering inputs and careful attention to shift timing and throttle application.
Once you're acclimated to the Subaru's hyperactive personality, its unique appeal begins to emerge. Between the minimal noise insulation, whining turbo and constant gear gnashing, the STi is the closest you can get to a street-legal racecar.
Ripping through the gates, the short-throw shifter is rock solid despite an annoying tendency to float while in gear. You've got to keep the engine revving to avoid nasty low-end lag, but the six closely spaced gears make it easy. The clutch can withstand full throttle dumps without a whimper and doing so will drop-kick you from zero to 60 in just 5.8 seconds.
If It's Too Hard, You're Too Old
As tight as last year's STi was right out of the gate, Subaru spec'd the 2005 model with half-inch-wider rear wheels, reduced strut travel, a reprogrammed center differential controller and a three-piece rear crossmember mount. The overall rear track is up four-tenths of an inch but the tires are still 225/45-17s at each corner.
The nearly slick Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires give tons of stick, but the ride quality is positively punishing. Body roll is not part of this car's vocabulary, although understeer emerges when you're pushing hard. Nosediving or not, the STi maintained an impressive 66.7 mph speed through the slalom — nearly 2 miles per hour faster than the last Corvette we tested.
The only advanced electronic safety system is the four-channel ABS that watches over the four-piston Brembo brakes. The feel through the pedal isn't nearly as inspiring as the 115-foot 60-to-0 stop we measured, but at least it's well positioned for heel-and-toe shifting.
One-Track Mind
The STi is an all-or-nothing proposition. Either you like the way it looks, feels and sounds, or you shake your head in disgust at its crudeness. Not everyone agreed on its appeal, but few could argue with its capabilities. It's a modern-day GTO and then some.
Compared to the Subaru, the Pontiac GTO is a little soft. From the seats to the suspension to the shifter, everything in the Pontiac feels like it has another layer of insulation. It makes for a livable daily driver, but dilutes some of its muscle car character. Undeniably quick in a straight line, the GTO can't match the STi when it comes to delivering a complete package of performance, especially one that makes shelling out 33 big ones seem worth it.
Power to Spare
We wouldn't have said it a year ago, but if a 2005 Pontiac GTO pulls up next to you at a local stoplight we suggest paying it respect. The massive amount of wheel hop that dogged last year's model is gone, replaced by a GTO that will let you light up its BFGoodrichs for as long as you care to hold the throttle down.
Its new 6.0-liter V8 is a torque monster that can make your sister look like John Force. Regardless of what gear you're in, the slightest nudge of the accelerator adds 20 mph. Compared to the frantic power delivery of the Subaru, the Pontiac's V8 feels like a Lexus. Wind it up to the 6,500-rpm redline and the dual exhaust belts out a wail that WRX owners could only dream about.
The long throws of the six-speed shifter take some of the fun out of banging through the gears, but it will still grab rubber in second and third. The action is smooth, but compared to the Subaru's industrial-strength unit the Pontiac's stick feels delicate. A light clutch makes perfect throttle/shift coordination easier than in the more demanding STi, an element that adds to the GTO's everyday drivability.
As easy as it is to launch, our '05 car didn't run any quicker than the 350-horse version we tested a year ago. At 14 seconds flat, it bested the Subaru by a tenth, but under better conditions the GTO could probably shave another half second.
Handling in Short Supply
Big tires, rear-wheel drive and a fully independent suspension can only do so much when they're trying to herd in 3,725 pounds of sheet metal. At moderate speeds the big Goat is stable enough, but push harder and its limitations aren't hard to find.
Driven back-to-back with the Subaru, the GTO feels massive, with slow turn-in and excessive body roll. With no stability control to rein you in, the GTO will happily progress to easily controllable oversteer which can be fun provided you have the room to play. Wide pedal spacing makes heel-and-toe downshifting nearly impossible, and the brakes never feel strong enough despite a switch to larger rotors, calipers and pads for 2005.
Slalom testing confirmed the GTO's clumsiness as it rumbled through the cones at a leisurely 60 mph. The STi knifed through it at 66.7 mph, a Toyota Camry Solara can do it at 60.9 mph.
More Comfort Than You Expect
Big heavy doors, a low roof and a high seating position make for an awkward entry into the GTO, but once situated, it's a spacious and comfortable cabin. We're guessing that the seats weren't specified until the suspension was finished as the buckets provide only enough support for moderate cornering.
We wish more GM interiors looked as sharp as the GTO's. A clean gauge cluster, tactful brightwork and good use of soft-touch materials give the cabin a more upscale look than most Pontiac designs. Ditch the chintzy climate controls and cheap plastics on the bottom of the dashboard and the only thing left to complain about would be the impossibly small trunk.
A Softer Side of Performance
Big horsepower numbers might have been enough for the original GTO, but we expected more from the 2005 version. Dial out the body roll, install a better shifter and swap in a beefier set of tires and this Pontiac could hold its own. As it is now, it's a great motor in need of a better supporting cast.
Browse through the 700-plus cars available on Gran Turismo 4, and you'll find only one Gran Turismo Omologato. That's GTO if you're under 30. Scroll down to GT4's Subaru WRX section, however, and you'll find 12 versions of the STi. That's Subaru Technica International if you're over 40.
Sony knows its audience, but come on, guys, let's give credit where credit is due. In 1964, the Pontiac GTO was the first production car to demonstrate that adding massive horsepower to a smaller, otherwise innocuous car can be a recipe for greatness.
Although drastically different in their design and execution, the 2005 Pontiac GTO and the 2005 Subaru WRX STi both employ this time-tested formula. Think about it. Subaru took its lowly Impreza, added a turbocharged engine, a stiffer suspension and a little extra bodywork and, suddenly, every male under the age of 25 is trading in his girlfriend for one. Sounds like a modern-day GTO to us.
The new GTO takes a more traditional route. Like its legendary ancestors, it's a coupe with classic muscle car credentials like a big V8, rear-wheel drive and a long hood/short deck design. Although it's built in Australia, it's so American it makes Tommy Franks look like a Communist.
Sure, conventional wisdom says if you like one, you wouldn't even consider the other, but we think otherwise. Our test cars stickered eight dollars apart and are, apart from Ford's bargain-priced Mustang GT, the most powerful rides on the market in their price range. If you want to go as fast as possible without taking out a second mortgage, one of these cars just might be the ticket. Deciding which one is a matter of how you like your speed delivered.
Let the showdown begin.
Attractive Opposites
With four doors, standard all-wheel drive and peaky turbocharged power, the WRX STi turns the muscle car moniker on its head. It may have just a 2.5-liter, four-cylinder engine, but with 300 horsepower, 300 pound-feet of torque and a six-speed manual transmission it's got specs that impress.
For 2005, Subaru has fortified the STi with a new helical limited-slip differential up front, a thicker sway bar in back and lightweight aluminum rear lateral links. The steering rack also received a stiffer mount, a tighter ratio and an auxiliary fluid cooler. The interior got a makeover, too, with improved climate controls and reskinned seats. Our test car also featured a short-throw shifter, titanium shift knob and auxiliary boost gauge.
The GTO also received upgrades for 2005, including 50 more horsepower from a new 400-hp, 6.0-liter LS2 V8, bigger brakes, dual exhaust and a much needed set of hood scoops. The only option is a six-speed manual transmission and thankfully our test car had it.
They're both comfortable enough to drive every day, but unless you drive the tires off them you won't fully appreciate their true capabilities. With that in mind we ripped them through our favorite back roads and pushed them to their limits at the test track. With their garish spoilers and gaping hood scoops, the reactions of onlookers, passengers and anyone else who heard us coming were also noted for good measure.
Conclusion
On paper, the GTO looked tough to beat. A 400-hp small-block V8, six-speed manual, rear-wheel drive — what more do you need? But the more we drove these cars on the edge, the more we realized that the STi was the real deal. It held its own on the drag strip and flat-out smoked the GTO through the slalom. Plus its backseats come with doors. On the street, more than one editor noted that when it comes to raw, unfiltered feel, it's the Subaru that delivers over the more refined GTO. Add in the STi's higher-quality interior and usable trunk and it's the Subaru that gets our $33K.
Drive two blocks in the 2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi and you'll realize why it rules both the real and digital worlds. It's as raw a performance car as you're going to find in a showroom. It tosses subtlety out the window in favor of maximum performance at all costs. It's as unrefined as it is fast, and that's the appeal.
Getting Acquainted
Open the pillarless door and it feels so small and light you would think you're stepping into a Miata. The high-backed bucket seats aren't big on comfort, but new "higher friction" cloth trim for '05 helps make up for the minimal side bolstering. Compared to the GTO, the STi's seats feel like they were pulled from a Nextel Cup car.
The seating position isn't perfect, but the sightlines are good and the three-spoke Momo steering wheel feels right. The center stack was refreshed for 2005, adding automatic climate control and a premium 140-watt stereo with a six-disc CD changer. It looks better, works well and makes the Subaru look luxurious compared to the GTO's rubber-covered switchgear.
Firing up the STi doesn't provide much aural inspiration, but the gauge needles swing to their peaks before settling in, so there's at least some visual stimulation at start-up. The STi's 2.5-liter engine generates a deeper tone than the standard WRX's 2.0-liter four-cylinder, but it's still a raspy blat-blat-blat that begs for an aftermarket exhaust.
Slightly More Information Than You Needed to Know
Grab first gear, let out the surprisingly light clutch and the STi leaps to life like it's been waiting all day to run. The initial feeling is one of information overload as the quick steering, unforgiving suspension and barely legal street tires convey the ripples of the pavement to your brain like an asphalt IV. Turning down the drip requires smooth steering inputs and careful attention to shift timing and throttle application.
Once you're acclimated to the Subaru's hyperactive personality, its unique appeal begins to emerge. Between the minimal noise insulation, whining turbo and constant gear gnashing, the STi is the closest you can get to a street-legal racecar.
Ripping through the gates, the short-throw shifter is rock solid despite an annoying tendency to float while in gear. You've got to keep the engine revving to avoid nasty low-end lag, but the six closely spaced gears make it easy. The clutch can withstand full throttle dumps without a whimper and doing so will drop-kick you from zero to 60 in just 5.8 seconds.
If It's Too Hard, You're Too Old
As tight as last year's STi was right out of the gate, Subaru spec'd the 2005 model with half-inch-wider rear wheels, reduced strut travel, a reprogrammed center differential controller and a three-piece rear crossmember mount. The overall rear track is up four-tenths of an inch but the tires are still 225/45-17s at each corner.
The nearly slick Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires give tons of stick, but the ride quality is positively punishing. Body roll is not part of this car's vocabulary, although understeer emerges when you're pushing hard. Nosediving or not, the STi maintained an impressive 66.7 mph speed through the slalom — nearly 2 miles per hour faster than the last Corvette we tested.
The only advanced electronic safety system is the four-channel ABS that watches over the four-piston Brembo brakes. The feel through the pedal isn't nearly as inspiring as the 115-foot 60-to-0 stop we measured, but at least it's well positioned for heel-and-toe shifting.
One-Track Mind
The STi is an all-or-nothing proposition. Either you like the way it looks, feels and sounds, or you shake your head in disgust at its crudeness. Not everyone agreed on its appeal, but few could argue with its capabilities. It's a modern-day GTO and then some.
Compared to the Subaru, the Pontiac GTO is a little soft. From the seats to the suspension to the shifter, everything in the Pontiac feels like it has another layer of insulation. It makes for a livable daily driver, but dilutes some of its muscle car character. Undeniably quick in a straight line, the GTO can't match the STi when it comes to delivering a complete package of performance, especially one that makes shelling out 33 big ones seem worth it.
Power to Spare
We wouldn't have said it a year ago, but if a 2005 Pontiac GTO pulls up next to you at a local stoplight we suggest paying it respect. The massive amount of wheel hop that dogged last year's model is gone, replaced by a GTO that will let you light up its BFGoodrichs for as long as you care to hold the throttle down.
Its new 6.0-liter V8 is a torque monster that can make your sister look like John Force. Regardless of what gear you're in, the slightest nudge of the accelerator adds 20 mph. Compared to the frantic power delivery of the Subaru, the Pontiac's V8 feels like a Lexus. Wind it up to the 6,500-rpm redline and the dual exhaust belts out a wail that WRX owners could only dream about.
The long throws of the six-speed shifter take some of the fun out of banging through the gears, but it will still grab rubber in second and third. The action is smooth, but compared to the Subaru's industrial-strength unit the Pontiac's stick feels delicate. A light clutch makes perfect throttle/shift coordination easier than in the more demanding STi, an element that adds to the GTO's everyday drivability.
As easy as it is to launch, our '05 car didn't run any quicker than the 350-horse version we tested a year ago. At 14 seconds flat, it bested the Subaru by a tenth, but under better conditions the GTO could probably shave another half second.
Handling in Short Supply
Big tires, rear-wheel drive and a fully independent suspension can only do so much when they're trying to herd in 3,725 pounds of sheet metal. At moderate speeds the big Goat is stable enough, but push harder and its limitations aren't hard to find.
Driven back-to-back with the Subaru, the GTO feels massive, with slow turn-in and excessive body roll. With no stability control to rein you in, the GTO will happily progress to easily controllable oversteer which can be fun provided you have the room to play. Wide pedal spacing makes heel-and-toe downshifting nearly impossible, and the brakes never feel strong enough despite a switch to larger rotors, calipers and pads for 2005.
Slalom testing confirmed the GTO's clumsiness as it rumbled through the cones at a leisurely 60 mph. The STi knifed through it at 66.7 mph, a Toyota Camry Solara can do it at 60.9 mph.
More Comfort Than You Expect
Big heavy doors, a low roof and a high seating position make for an awkward entry into the GTO, but once situated, it's a spacious and comfortable cabin. We're guessing that the seats weren't specified until the suspension was finished as the buckets provide only enough support for moderate cornering.
We wish more GM interiors looked as sharp as the GTO's. A clean gauge cluster, tactful brightwork and good use of soft-touch materials give the cabin a more upscale look than most Pontiac designs. Ditch the chintzy climate controls and cheap plastics on the bottom of the dashboard and the only thing left to complain about would be the impossibly small trunk.
A Softer Side of Performance
Big horsepower numbers might have been enough for the original GTO, but we expected more from the 2005 version. Dial out the body roll, install a better shifter and swap in a beefier set of tires and this Pontiac could hold its own. As it is now, it's a great motor in need of a better supporting cast.
Code:
Exterior Dimensions & Capacities Pontiac GTO Subaru WRX STi Length, in. 189.8 173.8 Width, in. 72.5 68.5 Height, in. 54.9 56.3 Wheelbase, in. 109.8 100.0 Curb Weight, lbs. 3725.0 3298.0 Turning Circle, ft. 36.1 35.4 Interior Dimensions Pontiac GTO Subaru WRX STi Front headroom, in. 37.3 38.6 Front legroom, in. 42.2 42.9 Front shoulder room, in. 59.7 52.9 Rear headroom, in. 37.3 36.7 Rear legroom, in. 37.1 33.0 Rear shoulder room, in. 51.7 52.9 Engine & Transmission Specifications Engine & Transmission Pontiac GTO Subaru WRX STi Engine Type 16-valve OHV V8 turbocharged flat four Displacement, liters 6 2.5 Horsepower (SAE) @ rpm 400 @ 5,200 300 Max. Torque, lb-ft @ rpm 400 @ 4,000 300 Transmission 6-speed manual 6-speed manual Observed Fuel Economy City/Hwy, mpg N/A N/A EPA Fuel Economy City/Hwy, mpg 17/25 18/24 Performance Pontiac GTO Subaru WRX STi Zero-to-60-mph acceleration, sec. 5.7 5.8 Quarter-mile acceleration (sec@mph) 14.0 14.1 Quarter-mile speed, mph 102.2 97.2 60-to-0-mph braking, feet 129.9 115.4 600-ft slalom, mph 60.0 66.7
Last edited by heyitsme; 05-28-2005 at 06:15 PM.
05-28-2005, 07:40 PM
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I dunno, just cruising back and forth to work or even long trips on the highway, the GTO would be the all out winnar. I haven't seen too many turns other than offramps in realworld driving on the East Coast, and I wouldn't race through em' if there were. Engine sound is also on the list, the better the better. Torque, sure, its was installed at the factory. GTO.
05-28-2005, 07:56 PM
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I'm a much bigger fan of the GTO.. I'm actually considering it to replace my Z when the lease is up. 2 of my friends have STi's and I'm just not very impressed. AWD is nice, but I find it unappealing to the eyes (not that the GTO is a real looker, but it at least is decently bland) and just not that impressive overall.
I have another friend with an Evo which I much prefer if I had to choose between the STi or Evo, but I guess I'm not really into the boxy rally-racer car style. I feel like I've sorta grown a little old for those 2 cars.
I have another friend with an Evo which I much prefer if I had to choose between the STi or Evo, but I guess I'm not really into the boxy rally-racer car style. I feel like I've sorta grown a little old for those 2 cars.
05-28-2005, 08:04 PM
#4
Cost Drivers!!!!
sti hands down......better heritage, more distinctive looks, allweather, all year fun, better.
IF the GTO had better looks....i'd pick it but i can not get over the grand prix cookie cutter body.
IF the GTO had better looks....i'd pick it but i can not get over the grand prix cookie cutter body.
05-28-2005, 08:20 PM
#5
Senior Moderator
Hard choice for me. But with the STI having a new interior i may have to go with that one. I actually like the GTO on how it looks inside and out. Bland but to the point, kinda like the CLS was when it came out. 
I havent driven either one so.... yea. I like 4banger turbo cars but dunno if i would want another one.
I havent driven either one so.... yea. I like 4banger turbo cars but dunno if i would want another one.
05-28-2005, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapata
sti hands down......better heritage, more distinctive looks, allweather, all year fun, better.
IF the GTO had better looks....i'd pick it but i can not get over the grand prix cookie cutter body.
IF the GTO had better looks....i'd pick it but i can not get over the grand prix cookie cutter body.
05-28-2005, 09:06 PM
#7
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by cusdaddy
Actually, IMO, the GTO has as good a heritage as the STi. It was basically one of the fathers of the muscle car revolution back in the 60's.
GTO does but THIS GTO doesn't.....imho..
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05-28-2005, 09:11 PM
#9
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by cob3683
Yea but heritage deals with the past, not present. 
ya don't say 
lolz.... my point....outside of the GTO kills it for me. It looses the connection to the previous GTOs.
05-28-2005, 09:13 PM
#10
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by Zapata
ya don't say lolz.... my point....outside of the GTO kills it for me. It looses the connection to the previous GTOs.
It is a shame that they didnt make the new GTO look so much like a.....well.....a Pontiac.
05-28-2005, 09:29 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Zapata
ya don't say lolz.... my point....outside of the GTO kills it for me. It looses the connection to the previous GTOs.Whys that, the previous GTO was big engine in a chassis, this GTO is a huge engine in a chassis.
05-28-2005, 10:18 PM
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05-28-2005, 11:19 PM
#13
Drifting
i saw a GTO in action and it was pretty crazy. performance was great and the growl is unforgettable, but im still gonna go with the STi. the way it grabs the curvy roads and how it can still pack a punch on straight lines, its still a great all around car. its only a 4banger and packs that much of a punch, plus the limitless add-ons for the car makes it a long time fun ride.
05-29-2005, 02:13 PM
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GTO, there are unlimited add-ons for the 5.7l V8 c'mon you can turn a GTO into a stock car! With enough money and the right mods a GTO will push over 1000HP easy! Try getting an Sti to do that without exploding. GTO is real american muscle. Nothing beats torque!
05-29-2005, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sbuswell
GTO, there are unlimited add-ons for the 5.7l V8 c'mon you can turn a GTO into a stock car! With enough money and the right mods a GTO will push over 1000HP easy! Try getting an Sti to do that without exploding. GTO is real american muscle. Nothing beats torque!
imagine the gas prices on a GTO
05-29-2005, 02:46 PM
#18
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by TL CHROMETIDE
a 5.7 V-8 engine vs. a 2.5 I-4...........no duh imagine the gas prices on a GTO
imagine the gas prices on a GTOIf someones main concern with buying one of these two is MPG ratings then they need look at different vehicle types
05-29-2005, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cob3683
If someones main concern with buying one of these two is MPG ratings then they need look at different vehicle types
05-29-2005, 03:15 PM
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The GTO is cool, but stock vs. stock.......the STi simply a better car (especially if you value overall performance).
Not to mention, throw some snows on the STi and you'll pile drive right through the snow like the best SUV.
Nothing to debate.
Not to mention, throw some snows on the STi and you'll pile drive right through the snow like the best SUV.
Nothing to debate.
05-29-2005, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
Not to mention, throw some snows on the STi and you'll pile drive right through the snow like the best SUV.
Nothing to debate.
(and I'm originally from MI)
05-29-2005, 04:05 PM
#24
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I can't stand the way the STI looks. With that, I'd go with the GTO based soley on looks... Granted the GTO isn't a looker, either, but...
It's amazing to see how these big beefy V8s are being overlooked by much smaller displacement motors, like the one in the STI. The STI is certainly no slouch, but it's only a matter of time before we see the Corvette and Mustang carry the V8s in them and everything else is much lower displacement with FI to compensate. We're essentially already there.
I've already heard the latest generation calling the STIs, EVOs, etc... "muscle cars".
That's pretty sad.
It's too bad, really. I wonder how many of us around here have really ever driven a GM V8. I wish the GTO had some more curves to it, and was a little less porky.
It's amazing to see how these big beefy V8s are being overlooked by much smaller displacement motors, like the one in the STI. The STI is certainly no slouch, but it's only a matter of time before we see the Corvette and Mustang carry the V8s in them and everything else is much lower displacement with FI to compensate. We're essentially already there.
I've already heard the latest generation calling the STIs, EVOs, etc... "muscle cars".
That's pretty sad.It's too bad, really. I wonder how many of us around here have really ever driven a GM V8. I wish the GTO had some more curves to it, and was a little less porky.
05-29-2005, 04:34 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by Scrib
I can't stand the way the STI looks. With that, I'd go with the GTO based soley on looks... Granted the GTO isn't a looker, either, but...
It's amazing to see how these big beefy V8s are being overlooked by much smaller displacement motors, like the one in the STI. The STI is certainly no slouch, but it's only a matter of time before we see the Corvette and Mustang carry the V8s in them and everything else is much lower displacement with FI to compensate. We're essentially already there.
I've already heard the latest generation calling the STIs, EVOs, etc... "muscle cars". That's pretty sad.
It's too bad, really. I wonder how many of us around here have really ever driven a GM V8. I wish the GTO had some more curves to it, and was a little less porky.
It's amazing to see how these big beefy V8s are being overlooked by much smaller displacement motors, like the one in the STI. The STI is certainly no slouch, but it's only a matter of time before we see the Corvette and Mustang carry the V8s in them and everything else is much lower displacement with FI to compensate. We're essentially already there.
I've already heard the latest generation calling the STIs, EVOs, etc... "muscle cars".
That's pretty sad.It's too bad, really. I wonder how many of us around here have really ever driven a GM V8. I wish the GTO had some more curves to it, and was a little less porky.
Altough on those cars, I have a friend with an EvoVIII with some aftermarket mods, and driving that little 12.3 1/4 time beast was a FUN trip, and actually made me respect them a bit more. Looks wise, I say EvoVIII>Sti.
That trully disgraceful that there are morons around that are blaspheming the "Muscle car" label with calling the 4 banger turbo's "muscle cars"
I have driven my share of GM V-8's, my Dad used to own a 99 Camaro Z-28, and that thing was "put your ass back in the seat" fun to drive indeed. Too bad these ignorants haven't experienced these inorder to instill in them what a "muscle car" should be.
I also have a friend with a 71 Chevelle SS which is a beast.
the GTO should have some lbs. shed off of it to make it a little more nimble. In light of the obvious, it is still in the running for my next car (Tahnks to the GM employee discount)For a little more agressive look to the GTO, one can get the opition front and rear Fascia upgrades.
05-29-2005, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cTLgo
STi will last longer
05-29-2005, 05:47 PM
#29
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STI function over form. You are purchasing a car, for the most part, that can be rally driven. If you don't dig that then ya, then the GTO is definitely for you. If 300hp/300ftlbs isn't muscle what is?? That's like saying Ichiro isn't a baseball player because he isn't the size of Mcgwire. Run what ya brung at the end of the day. What's the difference between that and somebody with worked small black taking out monster big block?? How about a Neon SRT? Sure, i wouldn't argue and say evo and sti are AMERICAN muscle but they are muscle.
That's like saying Ichiro isn't a baseball player because he isn't the size of Mcgwire. Run what ya brung at the end of the day. What's the difference between that and somebody with worked small black taking out monster big block?? How about a Neon SRT? Sure, i wouldn't argue and say evo and sti are AMERICAN muscle but they are muscle.
Originally Posted by Scrib
I can't stand the way the STI looks. With that, I'd go with the GTO based soley on looks... Granted the GTO isn't a looker, either, but...
It's amazing to see how these big beefy V8s are being overlooked by much smaller displacement motors, like the one in the STI. The STI is certainly no slouch, but it's only a matter of time before we see the Corvette and Mustang carry the V8s in them and everything else is much lower displacement with FI to compensate. We're essentially already there.
I've already heard the latest generation calling the STIs, EVOs, etc... "muscle cars". That's pretty sad.
It's too bad, really. I wonder how many of us around here have really ever driven a GM V8. I wish the GTO had some more curves to it, and was a little less porky.
It's amazing to see how these big beefy V8s are being overlooked by much smaller displacement motors, like the one in the STI. The STI is certainly no slouch, but it's only a matter of time before we see the Corvette and Mustang carry the V8s in them and everything else is much lower displacement with FI to compensate. We're essentially already there.
I've already heard the latest generation calling the STIs, EVOs, etc... "muscle cars".
That's pretty sad.It's too bad, really. I wonder how many of us around here have really ever driven a GM V8. I wish the GTO had some more curves to it, and was a little less porky.
05-29-2005, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
If you care about resale..........don't buy a GTO, hello CL-S all over again.
The STi holds their values very well, along with the Evo.
The STi holds their values very well, along with the Evo.
Originally Posted by Zapata
STI function over form. You are purchasing a car, for the most part, that can be rally driven. If you don't dig that then ya, then the GTO is definitely for you. If 300hp/300ftlbs isn't muscle what is?? That's like saying Ichiro isn't a baseball player because he isn't the size of Mcgwire. Run what ya brung at the end of the day. What's the difference between that and somebody with worked small black taking out monster big block?? How about a Neon SRT? Sure, i wouldn't argue and say evo and sti are AMERICAN muscle but they are muscle.
That's like saying Ichiro isn't a baseball player because he isn't the size of Mcgwire. Run what ya brung at the end of the day. What's the difference between that and somebody with worked small black taking out monster big block?? How about a Neon SRT? Sure, i wouldn't argue and say evo and sti are AMERICAN muscle but they are muscle.Yes the STi and Evo both have muscle, just a different type of muscle, steroid induced perhaps ? It can be looked at as a "boost" too
Last edited by Chopper; 05-29-2005 at 06:23 PM.
05-29-2005, 07:36 PM
#33
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this is certainly a tough choice. what it really comes down to is balls to the wall preformance or bland styling but much more driveable.
with that said i would take the gto. i would love either of these cars, but i just cant see myself driving the sti because while at the track its fun, the lack of refinement kills it.
actually, i would love both. gto for an insane daily driver (doesn't scream ticket me to the cops) , and the sti for an insane weekend cruiser.
with that said i would take the gto. i would love either of these cars, but i just cant see myself driving the sti because while at the track its fun, the lack of refinement kills it.
actually, i would love both. gto for an insane daily driver (doesn't scream ticket me to the cops) , and the sti for an insane weekend cruiser.
05-29-2005, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cTLgo
STi will last longer
In addition, Subaru is partially owned by GM (~20%) so both have some relation.
05-29-2005, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
The GTO is cool, but stock vs. stock.......the STi simply a better car (especially if you value overall performance).
Not to mention, throw some snows on the STi and you'll pile drive right through the snow like the best SUV.
Nothing to debate.
Not to mention, throw some snows on the STi and you'll pile drive right through the snow like the best SUV.
Nothing to debate.
Some people value more comfort over pure performance which favors the GTO. I see the GTO as a more modern and powerful version of the CLS. Not a great handler (but can hold its own), great straight-line performance, a great engine note and unoffensive styling.
Here's my take on the winter situation: This winter I was in a pretty bad snow storm in my friend's STi. He still had his high performance summer tires on the STi, but we got stuck on a hill. I have a Z with Blizzak's and it actually performs better in the snow - better IMO than a STi with the summer tires.
If you need to pay for snow tires for both the GTO and STi, what's the big difference? In the Northeast, it rarely snows so badly a RWD with snow tires can't get around. I say it's a wash. The summer tires on the STi sort of negate the advantage of driving in snow.
You drive an STi so I'm sure you would favor it, but it doesn't mean to say there is not comparison.
Last edited by cusdaddy; 05-29-2005 at 08:55 PM.
05-29-2005, 08:52 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
vs a high boost turbo 4-cylinder that has only been in production 2 years.
05-29-2005, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MSZ
Even though the USDM doesn't have the same EJ20 engine which can be found in the JDM, but Subaru have been making these turbo boxers for more than a decade.(way back to the debut of the first gen Impreza STi in 1994)
In addition, a Tubrocharger always puts more stress on the engine, especially a high boost engine. Not saying it will explode, but I'd put $$ down that a LS2 would outlast the STi's engine driven in the same conditions.
05-29-2005, 09:03 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
This is the first time they used the 2.5L with this amount of boost. I'd feel more secure using the 2.0L vs the US-only 2.5L turbo.
In addition, a Tubrocharger always puts more stress on the engine, especially a high boost engine. Not saying it will explode, but I'd put $$ down that a LS2 would outlast the STi's engine driven in the same conditions.
In addition, a Tubrocharger always puts more stress on the engine, especially a high boost engine. Not saying it will explode, but I'd put $$ down that a LS2 would outlast the STi's engine driven in the same conditions.
But if I have 33k to spend, I would buy something else. These cars don't do anything to me.
05-29-2005, 09:12 PM
#39
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by cusdaddy
Here's my take on the winter situation: This winter I was in a pretty bad snow storm in my friend's STi. He still had his high performance summer tires on the STi, but we got stuck on a hill. I have a Z with Blizzak's and it actually performs better in the snow - better IMO than a STi with the summer tires.
If you need to pay for snow tires for both the GTO and STi, what's the big difference? In the Northeast, it rarely snows so badly a RWD with snow tires can't get around. I say it's a wash. The summer tires on the STi sort of negate the advantage of driving in snow.
i'm sorry, every winter driving thread with RWD alwaays brings out the cusdaddy , "but my Z with blizzaks was good" comment.
you are comparing RWD car with 300+ ftlbs of trq where nobody in the right mind would put snow tires on and drive around unless you have a death wish to a rally car that's proven itself in the snow and ice????? You're friend, was ann idiot for driving around in the winter with performance summer tires....sorry....what did you expect???? Summer rubber is soft and turns to stone in colder temps. In no way are those tires meant for the snow. For you to even make the assertation that your line of logic is remotely valid in evaluting the STi v. GTO is a little out there. Shit when you buy the car they tell you the tires are for the summer only..... How can you even make that comparison?@#$@# You can have your preference of the GTO over the STi but to say that they are equal in the snow because the STi comes with summer tires is
05-29-2005, 09:14 PM
#40
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by MSZ
Even though the USDM doesn't have the same EJ20 engine which can be found in the JDM, but Subaru have been making these turbo boxers for more than a decade.(way back to the debut of the first gen Impreza STi in 1994)
exactly.....shit.....these boxer engine has a history of race proven performance durability. You'll see the turbo and/or other parts of the driveline fail before the engine on stock boost.