Imports out, american Muscle in?

Old 11-26-2004, 12:32 PM
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Fawk it, I am ordering my Black/Black 05 Mustang GT early next week. And the bonus since the SO works for Ford I should get employee price.
Old 11-26-2004, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jtkz13
I dont think I'll ever go a period of time without owning some sort of rwd V8 car.

People who rip on the because they dont handle need to give it a rest. If you're talking about road-racing or auto-xing, then the driver makes a MUCH larger difference in track times than the car's setup. I was chasing down a heavily modified Civic Si (coilovers, sticky tires, etc) at Gingerman road course, and I have drag shocks & drag tires.
Thats very true, I was chasing down a LS1 F-body and 99+ GT in my Maxima. Did you know what kind of lap times you ran in your GT? I am going to take my 05 there next spring to see how it handles.
Old 11-26-2004, 02:26 PM
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Just for the record, a couple of my die hard dometic friends dont believe any car with fuel injection can be considered a muscle car. Their of the opinion that a muscle has to have 4 barrel carb for a heart.

Personally, I wouldnt mind having a WS6 in addition to my Maxima.
Old 11-26-2004, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
With Toyota becoming the 2nd largest Auotmaker in the world with its sales leading in the US and followed close behind with the other Japanese makers. The domestics have a long way to go.

[/B]
Toyota selling x amount of cars doesn't mean shit because they are starting to completely ignore the enthusiast market, celica and mr2 are both gone soon, that leaves nothing.

As far as a vette getting better mpgs than a Z, probably has a lot to do with forcing the driver to shift from 1st to 4th during conservative driving and a tall ass 6th gear, not the engine.
Old 09-03-2008, 09:39 AM
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Detroit's Big Problem: Its Cars Are Never The Best

It's the final scene of my favorite Charles Bronson movie that keeps me coming back. End of game. Bang. You're dead. Killed a perfectly good 1972 Mustang Mach 1, but my path was chosen.

Now I tell the truth for a living. A good living. I get big checks to write this garbage. Big enough that I can buy any car I want. OK, that's a stretch. The Mechanic cannot afford a Rolls or a Bugatti, but I've got money to spend. And I've got good taste. I'm also college-educated. Literate. And I appreciate the best. When I spend my money I spend it on quality goods. And the car I choose to be seen in must be a quality item. The finest of its kind.

In other words, I would not buy an American car. It's hard for me to even type that. Fact is, I'd like to buy an American car, a great American car. It just doesn't exist.

This only occurred to me recently, when my father, The Mechanic Sr., asked me what car I would buy if I could buy anything. I realized there wasn't an American car or truck on the list. Not one I lusted after.

Oh sure, the latest batch of goods from Eminem's hometown is worth a look; the Cadillac CTS is strong, the Buick Enclave is very good and the Pontiac G8 GT is a fine machine. I can also say good things about the Dodge Challenger SRT8, the Ford Flex and the Chevy Malibu. I also think the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 is pretty cool. And then there's the Corvette, which is likable in Z06 form and downright desirable in ZR1 trim. They're all good cars and trucks; they're just not the best.

And I said I want the best. The very best. And for the best you simply don't shop in Dearborn, Auburn Hills or Detroit's Renaissance Center.

Shame, really. But the facts are the facts. The bar keeps moving and Ford, Chrysler and General Motors are forever in catch-up mode. Have been since the first muscle car era became the first energy crisis. Hate to be the one to say it out loud, but Detroit remains a lap down.

Sure I'm kicking it when it's bleeding all over the floor. With full force and a pointy boot. But this is why it's down. Eventually, not making the best catches up with you.

Now your panties are in a big ball of a bunch, aren't they? Well, before you fire off some half-witted comment, keep reading. I'm about to cite examples.

For example: the new Corvette ZR1. 638 hp. Fastest, most powerful car in GM's 100-year history. Yawn. The new Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series packs 670 hp. It also looks like it costs six figures (the ZR1 is just a Z06 with a window cut in its hood) and doesn't pack a Wal-Mart interior.

I know, I know. The ZR1 is $100,000 while the SL65 Black Series will be more than twice that. So what? The Benz is still the best.

Screw price. I'm dog tired of giving GM and the rest of Detroit that out. Their cars are almost always cheaper and usually bigger. That's their game. They can't make it better, so they make it cheaper and bigger. Kinda like Costco. You get 500 rolls of the world's roughest toilet paper for $1. Your ass is killing you, but there's no arguing the value. (Ironically, the Germans make fine automobiles but produce the world's roughest TP.)

It worked for the Corvette Z06. "As fast as exotics for less than half the price," said the ad copy. But now the world has the Nissan GT-R. It costs about the same as the Z06, but delivers more speed, a better interior, more features and more technology. Don't even get me started on build quality. Without a doubt, the GT-R is the best high-performance car you can buy for $80,000.

See, the bar keeps moving and Detroit's a lap down.

I could go on with specific examples, but it's easier to just make a blanket statement: No American car, from the lowly Ford Focus to the mighty ZR1, is truly the best car in its segment in the world. Not one. The biggest of big pickup trucks being the exception and that's only because they're still the only game in town for dually diesels. Honda and BMW don't make those.

Sad, really. And it's not something Detroit wants to hear. They read the praise in the press and they believe their own PR. Cadillac really thinks the CTS is as good or better than anything in the world. Better than a BMW 5 Series. Better than a Mercedes E-Class. Sorry, guys. It's closer than you've ever been, but it's still a lap behind.

And if the members of the automotive press actually voted with their dollars instead of writing with their hearts, they would all be driving something from Japan or Germany. Well, the smart ones would anyway. The ones who don't live in Detroit. -- The Mechanic, Inside Line Contributor
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...hotopanel..2.*
Old 09-03-2008, 10:38 AM
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Holy old post!
Old 09-03-2008, 10:40 AM
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They are great for the consumer...not so great for the makers. If the domestics don't sell enough normal cars, they won't have a business case to make these muscle cars. Get then while you can I say.
Old 09-03-2008, 11:23 AM
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Oh dear G-d...I thought this was a new thread.

Phew.

Originally Posted by Crazy Acura
Lately i have had this desire for wanting a muscle car like a GTO or Vette even a cobra.
Old 09-03-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Street Spirit
Oh dear G-d...I thought this was a new thread.

Phew.

So did I.
Old 09-03-2008, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Acura
So did I.
I thought your case of Nickyitis was cured?
Old 09-03-2008, 12:23 PM
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Holy thread revival Batman!

And Crazy Acura wanting American Muscle?!?! Ok ok, I guess back in 2004 it made some sense - who knew that gas prices would sky rocket to $4, back in 2004? (ok all of us knew, but we didn't expect it to get this high.)
Old 09-03-2008, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BraveDemon
Holy thread revival Batman!

And Crazy Acura wanting American Muscle?!?! Ok ok, I guess back in 2004 it made some sense - who knew that gas prices would sky rocket to $4, back in 2004? (ok all of us knew, but we didn't expect it to get this high.)
i remember pumping at $1.45 4 yrs ago, and almost fainted with the thought of $4-5 a gallon. but then again i was making like $8 an hr.....
Old 09-03-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
I thought your case of Nickyitis was cured?

I am cured. Just like having some fun with you kids.
Old 09-03-2008, 02:44 PM
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The only ones that I would ever honestly consider is either the CTS-V and the Vette. Otherwise though, I'm sticking with my imports. I just feel certain companies (not all of them...trust me) outside the US have a knack for cars more than we do.

Old 09-03-2008, 03:08 PM
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muscle cars did try for a come back in 05-06 with the redesigned mustang, GTO, dodge charger ect ect.
but didnt do so hot with the gas where it is now....
Old 09-03-2008, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AznX TL
muscle cars did try for a come back in 05-06 with the redesigned mustang, GTO, dodge charger ect ect.
but didnt do so hot with the gas where it is now....
Well, it's still apparent that they are still trying, evidence of the challenger and camero that will be out in not too terribly long.

I agree though, that they may be digging themselves a pit with gas prices and all.
Old 09-03-2008, 03:31 PM
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old thread =p

people actually claim cruising averages of 18mpg with big 'ol 400hp LS's in their GTO's and vettes. those engines are surprisingly efficient if those anecdotes are true; however they probably don't get such high numbers cause who would actualyl cruise with all that power available =p.

i was looking at gto's for a bit and still would probably want one some day (or probably just get a vette wen the prices go down a bit lol). the torque on those engines is insane (also test drove a new g8 with 365hp and 385lb. torque), there's nothing quite like doing a mini-step on a turn and chirping the back end like it's nothing lol.
Old 09-03-2008, 04:09 PM
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I gave up lots of luxuries when I sold the CL-S and bought a GTO. I went from getting 20mpg-city/30mpg-HW in the Acura to 17mpg-city/24mph-HW in my '06 GTO. That is not a drastic difference, but I did take 2+ seconds off my 1/4 mile ET

It has been worth every extra penny to me...

YMMV

Jabo
Old 09-03-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Time For Sleeep
old thread =p

people actually claim cruising averages of 18mpg with big 'ol 400hp LS's in their GTO's and vettes. those engines are surprisingly efficient if those anecdotes are true; however they probably don't get such high numbers cause who would actualyl cruise with all that power available =p.
I've averaged 20 mpg on my last 5 fill ups, and i'm not easy on it. My dads vette use to get 30 mpg!!!!
Old 09-03-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AznX TL
muscle cars did try for a come back in 05-06 with the redesigned mustang, GTO, dodge charger ect ect.
but didnt do so hot with the gas where it is now....
i get the same mpgs my old 6 cylinder acura got.
Old 09-03-2008, 04:27 PM
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I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.

A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.

Both have their places.


Terry
Old 09-03-2008, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by teranfon
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.

A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.

Both have their places.


Terry


me, I'm still not looking for a steady relationship.... I'm looking for the one that likes it rough, luckily I've found her. She just takes it and takes it.... I've had my fair share of imports, from ones I've owned to ones I've driven. I think for now, for the price, I really can't go wrong. I can appreciate the TL's nice interior, but I've realized I can live well off without it
Old 09-03-2008, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by teranfon
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.

Both have their places.


Terry
Great comparison.
Old 09-03-2008, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jabodacious
I gave up lots of luxuries when I sold the CL-S and bought a GTO. I went from getting 20mpg-city/30mpg-HW in the Acura to 17mpg-city/24mph-HW in my '08 G37 6MT.
Quote changed to fit my situation ... my G is a pig on gas compared to my TL-S. And I am easy with the gas pedal, too!

But I do think most are liking the direction the style of American cars was heading. But now that gas is where it is, it seems America is getting all their ideas (from car design, engines, etc) from anywhere but here -- Europe, Australia and Asia seem to be the answer for the Big3. It's too bad they can't retool fast enough to meet the finicky demands of its consumers.
Old 09-04-2008, 09:03 AM
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I think the "American Muscle" cars are definitely making a come back. Their prices are a bit less, and most of the re-designs have been pretty good. Hell, I'm a Japanese driver and I would consider owning one or 2 of them.
Old 09-04-2008, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RaviNJCLs
I think the "American Muscle" cars are definitely making a come back. Their prices are a bit less, and most of the re-designs have been pretty good. Hell, I'm a Japanese driver and I would consider owning one or 2 of them.
same here.

and i've been whenever i see a saleen mustang after transformers.
Old 09-04-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by nokiaman
Great comparison.
Exactly!
Old 09-04-2008, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by teranfon
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.

Both have their places.


Terry
I agree with everyone else, great quote! Sig worthy even!

Wanna see me spank my slut!?!
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bMjU9NepqBY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bMjU9NepqBY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Old 09-04-2008, 11:42 PM
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12.6???

Old 09-05-2008, 12:23 AM
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My original intent was to ditch my Accord as soon as I paid it off for a 6.0L GTO but I'm scared of gas prices ripping me a new one so my new ambitions are MINI's.
Old 09-05-2008, 12:49 AM
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Imports can be a lot faster then they were 10 years ago. I'd take a k24frankenstein swapped EG or EF hatch over a Mustang anyday.
Old 09-05-2008, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by teranfon
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.

A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.

Both have their places.


Terry
Here Here!!! I cant wait to get a slut in my garage
Old 09-05-2008, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zguy95135
Imports can be a lot faster then they were 10 years ago. I'd take a k24frankenstein swapped EG or EF hatch over a Mustang anyday.
Big loud obnoxious V8 rumble > I4 growl.
Old 09-05-2008, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BEETROOT
going on the automotive definition, I agree... but you know what he meant. and the new GTO wouldn't qualify either IMO since its a completely different vehicle than the classic gto.

muscle car meaning a high powered american car.
I always thought it meant really really fast in a straight line

Originally Posted by TS_eXpeed
Well, it's still apparent that they are still trying, evidence of the challenger and camero that will be out in not too terribly long.

I agree though, that they may be digging themselves a pit with gas prices and all.
They are about 4 years late to the party to be successful.
Originally Posted by zguy95135
Imports can be a lot faster then they were 10 years ago. I'd take a k24frankenstein swapped EG or EF hatch over a Mustang anyday.
Yeah, I gotta go test drive one of the 09's down at the Honda dealer, what model civic comes with that k24frankenstein?
Old 09-05-2008, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by black label
I always thought it meant really really fast in a straight line


They are about 4 years late to the party to be successful.

Yeah, I gotta go test drive one of the 09's down at the Honda dealer, what model civic comes with that k24frankenstein?


I'm talking in general, I'd rather have an import instead of domestic. Better?

And I don't know if American "muscle" cars are having that much of a comeback, I almost never see a modified domestic.
Old 09-05-2008, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by teranfon
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.

A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.

Both have their places.


Terry
Wait, don't forget our Accord's are made in the U.S. afterall, Terry.

I love my Accord 6mt and with my new exhaust it sounds closer to American muscle than it did stock, but I still can't get my early V8 experiences out of my head sometimes. When I hear a big cam lobe/rumbling V8 my knees get weak and I can't help but to remember the torque-a-licious feeling of a V8. But I do love passing by the gas pump when a new Stang is filling up and I'm still on a half tank.
Old 09-05-2008, 11:44 AM
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import ftw. i'd rather have a high quality, decent powered import such as the TL rather than a high powered, fast muscle car that is in the shop every few months. granted, i have some respect for the vette, but other that that
Old 09-05-2008, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by zguy95135


I'm talking in general, I'd rather have an import instead of domestic. Better?

And I don't know if American "muscle" cars are having that much of a comeback, I almost never see a modified domestic.
Then you arent looking very hard, specially in so cal.
Old 09-05-2008, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by imj0257
import ftw. i'd rather have a high quality, decent powered import such as the TL rather than a high powered, fast muscle car that is in the shop every few months. granted, i have some respect for the vette, but other that that
I'm willing to bet some people here have had their TL's etc in the shop as much as or more as people here who own GTOs/Mustangs, etc.

You guys need to wake up and pull your heads out of the sand.
Old 09-05-2008, 11:50 AM
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rawr. ur right on the fact that some cars are improving quality such as cadillac but sorry i will never own a ford or chevy. i have a malibu rental right now it has 26k miles on it and feels like it is about to fall apart

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