Hyundai to pay owners for overestimating MPG
11-09-2012, 04:34 PM
#41
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Here is a second article by Motortrend which summarizes the real-world mpg of recent Hyundai/Kia models:
http://wot.motortrend.com/mpgate-we-...es-286419.html
Short term road tests are not factored in as most of them focus on performance driving.
However, in pretty much all the long term tests, the cars deliver worse than the EPA combined rating.
Also, in most, if not all the comparison tests, the Hyundai/Kia models have the worse real world fuel efficiency. This is a trend observed from 9 different comparison and long-term tests. Similar trend has been noticed with other car mags too.
http://wot.motortrend.com/mpgate-we-...es-286419.html
Short term road tests are not factored in as most of them focus on performance driving.
However, in pretty much all the long term tests, the cars deliver worse than the EPA combined rating.
Also, in most, if not all the comparison tests, the Hyundai/Kia models have the worse real world fuel efficiency. This is a trend observed from 9 different comparison and long-term tests. Similar trend has been noticed with other car mags too.
11-09-2012, 04:37 PM
#42
Hyundai and Kia are doing the right thing, but something like this shouldn't have happened in the first place with overestimating power and MPG. Paying back owners is somewhat a step in the right direction, but the crappy MPG has more effects down the road in resale value, etc. .
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/06/w...-resale-value/
Trust me, there are a lot of car companies that seem great until you own one. My 760 goes through a quart of oil every 5-7K, and BMW policy is that a car can loose 1 quart per 1000 miles and be fine operationally. Tons of BMW V8's have failing valve stem seals and coolant leaks that cost 8-10K to fix. Many new BMW owners with turbo V8's are having a LOT of issues as well from oil pump failures, turbo failures, overheating, etc and BMW is really not doing anything widespread to fix it.
IMO, individual dealers play a bigger role than anything when it comes to how your looked after when you have a problem with your vehicle. Its nice to hear Honda has looked after you when you've had issues but unfortunately mine have been the complete opposite when it comes to Honda/Toyota etc.
I had a Civic years ago that ate head gaskets for some reason and Honda never backed their product and said it must be something im doing wrong. A year or two after i sold it, i found out Honda new about the issue at the time and had released a revised head gasket and torque ratings for the problem.....It was sure nice of Honda to keep that quiet while I had to dig into my pocket for their issues that they blamed on me.
......Dont even get me started on the POS, Odyssey we have at work.
11-09-2012, 04:59 PM
#43
Some people on Hyundai-Forums who are completely losing their panties over this really need some hobbies or some...*ahem* stress release. 
Hyundai is doing more for their owners over two MPG (some twenty miles over the course of a tank) than Honda and Acura has ever done for their owners with bad transmissions. This is also more than Toyota has done for the MILLIONS of owners with recalls for sticking accelerators, poorly designed floor mats, window switches that catch fire and engines that seize due to sludge. Keep in mind both of those brands (mostly Toyota) stuck to blaming the owners for the problems, sometimes for years, before finally agreeing to a recall or extended warranty.
I'll be getting reimbursed for the difference AND inconvenience so long as I own the car and that's around $100 that I wouldn't have had otherwise. If the owners angry about this don't want money for driving their car, sell it and buy one where you won't get paid.
I signed up, I'm eligible and guess what, I'm still smiling.
Hyundai is doing more for their owners over two MPG (some twenty miles over the course of a tank) than Honda and Acura has ever done for their owners with bad transmissions. This is also more than Toyota has done for the MILLIONS of owners with recalls for sticking accelerators, poorly designed floor mats, window switches that catch fire and engines that seize due to sludge. Keep in mind both of those brands (mostly Toyota) stuck to blaming the owners for the problems, sometimes for years, before finally agreeing to a recall or extended warranty.
I'll be getting reimbursed for the difference AND inconvenience so long as I own the car and that's around $100 that I wouldn't have had otherwise. If the owners angry about this don't want money for driving their car, sell it and buy one where you won't get paid.
I signed up, I'm eligible and guess what, I'm still smiling.
Enthusiast's on these forums always get upset, just like on most of the Japanese and NA car forums are hoping Hyundai/Kia will be out of buisness because of this in a couple years..
I have asked a few people i know that owned a vehicle affected by this and they could care less about the 1-2 MPG difference. If anything, when i mentioned they could go to Hyundai and get a rebate they where shocked and happy about how hyundai is handling the situation.
Myself, like many believe what Hyundai did was wrong (much like the HP issue 10 years ago) but Hyundai is handling it very well and appears to be controlling the problem with the media also extremely well. When this was announced earlier in the week, it was the top story in the consumer news and the media was portraying Hyundai as hero's for standing behind their product.
Will Hyundai get sued?? Yup, just like they did in 2002 for the HP issues.
Will they get fined by the EPA?? Very good chance
Will Hyundai continue to grow and get stronger?? You bet they will
How Hyundai controls the media will dictate how this plays out
11-10-2012, 10:42 AM
#45
Senior Moderator
Car and driver praised their long term sonata for its good gas mileage
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ng-term-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ng-term-review
11-12-2012, 05:19 PM
#46
Team Owner
1-2 mpg.... who cares.
Last time i got 24mpg in my s2k was about 1 year ago. Been 16-20 with 80% freeway.
but is Hyundai going to offer more discount on their cars? i would gladly take the 1-2 mpg loss for more discount.
Last time i got 24mpg in my s2k was about 1 year ago. Been 16-20 with 80% freeway.
but is Hyundai going to offer more discount on their cars? i would gladly take the 1-2 mpg loss for more discount.
11-13-2012, 12:56 PM
#47
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Car and driver praised their long term sonata for its good gas mileage
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ng-term-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ng-term-review
http://wot.motortrend.com/we-hear-hy...or-286177.html
Back to that long term review, it's interesting that the Sonata 2.0T is getting 25mpg....as C/D also managed to get 25mpg in a long-term test of the Honda Odyssey:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wrap-up-review
11-13-2012, 01:03 PM
#48
I drive a Subata.
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Ooooh iforyou, long time no see.
I see you are... the same as before.
I see you are... the same as before.
11-13-2012, 01:09 PM
#49
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1.) for some models, it's only 1-2mpg, but the whole range is between 1-6mpg. Many models are 3-4mpg off.
2.) Hyundai has been advertising the Elantra as a 40mpg car for a long time. Out of all the Elantra buyers, how many made the decision to buy the Elantra based on that?
3.) 1-2mpg might not sound like a lot to consumers, but companies spend a lot of money and time to develop technologies just to get that extra 1-2mpg. It literally takes a generation of a vehicle to gain that amount. Don't you think that's a bit unfair to other companies? And then there are those models that are 3-6mpg off.....
I don't know, but I certainly don't want other companies to follow Hyundai and Kia. Just imagine all companies exaggerate their EPA ratings. Later, one by one, each company will claim that there's an error with the testing procedures and each company will compensate the buyers.
This way, the company gets more initial sales, revenues, and profits. Then the company admits error and rolls out a compensation program. This makes the media happy and everyone will think the company is a hero. Is this what we really want?
11-13-2012, 01:30 PM
#51
Team Owner
1-2mpg is not a big deal of course...but some issues:
1.) for some models, it's only 1-2mpg, but the whole range is between 1-6mpg. Many models are 3-4mpg off.
I rarely get advertised MPG so unless something seriously is wrong. 1-4mpg less is within my expectation from any car. MPG has a lot to do with driving habit and conditions.
2.) Hyundai has been advertising the Elantra as a 40mpg car for a long time. Out of all the Elantra buyers, how many made the decision to buy the Elantra based on that?
i see many people do get 40mpg out of Elantra and many others don't. i personally think Hyundai did play some tricks with their MPG but it is still possible to get 40mpg just not for most of the buyers. my GF's civic gets 27 mpg, while many people say they get 37.
3.) 1-2mpg might not sound like a lot to consumers, but companies spend a lot of money and time to develop technologies just to get that extra 1-2mpg. It literally takes a generation of a vehicle to gain that amount. Don't you think that's a bit unfair to other companies? And then there are those models that are 3-6mpg off.....
You ask me what i think? i think 1-2 MPG improvement is all marketing tricks.
I have never felt any difference in MPG between 2G TL, 3G TL, accord, civics, Camry. Each Gen is all about the same for the past 10 years. That is real personal experience.
I don't know, but I certainly don't want other companies to follow Hyundai and Kia. Just imagine all companies exaggerate their EPA ratings. Later, one by one, each company will claim that there's an error with the testing procedures and each company will compensate the buyers.
This way, the company gets more initial sales, revenues, and profits. Then the company admits error and rolls out a compensation program. This makes the media happy and everyone will think the company is a hero. Is this what we really want?
1.) for some models, it's only 1-2mpg, but the whole range is between 1-6mpg. Many models are 3-4mpg off.
I rarely get advertised MPG so unless something seriously is wrong. 1-4mpg less is within my expectation from any car. MPG has a lot to do with driving habit and conditions.
2.) Hyundai has been advertising the Elantra as a 40mpg car for a long time. Out of all the Elantra buyers, how many made the decision to buy the Elantra based on that?
i see many people do get 40mpg out of Elantra and many others don't. i personally think Hyundai did play some tricks with their MPG but it is still possible to get 40mpg just not for most of the buyers. my GF's civic gets 27 mpg, while many people say they get 37.
3.) 1-2mpg might not sound like a lot to consumers, but companies spend a lot of money and time to develop technologies just to get that extra 1-2mpg. It literally takes a generation of a vehicle to gain that amount. Don't you think that's a bit unfair to other companies? And then there are those models that are 3-6mpg off.....
You ask me what i think? i think 1-2 MPG improvement is all marketing tricks.
I have never felt any difference in MPG between 2G TL, 3G TL, accord, civics, Camry. Each Gen is all about the same for the past 10 years. That is real personal experience.
I don't know, but I certainly don't want other companies to follow Hyundai and Kia. Just imagine all companies exaggerate their EPA ratings. Later, one by one, each company will claim that there's an error with the testing procedures and each company will compensate the buyers.
This way, the company gets more initial sales, revenues, and profits. Then the company admits error and rolls out a compensation program. This makes the media happy and everyone will think the company is a hero. Is this what we really want?
I'd rather have a company that stand behind their product than a company who refused to acknowledge any wrong doing * u know who*
11-13-2012, 05:02 PM
#52
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2.) Of course I understand "your mileage may vary." This is why I rarely use my mpg for comparison. I like to use real world mileage in comparison tests. This is when cars are being tested on the same days, same driving conditions, with the same drivers. I also like to use Fuelly.com as it has more data (not the best, but better than just a person making a claim).
3.) Yea, as soon as they have made improvements in efficiency, the weight and power go up as well......lol....
11-13-2012, 06:16 PM
#53
Team Owner
1.) I think EPA, if possible, should do better in that area. For instance, instead of just checking 15% of the cars, may be check 30%? Obviously, EPA ratings numbers generated from EPA test cycles. If a car is rated at 20mpg city, 30mpg highway in EPA. Then that car should deliver 20mpg in the EPA city cycle, and 30mpg in the EPA hwy cycle. This is not to say the car will deliver 20mpg city in the real world, and/or 30mpg on the highway in the real world. The problem with the 900,000 Hyundai vehicles is that, IN THE EPA TESTS, they don't deliver, let alone in the real world.
2.) Of course I understand "your mileage may vary." This is why I rarely use my mpg for comparison. I like to use real world mileage in comparison tests. This is when cars are being tested on the same days, same driving conditions, with the same drivers. I also like to use Fuelly.com as it has more data (not the best, but better than just a person making a claim).
3.) Yea, as soon as they have made improvements in efficiency, the weight and power go up as well......lol....
2.) Of course I understand "your mileage may vary." This is why I rarely use my mpg for comparison. I like to use real world mileage in comparison tests. This is when cars are being tested on the same days, same driving conditions, with the same drivers. I also like to use Fuelly.com as it has more data (not the best, but better than just a person making a claim).
3.) Yea, as soon as they have made improvements in efficiency, the weight and power go up as well......lol....
They should do something that actually matters to consumers.
It does not take much to figure out what the real MPG is. Stop assuming.
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