Berginyon8

How would you rank the mainstream luxury/premium brands in America?
I'm not talking about sales figures but just the overall quality/strength of the brand's lineup from top to bottom.

My opinion is:

1-Mercedes
I feel like this is the strongest luxury brand. Even the entry level CLA looks good and is pretty solid to drive. The old reliability issues of Mercedes seem to have been solved(more or less)

2-BMW
I feel like they still cut too much corners when it comes to interior and I feel like their flagship is below that of the S and the LS. Seem to be slowly but surely going away from their 'driver's mentality' but to me it's still the 2nd best brand behind Mercedes.

3-Lexus
Their redesigns are amazing. The IS looks flashy and the 350 version is considered best in class by numerous reviews. The outdated LS is still(to me) 2nd best in Class and Lexus utterly dominates the SUV Segment. I actually think the upcoming NX/RC lineups will elevate Lexus even more.


I found it interesting that the top 3 luxury/premium brands to me are also the three best selling luxury brands in America. I guess numbers don't lie.
4-Audi

I think there is a big drop from the top 4 and 'the rest'.


The rest:
Acura/Infiniti/Cadillac/Volvo/



Lincoln(will probably become extinct very soon)

ossaguy

That's how I would rank them.In this area,there a a lot of Porsches that too me scream quality,although I'm sure the total sales numbers are not there.

Is Infiniti a stronger,higher ranked brand than Acura today?


Steve

charliemike

1. Porsche
2. Tesla
3. BMW
4. Mercedes
5. Lexus
6. Audi
7. Cadillac
8. Volvo
9. Infiniti
10. Acura

Jaguar may jump in when the XE gets here. Lincoln ... I just don't know what they are at the moment.

carz0159

1. BMW
2. Mercedes
3. Audi
4. Lexus
5. Cadillac
6. Infiniti
7. Volvo
8. Hyundai
9. Kia
10. Acura

Hyundai and Kia both have a few luxury cars in their lineup, far more than Tesla. Porsche is more sporty to me than luxury.

charliemike

I'd have to disagree on Porsche with the Macan, Cayenne, and Panamera.

MTEAZY

Tony Pac

With all respect, your opinion is biased. Hyundai and Kia before Acura? C'mon! If you really believe that way, then all good. I respect your opinion.

Berginyon8

I don't think it is. I notice car fans like to talk as if SUV'S don't matter. It does. It's now a big part of the luxury segment and it will become bigger. Acura's MDX blows any current Infiniti out of the water. The Q50 has also proven to be underwhelming in terms of sales when compared to the old G Series. (Although that could be due to the amazing success of the Lexus IS taking away from their sales).

Infiniti talks about their 'M' line a lot. I'm sorry. I don't think the M is anywhere close to the 5,A6,GS,E.


Anyways.
Acura/Infiniti

My opinion
Q50<TLX
M>RLX
Infiniti Suvs<than Acura Suvs.


Flagship(LS/7 SERIES) TBD
Performance cars TBD

Berginyon8

His/her opinion doesn't count for anything. It have zero ground. Zero.
Nobody in their right minds(real world perception) would say

'I believe Kia is a luxury brand and it's better than Acura'. First off Kia/Hyundai isn't even considered premium brands outside of 'forum world'. Now do they make good cars? Yes. Are they on their way up? Yes. Could they possibly overcome Acura in the next 3-5 years? Yes. But are they 'better' than Acura now? Hell no. That's absurd.

AZuser

How can Tesla be on the list when they only have 1 model to offer? I'm thinking you (and everyone else?) misread the question which is:
It seems people are ranking based on brand prestige and not on the brand's lineup which is what the OP asked.

M.I.N.O.

iTrader: (1)

1. Audi
2. BMW
3. Mercedes-Benz
4. Lexus
5. Cadillac
6. Porsche
7. Infiniti
8. Jaguar
9. Aston Martin
10. Land Rover

As much as I love my TL-S, the current Acura lineup just can't compete with the other luxury brands. Not even worthy of a top 10 mention IMO. Hopefully they'll step their game up.

CAgine

In America, it is no question the German marquee are premium.

Probably

Porsche
Mercedes
BMW
Lexus/Audi
Audi/Lexus
Infiniti
Cadillac
Acura/Genesis
Genesis/Acura
Rovers/Jag/Lincoln/Buick/etc.

Speaking entirely on sales volume. In that order most likely.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

Great post. I won't count Porsche, as the brand is more unattainable than mainstream. My take on this question includes desirability as well. Here are my picks.

1. Audi. Audi has incredible design language. I can't pick a car in their line up that I would not own. They brought us the L.E.D. running lights that are copied by almost every car manufacturer now. And, it (IMO) is the one car company that keeps BMW on its toes.

2. BMW. I hate to say it, but if I'm honest, nothing says I'm affluent and I like driving like a BMW. Year after year BMW is the benchmark of how to build a driver's car. It'd be #1 on my list if the interior was on par with Audi.

3. Mercedes. I don't care who you are; car guy or non-car guy, when you see the tristar emblem you know it's something special. Mercedes invented the luxury brand segment, and is still going strong, even after a lapse in quality in the late 90's. It's wide range of vehicles, from CLA to SLR is incredible.

I think you have to pick the Germans in the top 3. They are true luxury brands that started off that way, not as an afterthought of a parent company.

4. Lexus. Here is another brand that I cringe at ranking high, but you gotta give Lexus props. It is the Mercedes that Mercedes didn't build. There is a reason why Lexus took off and topped the segment, even in the company of Acura and Infiniti. It took the best of Toyota (quality) and nailed desirable luxury designs and appointments. The designs got boring over time, but they are making strides in the design dept. recently. I don't like the design language, but I can appreciate a polorizing design.

5. Cadillac. Can you say CTS-V? How does a car brand go from your grandfather's brand to your brand in a such a short period of time? Just look at what the modern Caddy looks like now. CTS, ATS, SLX... I wish I could afford an ELR (or a CTS-V for that matter). Also, let's not forget that the Escalade has been the pinnicle of the Luxury SUV segment for quite some time. I'd prefer a Range Rover, but still... Cadillac is a household name in luxury, and it has regained its brand recognition over the year because they are building great automobiles again.

6. Infiniti. Talk about a bang for buck luxury brand. It doesn't get any better than Infiniti, in my opinion. I remember when Infiniti came along and ate Acura's lunch in short order, and Acura still hasn't recovered. The G35 is a car that will be remembered as a game changer. Infiniti's powerplant, interior appointments, and value proposition is the reason why you see so many on the roads today. while I don't like most of the cars in the current line up, I think they have something going on with the new design language. BTW, what's up with Johan De Nysshan quitting after he changed all the names of the cars?! Bastard.

7. Land Rover. This is another brand that screams, "oppulence, I has it!" The Range Rover and RR Sport are like the 911. They keep getting more beautiful with time. If it weren't for the brand changing ownership so often (Tata! Seriously?), and the quality issues, it'd be higher on my list.

8. Tesla. Two words. Game changer. Tesla has almost singlehandedly made electric cars cool. It is only low on the list because it still has a looong way to go before it is truly a mature car company. I have no doubt it will be. I look forward to the day where there are 5 to 6 cars in their line up.

9. Buick. I'd never own one, but have you seen this line up lately? And the quality is excellent. Unlike Cadillac, Buick has not shooken off the "old people car" perception. However, it is a solid luxury brand.

10. (in no particular order) Acura, Jaguar, Lincoln, Volvo. These are luxury brands that have either lost their way (Acura), are too niche (Jaguar, Volvo), or almost defunct (Lincoln). I applaud the efforts, especially Jaguar over the last five years (ala F type), but as a brand they all need work to be in the same ranking as my top 9 picks.

CAgine

Nice summary of the Benz brand. The older Benz's were considered the best cars in the world due to their reliability and made many advances in safety/luxury technology (although the S class still the leads the way even today)...But quality downgrade in the late 90's and early 00s, is really the reason why Lexus is the company it is today. Considering the recent quality surge and reliability by Benz since late 2008, they're definitely hitting their old stride again.

BMW is nice, not personally my favorite of the German luxury, but theres no doubt their 3/5 series are the bench marks for performance/precision.

Sarlacc

You create an opinion based thread and then say opinions don't count for anything Are you daft?

Sarlacc

They currently make one car...and they make it damn well. And it sells like hotcakes. I can spit just about anywhere in LA and hit one.

This car would be my #1 choice for a high end luxury sedan out of any on the market today.

When the model III comes out...the flood gates will open.

AZuser

I agree that the Model S is an amazing car and it too would be at the top of my list for a luxury sedan/cruiser. I see them all over LA as well.

But the OP's question was about the "overall quality/strength of the brand's lineup from top to bottom."

Tesla doesn't have a lineup of cars from top to bottom (i.e. CUV, SUV, sedan, coupe, wagon, etc) like how Mercedes, Audi, or Lexus does. Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what the OP's asking.

If we're talking about the company/brand or prestige, then yes Tesla definitely should be on the list. Around here, the Model S alone is enough to put Tesla at the top of the list, above BMW, Audi, Lexus, and Mercedes.

Berginyon8

I apologize. That was a stupid comment by me. I take it back.

I was just under the impression that my rankings would only include 'traditional'
'upscale' brands. I was going under the 'auto industry' definition of 'mainstream' luxury. Which is:Lexus,BMW,MERCEDES,AUDI,INFINIT,CADALLIC,ACURA, etc etc etc.

Cars like Porsche,Jaguar are more 'niche' luxury. And Hyundai,Kia isn't really 'luxury' brands as defined by the auto industry. But I do understand that a lot of people on car forums would consider 'Buick and Hyundai' 'luxury' brands..it's just that the auto definition of a 'luxury brand' haven't been stamped on those car names yet. Etc

Berginyon8

It's your opinion and I respect that. But one car doesn't 'define' a brand. That would be like if BMW just made the '3 Series' only. I wouldn't put them above Lexus or Audi in that case, because it's just one segment. I was more asking about a top to bottom overall brand quality. (CLA-S CLASS) (1 SERIES-7) Etc.
CT-LS etc/LFA Bonus.

AZuser

In that case, why then did you put Acura on the list? Acura hasn't been "stamped" as a luxury brand either.

God knows Acura has tried and tried and tried to establish itself as a luxury brand, but all they are considered IMO is "premium" like Buick (and Lincoln).

But then again, you did as for peoples opinions and that's what you're getting.

Sarlacc

There is where the opinion part comes in.

While Kia and Hyundai are not luxury marques...the Equus/Geneis sedan/k900 are very much luxury cars. Much in the way a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee is a luxury SUV.

But if you're calling for an entire line up I see where you are coming from.

Except I don't consider the CLA a luxury car...personally I think its a turd. opinion. And in most other places in the world Mercedes isn't a luxury brand overall.

And BMW...offer synthetic leather in many of their cars...does that define luxury?

I mention all this because their is room for interpretation on all ends.

achenator

I see WAYYYY more new infiniti SUV's than Acuras around here.

Sarlacc

Agreed. The jx or whatever stupid qx number it is now is everywhere. And I would get one over the mdx.

YeuEmMaiMai

Acura is no more a luxury brand that Chrysler is....they both used to be luxury but have since moved into the average car segment

Tony Pac

I would rank them as following:

1. BMW, Audi & MB (not in any particular order)
2. Infiniti, Lexus & Acura (not in any particular order)
3. American cars

Then there are other segments
Porsche
Volvo
Tesla
Jaguar
Land Rover

These cars have a different market.

F23A4

The only way I would get the JX over the MDX is if it adopted the FX37 powertrain instead of the Murano's. Granted I'm a little biased having owned an 09 base, now a 12 Tech and probably a 15 Tech when the time comes.

SH-AWD handling prowess has really spoiled me to the point where I'd probably only opt for the X5 and Cayenne if I had to give up on SH-AWD in this segment.

Turning back to the original topic, I tend to agree with the OPs ranking order.

Sarlacc

I just drove a brand new '14 X5 and I can't say it blew my socks off. But I've felt that way about a lot of mainstream bimmers for years now.

I like the look of the JX, many don't. And it has the best in class 3rd row access.

That said, I would take the Durango over all of them.

F23A4

I like the looks of the JX and find its visual appeal as nice as the new MDX. I just don't like Nissan's powertrain choice for it.

As far as the Durango goes, Dodge has definitely made an SUV that should keep the Mopar fans happy.

hddnav

For those who have placed Volvo on the list, how many are actually aware that Volvo was bought out by the Chinese company (Zhejiang Geely) back in 2010? Therefore, they are 100% Chinese owned, with all the implications attributed to such.

For what it's worth, does that impact your ranking of the brand? Not suggesting either way, but just curious.

Sarlacc

I never considered Volvo to be a luxury marque

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

I started to write an elaborate statement on what constitutes an automotive luxury brand. As I was typing, I realized that it is subjective. We're all right, because it's all perception. I gave it some thought, and the reason I included Volvo is because it's foreign, expensive and a brand of its own. The first two factors matter in my perception. It's stupid, I know, but if Volvos were domestic and cost as much as a Honda Accord there would be no argument as to whether or not it was a luxury marque.

Sarlacc

They are expensive because they are imported. But Ive never really seen them as feature rich luxury cars. Safety first...yeah thats how they made their name...some racing heritage and sporty models that were cool underdogs...and king of the wagons for a while.

But I've just never really held them as a luxury marque. Saab was more luxury.

Berginyon8

I guess I'm not as into the 'forum' lingo/talk regarding 'luxury' brands as a lot of posters.
It was always my assumption and the assumption of many of my friends that a 'luxury auto marker' is what is defined by the auto industry.

You look up 'Buick' and it doesn't say 'luxury' or 'upscale'. It just says an 'American Auto Maker'.

You look up Infiniti and it says 'the luxury Division of Nissan' 'luxury automaker'.

I know it's subjective when it comes to certain brands.......but it is my belief that the auto industry easily seperate a 'luxury upscale brand' and a brand that have 'luxury upscale cars' along with 'economy' cars.

Sarlacc

You realize that BMW is NOT a "luxury auto maker" and Mercedes is NOT a luxury automaker.

They have high end luxury perception in the USA...but in Germany...they are just another car company with several "economy" vehicles on the market. Hell, Mercedes has an entire commercial Truck/Van division. And their histories were derived more from airplanes and racing than luxury.

Lexus started out as an entry level luxury car maker "ala" acura and blew up in to a full luxury automaker who took years to get to that real upper echelon level with its cars...and now, like others, others...is offering other vehicles in their line up that aren't necessarily luxury cars.

AZuser

achenator

Disagree with lexus being an "entry level luxury car maker". When the Ls400 (lexus first car) first hit the market it beat the snot out of the S class and 7 series.

Sarlacc

when lexus hit the scene it was the es250...they grew from there.

I learned to drive on, and loved, a 91 LS400

achenator

ES and LS both came out in 1989. My aunt had the first SC400 (91 I think) when I was a freshman in college. Man I loved that car. That was before the internet and it was rare to see a higher end car around here.

Sarlacc

While the LS hit big...I think it took the ES over a decade to be a true FWD luxe cruiser.

And while I love the LS...I think it took til the 3rd gen for it to really be a wonderfully appointed interior in competition with the Germans. Might even argue the 4th gen. IF you go back and look at the 1st ten LS interior today...while nice, its not as impressive as it was back in the day.

Chief F1 Fan

I disagree with any rationale that includes Acura, Kia, Hyundai, and Volvo. Having 1 high end model in the lineup does not make a manufacturer a luxury car maker. The RL is a glorified Accord, it doesn't ooze luxury, it oozes Japanese ergonomics and reliability. Kia? you have got to be kidding.