How would you rank the mainstream luxury/premium brands in America?
08-18-2014, 09:09 AM
#41
^ Agreed. I do agree with what Sarlacc wrote earlier... the Geneses and Equus are luxury models, but Hyundai is not a luxury brand. Same with the E900 and Kia.
I also agree that Porsche should not be included... same way Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. would not be in the conversation.
That said, my list would look pretty much exactly like Knight Rider's list above. The only difference in my list is that I would place Jaguar ahead of Buick.
I also agree that Porsche should not be included... same way Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. would not be in the conversation.
That said, my list would look pretty much exactly like Knight Rider's list above. The only difference in my list is that I would place Jaguar ahead of Buick.
08-18-2014, 01:04 PM
#42
For those of you stressing Buick is a luxury brand. I get it. I really do.
But according to sales figures.............Buick sold over 200,000 cars in 2013. That places them '4th' in the luxury auto rankings.
But I'm looking at a variety of 'luxury' brand rankings for 2013. And every single ranking from Forbes to Goodcarbadcar to various Auto organizations.........all have this
LUXURY CAR SALES
1-MERCEDES
2-BMW
3-LEXUS
4-CADILLAC
There is no Buick....in 4th place or anywhere on that list.
Of course some Buick cars are considered luxury, but as a brand it's not a luxury brand.
Acurazine say it is? Fine. Club Lexus say it is? Fine. BimmerPost say it is? Fine. The auto industry's luxury rankings and year end luxury sales charts say it's not.
Even other luxury car companies acknowledge Acura but don't acknowledge Buick.
From Lexus:
Lexus USA finishes the year with 273,847 sales, up 12.2% over 2012 and the best yearly total since 2007 — this puts the brand in third place behind a dominant Mercedes Benz and BMW that was unable to match the industry growth:
Mercedes: 334,344 total sales (up 13% over 2012)
BMW: 309,280 total sales (up 10% over 2012)
Lexus: 273,847 total sales (up 12% over 2012)
Cadillac: 182,543 total sales (up 22% over 2012)
If Buick was a 'luxury brand'.........that fourth spot should rightfully say 'Buick'.
Auto Industries would acknowledge them as a lux brand. They don't.
But according to sales figures.............Buick sold over 200,000 cars in 2013. That places them '4th' in the luxury auto rankings.
But I'm looking at a variety of 'luxury' brand rankings for 2013. And every single ranking from Forbes to Goodcarbadcar to various Auto organizations.........all have this
LUXURY CAR SALES
1-MERCEDES
2-BMW
3-LEXUS
4-CADILLAC
There is no Buick....in 4th place or anywhere on that list.
Of course some Buick cars are considered luxury, but as a brand it's not a luxury brand.
Acurazine say it is? Fine. Club Lexus say it is? Fine. BimmerPost say it is? Fine. The auto industry's luxury rankings and year end luxury sales charts say it's not.
Even other luxury car companies acknowledge Acura but don't acknowledge Buick.
From Lexus:
Lexus USA finishes the year with 273,847 sales, up 12.2% over 2012 and the best yearly total since 2007 — this puts the brand in third place behind a dominant Mercedes Benz and BMW that was unable to match the industry growth:
Mercedes: 334,344 total sales (up 13% over 2012)
BMW: 309,280 total sales (up 10% over 2012)
Lexus: 273,847 total sales (up 12% over 2012)
Cadillac: 182,543 total sales (up 22% over 2012)
If Buick was a 'luxury brand'.........that fourth spot should rightfully say 'Buick'.
Auto Industries would acknowledge them as a lux brand. They don't.
08-18-2014, 01:09 PM
#43
Please read my last post. Link me evidence that legit auto organizations and news organizations place Buick on the luxury sales rankings.
If Buick is a luxury brand......how come Wall Street, MotorTrend,Good Car Bad car, Forbes, USA Today, NY Times, LA Times don't have Buick ranked 4th for 2013 Luxury Brand sales in the US?
I'm not trying to be rude, but if people think Buick is a luxury brand..........Buick will be included in the year end Luxury sales figures. They are not.
Now you can pull out a variety of google links that says certain Buick cars are luxury. That doesn't make Buick a luxury brand to the auto organization's eyes.
Once again........if Buick was a Luxury Brand..........
Wall Street would have this list for 2013:
Luxury Car sales:
1-MERCEDES
2-BMW
3-LEXUS
4-BUICK
They don't. Instead they have
1-Mercedes
2-BMW
3-Lexus
4-Cadillac(sold less than Buick)
If Buick is a luxury brand......how come Wall Street, MotorTrend,Good Car Bad car, Forbes, USA Today, NY Times, LA Times don't have Buick ranked 4th for 2013 Luxury Brand sales in the US?
I'm not trying to be rude, but if people think Buick is a luxury brand..........Buick will be included in the year end Luxury sales figures. They are not.
Now you can pull out a variety of google links that says certain Buick cars are luxury. That doesn't make Buick a luxury brand to the auto organization's eyes.
Once again........if Buick was a Luxury Brand..........
Wall Street would have this list for 2013:
Luxury Car sales:
1-MERCEDES
2-BMW
3-LEXUS
4-BUICK
They don't. Instead they have
1-Mercedes
2-BMW
3-Lexus
4-Cadillac(sold less than Buick)
08-18-2014, 01:16 PM
#44
I get what some of you are saying. Buick make luxury cars. So technically they are a upscale luxury brand. But it's not defined as such. A proper luxury brand will be included in all year end economic debates and rankings charts when the subject of 'luxury cars' is brought up. Buick isn't included. Neither is Kia or Hyundai.
08-18-2014, 01:24 PM
#45
Rooting for Acura
iTrader: (1)
I think we're arguing perception here. Keep in mind that even the experts form (informed) opinions. Luxury is an abstraction. Do you always agree with experts? That sentence suggests that you should, but how many times have you loved a movie when the "expert" critics said it was not a good movie? I say Buick is a luxury brand because it is a second tier brand for GM, much like Lexus is for Toyota. I don't think we'll agree on this ever, but there are compelling arguments on both sides.
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08-18-2014, 02:06 PM
#47
I think we're arguing perception here. Keep in mind that even the experts form (informed) opinions. Luxury is an abstraction. Do you always agree with experts? That sentence suggests that you should, but how many times have you loved a movie when the "expert" critics said it was not a good movie? I say Buick is a luxury brand because it is a second tier brand for GM, much like Lexus is for Toyota. I don't think we'll agree on this ever, but there are compelling arguments on both sides.
What I don't get is... why do we need to agree? OP posts a topic asking everyone how they would rank luxury/premium brands, then proceeds to reply to almost every post saying why they're wrong. Then, he's posting graphs, charts, and links as to why their post is wrong. It's like Car Talk Stunna...Why ask for other people's opinions or have a discussion about this if no one else is entitled to have a different view point?
08-18-2014, 02:57 PM
#48
What I don't get is... why do we need to agree? OP posts a topic asking everyone how they would rank luxury/premium brands, then proceeds to reply to almost every post saying why they're wrong. Then, he's posting graphs, charts, and links as to why their post is wrong. It's like Car Talk Stunna...Why ask for other people's opinions or have a discussion about this if no one else is entitled to have a different view point?
I ask for opinions. Certain posters post theirs. I debate against them. They debate against me. We do this all with as much respect as we can. In a friendly but informative manner. That is the whole purpose of the forums is it not?
Or is forums like this:
What do you think about the new Mercedes C Class?
I like it.
I agree.
I think it's top of the class.
I agree.
I love it.
I agree.
I think it's going to be a great MPG car.
I agree.
I mean asking about the new Mercedes Class is asking for 'opinions' as well right? But the purpose of the forum is to refute the opinions you don't agree with.
08-18-2014, 03:00 PM
#49
But when it comes to Buick and 'proper luxury' brand. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
It is fact that none of the auto industry ranks Buick among Luxury Car Sales. That's a fact.
An opinion is this: Buicks are not as good as Acuras. That's an opinion.
I stated facts saying the auto industry does not rank Buick as a 'luxury' brand when it comes to sales figures.
It is fact that none of the auto industry ranks Buick among Luxury Car Sales. That's a fact.
An opinion is this: Buicks are not as good as Acuras. That's an opinion.
I stated facts saying the auto industry does not rank Buick as a 'luxury' brand when it comes to sales figures.
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08-18-2014, 05:00 PM
#52
Team Owner
i can see where this is going already.
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08-18-2014, 08:37 PM
#53
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Buicks are not luxury cars unless you're Amish and used to riding around in a horse-drawn buggy. Ditto Hyundai, Kia, Acura, Volvo, Infiniti/Lexus (near-luxury), and Range Rover to name a few. Buicks are built by the hundreds of thousands, on a huge production line. Putting lipstick on a pig (buick dressing up a Chevy-based platform) does not make it a beauty queen-it's still a pig (non-luxury car).
08-18-2014, 09:37 PM
#54
Rooting for Acura
iTrader: (1)
Buicks are not luxury cars unless you're Amish and used to riding around in a horse-drawn buggy. Ditto Hyundai, Kia, Acura, Volvo, Infiniti/Lexus (near-luxury), and Range Rover to name a few. Buicks are built by the hundreds of thousands, on a huge production line. Putting lipstick on a pig (buick dressing up a Chevy-based platform) does not make it a beauty queen-it's still a pig (non-luxury car).
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-c...e-buick-2013-4
Buick is a status symbol there, much like Lexus is here. Just because we don't see it as such doesn't mean that it isn't. I reiterate that it is all about perception.
08-18-2014, 10:09 PM
#55
The Third Ball
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Buicks are not luxury cars unless you're Amish and used to riding around in a horse-drawn buggy. Ditto Hyundai, Kia, Acura, Volvo, Infiniti/Lexus (near-luxury), and Range Rover to name a few. Buicks are built by the hundreds of thousands, on a huge production line. Putting lipstick on a pig (buick dressing up a Chevy-based platform) does not make it a beauty queen-it's still a pig (non-luxury car).
And you don't think Audi, BMW, et all aren't built by the thousands on an assembly line?
C'mon dude.
08-18-2014, 10:11 PM
#56
The Third Ball
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Yeah, because: China.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-c...e-buick-2013-4
Buick is a status symbol there, much like Lexus is here. Just because we don't see it as such doesn't mean that it isn't. I reiterate that it is all about perception.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-c...e-buick-2013-4
Buick is a status symbol there, much like Lexus is here. Just because we don't see it as such doesn't mean that it isn't. I reiterate that it is all about perception.
You guys living in a cave?
08-18-2014, 10:12 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
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08-18-2014, 10:29 PM
#58
08-18-2014, 11:23 PM
#59
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
For those who have placed Volvo on the list, how many are actually aware that Volvo was bought out by the Chinese company (Zhejiang Geely) back in 2010? Therefore, they are 100% Chinese owned, with all the implications attributed to such.
For what it's worth, does that impact your ranking of the brand? Not suggesting either way, but just curious.
For what it's worth, does that impact your ranking of the brand? Not suggesting either way, but just curious.
Maybe a slight niche market was a good term. And if you have sat in the new S80 or S60, you would see what I mean. A step above but maybe not full on luxury.
08-19-2014, 02:59 AM
#60
Team Owner
you know how to measure if a brand is a luxury brand?
Whatever brand that those rich young asian kids buy = luxury brand
Therefore Lexus is a luxury brand, however, they buy bmw/mercedes more.
Buick is big in China.. so are other American brands. However, when those rich Asian kids come to US, they still buy Lexus/BMW/Mercedes.
Ask me how i know....
Whatever brand that those rich young asian kids buy = luxury brand
Therefore Lexus is a luxury brand, however, they buy bmw/mercedes more.
Buick is big in China.. so are other American brands. However, when those rich Asian kids come to US, they still buy Lexus/BMW/Mercedes.
Ask me how i know....
08-19-2014, 03:36 AM
#61
I think the TLX will boost Acura pass Infiniti and Cadillac. The reviews have been overwhelmly positive and after test driving it in person........I gotta say it's a great deal. Audi going down market in the USA is probably not a good idea. A3 for 29 MSRP? What's next? A2 for 25 MSRP? What about an A1 for 20,000? I think they will go lower and lower simply to capture that market share.
08-19-2014, 04:15 AM
#62
The idea of a luxury car used to mean it was an exclusive car tailored to those with money.
Today luxury cars are far more common and easier to afford. Which would mean the idea of a luxury car has somewhat changed.
I have a friend at Mercedes that feels Mercedes is catering too much to the non exclusive market. His words, "CLAs are being leased for cheap and these new customers aren't even bringing the cars in for oil changes. This is what you get when an exclusive brand caters a non exclusive crowd."
So has luxury changed, has it been simplified and repackaged for easy sales or is merc and bmw losing their exclusivity.
That is to say that exclusivity is what makes a luxury brand. I'd say so.
Today luxury cars are far more common and easier to afford. Which would mean the idea of a luxury car has somewhat changed.
I have a friend at Mercedes that feels Mercedes is catering too much to the non exclusive market. His words, "CLAs are being leased for cheap and these new customers aren't even bringing the cars in for oil changes. This is what you get when an exclusive brand caters a non exclusive crowd."
So has luxury changed, has it been simplified and repackaged for easy sales or is merc and bmw losing their exclusivity.
That is to say that exclusivity is what makes a luxury brand. I'd say so.
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08-19-2014, 06:46 AM
#63
Rooting for Acura
iTrader: (1)
The idea of a luxury car used to mean it was an exclusive car tailored to those with money.
Today luxury cars are far more common and easier to afford. Which would mean the idea of a luxury car has somewhat changed.
I have a friend at Mercedes that feels Mercedes is catering too much to the non exclusive market. His words, "CLAs are being leased for cheap and these new customers aren't even bringing the cars in for oil changes. This is what you get when an exclusive brand caters a non exclusive crowd."
So has luxury changed, has it been simplified and repackaged for easy sales or is merc and bmw losing their exclusivity.
That is to say that exclusivity is what makes a luxury brand. I'd say so.
Today luxury cars are far more common and easier to afford. Which would mean the idea of a luxury car has somewhat changed.
I have a friend at Mercedes that feels Mercedes is catering too much to the non exclusive market. His words, "CLAs are being leased for cheap and these new customers aren't even bringing the cars in for oil changes. This is what you get when an exclusive brand caters a non exclusive crowd."
So has luxury changed, has it been simplified and repackaged for easy sales or is merc and bmw losing their exclusivity.
That is to say that exclusivity is what makes a luxury brand. I'd say so.
08-19-2014, 10:37 AM
#65
Rooting for Acura
iTrader: (1)
It is not only a status symbol. I rank Lexus among the truly luxury brands. I was just stating that Lexus is a status symbol, like any other luxury brand auto, or big house or nice watch for that matter.
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Sarlacc (08-19-2014)
08-20-2014, 08:22 AM
#66
Not Registered
Most manufactures make a luxury model, as discussed here, but they are no true mainstream luxury brands IMO. Only two "brands" come to mind worldwide and that's Rolls Royce and Bentley. All other mainstream makes have a luxury model, but like said offer basic lower priced models.
08-20-2014, 03:59 PM
#71
Moderator
So, I just have to ask, given who the OP was (and that he's been banned...again) why is this thread still going?
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RPhilMan1 (08-21-2014)
08-20-2014, 04:59 PM
#73
Moderator
08-21-2014, 09:08 AM
#75
Senior Moderator
08-21-2014, 10:47 AM
#76
Moderator
I should have put my post in red text, sorry.
08-21-2014, 11:34 AM
#78
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
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RPhilMan1 (08-22-2014)
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