zeta

iTrader: (1)

If you think Acura/Honda had issues with their defective tranny's, check this out.

I just completed one of these repairs on my mother's 2001 Olds Alero with 49,150 miles.

http://d-tips.com/General/Articles/a...sket/art10.art

Went to three authorized GM dealers in my area and received an average cost estimate of $840 for this repair.

I decided to DIY, and saved about 83% of what a dealer would have charged.
FEL-PRO #ms98003T {gasket set};
ACDELCO #217461 seal kit, f/injn fuel rl; $91.06
Permatex Ultra Black Hi-Temp RTV silicone; 6.40
GTX 5QT Motor oil & puralator filter
Dex cool antifreeze; 25.61
Push Rod Remover Tool (LIS48500) 22.47
$145.54

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1...hrod_tool.html

Takeing my time, it took one day to label and tear down to the LIM, one day to clean up the dex cool and oil goo all over the lower intake; valve covers, upper intake plenum ect; one day to reassemble.

Best part about it was that it cranked-up on the first try.


Gonna try to get a wopping $50 dollars back on a claim regarding this class action law suit settlement.

http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html#faq_1

Anyone else been touched by this GM-Dex cool Cluster fawk

dom

I know a few people, (co-workers, relatives) Its about a $1200 repair up here. In one case $3k since coloant went into the block.

Had a 3.4 myself but got rid of it with about 80K km's on the odo.

bigman

What does that have to do with Hondas tranny's. Honda's transmissions were way worse of a problem. My TL downshifted at 70 to 2nd almost causing me to get creamed from behind. That problem with the 3.4 is common on certain engines, not all. It's an easy fix for any gear head. The only thing is that its time consuming so it costs a pretty penny.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=bigman]What does that have to do with Hondas tranny's. Honda's transmissions were way worse of a problem. My TL downshifted at 70 to 2nd almost causing me to get creamed from behind.[QUOTE]

The comparison I was attempting to make was in relation to how large a problem this was, like with Acura's tranny issue. Dude, I don't envy your sudden downshift mishap, in fact it's a dam shame just like this issue. However, if you look at the broad range of GM vehicles that have had this problem, it's just a large hassle/expense that people have to deal with if it happens to them.

How many tens of thousands of these cars were manufactured for the regular folk that buy these brands? To them, it's a big deal to dish out hundreds of dollars to repair a defect that should not have been.

1995-2003 3.1 & 3.4 V6-Buick Century, Rendezvous, Regal, Skylark
Chevrolet Impala, Lumina, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Venture, Corsica, Beretta, Lumina APV; Oldsmobile Alero, Cutlass (Supreme and Ciera), Silhouette Pontiac Aztek, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Montana, Trans Sport

1995-2004 3.8 V6-Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal, Riviera
Chevrolet Camaro, Impala, Lumina, Monte Carlo
Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, Intrigue, LSS, Ninety-Eight
Pontiac Bonneville, Firebird, Grand Prix

1995-2000 4.3 v6-Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet S-10
GMC Envoy, Jimmy, S-15
Oldsmobile Bravada

SodaLuvr

The difference is that once the FEL-PRO kit is installed, the gasket is likely to outlast the vehicle. Once the gasket problem is fixed, the 3.4 is bulletproof.

However, these older GM vehicles are hardly reliable. Have fun with the water pump, heater core, alternator (Delco ones are junk), etc.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Yes sir, you are correct, the FEL-PRO kit is made of stamped metal with the molded rubber gasket configuration around the intake ports and water jacket openings. When I removed the old original GM gasket, the thing practically broke to pieces in my hands. When I opened the FEL-PRO gasket kit and first observed the new gasket, it was like hell yes! This is top quality.

All of the other forums covering these cars and this issue recommended using the FEL-PRO kit over the updated OEM kit because there where individuals who had had their car repaired at steelerships and they began to leak again

So far, the water pump, heater core, alternator have held up

SodaLuvr

Wow, really? I thought the updated GM kit was just as good as the FEL-PRO kit by Federal-Mogul. I have noticed that ever since GM switched to the updated kit on the 04 and newer GM 3.4 and 3.5 (LX9), there have been virtually no intake gasket leaks.

dom

Co-worker with a 01 Grand Am (220K km's) just did his 3rd gasket repair. How long has this FEL-PRO kit been available?

SodaLuvr

Early 2005.

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/defau...e=art&id=73486

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Yea, the updated torque sequence for the lower intake manifold is very important now as well. Some of the info. regarding this was confusing, differing between the Haynes manual and the tsb for this repair. I found after torqueing the four center LIM bolts to 62 in/lbs during the first pass and the four outer LIM bolts the same 62 in/lbs that the four center bolts had loosened somewhat. Then after torqueing the center bolts to 115 in/lbs on the second pass and the outer bolts to 115 the center bolts had loosened ever so slightly again. I thought my torque wrench was clapped; however, it is just a common occurence with these manifolds. Then, after all of the bolts had a good torque of 115 in/lbs, you are supposed to torque the outer 4 bolts (two on each side) down to 18 ft/lbs. Anyway, that's what I did to make sure this thing was on. Seems to have worked great! No leaks so far.

In addition, what I did to insure the best possible seal at the end ridges between the heads was to put a cut piece of thin gasket material sandwiched between two separate layers of RTV when it came time to drop it all in (LIM). One other guy mentioned this on another forum and said it worked well for him. A bit of overkill, but I'll take it, rather then do this BS again.

fsttyms1

Been there replaced one on my grand parents lumina.

alerobasher

Hi,
I know this thread is quite old now, but I am facing the same dilemma that you did with regard to a leaking intake manifold gasket. My question is; are you a mechanic? Do you think that this is a task that someone like myself could attempt given that I have some mechanical knowledge?
Also, are there any surprises I should be aware of when I start pulling the hoses etc off the engine.
I would be very grateful for any help or advice you may have to offer.
Thanks.

fsttyms1

You can tackle this project yourself. Its not terribly difficult. Just have the new gaskets on hand, a liquid gasket and coolant to refill after the job is done.

Oh and old shop rags and oildry/cat litter(for the floor) to absorb any coolant that comes out.

alerobasher

thanks. I appreciate the info. All the repair shops make it sound like you are about to embark on some intrepid major journey filled will peril lol.

Rounder

This happened to my old buick, it was leaking coolant, and the car was overheating, until there was no more coolant at all, and it had a leak in the intake manifold, so I had to get it fixed, and it was expensive.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=alerobasher;10279765 My question is; are you a mechanic?[/QUOTE]
Not by trade. I sit behind a computer all day and analyze spreadsheets in order to post complex journal entries.

Certainly. First buy an inexpensive 'Haynes' repair manual for your make and model GM car. The detail may be sparse; however, it will provide enough info. to get'er done.

Before starting the repair, turn your heater dial all the way on. This will help bleed the air out of the cooling system when you go to refill.

Label all hose/vacuum connections to expedite reassembly. In my case, this was the single most important step which enabled the car to fire up on the first try with no problems.

Beware of the fuel rail o-rings upon disconnection, they tend to pop out (get lost) and/or shred.

Keep all of your intake and exhaust push rods in the order of disassembly. They are different lengths and you DO NOT want to reinstall them incorrectly.

Do the repair over a few days if possible. Your back will thank you later. In addition, perform a 'dry run' of placing the LIM on the motor with gaskets in place to help orient yourself to the procedure before final assembly. It's important to place the LIM in the right spot the first time to avoid 'sliding' it side to side to insert/align the LIM bolts when the RTV has been applied..

Apply a healthy bead of RTV on the end ridges. Also apply some RTV just under the new gasket right at the distal edge where the gasket meets the end ridge. Leaks tend to occur there if not properly sealed.

I replaced the thermostat and the oil driveshft o-ring while the access was easy.

The four LIM end bolts on the 3.4 V6 (two on the pulley side;two on the thermostat side) are difficult to torque without a metric 'crows foot' set. Northern Tool has a cheap set available.

Use the updated torque sequence. The FELPRO gasket set I received included one. Spend the extra money and get the FELPRO kit.

The pushrod tool helped tremendously, but is no necessary.

Good luck.

S A CHO

We did it on our Grand Prix by choice at 100,000 km's only as preventitive measures. Now the car has been running like a champ and currently has 394,000km's... Granted our car is the 3.8L it still has the faimed lower intake manifold gasket problems.

BTW GM has issued a service bulletin on this. They refunded us our $240.00 that it cost in parts. See if a dealer will do the same. Provide all reciepts.

alerobasher

I am looking forward to getting this started as soon as my new torque wrench arrives along with the gasket set.

Thanks for all the useful info, and I look forward to seeing your comments about my questions.

Adrian.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Fuel rail o-rings: You can try to leave these connected; however, the Haynes manual (#38026) I used had this (fuel rail disconnection) as a step in the section for the LIM removal.

End ridges: Yes, this is the 'S' shaped areas on each side that will receive the RTV for sealing the LIM ends to the engine.

'Oil pump drive' shaft o-ring: This is the circular looking cap, held in place by a two prong fork with a single bolt. It's on the thermostat side of the 3.4 V6, right next to the end ridge. You will not miss it, but it's difficult to see unless you have the upper & lower IM's removed. Oil was leaking at this location, so I changed the o-ring. I called my local GM dealer and asked them for 'the o-ring that goes on the oil pump drive shaft' for my 02 Alero and they hooked me up. Sorry, don't have the part #. Basically, it's the old distributor shaft location before they went with electronic ignition. If yours is not leaking oil, don't bother with it.

Crows foot wrenches:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...m_ite=handtool
This is where I got mine.

Make sure you clean all gasket and RTV mateing surfaces thoroughly with acetone to insure proper adhesion/sealing.

alerobasher

Well, I am pleased to say that I started this repair on the weekend (last Saturday) and just got the car back together today (Tuesday).
I really took my time and found that labeling each wire etc was so very helpful in expediting the reassembly.
The whole thing was a complete success and I am relieved that I actually undertook the task myself. I don't think a repair shop would have taken the time to clean every surface, prep the engine etc before putting it back together as I did.
All in all I have to say a big thank you to you all for your help and advice. It's not a task that I would want to have to do again, but it wasn't as daunting as I had expected it to be and could do it again comfortably.
Thanks,
Adrian

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Congrats, I know I had a big smile on my face when the car fired on the first try. Gave myself a pat on the back for saving $695 and knowing the job was done right.

BTW, How did you handle the pushrod removal step?

Be sure to monitor the coolant level for the first 50-100 miles or so.

For the first time, I took my mothers Alero on a 200 mile trip the other day and it performed with no issues. Actually it achieved a better mpg (32mpg at 75mph) then my S/C'd CLS-6 (28 to 29mpg at 75mph). Go figure. I ran the tires with a little more pressure, so that helped.

Peace

YeuEmMaiMai

lol the problem is the coolant.....i wonder how the J series that GM uses with that crappy coolant are going to hold up........honda specificially states do not use that crap with their engines.......

achenator

Wow, my wife had a Venture that had this done back in 2003. We had a mechanic friend do it. I had no idea that this was such a widespread problem. Shortly after this repair, we dumped the Venture for an Ody.

alerobasher

I used the push rod removal tool that I paid about $20 for including shipping. Made things very simple. Also I had to take the car on a trip about 130 miles each way, and it performed flawlessly. The coolant levels havent budged after the first couple of short trips (primarily because I guess all the air was still getting burped out of the system). Now, about 700 miles later. The engine has no signs of coolant leakage, and no oil/coolant sludge on the outside of the motor where it used to be prevalent before the repair.