General Car Talk Discussion Thread
10-29-2018, 08:38 PM
Ex-OEM King
I still don't get how it's smoother. The lurch you feel isn't the disengagement of the clutch or the action of moving from gear to neutral, it's the act of letting off the gas, engaging the clutch, and getting back on it.
10-30-2018, 12:07 AM
What do you know Sam, your only Manuel car is probably in hibernation for half a year 
You're right, the lurch isn't from the clutch disengaging necessarily.
Just try it, damn it.
Or not, idc. I'll try the standard way, it's been a while. Maybe I learned incorrectly to begin with
You're right, the lurch isn't from the clutch disengaging necessarily.
Just try it, damn it.
Or not, idc. I'll try the standard way, it's been a while. Maybe I learned incorrectly to begin with
10-30-2018, 12:17 AM
If it works for you with no problems after a decade, I guess continue doing it if it's more comfortable for you. 
Just seems highly counter-intuitive from the way I think we all expect.
Just seems highly counter-intuitive from the way I think we all expect.
10-30-2018, 10:00 AM
Moderator
I understand what he's saying, right when you are off the throttle, the shifter will easily drop into neutral. Once engine braking starts, you definitely would have to add some force to get it into neutral.
Never thought to drive that way, just seems faster to do it all in 1 motion
but whatever works, I suppose.
Never thought to drive that way, just seems faster to do it all in 1 motion
but whatever works, I suppose.
10-30-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dom
Granny shifting, not double-clutching like you should.
10-30-2018, 10:54 AM
Ex-OEM King
What do you know Sam, your only Manuel car is probably in hibernation for half a year
You're right, the lurch isn't from the clutch disengaging necessarily.
Just try it, damn it.
Or not, idc. I'll try the standard way, it's been a while. Maybe I learned incorrectly to begin with
You're right, the lurch isn't from the clutch disengaging necessarily.
Just try it, damn it.
Or not, idc. I'll try the standard way, it's been a while. Maybe I learned incorrectly to begin with
In any case, I'll try it. Need to take the S2000 for it's last tank of gas before hibernation anyway.
And swap the snow tires onto the Golf.
10-30-2018, 01:08 PM
Team Owner
I'm the only person here that does it this way? 
Just some clarifications...
There should never be higher than normal resistance when getting into or out of gear. Should pull out of gear with a finger or two.
Your clutch pedal should pass the catch point completely before the shifter goes into the next gate.
And i hope you dont drive like that on the track, especially the big turns where requires 1 up shift.
I basically only do the into neutral thing without the clutch during braking or immediately after lifting off the gas completely. Again, it should feel very natural.
I still clutch in to go N when coasting in traffic. You will feel the resistance when the drivetrain isn't unloaded.
If you aren't weetoddid and it's done correctly, it will be much easier to drive smoothly.
Just some clarifications...
There should never be higher than normal resistance when getting into or out of gear. Should pull out of gear with a finger or two.
Your clutch pedal should pass the catch point completely before the shifter goes into the next gate.
And i hope you dont drive like that on the track, especially the big turns where requires 1 up shift.
I basically only do the into neutral thing without the clutch during braking or immediately after lifting off the gas completely. Again, it should feel very natural.
I still clutch in to go N when coasting in traffic. You will feel the resistance when the drivetrain isn't unloaded.
If you aren't weetoddid and it's done correctly, it will be much easier to drive smoothly.
I hope you dont drive like that on the track, especially the turns that require 1 upshift.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 10-30-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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RPhilMan1 (10-30-2018)
10-30-2018, 01:21 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
10-30-2018, 08:52 PM
Moderator
So, this article is actually about the concept RDX Acura brought to SEMA, but this particular statement jumps out in such a huge way that I thought I'd link it here: https://jalopnik.com/this-boring-acu...ron-1830096933
This might be one of the best summaries of what I have been feeling since the 4G TL came out.
It’s not that Acura is a company that’s about making “bad” cars, per se. But Acura is a company for people who have secured their place firmly in the lower middle management of life, and are content never budging from that position. It makes cars for people who have done okay in life, and that’s fine, and maybe they want to treat themselves, but they can’t sacrifice things like reliability or practicality for anything crazy like “fun” or “so help me God I am so bored I could die.”
It’s a car for people who, when they’re feeling really crazy, reach for the Diet Sierra Mist. Every night. And every night, at dinner, which they’ve cooked at home, they always make sure there’s a salad, and when their spouse reaches for the stash of Little Bites brownies in the back of the pantry in their all-white kitchen, they say, “you sure you should be eating that?”
That is who Acuras are made for.
(The NSX is excepted from this rant, by the way. It is a blessed machine of light and being, and is like nothing else that Acura makes. Also, historic Acuras are not included here. We’re talking about Acura in the here and now.)
And this world is full of people like that. There are millions, if not billions of people in this world, who aspire to nothing more than that. It’s a nice life. It’s a comfortable life. It’s a safe life.
It’s a car for people who, when they’re feeling really crazy, reach for the Diet Sierra Mist. Every night. And every night, at dinner, which they’ve cooked at home, they always make sure there’s a salad, and when their spouse reaches for the stash of Little Bites brownies in the back of the pantry in their all-white kitchen, they say, “you sure you should be eating that?”
That is who Acuras are made for.
(The NSX is excepted from this rant, by the way. It is a blessed machine of light and being, and is like nothing else that Acura makes. Also, historic Acuras are not included here. We’re talking about Acura in the here and now.)
And this world is full of people like that. There are millions, if not billions of people in this world, who aspire to nothing more than that. It’s a nice life. It’s a comfortable life. It’s a safe life.
Last edited by ttribe; 10-31-2018 at 01:53 PM.
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10-30-2018, 09:05 PM
Senior Moderator
So, this article is actually about the concept RDX Acura brought to SEMA, but this particular statement jumps out in such a huge way that I thought I'd link it here: https://jalopnik.com/this-boring-acu...ron-1830096933
This might be one of the best summaries of what I have been feeling since the 4G TL came out.
This might be one of the best summaries of what I have been feeling since the 4G TL came out.
Last edited by Yumcha; 10-30-2018 at 09:07 PM.
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kurtatx (10-30-2018)
10-31-2018, 11:22 AM
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10-31-2018, 12:55 PM
2024 Honda Civic Type R
basically only do the into neutral thing without the clutch during braking or immediately after lifting off the gas completely. Again, it should feel very natural.
I still clutch in to go N when coasting in traffic. You will feel the resistance when the drivetrain isn't unloaded.
I still clutch in to go N when coasting in traffic. You will feel the resistance when the drivetrain isn't unloaded.
Thanks for the different experience, but it doesn't feel natural to me.
10-31-2018, 01:04 PM
Turd Polisher
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I tried this in my Fit / S4 ... I definitely get more resistance pushing it out of gear to neutral versus having the clutch in. Load or unloaded.
I'll carry on as I normally do.
I'll carry on as I normally do.
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RPhilMan1 (10-31-2018)
10-31-2018, 01:14 PM
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Thread Starter
better get an extended warranty to go along with that shift without clutch technique...........
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RPhilMan1 (10-31-2018)
10-31-2018, 03:47 PM
Team Owner
so, this article is actually about the concept rdx acura brought to sema, but this particular statement jumps out in such a huge way that i thought i'd link it here: https://jalopnik.com/this-boring-acu...ron-1830096933
this might be one of the best summaries of what i have been feelingsince the 4g tl came out.about saintor and ssftsx
this might be one of the best summaries of what i have been feeling
10-31-2018, 03:51 PM
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10-31-2018, 07:35 PM
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In college with my '83 Corolla, I was waiting for someone to get ready to go somewhere and played around with clutchless shifting. It's possible to start from a dead stop in neutral and shift into 1-2-3-4-5 without the clutch. It's also possible to go backwards through the pattern without the clutch.
Gentle hands and patience.
Gentle hands and patience.
11-01-2018, 11:40 AM
Moderator
All about knowing which RPM in which gear things mesh together properly.
I did it a few times with my '97 Civic, but it's much much slower than using the clutch if you don't know it really well.
11-01-2018, 02:07 PM
Team Owner
so basically... WHY?????
11-01-2018, 02:43 PM
Moderator
11-01-2018, 02:57 PM
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what better way to burn up things faster.....just cause you can doesn't mean you should
11-01-2018, 03:56 PM
Team Owner
I was under the impression that it is regular to drive like that in an 18 wheeler.
11-01-2018, 04:12 PM
I'm weird I guess. I usually downshift through the gears as I come to a stop too. I feel like it's safer. Plus I like the way engine braking sounds 
And yes, I have driven like this on the track and autocross. Have never needed to change my clutch, throwout bearing, etc.
I'm really careful about unnecessary wear. Don't even run a weighted shift knob so I can feel the shifts better.
I tried driving the normal way and didn't really notice a difference as far as resistance. But it's cool that you guys tried it!
And yes, I have driven like this on the track and autocross. Have never needed to change my clutch, throwout bearing, etc.
I'm really careful about unnecessary wear. Don't even run a weighted shift knob so I can feel the shifts better.
I tried driving the normal way and didn't really notice a difference as far as resistance. But it's cool that you guys tried it!
11-01-2018, 04:15 PM
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I knew about this when I started driving my first manual car Mazdaspeed3. Didn't understand the point of doing it so never did it.
11-01-2018, 04:31 PM
Team Owner
I'm weird I guess. I usually downshift through the gears as I come to a stop too. I feel like it's safer. Plus I like the way engine braking sounds
And yes, I have driven like this on the track and autocross. Have never needed to change my clutch, throwout bearing, etc.
I'm really careful about unnecessary wear. Don't even run a weighted shift knob so I can feel the shifts better.
I tried driving the normal way and didn't really notice a difference as far as resistance. But it's cool that you guys tried it!
And yes, I have driven like this on the track and autocross. Have never needed to change my clutch, throwout bearing, etc.
I'm really careful about unnecessary wear. Don't even run a weighted shift knob so I can feel the shifts better.
I tried driving the normal way and didn't really notice a difference as far as resistance. But it's cool that you guys tried it!
I'm a whore for rev matching. It's 98% of the reason I drive a manual. I use the engine to always brake the car.
I also go through every gear when slowing down. I don't skip a gear going up or down, even if coming to a complete stop. I absolutely love it, each and every time.
11-01-2018, 04:33 PM
Turd Polisher
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I generally go into neutral when coming to a stop unless I know the light will turn green and I continue on my way by shifting into the appropriate gear.
BUT ... If my exhaust was louder, I'd be more inclined to downshift every gear
BUT ... If my exhaust was louder, I'd be more inclined to downshift every gear
11-01-2018, 04:37 PM
Team Owner
I just do it to be easy on my transmission. That, along with GMSMFM, I haven't grinded a gear in a very long time. I know it's not necessary, but that notchiness of a Honda 6MT shifter is to die for.
11-01-2018, 04:46 PM
Turd Polisher
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I generally try to mix it up, If I'm feeling a bit more spirited I'll downshift and revmatch for fun
Generally speaking, I don't downshift through each gear on every stop as it increases wear / lifespan on the slave cylinder, throwout bearing, pressure plate, clutch disk, flywheel, and synchros.
Generally speaking, I don't downshift through each gear on every stop as it increases wear / lifespan on the slave cylinder, throwout bearing, pressure plate, clutch disk, flywheel, and synchros.
11-01-2018, 04:56 PM
Team Owner
All original on my car, and still going strong at over 120k miles
Actually I replaced my CMC, but that was before I started driving like this. Nothing else has been changed
Actually I replaced my CMC, but that was before I started driving like this. Nothing else has been changed
11-01-2018, 04:57 PM
Team Owner
It protects your synchros as your engine speed is right where it should be. It's smaller rpm jumps, too. if done right it should preserve them, if anything.
11-01-2018, 04:58 PM
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I too enjoy the ol' rev match downshifting. Give the ol' left paddle that tap-tap-tap action. Rrrrr-rrrr-rrrr. So cherry.
11-01-2018, 04:59 PM
Moderator
My only problem with neutral coasting to a stop, is if you suddenly need to be in gear to avoid a collision or something of the sort, you add in extra time to get in gear (1-2 seconds maybe) to an avoidance scenario.
11-01-2018, 05:20 PM
Team Owner
I'm weird I guess. I usually downshift through the gears as I come to a stop too. I feel like it's safer. Plus I like the way engine braking sounds
And yes, I have driven like this on the track and autocross. Have never needed to change my clutch, throwout bearing, etc.
I'm really careful about unnecessary wear. Don't even run a weighted shift knob so I can feel the shifts better.
I tried driving the normal way and didn't really notice a difference as far as resistance. But it's cool that you guys tried it!
And yes, I have driven like this on the track and autocross. Have never needed to change my clutch, throwout bearing, etc.
I'm really careful about unnecessary wear. Don't even run a weighted shift knob so I can feel the shifts better.
I tried driving the normal way and didn't really notice a difference as far as resistance. But it's cool that you guys tried it!
You downshift from 2nd to 1st coming to a stop?
I mean we all do that, but the entire sequence of downshifting? If i was in 6th, i would down shift to 5th and 4th then to neutral once it gets very slow. I never do the entire sequence
Last edited by oonowindoo; 11-01-2018 at 05:22 PM.
11-01-2018, 05:28 PM
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
I'm saying why do you have to downshift every single gear coming to a stop, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, etc ... seems like a waste of energy / component life if you're inevitably going to a stop anyways.
My point being, if you know you're coming to a full stop .. pulling the gear lever to Neutral and using your brakes is less wear on your drivetrain / transmission than cycling all the gears to "preserve" your synchros.
It really depends on the scenario ... I like being in gear when possible / when it makes sense to me.
11-01-2018, 05:29 PM
Turd Polisher
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:ricer: If you had an exhaust, i know exactly who you are....
You downshift from 2nd to 1st coming to a stop?
I mean we all do that, but the entire sequence of downshifting? If i was in 6th, i would down shift to 5th and 4th then to neutral once it gets very slow. I never do the entire sequence
You downshift from 2nd to 1st coming to a stop?
I mean we all do that, but the entire sequence of downshifting? If i was in 6th, i would down shift to 5th and 4th then to neutral once it gets very slow. I never do the entire sequence
11-01-2018, 05:35 PM
Team Owner
Rev matching certainly preserves your synchros in a downshifting scenario, yes.
I'm saying why do you have to downshift every single gear coming to a stop, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, etc ... seems like a waste of energy / component life if you're inevitably going to a stop anyways.
My point being, if you know you're coming to a full stop .. pulling the gear lever to Neutral and using your brakes is less wear on your drivetrain / transmission than cycling all the gears to "preserve" your synchros.
This is true.
It really depends on the scenario ... I like being in gear when possible / when it makes sense to me.
I'm saying why do you have to downshift every single gear coming to a stop, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, etc ... seems like a waste of energy / component life if you're inevitably going to a stop anyways.
My point being, if you know you're coming to a full stop .. pulling the gear lever to Neutral and using your brakes is less wear on your drivetrain / transmission than cycling all the gears to "preserve" your synchros.
This is true.
It really depends on the scenario ... I like being in gear when possible / when it makes sense to me.
All I know is I would get the occasional grind if I drove otherwise. Doesn't seem to happen at all anymore... And this is through all driving scenarios, not just coming to a light. I wouldn't be surprised if I could get ten years use out of my brake pads like this
11-01-2018, 05:38 PM
Team Owner
I know you're not supposed to shift down into first, because it doesn't have a synchro. But you can do it if you blip the throttle and match the engine speed. I do that maybe like once a month or something. Maybe less. No real reason why.
11-01-2018, 05:43 PM
Turd Polisher
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11-01-2018, 06:17 PM
Team Owner
I hope so... but depends on speed, i never go it in neutral if the car is going 40 mph in 6th or so... it feels "naked" if u know what i mean.
So i would always downshift 1 or 2 gears depends on speed and cruise to a stop after that.
I thought that is what most of the people do... unless you are on a track, then you should never be in Netural. I did and i spun out
So i would always downshift 1 or 2 gears depends on speed and cruise to a stop after that.
I thought that is what most of the people do... unless you are on a track, then you should never be in Netural. I did and i spun out
11-01-2018, 06:19 PM
Team Owner
Yes you can do it... i have done it a few times in very rarely situations where 2nd gear was choking (s2000 has no torque), so i kinda had to go in to 1st from 2nd. It can be done but felt very wrong.