To the Ford engineers..........
10-29-2010, 09:52 PM
#41
10-30-2010, 08:02 AM
#42
AZ Community Team
Helped a friend in college tune-up his Maverick V8, took us hours to replace the 2 right rear plugs which were Autolites. The other 6 were Champions. We wondered from the worn electrodes and OEM brand if they were the original plugs.
10-30-2010, 10:20 AM
#43
and if anybody wants to complain about something, try a starter on a 1st gen (abou 1990 to 1996) Nissan pathfinder with the 3.0 motor, disconnecting it, and unbolting is like an hour maybe, but getting it out of the truck/chassis itself is pain in the ass itself (couple of hours to try and figure out how it has to come out EXACTLY between the body/wheelwell [which has to be bent a little anyways for clearence] and the frame/shock tower
10-30-2010, 11:29 AM
#44
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
I've heard that they were a real pain. If they were worn Autolites, they probably were originals. Throughout the years guys have stuffed 390s and 428s in the Maverick's engine bay. THAT would make for an interesting plug change.
10-30-2010, 11:32 AM
#45
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
10-31-2010, 07:37 AM
#46
AZ Community Team
10-31-2010, 07:55 AM
#47
Is this the Maverick you guys are talking about? Looks fun...
This is the LT1 F-Body engine bay:
oh and just for kicks.... one of my auto instructors who is a big Ford fan, swore off of Hondas for the rest of his life because of his experience with vacuum lines in his Honda a LONG time ago
This is the LT1 F-Body engine bay:
oh and just for kicks.... one of my auto instructors who is a big Ford fan, swore off of Hondas for the rest of his life because of his experience with vacuum lines in his Honda a LONG time ago
10-31-2010, 08:19 AM
#48
AZ Community Team
In the 70's the Japanese automakers perfected the art of analog computers using vacuum instead of electrons 
Also liked how Toyota, Datson, and Honda all numbered the actual vacuum lines. Made it alot easier to reassemble after taking everything apart.
Also liked how Toyota, Datson, and Honda all numbered the actual vacuum lines. Made it alot easier to reassemble after taking everything apart.
10-31-2010, 12:04 PM
#49
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I remember that!I "only" had a problem with the 1st plug nearest the firewall in the one bank on my dad's 302 V8 Maverick. The other seven plugs would take a few minutes with a couple of extensions and a flexi joint on the ratchet wrench, but that last plug was a pain.
I may not have changed that plug more than twice in 6+ years, although I tuned the (rest of) the car at least once a year.
OTOH, that's better than Chevy Monzas with the 350 V8 option, which required removing engine mounts and dropping the engine to get at the plugs.
Hopefully Terry's situation of having to remove every accessory and drive to remove the valve covers won't be an annual task!
10-31-2010, 09:50 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
Oh and the ford 3v plugs. The idiot that designed this plug should be shot
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=spark+plug
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=spark+plug
Has any one tried replacing plugs on one of those motors yet??? It is quite possibly one of the dumbest or ill thought out designs ive ever encountered. I helped a friend last night and we both wish we had never started. Plug changes should be a simple procedure, not on these motors. There is a WHOLE procedure just for loosening the plug so that the stupid design doesnt break off in the head (which 2 did) that ford had to design a tool to remove(thats not cheap) . We talked to the local ford dealer which just shook their head because they have been dealing with this for some time now said they would remove the 2 broken plugs for 50 bucks.
Said goofy plug (in red is what snaps off in the cyl head, blue is where it snaps off from) should have been made in 1 piece instead of 2 piece(yes the lower metal piece is seperate from the upper threaded area)
Said goofy plug (in red is what snaps off in the cyl head, blue is where it snaps off from) should have been made in 1 piece instead of 2 piece(yes the lower metal piece is seperate from the upper threaded area)
10-31-2010, 10:03 PM
#51
Oh and the ford 3v plugs. The idiot that designed this plug should be shot
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=spark+plug
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=spark+plug
11-01-2010, 06:58 AM
#52
AZ Community Team
I remember that!I "only" had a problem with the 1st plug nearest the firewall in the one bank on my dad's 302 V8 Maverick. The other seven plugs would take a few minutes with a couple of extensions and a flexi joint on the ratchet wrench, but that last plug was a pain.
I may not have changed that plug more than twice in 6+ years, although I tuned the (rest of) the car at least once a year.
OTOH, that's better than Chevy Monzas with the 350 V8 option, which required removing engine mounts and dropping the engine to get at the plugs.
Hopefully Terry's situation of having to remove every accessory and drive to remove the valve covers won't be an annual task!
It was all stock and was pretty quick as well, pretty decent transportation for college in the early 80's.
11-01-2010, 07:01 AM
#53
AZ Community Team
Yeah, that looks like the Maverick and it also had A/C as welll.
Wow, the LT1 looks really tight. Another friend had a 86 IROC 5.7 with port injection and I remember it being more open in the engine bay than that.
Wow, the LT1 looks really tight. Another friend had a 86 IROC 5.7 with port injection and I remember it being more open in the engine bay than that.
Is this the Maverick you guys are talking about? Looks fun...
This is the LT1 F-Body engine bay:
oh and just for kicks.... one of my auto instructors who is a big Ford fan, swore off of Hondas for the rest of his life because of his experience with vacuum lines in his Honda a LONG time ago
This is the LT1 F-Body engine bay:
oh and just for kicks.... one of my auto instructors who is a big Ford fan, swore off of Hondas for the rest of his life because of his experience with vacuum lines in his Honda a LONG time ago
11-02-2010, 02:16 PM
#54
S E L L
Oh and the ford 3v plugs. The idiot that designed this plug should be shot
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=spark+plug
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=spark+plug
Seems like a couple small spot-welds on the new plugs would do the trick and keep the parts from separating.
11-02-2010, 07:01 PM
#56
Senior Moderator
Part of it is the plug being a 2 piece. Some of the newer plugs are 1 piece to help eliminate it. If you put anti-seize on the un threaded part it helps.
11-02-2010, 07:20 PM
#57
ps, a one-piece design elminates any sort of need for additional welds
11-02-2010, 07:25 PM
#58
I'm Craig
iTrader: (2)
Speaking of Econoline vans, I was driving a couple cars behind one a few days ago when the entire rear left wheel decided to go on vacation and flew across four lanes of traffic to the other side of the road. I'm shocked that there wasn't an accident.
/cool story.
/cool story.
04-08-2011, 12:44 AM
#60
Terry,
I am looking at possibly purchasing a 2010 E350, would you steer me the other way? I am scared now after reading this thread. Are the 2010's easier to work on? It seems that way with the longer hood?
I found one that is pretty clean with 9k, running boards, tinted glass, rear sensor xlt for 19k. What is your opinion on it?
I am looking at possibly purchasing a 2010 E350, would you steer me the other way? I am scared now after reading this thread. Are the 2010's easier to work on? It seems that way with the longer hood?
I found one that is pretty clean with 9k, running boards, tinted glass, rear sensor xlt for 19k. What is your opinion on it?
04-08-2011, 12:55 AM
#61
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Terry,
I am looking at possibly purchasing a 2010 E350, would you steer me the other way? I am scared now after reading this thread. Are the 2010's easier to work on? It seems that way with the longer hood?
I found one that is pretty clean with 9k, running boards, tinted glass, rear sensor xlt for 19k. What is your opinion on it?
I am looking at possibly purchasing a 2010 E350, would you steer me the other way? I am scared now after reading this thread. Are the 2010's easier to work on? It seems that way with the longer hood?
I found one that is pretty clean with 9k, running boards, tinted glass, rear sensor xlt for 19k. What is your opinion on it?
04-08-2011, 10:27 AM
#63
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
I don't really know it that's a good price or not. I'm not really familiar with them, other than knowing they are very expensive to begin with. I imagine a number of these things will be going up for sale if fuel prices continue to escalate. Maybe check online and see what comparable vans are going for to help determine what to offer.
04-08-2011, 10:32 AM
#64
The 5.4 just seems to take longer to perform basic maintenance (at least for me). Little things like changing sparkplugs are a pain in the butt. Plenty of sensors that need to be removed to access basic items. It's a relatively stout engine, just not packaged all that well imo.
I don't really know it that's a good price or not. I'm not really familiar with them, other than knowing they are very expensive to begin with. I imagine a number of these things will be going up for sale if fuel prices continue to escalate. Maybe check online and see what comparable vans are going for to help determine what to offer.
I don't really know it that's a good price or not. I'm not really familiar with them, other than knowing they are very expensive to begin with. I imagine a number of these things will be going up for sale if fuel prices continue to escalate. Maybe check online and see what comparable vans are going for to help determine what to offer.
04-08-2011, 10:47 AM
#65
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
i would not say so much, and the reason being is that the majority of the people who do buy them, buy them for the one purpose, and that is work, and being able to carry all of there tools and supplies (so yes some people maybe able to consolidate to a smaller vehicle, but most will not though, because they need the cargo volume and weight carrying ability of a full-size van)
Perhaps, but the poster who asked the question stated this was a passenger van, not one used for cargo. Anything used for the transportation of people is generally used less or other alternatives explored if fuel prices raise dramatically.
04-08-2011, 10:57 AM
#67
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New vehicles like the Transit Connect and the NV are proving you don't necessarily have to have a giant full-size van when 90% of the time they're not being used to their full extent. When it comes to cargo vans, I think the two vehicles mentioned will be stealing a nice chunk of commercial sales.
04-08-2011, 11:01 AM
#68
Senior Moderator
The 5.4 just seems to take longer to perform basic maintenance (at least for me). Little things like changing sparkplugs are a pain in the butt. Plenty of sensors that need to be removed to access basic items. It's a relatively stout engine, just not packaged all that well imo.
I don't really know it that's a good price or not. I'm not really familiar with them, other than knowing they are very expensive to begin with. I imagine a number of these things will be going up for sale if fuel prices continue to escalate. Maybe check online and see what comparable vans are going for to help determine what to offer.
I don't really know it that's a good price or not. I'm not really familiar with them, other than knowing they are very expensive to begin with. I imagine a number of these things will be going up for sale if fuel prices continue to escalate. Maybe check online and see what comparable vans are going for to help determine what to offer.
(this is in my Expedition and not the van, but im not sure if they have changed design at all?)
04-08-2011, 11:31 AM
#69
, but yes those would be more likely to come up for sale with increases in gas prices thoughYea, on my craptastic engineering design which should have gotten the guy fired, they ran teh fuel rail right across the coilpacks, so to change the plugs or coils(which were/are known for needing replacement) you have to remove the fuel rail bolts and mojo it out of the way to get to the plugs. I had to disconnect the passenger side just to replace the rear plug. A redesign of the mounting bracket and a different bend to it could have located it one side or the other of the coilpacks (this is in my Expedition and not the van, but im not sure if they have changed design at all?)
(this is in my Expedition and not the van, but im not sure if they have changed design at all?)as far as the design of the rails, yeah should not really be that much difference, unless they improved it (but nothing that i see as being "necessary")
04-09-2011, 01:41 AM
#71
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We're not (although we pretend to be on weekends ).
Amusing story to go with that sentiment.
I worked as electrical engineer designing avionics for military aircraft in the 80's. Another engineer, Rich was invited to go to a USAF base and spend a day with technicians. This was part of a program the DoD had to get the defense contractors more familiar with what it's like to operate and maintain their products. He got to spend the day with a F-15 technician. Their task that morning was to replace a hydraulic filter in the rear of the fighter. Rich looked at the shop manual for the aircraft and it showed pictures of the rear hydraulics, location, and access panels. Looking at the illustrations he figured maybe 15-20 minutes to remove and replace the filter. He removed the access panel and started to look around for the filter in mass of pipes and tubing. Not only could he not see it, he couldn't even feel around for it.
The tech was amused to say the least. He told Rich to stick his right arm into the access hole, go to the left as far forward as he could reach and then Rich felt the filter barely. He had no idea how they could remove it. It took both of them all morning to remove the filter clean up the drained hydraulic fluid (it's very flammable) and reinstall and safety wire the new filter. The tech exlained this was one of the worst maintenance tasks on the Eagles hydraulics.
The tech didn't know why engineers at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis had to locate the filter so far out of reach since it could have easily been positioned by the access opening. Rich came away with a new appreciation for the folks who have to keep these complication machines flight ready.
They should do the same with auto engineers
). Amusing story to go with that sentiment.
I worked as electrical engineer designing avionics for military aircraft in the 80's. Another engineer, Rich was invited to go to a USAF base and spend a day with technicians. This was part of a program the DoD had to get the defense contractors more familiar with what it's like to operate and maintain their products. He got to spend the day with a F-15 technician. Their task that morning was to replace a hydraulic filter in the rear of the fighter. Rich looked at the shop manual for the aircraft and it showed pictures of the rear hydraulics, location, and access panels. Looking at the illustrations he figured maybe 15-20 minutes to remove and replace the filter. He removed the access panel and started to look around for the filter in mass of pipes and tubing. Not only could he not see it, he couldn't even feel around for it.
The tech was amused to say the least. He told Rich to stick his right arm into the access hole, go to the left as far forward as he could reach and then Rich felt the filter barely. He had no idea how they could remove it. It took both of them all morning to remove the filter clean up the drained hydraulic fluid (it's very flammable) and reinstall and safety wire the new filter. The tech exlained this was one of the worst maintenance tasks on the Eagles hydraulics.
The tech didn't know why engineers at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis had to locate the filter so far out of reach since it could have easily been positioned by the access opening. Rich came away with a new appreciation for the folks who have to keep these complication machines flight ready.
They should do the same with auto engineers
4 long years of dealing with that....sigh
04-13-2011, 04:06 AM
#72
Evil Mazda Driver
Seeing this thread back reminded me of the horror stories I've heard about working on the old Hyundai 3.5 liter V6. I'm referring to the Sigma engine for you Hyundai 
s.
The timing belt on that particular engine is by far and away the biggest bitch in the world to replace. It is such a pain that I've heard stories of Hyundai techs who will actually call in sick rather than deal with the pain and heartache that comes with a Sigma timing belt job. It's a bitch because it involves keeping four cams in perfect alignment including an exhaust cam and the engine is transversely mounted so there is very little room to work in. Some dealers will actually drop the engine to do them.
Thank God my 3.5 has a timing chain.
s.The timing belt on that particular engine is by far and away the biggest bitch in the world to replace. It is such a pain that I've heard stories of Hyundai techs who will actually call in sick rather than deal with the pain and heartache that comes with a Sigma timing belt job. It's a bitch because it involves keeping four cams in perfect alignment including an exhaust cam and the engine is transversely mounted so there is very little room to work in. Some dealers will actually drop the engine to do them.
Thank God my 3.5 has a timing chain.
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