A Farewell Letter to Acura
01-03-2015, 01:48 PM
#1
A Farewell Letter to Acura
Dear Honda/Acura et. all,
As a teenager and aspiring engineer in the 90's, I drooled over the NSX pictures in car magazines. The clean lines, Ferarri rivaling performance in a dependable, sleek, road-going car that didn't have to be dissected every 5k. I was in love with the logic used, and once able to do so, became a Honda customer in 1997 with the purchase of a Del Sol Si.
It was quirky, head turning, nimble, fun, and an absolute pleasure to drive. Every bit of the reliability went along with all the enjoyable aspects, and the Cayman Island Green was a paint color you wouldn't dare see another manufacturer at the time attempt. It was risky; and ingenuity filled.
It mad a customer of me. The Del Sol was replaced by the B16A2 powered 2000 Civic Si, which promptly received a header, cat delete, cat back, and any JDM ITR parts I could source on the engine bay and interior. Civic Type R red carpet and door panels, steering wheel, console, shifter, floor mats - I was a brand loyal fan boy, and after adding an LSD the car should have been standard with, it was a formidable track day car at the autocross. I bought a third hand 91 CRX for a daily beater, and in spite of having 200k on it, it ran like a top, and I got every penny I spent on it back out of it, when I sold it and bought a 92 Civic Si to replace it. I realized even with the D motor, how spunky a car it was, and just fun to drive, whilst still sipping the petrol.
The boy racer in me was getting more expensive tastes, and while the call of the German rides was noticeable, and in my price range, I bumped up to an 01 Acura CL for my cruiser. I had other plans for my toybox. The auto-box wasn't much to ride home about, but the ride quality, power, and interior were spot on. To date, I still think the CL had the most comfortable seats you've ever made. After the garage space was made available to do so - an 00 S2000 AP1 became the weekend warrior.
The S2000 was perfection. The car needed nothing to hit the track, and nothing to be enjoyable to cruise. The radio was more or less an afterthought, and you weren't buying it for the radio anyway - you were buying it for that screaming F20C, and snick-snicking your best ever manual trans at 9,000 RPMs, screaming down the back roads.
A home, wife, dog, and kids were all coming into the picture. I kept my beloved S2000, and dumped the CL for an 02 MDX. This was my first regret. It rode like crap, and wasn't nearly as comfy as the CL it replaced. It was anemic on power. The wife took the brunt of a bigger car and we replaced her civic with a 99 TL. I was content finding the unicorn I'd sought after a few years earlier; a 2003 CL Type S 6 Manual.
Comptech headers, comptech B pipe and exhaust. P2R intake manifolds. Polished throttle body, lightweight Flywheel and Stage 3 clutch. Lightened pulleys, and new struts and springs. The 4.6 Liter Mustangs could hang with her to 45 or so, but once I hit 3rd gear, it was gone. No contest. Comfy seats, clean lines - awesome ride, and Honda reliability - fantastic car.
Tired of clutching the daily driver, she was sold and replaced with an 09 TL SH-AWD. The wife bumped up to an 07 Type S.
The 09 TL was ugly; bulbous, but the interior and gadgetry were well thought out. It was comfortable to sit in, and drive. The AWD stuck to the road, but it was a cold, lifeless, uninspired machine.
The 07 TL was a formidable rocket of an FF Honda. Torque steering, and harsh riding, but a blast to drive hard. The navigation sucked. The phone integration sucked. The seats were pleasant enough, but the harsh ride was noticeable.
After years of mediocrity, reinforced by the vanilla purchase of the RDX, The 09 TL was my last "I'm going to settle for an Acura" purchase. After bolting every RV6, P2R, and other available goody on for the hope of more power, none was really there. The gear box was abhorred, and sloppily slurped up seconds between up shifts. At 80MPH and WOT, it bogged, and choked, as if the computer said - uh, um, er, okay, gas pedal, right.... let's go. It was floppy and sloppy. It became rattly, and the seat cushions quickly lost their charm. The technical toys were unpredictable, with phone integration sometimes working, sometimes not, and never offering the ability to keep pace with where they were heading.
The 07 remained solid, where the 09 went south. Traded in the same year, with very low miles and pristine conditions, the 07 fetched only 1000 less than the 09 - as the market was equally un-fond of the beast.
The 2014 RDX replaced the 07, and became the kiddo hauler. Finally stuck the J35 in it and made it something that they could ask money for. The interior suffered. Cheap plastics inside and out. Unfinished parts. Rattles. Skimped design with molded plastic appointments instead of multi-part assembly. Pleasant enough on power, it rattles your teeth out at stoplights when cylinder management kicks in to tame it down; something you can't turn off. The remote start is quirky, and unpredictable. The backup camera offers no active logic, and the navigation, borrowed from the outgoing TL, cuts out the voice control system and further skimps. It's vanilla, uninspired. It's just a toolbox - no soul.
The 03 Honda Element in the downstairs garage serves as a reminder of what a fun vehicle you used to make. It's 5 speed manual paired to the solid K24 is still snick snick even with 220k on the ticker. It revs, shift quickly, chirps tires. No AC - no nonsense. The little box moves out when it needs to, and is still fun to drive. The driver is connected to the road through the vehicle, and I have fun taking it to the hardware store.
After checking out the new TLX, and RLX options, I can only conclude that you've lost your way. These are soulless mass productions of uninspired yawns. They are numb; unimaginative. The TLX drives like an Accord on Ritalin. The RLX does the same, if it were addicted to Popeye's chicken. Getting AWD and all the tech toys on the RLX yields a 370ish horsepower car that in trim like an 07 TL would be a fun, rocket of a 13 second flat car, and still have all the creature comforts. Instead it feels like an 80's Lincoln. Big ass - no movement. Numb steering. Numb ride. The dual screen interior is pretty, but under utilized - and for $70k - you'd really better re-think your market.
I have nothing nice to say about the TLX. You effectively terminated the TL, and rebranded the TSX. Call it a TSX and be honest with your customer base, instead of presenting the facade that it's a TL and commands such a price tag. The shifter is tacky (and apparently unreliable). If I wanted a 4 cylinder revvy car, I'd buy a Civic Si, or suffer through an ILX's buzzy acceleration. 40k "luxury" cars don't get Civic engines - or at least not Civic engines without boost. Really.
When I turn the key on my shiny new AMG C63, the ground rumbles. The vibration of 6+ liters of V8 letting you know that there's nearly 500 ponies ready to romp with you, on a snick-snick double clutch gearbox that you can barely out blink. The immersive stereo can drown out the outside world, but with that glorious engine note, why would you want to do so? The iphone integration works - like when you turn the key - it works. No hunting, no fussing, no waiting. Works. The Continental tires do what they are designed to do, and aren't rock hard Michelins that sacrifice ride for performance and performance for longevity. The lines are clean; simple, but aggressive. The seats are better than the S2000's Recaro designs. High bolsters with power adjustable lumbar. The Nav click interface at your armrest is intuitive. No touch screen hunting. The front end doesn't look like it has a honeycomb growing from both eyes.
I am your high income middle class. I buy cars that I want before I buy cars that I need. I'm a lifelong Honda/Acura guy, and I'm tired of settling. I bought a Benz - that makes nearly twice the power of anything you sell while sacrificing nothing but mileage - and I spent less money than your flagship or it's TL impersonating baby sister cost.
There's no denying what you used to be; and unfortunately, I believe the Acura badge shall soon fall by the wayside. The NSX forthcoming will most certainly be in the 130k range with any real power under the hood - and already be inferior to a 6 year old Nissan offering.
You've lost your way. Please find it; we miss you. Innovate. Lead. Be risky. Take chances. Go wild. Quit following. Quit settling. In the meantime, I'll be enjoying your German competition.
-Pseudo
As a teenager and aspiring engineer in the 90's, I drooled over the NSX pictures in car magazines. The clean lines, Ferarri rivaling performance in a dependable, sleek, road-going car that didn't have to be dissected every 5k. I was in love with the logic used, and once able to do so, became a Honda customer in 1997 with the purchase of a Del Sol Si.
It was quirky, head turning, nimble, fun, and an absolute pleasure to drive. Every bit of the reliability went along with all the enjoyable aspects, and the Cayman Island Green was a paint color you wouldn't dare see another manufacturer at the time attempt. It was risky; and ingenuity filled.
It mad a customer of me. The Del Sol was replaced by the B16A2 powered 2000 Civic Si, which promptly received a header, cat delete, cat back, and any JDM ITR parts I could source on the engine bay and interior. Civic Type R red carpet and door panels, steering wheel, console, shifter, floor mats - I was a brand loyal fan boy, and after adding an LSD the car should have been standard with, it was a formidable track day car at the autocross. I bought a third hand 91 CRX for a daily beater, and in spite of having 200k on it, it ran like a top, and I got every penny I spent on it back out of it, when I sold it and bought a 92 Civic Si to replace it. I realized even with the D motor, how spunky a car it was, and just fun to drive, whilst still sipping the petrol.
The boy racer in me was getting more expensive tastes, and while the call of the German rides was noticeable, and in my price range, I bumped up to an 01 Acura CL for my cruiser. I had other plans for my toybox. The auto-box wasn't much to ride home about, but the ride quality, power, and interior were spot on. To date, I still think the CL had the most comfortable seats you've ever made. After the garage space was made available to do so - an 00 S2000 AP1 became the weekend warrior.
The S2000 was perfection. The car needed nothing to hit the track, and nothing to be enjoyable to cruise. The radio was more or less an afterthought, and you weren't buying it for the radio anyway - you were buying it for that screaming F20C, and snick-snicking your best ever manual trans at 9,000 RPMs, screaming down the back roads.
A home, wife, dog, and kids were all coming into the picture. I kept my beloved S2000, and dumped the CL for an 02 MDX. This was my first regret. It rode like crap, and wasn't nearly as comfy as the CL it replaced. It was anemic on power. The wife took the brunt of a bigger car and we replaced her civic with a 99 TL. I was content finding the unicorn I'd sought after a few years earlier; a 2003 CL Type S 6 Manual.
Comptech headers, comptech B pipe and exhaust. P2R intake manifolds. Polished throttle body, lightweight Flywheel and Stage 3 clutch. Lightened pulleys, and new struts and springs. The 4.6 Liter Mustangs could hang with her to 45 or so, but once I hit 3rd gear, it was gone. No contest. Comfy seats, clean lines - awesome ride, and Honda reliability - fantastic car.
Tired of clutching the daily driver, she was sold and replaced with an 09 TL SH-AWD. The wife bumped up to an 07 Type S.
The 09 TL was ugly; bulbous, but the interior and gadgetry were well thought out. It was comfortable to sit in, and drive. The AWD stuck to the road, but it was a cold, lifeless, uninspired machine.
The 07 TL was a formidable rocket of an FF Honda. Torque steering, and harsh riding, but a blast to drive hard. The navigation sucked. The phone integration sucked. The seats were pleasant enough, but the harsh ride was noticeable.
After years of mediocrity, reinforced by the vanilla purchase of the RDX, The 09 TL was my last "I'm going to settle for an Acura" purchase. After bolting every RV6, P2R, and other available goody on for the hope of more power, none was really there. The gear box was abhorred, and sloppily slurped up seconds between up shifts. At 80MPH and WOT, it bogged, and choked, as if the computer said - uh, um, er, okay, gas pedal, right.... let's go. It was floppy and sloppy. It became rattly, and the seat cushions quickly lost their charm. The technical toys were unpredictable, with phone integration sometimes working, sometimes not, and never offering the ability to keep pace with where they were heading.
The 07 remained solid, where the 09 went south. Traded in the same year, with very low miles and pristine conditions, the 07 fetched only 1000 less than the 09 - as the market was equally un-fond of the beast.
The 2014 RDX replaced the 07, and became the kiddo hauler. Finally stuck the J35 in it and made it something that they could ask money for. The interior suffered. Cheap plastics inside and out. Unfinished parts. Rattles. Skimped design with molded plastic appointments instead of multi-part assembly. Pleasant enough on power, it rattles your teeth out at stoplights when cylinder management kicks in to tame it down; something you can't turn off. The remote start is quirky, and unpredictable. The backup camera offers no active logic, and the navigation, borrowed from the outgoing TL, cuts out the voice control system and further skimps. It's vanilla, uninspired. It's just a toolbox - no soul.
The 03 Honda Element in the downstairs garage serves as a reminder of what a fun vehicle you used to make. It's 5 speed manual paired to the solid K24 is still snick snick even with 220k on the ticker. It revs, shift quickly, chirps tires. No AC - no nonsense. The little box moves out when it needs to, and is still fun to drive. The driver is connected to the road through the vehicle, and I have fun taking it to the hardware store.
After checking out the new TLX, and RLX options, I can only conclude that you've lost your way. These are soulless mass productions of uninspired yawns. They are numb; unimaginative. The TLX drives like an Accord on Ritalin. The RLX does the same, if it were addicted to Popeye's chicken. Getting AWD and all the tech toys on the RLX yields a 370ish horsepower car that in trim like an 07 TL would be a fun, rocket of a 13 second flat car, and still have all the creature comforts. Instead it feels like an 80's Lincoln. Big ass - no movement. Numb steering. Numb ride. The dual screen interior is pretty, but under utilized - and for $70k - you'd really better re-think your market.
I have nothing nice to say about the TLX. You effectively terminated the TL, and rebranded the TSX. Call it a TSX and be honest with your customer base, instead of presenting the facade that it's a TL and commands such a price tag. The shifter is tacky (and apparently unreliable). If I wanted a 4 cylinder revvy car, I'd buy a Civic Si, or suffer through an ILX's buzzy acceleration. 40k "luxury" cars don't get Civic engines - or at least not Civic engines without boost. Really.
When I turn the key on my shiny new AMG C63, the ground rumbles. The vibration of 6+ liters of V8 letting you know that there's nearly 500 ponies ready to romp with you, on a snick-snick double clutch gearbox that you can barely out blink. The immersive stereo can drown out the outside world, but with that glorious engine note, why would you want to do so? The iphone integration works - like when you turn the key - it works. No hunting, no fussing, no waiting. Works. The Continental tires do what they are designed to do, and aren't rock hard Michelins that sacrifice ride for performance and performance for longevity. The lines are clean; simple, but aggressive. The seats are better than the S2000's Recaro designs. High bolsters with power adjustable lumbar. The Nav click interface at your armrest is intuitive. No touch screen hunting. The front end doesn't look like it has a honeycomb growing from both eyes.
I am your high income middle class. I buy cars that I want before I buy cars that I need. I'm a lifelong Honda/Acura guy, and I'm tired of settling. I bought a Benz - that makes nearly twice the power of anything you sell while sacrificing nothing but mileage - and I spent less money than your flagship or it's TL impersonating baby sister cost.
There's no denying what you used to be; and unfortunately, I believe the Acura badge shall soon fall by the wayside. The NSX forthcoming will most certainly be in the 130k range with any real power under the hood - and already be inferior to a 6 year old Nissan offering.
You've lost your way. Please find it; we miss you. Innovate. Lead. Be risky. Take chances. Go wild. Quit following. Quit settling. In the meantime, I'll be enjoying your German competition.
-Pseudo
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01-03-2015, 03:17 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
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so you were cross-shopping a C63 and a TLX? interesting . . .
01-03-2015, 03:49 PM
#3
Team Owner
Well said.
I feel the people buying the new ILX, TLX, RLX are somewhat lying to themselves. And I don't blame them. It's hard to spend 30-70k and admit "wow, this was a bad buy". I've been there. I bought a brand new car that seemed like a good idea at the time but soon realized it wasn't what I thought it was.
Acura does not offer thrill, like their marketing suggests it does. Acura does not offer performance, at least not anymore than any of their competitors, and in many cases, less. Acura is not reliable, as the brand was once perceived to be. Acura does not make me, or a lot of people for that matter, cry out "wow. I want that car!" Like they did in all of the 90s. Acura is nothing more than an appliance maker today, not excelling in anything.
I had a loaded '14 MDX for the day as a loaner car while my '06 TL was getting a recall taken care of earlier in the summer. I couldn't believe what acura was asking for the vehicle, as I, for the life of me, couldn't see the value for the price tag. The interior was uninspiring. It did not feel luxurious at all. I drove the suv to one of my sites and a couple construction workers asked:
"did you buy a new car? What is it?"
"No, it's just a loaner for the day. It's an Acura MDX"
"Oh. Didn't think you'd buy something like that"
No one was interested in it. No one wanted to take a second look. No one cared even an ounce for it.
No one dug Acura's grave besides Acura itself. The 2012 civic was an abomination to the car world, yet honda quickly realized it and tried correcting it. Where was Acura on the 4G TL? Oh right, nowhere, beyond some minor tweaks here and there over a five year period.
I know many will disagree and call blasphemy on me saying all of this, but I'm in the same boat as the OP. I've been a diehard honda/acura fan since I took an interest in cars, but I refuse to buy another one again. For what it's worth, I like my 3G TL, but it's getting old. I will be looking for other manufacturers when it comes time to replace the wife's car and eventually my own.
Good luck Acura, I wish you all the best in the future. I hope your unveiling of the 2G NSX in 9 days will go well. I also hope you have some big plans for the not so distant future for your entire lineup.
I feel the people buying the new ILX, TLX, RLX are somewhat lying to themselves. And I don't blame them. It's hard to spend 30-70k and admit "wow, this was a bad buy". I've been there. I bought a brand new car that seemed like a good idea at the time but soon realized it wasn't what I thought it was.
Acura does not offer thrill, like their marketing suggests it does. Acura does not offer performance, at least not anymore than any of their competitors, and in many cases, less. Acura is not reliable, as the brand was once perceived to be. Acura does not make me, or a lot of people for that matter, cry out "wow. I want that car!" Like they did in all of the 90s. Acura is nothing more than an appliance maker today, not excelling in anything.
I had a loaded '14 MDX for the day as a loaner car while my '06 TL was getting a recall taken care of earlier in the summer. I couldn't believe what acura was asking for the vehicle, as I, for the life of me, couldn't see the value for the price tag. The interior was uninspiring. It did not feel luxurious at all. I drove the suv to one of my sites and a couple construction workers asked:
"did you buy a new car? What is it?"
"No, it's just a loaner for the day. It's an Acura MDX"
"Oh. Didn't think you'd buy something like that"
No one was interested in it. No one wanted to take a second look. No one cared even an ounce for it.
No one dug Acura's grave besides Acura itself. The 2012 civic was an abomination to the car world, yet honda quickly realized it and tried correcting it. Where was Acura on the 4G TL? Oh right, nowhere, beyond some minor tweaks here and there over a five year period.
I know many will disagree and call blasphemy on me saying all of this, but I'm in the same boat as the OP. I've been a diehard honda/acura fan since I took an interest in cars, but I refuse to buy another one again. For what it's worth, I like my 3G TL, but it's getting old. I will be looking for other manufacturers when it comes time to replace the wife's car and eventually my own.
Good luck Acura, I wish you all the best in the future. I hope your unveiling of the 2G NSX in 9 days will go well. I also hope you have some big plans for the not so distant future for your entire lineup.
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mrmako (01-11-2015)
01-03-2015, 03:54 PM
#4
Team Owner
I think you're reading wrongly into this. I think the OP wanted something refined, sporty with handling/power, and luxurious. He wasn't comparing a massive V8 to an I4/V6, but rather, what the vehicles offered. And Acura has nothing sporty. At all. He wasn't necessarily looking for 500-tire-shredding-hp, and likely would have been content with ~350hp, had everything else been fantastic. Where would you find that in the Acura lineup?
01-03-2015, 04:15 PM
#6
Dollars
2012 C63 AMG sedan
New continentals
30k on ticker, 30k service done
3 year unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty
3 year 24x7 roadside
3 year service, which is ALL consumables as well (oil, trans fluid, pads, wiper blades, etc)
$48,500 out the door. +$1500 for the next 3 year service appointments.
Sticker on a new one with the same equipment is 75k. I'm a big proponent of the certified pre owned market. Let's someone else take the initial huge depreciation hit. In 3 years, we will see if Acura has woken up, or gone bankrupt. Viva la ZDX!
New continentals
30k on ticker, 30k service done
3 year unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty
3 year 24x7 roadside
3 year service, which is ALL consumables as well (oil, trans fluid, pads, wiper blades, etc)
$48,500 out the door. +$1500 for the next 3 year service appointments.
Sticker on a new one with the same equipment is 75k. I'm a big proponent of the certified pre owned market. Let's someone else take the initial huge depreciation hit. In 3 years, we will see if Acura has woken up, or gone bankrupt. Viva la ZDX!
01-03-2015, 07:37 PM
#8
GEEZER
I miss the old days when it really meant something to own such a piece of Japanese Engineering. Had a few Hondas before my Acuras...My 99 GSR was the fave. My CLS Type S was the nicest "Real Car".
Last edited by 1killercls; 01-03-2015 at 07:40 PM.
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01-03-2015, 07:43 PM
#9
Rooting for Acura
iTrader: (1)
Dear Honda/Acura et. all,
I buy cars that I want before I buy cars that I need.
There's no denying what you used to be; and unfortunately, I believe the Acura badge shall soon fall by the wayside. The NSX forthcoming will most certainly be in the 130k range with any real power under the hood - and already be inferior to a 6 year old Nissan offering.
-Pseudo
I buy cars that I want before I buy cars that I need.
There's no denying what you used to be; and unfortunately, I believe the Acura badge shall soon fall by the wayside. The NSX forthcoming will most certainly be in the 130k range with any real power under the hood - and already be inferior to a 6 year old Nissan offering.
-Pseudo
Acura is now, and has been for a while now, the "sensible" guy/gal's luxury marque. Acura tried to make a comeback when they introduced us to the "power plenum" (read: bird beak) grill. That didn't go well at all.
It is no wonder why Acura is not an enthusiast's brand any longer. They made all the "right" moves to ensure that they became mainstream.
1. Discontinued using the names that made the brand famous (Legend, Integra) to join the alphabet soup naming convention of every other car maker. Way to shoot for the middle.
2. Stopped producing the Legend; which was the flagship sedan and coupe that were very sought after. Kill of your most iconic car. That'll ensure you'll need to start all over.
3. Bye, bye NSX. Decided that having a halo car was not worth it. Well, it doesn't when you don't car about car enthusiasts.
4. Killed off the RSX (ala no more "Integra"). This was the beginning of doing away with coupes in the line up. It's a shame, because the RSX was a fun car. Oh wait, fun was not a part of the Acura's equation. My bad.
5. Killed off the CL. This, IMO was the final blow. With this, Acura had no more coupes in their line up, thus effectively killing off "sporty" in the brand. Also, now the RSX buyers that were looking for a "grown up's" coupe in the brand they identified with had no place to go. In comes Infiniti to pick up the pieces (ala G35 coupe).
6. Doggedly refuses a RWD platform. Everyone knows that to be taken seriously in the sport / sport sedan market that front wheel drive just won't do. I know, I know, AWD... but not really. Sounds like another compromise by a company who's lost their soul for exciting motoring.
7. Deciding that the TL must go. Other than the MDX, it was Acura's best selling car.
To add insult to injury, Acura decides that the TSX must go too. No problem there. Just another sedan. In comes the TLX. I hope it does well (like carry more sales than the two cars it replaces). What a bold move.I could go on, but you get the picture. OP, we're all disappointed, and I don't think the new NSX is going to be enough to get any of us that have moved away from Acura into another Acura any time soon.
Welcome to the ex-Acura owner's club.
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01-03-2015, 07:44 PM
#10
GEEZER
Welcome to the ex-Acura owner's club.
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Pseudomaniac (01-03-2015)
01-03-2015, 08:37 PM
#11
Maybe they should hire this guy. He brought Nissan back from the grave, and gave the VQ engine new life, fun cars, and made sure the Z car and GTR happened.
The Gaijin Who Saved Nissan - Businessweek
The Gaijin Who Saved Nissan - Businessweek
01-03-2015, 08:54 PM
#12
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
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You have come to the conclusion many of us came to YEARS ago.
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01-03-2015, 08:58 PM
#13
Senior Moderator
The C63 is bad assed. Congrats! 
This thread is turning into yet another rehash of Acura's well known issues.
It's no longer for enthusiasts, and they are obviously seeking a different buyer than in the past.
The solution is for enthusiasts to leave the brand. I did and have now owned Cadillacs for almost six years.
I came back because the RLX's tech is pretty cool, and the car is unbelievably fun to drive. I wouldn't call myself "in denial" about Acura's issues, though.
Basically, I'm giving Acura one last chance. If nothing compelling by the time my (first ever) lease runs out, back to Cadillac for me as they know how to treat enthusiasts, and reliability has improved over the bad old days. Or maybe I'll give the 3-pointed star a try.
This thread is turning into yet another rehash of Acura's well known issues.
It's no longer for enthusiasts, and they are obviously seeking a different buyer than in the past.
The solution is for enthusiasts to leave the brand. I did and have now owned Cadillacs for almost six years.
I came back because the RLX's tech is pretty cool, and the car is unbelievably fun to drive. I wouldn't call myself "in denial" about Acura's issues, though.
Basically, I'm giving Acura one last chance. If nothing compelling by the time my (first ever) lease runs out, back to Cadillac for me as they know how to treat enthusiasts, and reliability has improved over the bad old days. Or maybe I'll give the 3-pointed star a try.
01-03-2015, 10:40 PM
#14
אני עומד עם ישראל
Pics of the C63? Congrats on the purchase btw! Acura meh... They lost me after my 3G TL was traded for my Infiniti that I've had for the last 5 years.
Nothing to bring me back. Like you higher middle class income and have owned a plethora of HondAcuras. Something German or with an F or a V for my G37S replacement.
Nothing to bring me back. Like you higher middle class income and have owned a plethora of HondAcuras. Something German or with an F or a V for my G37S replacement.
Last edited by Hapa DC5; 01-03-2015 at 10:43 PM.
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01-04-2015, 12:14 AM
#18
Racer
Very well said. Can't say I really agree with you, but you made a really great case, and certainly justified why you feel the way you do.
I'm 16. I will be buying my first car within the next 6-12 months, and thanks to generous parents, good grades and years of my own saving/lawn-mowing, house-sitting jobs, I have just enough money to be able to afford an ILX (around $30k or so). My parents are most concerned that I'm in a safe, reliable car and are willing to pay for that security. I have also been absolutely obsessed with anything car since I was 1, so it’s not like they’re throwing money away on a car for me.
My mom has had an 08 RDX since I was 7. Since we first drove that thing home from the dealer, I was in love. We had waited to buy a new car until my mom's Jeep was 12 years old, and falling apart. The new car was so exciting to me. That new-car excitement didn't wear off me for two years, I swear. This was really the beginning of my love for Hondas/Acuras. 7 is a very impressionable age, and as I grew up in the RDX and learned more and more about cars each year, I became further and further interested in Honda/Acura. At 15 in my long driveway, I learned to drive in that car. To say the least, it was always a big part of my excitement for cars.
Now we come to today. My first car is a huge deal to me, as anyone might imagine. I never really planned what car I wanted, never really had an image in my head, until about a year ago. A combination of my passion for Honda but Acura especially, combined with reading Tyson Hugie's entire blog about the ILX 2.4, and I was completely in love with the ILX 6-speed. The way I felt about it was similar to when I was 7, riding in the back of a brand new RDX. I couldn't drive then, so my dad took me to our local dealer and we test drove a brand new ILX 2.4 in Bellanova White Pearl. I loved the sound of it, the way it revved. I loved the way it looked, and since that test drive I decided that I wanted a white ILX. Really, I just couldn't believe that I had found such a perfect car.
And then came the updated 2016 model. I'm happy with what they did to the interior. I think the fancy new headlights look great, and unlike most I think the dual screen layout is cool. However the second that I found out that the wonderful K24Z7 would be replaced with the much quieter, more "tame" direct injected motor, I was upset. When I found out there would be no manual, I was furious. I never saw it coming. My dream car, from my dream brand, had gone away, and I couldn't understand why. Yeah, I could get a used one, but I wanted that experience of buying a brand new car, being the only owner, seeing the car go to its first service, on and on. I don't care about having the "best" car necessarily, since there are many used cars from other brands that would check every box on any teenager's first car checklist for under $30k, but I wanted to re-live the experience I had with the RDX again.
Now what am I going to do? I know, the problem sounds silly, I am so lucky to be able to have such a nice first car. I recognize this, and honestly I'd be happy with really any car. Heck, right now my dad gave me that Jeep my mom had before the RDX, and it doesn’t even run. I just love cars in general. It's just that I feel slightly let down by Acura. Don't get me wrong, unlike most others on this thread, I really do still believe in Acura cars, and I still think they produce great products (my opinion, I don't really care to argue about that). However, what about someone like me? I want the "enthusiast's" Acura. The ILX 2.4 was that car. The 6-speed was so-so as a "luxury" car, but it made me happy as an enthusiast. Now, however, my only option from Acura in my budget is an ILX with an engine as quiet as an Accord engine, and an automatic. Yes, a good automatic, but an automatic. Acura’s answer to the replacement of the 6-speed? The A-Spec package. Bigger wheels, black headliner, red gauges, and a spoiler. What about a manual? Enthusiasts don’t really care what color the headliner is…
I could move to another brand. Yet, that takes me away from a brand that I have loved for more than half of my short life, so I don't want to do that. Or, I could buy a Honda Civic Si, the only real car from either Honda or Acura in my budget that has any real sporty intentions. I love the Civic Si, it's a great car and fits every wish I could possibly ask out of a car (new, safe, reliable, made by Honda, sporty, comfortable, nice interior). But I could have gotten an Acura, saw the one I wanted. They could have made a life-long customer out of me (probably will be anyway...). But when someone asks me, "what was your first car?" I can't tell them it was from the brand that I love the most, because they don't make cars for people like me anymore.
If I could say anything to Acura, it would be that I like the mainstream cars that are being produced, and that they'll probably sell well and grow the company. I also think that the normal models are nice, sporty-enough, high tech cars that compare well to the competition. But please, don't abandon the Integra/RSX/ILX group. With each new model from the Integra to the RSX to the ILX, the enthusiast base has gotten smaller and smaller, and yet again that car is gone. I will be so, so happy driving a beautiful Honda Civic Si, and I will be so lucky if I end up with that as my first car. But it isn't an Acura. It won't be driven off the same lot that my mom's RDX was driven off of when I was 7. Hopefully, by the time I get out of college and am able to afford a luxury car like an Acura, they'll have something for me. Or maybe they’ll unveil the car I’m waiting for within the next year. I still love Acura, still follow the brand religiously, and I’m sure will own one at some point in my life. I recommend Acuras to anyone who is looking, and I really do love the cars that they make right now. But for a dedicated sporty-car, I’m just going to have to wait.
Note: You might notice on the ILX threads that my dad just bought an ILX 2.0, based off of what I told him he should buy. He bought the ILX after only a quick test drive, and he thought it was a very nice car. Again, I certainly believe in Acura’s cars, and the ILX isn’t intended as a sporty car for us. I don’t think you have to “settle” as OP has said if you’re looking for a direct competitor to, say, the Lexus IS250 (the TLX won’t disappoint 95% of people), or the Infiniti QX60 (again, the MDX IMO is a great car, will not disappoint). But Acura simply doesn’t make a car like the C63 AMG. Clearly, you didn’t want a TL-like car, you wanted a C63-like car, which isn’t offered by Acura. Crossing my fingers for the future, and the NSX, no matter what it is, is truly needed.
Sorry for the thread hi-jack. Had to get this out somewhere, maybe I fit your point.
I'm 16. I will be buying my first car within the next 6-12 months, and thanks to generous parents, good grades and years of my own saving/lawn-mowing, house-sitting jobs, I have just enough money to be able to afford an ILX (around $30k or so). My parents are most concerned that I'm in a safe, reliable car and are willing to pay for that security. I have also been absolutely obsessed with anything car since I was 1, so it’s not like they’re throwing money away on a car for me.
My mom has had an 08 RDX since I was 7. Since we first drove that thing home from the dealer, I was in love. We had waited to buy a new car until my mom's Jeep was 12 years old, and falling apart. The new car was so exciting to me. That new-car excitement didn't wear off me for two years, I swear. This was really the beginning of my love for Hondas/Acuras. 7 is a very impressionable age, and as I grew up in the RDX and learned more and more about cars each year, I became further and further interested in Honda/Acura. At 15 in my long driveway, I learned to drive in that car. To say the least, it was always a big part of my excitement for cars.
Now we come to today. My first car is a huge deal to me, as anyone might imagine. I never really planned what car I wanted, never really had an image in my head, until about a year ago. A combination of my passion for Honda but Acura especially, combined with reading Tyson Hugie's entire blog about the ILX 2.4, and I was completely in love with the ILX 6-speed. The way I felt about it was similar to when I was 7, riding in the back of a brand new RDX. I couldn't drive then, so my dad took me to our local dealer and we test drove a brand new ILX 2.4 in Bellanova White Pearl. I loved the sound of it, the way it revved. I loved the way it looked, and since that test drive I decided that I wanted a white ILX. Really, I just couldn't believe that I had found such a perfect car.
And then came the updated 2016 model. I'm happy with what they did to the interior. I think the fancy new headlights look great, and unlike most I think the dual screen layout is cool. However the second that I found out that the wonderful K24Z7 would be replaced with the much quieter, more "tame" direct injected motor, I was upset. When I found out there would be no manual, I was furious. I never saw it coming. My dream car, from my dream brand, had gone away, and I couldn't understand why. Yeah, I could get a used one, but I wanted that experience of buying a brand new car, being the only owner, seeing the car go to its first service, on and on. I don't care about having the "best" car necessarily, since there are many used cars from other brands that would check every box on any teenager's first car checklist for under $30k, but I wanted to re-live the experience I had with the RDX again.
Now what am I going to do? I know, the problem sounds silly, I am so lucky to be able to have such a nice first car. I recognize this, and honestly I'd be happy with really any car. Heck, right now my dad gave me that Jeep my mom had before the RDX, and it doesn’t even run. I just love cars in general. It's just that I feel slightly let down by Acura. Don't get me wrong, unlike most others on this thread, I really do still believe in Acura cars, and I still think they produce great products (my opinion, I don't really care to argue about that). However, what about someone like me? I want the "enthusiast's" Acura. The ILX 2.4 was that car. The 6-speed was so-so as a "luxury" car, but it made me happy as an enthusiast. Now, however, my only option from Acura in my budget is an ILX with an engine as quiet as an Accord engine, and an automatic. Yes, a good automatic, but an automatic. Acura’s answer to the replacement of the 6-speed? The A-Spec package. Bigger wheels, black headliner, red gauges, and a spoiler. What about a manual? Enthusiasts don’t really care what color the headliner is…
I could move to another brand. Yet, that takes me away from a brand that I have loved for more than half of my short life, so I don't want to do that. Or, I could buy a Honda Civic Si, the only real car from either Honda or Acura in my budget that has any real sporty intentions. I love the Civic Si, it's a great car and fits every wish I could possibly ask out of a car (new, safe, reliable, made by Honda, sporty, comfortable, nice interior). But I could have gotten an Acura, saw the one I wanted. They could have made a life-long customer out of me (probably will be anyway...). But when someone asks me, "what was your first car?" I can't tell them it was from the brand that I love the most, because they don't make cars for people like me anymore.
If I could say anything to Acura, it would be that I like the mainstream cars that are being produced, and that they'll probably sell well and grow the company. I also think that the normal models are nice, sporty-enough, high tech cars that compare well to the competition. But please, don't abandon the Integra/RSX/ILX group. With each new model from the Integra to the RSX to the ILX, the enthusiast base has gotten smaller and smaller, and yet again that car is gone. I will be so, so happy driving a beautiful Honda Civic Si, and I will be so lucky if I end up with that as my first car. But it isn't an Acura. It won't be driven off the same lot that my mom's RDX was driven off of when I was 7. Hopefully, by the time I get out of college and am able to afford a luxury car like an Acura, they'll have something for me. Or maybe they’ll unveil the car I’m waiting for within the next year. I still love Acura, still follow the brand religiously, and I’m sure will own one at some point in my life. I recommend Acuras to anyone who is looking, and I really do love the cars that they make right now. But for a dedicated sporty-car, I’m just going to have to wait.
Note: You might notice on the ILX threads that my dad just bought an ILX 2.0, based off of what I told him he should buy. He bought the ILX after only a quick test drive, and he thought it was a very nice car. Again, I certainly believe in Acura’s cars, and the ILX isn’t intended as a sporty car for us. I don’t think you have to “settle” as OP has said if you’re looking for a direct competitor to, say, the Lexus IS250 (the TLX won’t disappoint 95% of people), or the Infiniti QX60 (again, the MDX IMO is a great car, will not disappoint). But Acura simply doesn’t make a car like the C63 AMG. Clearly, you didn’t want a TL-like car, you wanted a C63-like car, which isn’t offered by Acura. Crossing my fingers for the future, and the NSX, no matter what it is, is truly needed.
Sorry for the thread hi-jack. Had to get this out somewhere, maybe I fit your point.
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Georgiey22 (01-04-2015)
01-04-2015, 05:52 AM
#19
While I love my CL-S, it is not the most reliable thing I have ever driven, I like it. It was however, a sign of the end for Acura everything after the 3GL TL has been a serious departure from the Acura of old.
01-04-2015, 08:49 AM
#20
AZ Community Team
Forbes was on this to this in 2003
Acura: The Honda That Didn't - Forbes
Acura: The Honda That Didn't - Forbes
Remember back when Japanese cars were small, inexpensive and unpretentious?
That changed in 1986. Honda Motor moved upscale with its Acura division aimed at the luxury market.
Talk about overnight success: Acura was quickly outselling Mercedes-Benz and BMW . And then Toyota Motor started Lexus, and Acura outsold that, too.
But that was then and this is now.
Where is Acura in today’s luxury market? Most of the cars sold are sport sedans and coupes, costing $30,000 or less. Consumer Reports likes them, and testers give them good marks for handling. But most of them aren’t luxury cars. Acura’s best seller so far this year is a fine sport utility vehicle, the MDX, a $40,000 rival to Toyota’s Lexus RX 330, but that’s not quite a car; it’s a cross between an SUV and a minivan, these days dubbed a “crossover.”
What went wrong? It’s just hard to score in the luxury market when you refuse to do an eight-cylinder engine, wear undistinguished styling and don’t offer a rear-wheel-drive car. Acura’s absurd system for naming its cars doesn’t help either.
Let’s look at these problems one by one:
Honda has an almost religious fervor when it comes to not doing an eight-cylinder car. Its $45,000 (sticker) flagship sedan, the RL, only has a six. But the top competitors in the luxury field also offer eights or even bigger engines. When Acura was new, its luxury model, the Legend, was selling 50,000 per year. Last year the RL, the Legend’s replacement, sold only 9,392 units. Honda targets the RL against the Mercedes E-Class and BMW 5 Series. But each of those sold more than 40,000 units last year.
Undistinguished styling: Well, just look at the cars. It’s not that they look bad, but they aren’t anything special.
...
That changed in 1986. Honda Motor moved upscale with its Acura division aimed at the luxury market.
Talk about overnight success: Acura was quickly outselling Mercedes-Benz and BMW . And then Toyota Motor started Lexus, and Acura outsold that, too.
But that was then and this is now.
Where is Acura in today’s luxury market? Most of the cars sold are sport sedans and coupes, costing $30,000 or less. Consumer Reports likes them, and testers give them good marks for handling. But most of them aren’t luxury cars. Acura’s best seller so far this year is a fine sport utility vehicle, the MDX, a $40,000 rival to Toyota’s Lexus RX 330, but that’s not quite a car; it’s a cross between an SUV and a minivan, these days dubbed a “crossover.”
What went wrong? It’s just hard to score in the luxury market when you refuse to do an eight-cylinder engine, wear undistinguished styling and don’t offer a rear-wheel-drive car. Acura’s absurd system for naming its cars doesn’t help either.
Let’s look at these problems one by one:
Honda has an almost religious fervor when it comes to not doing an eight-cylinder car. Its $45,000 (sticker) flagship sedan, the RL, only has a six. But the top competitors in the luxury field also offer eights or even bigger engines. When Acura was new, its luxury model, the Legend, was selling 50,000 per year. Last year the RL, the Legend’s replacement, sold only 9,392 units. Honda targets the RL against the Mercedes E-Class and BMW 5 Series. But each of those sold more than 40,000 units last year.
Undistinguished styling: Well, just look at the cars. It’s not that they look bad, but they aren’t anything special.
...
01-04-2015, 11:32 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
...
3. Bye, bye NSX. Decided that having a halo car was not worth it. Well, it doesn't when you don't car about car enthusiasts.
...
7. Deciding that the TL must go. Other than the MDX, it was Acura's best selling car. To add insult to injury, Acura decides that the TSX must go too. No problem there. Just another sedan. In comes the TLX. I hope it does well (like carry more sales than the two cars it replaces). What a bold move.
3. Bye, bye NSX. Decided that having a halo car was not worth it. Well, it doesn't when you don't car about car enthusiasts.
...
7. Deciding that the TL must go. Other than the MDX, it was Acura's best selling car.
To add insult to injury, Acura decides that the TSX must go too. No problem there. Just another sedan. In comes the TLX. I hope it does well (like carry more sales than the two cars it replaces). What a bold move.The NSX just wasn't selling and growing stricter emissions laws made the 1st gen NSX even a tougher sell. Here's Fifth Gears' Vicki saying farewell to the NSX:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6f-rEJwAWU
As for replacing the TL and TSX with the TLX, the thinking was to simplify Acura's line-up. It's generally accepted that the TLX V6 replaces the TL and the TLX 4 cylinder replaces the TSX. Will it work? I don't know, but simplifying the product line did wonders for Apple's desktop lineup back in the day (2005'ish?). So far, the TLX is off to a good start:
Chart Of The Day: How Important Is The TLX In Acura Showrooms? - The Truth About Cars
Other than that, yeah, it's hard for me to get excited about Acura. But I am not angry or bitter -- I do want Acura to succeed. In the meantime, there are definitely sportier luxury and non-luxury alternatives -- BMW and Mazda comes to mind.
01-04-2015, 01:39 PM
#22
Suzuka Master
It is sad seeing the downward spiral of Acura over the last decade. The only two cars I've owed have been TLs and I know for a fact that when it comes time to purchase a new car it won't be from Acura. 
Unless its a beak-less TT TL-S
Unless its a beak-less TT TL-S
01-04-2015, 01:44 PM
#23
Team Owner
I agree with most of your points, although I'd like to add some clarification to items 3 and 7.
The NSX just wasn't selling and growing stricter emissions laws made the 1st gen NSX even a tougher sell. Here's Fifth Gears' Vicki saying farewell to the NSX:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6f-rEJwAWU
As for replacing the TL and TSX with the TLX, the thinking was to simplify Acura's line-up. It's generally accepted that the TLX V6 replaces the TL and the TLX 4 cylinder replaces the TSX. Will it work? I don't know, but simplifying the product line did wonders for Apple's desktop lineup back in the day (2005'ish?). So far, the TLX is off to a good start:
Chart Of The Day: How Important Is The TLX In Acura Showrooms? - The Truth About Cars
Other than that, yeah, it's hard for me to get excited about Acura. But I am not angry or bitter -- I do want Acura to succeed. In the meantime, there are definitely sportier luxury and non-luxury alternatives -- BMW and Mazda comes to mind.
The NSX just wasn't selling and growing stricter emissions laws made the 1st gen NSX even a tougher sell. Here's Fifth Gears' Vicki saying farewell to the NSX:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6f-rEJwAWU
As for replacing the TL and TSX with the TLX, the thinking was to simplify Acura's line-up. It's generally accepted that the TLX V6 replaces the TL and the TLX 4 cylinder replaces the TSX. Will it work? I don't know, but simplifying the product line did wonders for Apple's desktop lineup back in the day (2005'ish?). So far, the TLX is off to a good start:
Chart Of The Day: How Important Is The TLX In Acura Showrooms? - The Truth About Cars
Other than that, yeah, it's hard for me to get excited about Acura. But I am not angry or bitter -- I do want Acura to succeed. In the meantime, there are definitely sportier luxury and non-luxury alternatives -- BMW and Mazda comes to mind.
The problem with ditching the TL and TSX is that Acura is attempting to turn away from being "luxurious", yet again. I don't know many luxury car buyers who would have considered a TSX in the past, to now buy a "base model" TLX. Yes, I know the loaded I4 and V6 models are equally optioned out, but it's engines and power that sell luxury cars. That's why people begged for a V8 and Acura said no. If Acura wants to sell a car with a 4-banger, that's fine, but make it the only engine available. Same goes for the 6-banger. Look at lexus- they separated the IS250 and 350 as two different cars, but could have easily included both engine options under one car.
Product line simplification may have worked for Apple, but I don't think it will work as well for Acura, and judging by the numbers, it hasn't. Acura was selling more TL/TSX than I4/V6 TLX. Back in the day, the V6 Legend sold well, but having a V6 back then for a flagship Japanese car was acceptable. These days it is not.
01-04-2015, 01:47 PM
#24
Team Owner
I sincerely wish the executives at Acura would sign up for AZ and take a good read through this forum once in awhile... Sigh.
01-04-2015, 01:50 PM
#25
people here are delusional. so you say acura has stopped innovating. its no longer an enthusiast brand. so what was so innovative about the 3G TL? I own 07 type-s and its okay but theres nothing about it screams enthusiast. its a freakin fwd drive car. the tech sucks. so whats so innovative about unique about the 3G?
OP obviously your new choice of car is something acura will never make. its a completely different segment. i can understand that you wanted an upgrade and you got it. good for you! its not that acura was always ahead of the curve in the past or more exciting than other brands. it was your own perception. as you get older your tastes and wants change. you wanted a rwd, v8, high line vehicle. will acura produce that? no.. its not what the brand is about. nothing wrong with that.
OP obviously your new choice of car is something acura will never make. its a completely different segment. i can understand that you wanted an upgrade and you got it. good for you! its not that acura was always ahead of the curve in the past or more exciting than other brands. it was your own perception. as you get older your tastes and wants change. you wanted a rwd, v8, high line vehicle. will acura produce that? no.. its not what the brand is about. nothing wrong with that.
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Shoofin (01-17-2015)
01-04-2015, 02:01 PM
#27
Team Owner
people here are delusional. so you say acura has stopped innovating. its no longer an enthusiast brand. so what was so innovative about the 3G TL? I own 07 type-s and its okay but theres nothing about it screams enthusiast. its a freakin fwd drive car. the tech sucks. so whats so innovative about unique about the 3G?
OP obviously your new choice of car is something acura will never make. its a completely different segment. i can understand that you wanted an upgrade and you got it. good for you! its not that acura was always ahead of the curve in the past or more exciting than other brands. it was your own perception. as you get older your tastes and wants change. you wanted a rwd, v8, high line vehicle. will acura produce that? no.. its not what the brand is about. nothing wrong with that.
OP obviously your new choice of car is something acura will never make. its a completely different segment. i can understand that you wanted an upgrade and you got it. good for you! its not that acura was always ahead of the curve in the past or more exciting than other brands. it was your own perception. as you get older your tastes and wants change. you wanted a rwd, v8, high line vehicle. will acura produce that? no.. its not what the brand is about. nothing wrong with that.
Enthusiasts make up only a small group of car buyers, but they're the ones that spread the word about a brand. It was enthusiasts who turned me on to honda back in the day. The reason I got hooked was because of other enthusiasts.
Finally, acura seems to be all about the SH-AWD, which is all good, however, how much marketing do you see about it? It's the one thing that Acura has that is supposedly better than it's competition yet there's very little, if any, marketing for it.
01-04-2015, 02:06 PM
#28
this. acura has always been making a sensible premium brand that was reliable, high resell value, with a lot of standard equipment at a great price point for the masses it was never their goal to become "enthusiast brand". its just some people made it out that way. reminds me of boy racers who take civics and make them into something they were never intended to be. if you want a race car go buy a race car not a fwd flat form. i bought my types to be daily beater. i have my race car in garage.
01-04-2015, 02:09 PM
#29
Actually, in 07, the Type-S was a good car and had all the goodies, at least for its time. The type-S is sporty, it has a sporty suspension setup, can be had with a 6MT and LSD, puts down decent numbers (it doesn't have to be earth shaking- but better than the "base" car). But yes, being fwd is another acura fail. Luxury buyers want RWD over fwd.
The thing is, if you impress the enthusiasts, they will nag all others around them to buy, because if the enthusiasts are impressed, other buyers feel like they made a great choice, etc, etc. plus it's the enthusiast models that has people talking about a brand. How many people do you know who talk about the Chevy Impala? On the other hand, how many people do you know who talk about the Chevy Corvette? I bet it's a lot.
Enthusiasts make up only a small group of car buyers, but they're the ones that spread the word about a brand. It was enthusiasts who turned me on to honda back in the day. The reason I got hooked was because of other enthusiasts.
Finally, acura seems to be all about the SH-AWD, which is all good, however, how much marketing do you see about it? It's the one thing that Acura has that is supposedly better than it's competition yet there's very little, if any, marketing for it.
The thing is, if you impress the enthusiasts, they will nag all others around them to buy, because if the enthusiasts are impressed, other buyers feel like they made a great choice, etc, etc. plus it's the enthusiast models that has people talking about a brand. How many people do you know who talk about the Chevy Impala? On the other hand, how many people do you know who talk about the Chevy Corvette? I bet it's a lot.
Enthusiasts make up only a small group of car buyers, but they're the ones that spread the word about a brand. It was enthusiasts who turned me on to honda back in the day. The reason I got hooked was because of other enthusiasts.
Finally, acura seems to be all about the SH-AWD, which is all good, however, how much marketing do you see about it? It's the one thing that Acura has that is supposedly better than it's competition yet there's very little, if any, marketing for it.
01-04-2015, 02:10 PM
#30
whats funny is a very tiny small number of people are asking this brand to be what it never to begin with lol .
01-04-2015, 02:35 PM
#31
Rooting for Acura
iTrader: (1)
The thing is, if you impress the enthusiasts, they will nag all others around them to buy, because if the enthusiasts are impressed, other buyers feel like they made a great choice, etc, etc. plus it's the enthusiast models that has people talking about a brand. How many people do you know who talk about the Chevy Impala? On the other hand, how many people do you know who talk about the Chevy Corvette? I bet it's a lot.
01-04-2015, 02:46 PM
#32
Senior Moderator
A positive about my RLX hybrid: the nondescript styling means I can park it outside without fear for its being stolen. My S2000 and CTS-V are kept under lock and key at night.
01-04-2015, 06:35 PM
#33
Aint Doing Sh*t
I left Acura in '10 after being a fan ever since the 1996 Civic. While I loved my RDX. I don't see anything that Honda has to offer that will fit my needs besides the Odyssey. I actually wished that I had gotten an Evo X instead of the RDX but I wanted a small SUV. I think that if you haven't come to terms with the fact that they will only produce an enthusiast car within the confines of sales volume then you are fooling yourself. Fun to drive matters much less than supplying cars to the teachers of America and competing with Toyota and Kia.
01-04-2015, 06:50 PM
#34
Vanilla cars are the safe play, and the new Hondacura identity.
Occasionally they'll throw some chocolate sprinkles on a Civic or an Accord and try to make it interesting.
The Integra R was Triple Chocolate Rocky Road with Cocaine; and while a sliver of their production and market, the halo of FF to this day. Sadly they never learned how to refine from it, and all they now offer is an anemic Civic knock off in its place.
Occasionally they'll throw some chocolate sprinkles on a Civic or an Accord and try to make it interesting.
The Integra R was Triple Chocolate Rocky Road with Cocaine; and while a sliver of their production and market, the halo of FF to this day. Sadly they never learned how to refine from it, and all they now offer is an anemic Civic knock off in its place.
01-04-2015, 07:32 PM
#35
I agree a lot with what the original poster is saying, although I doubt that Honda cares.
There was a time when I was enraptured by everything Honda and Acura did. My first car in college was a 1990 Civic base model (not even the DX), although I lusted for the Civic Si Hatchback. I also had a 1992 Civic DX. My wife's first new car was a 1996 Accord EX. My second new car, right out of college, was a 1997 Integra GS-R (I crossed shopped the Integra with the 1997 Prelude). My parents bought Accords, my mother in-law had a 1991 Accord LX, 2002 Accord LX V6, a 2006 Accord LX V6, and a 2012 Honda CR-V. My sister-in-law also has an a 2012 Honda CR-V.
Somehow, after my 1997 Integra, I never came back to Honda until my 2013 TL SH-AWD. In my mind, Honda went form the premiere Japanese automaker to one that was definitely 2nd-rate to Toyota and Lexus. I bought my 2013 TL because it was such as bargain for what it had (the only 300hp AWD mid-size sports-sedan that's reliable enough to be a daily driver), but I would have taken a Lexus GS 350 F-sport in a heartbeat (except it was $15k more, comparatively equipped).
My next car is not likely to be a TLX. For my daily commuter to work, 90% of what I like about my TL is the fact that it has proven Accord genes, with the remaining 10% being the extra SH-AWD sport package on top. The TLX is still looking to appeal to those buyers looking for an Accord Sport V6 (like myself), while offering nothing for those who have progressed in age and income (also like myself). The RLX is a complete joke (I'd rather have a Hyundai Genesis) and not to be even mentioned. If I were to spend $55k on a car, it's not going to be a FWD economy-based sedan with the same engine as an Accord.
In my old age now (sarcastically), what I used to see in Toyota and Lexus as appealing only to retirees has begun to really appeal to myself (bulletproof reliability, impeccable engineering when it comes to knowing the target market, and road isolation while still maintaining decent handling for the non-street racer). My wife's next car is going to be a Highlander Limited Platinum (or Lexus RX), not a half-baked MDX with quality glitches and Honda-level service. Her current Highlander has served her extremely well, to the point that she is highly reluctant to break her bond with her 12 year old car. We would consider a Honda Odyssey Touring, but it has its hands full competing against the Toyota Sienna Limited AWD.
IMHO, what happened with Honda Motor Corporation is that, when the original founder (Soichiro Honda) died, the company completely lost its vision and became overrun by Marketing types and beancounters (I'm very familiar with those and have nothing but disdain for them in my current company), who cares only for short-term profits (to fatten their own wallets) and really didn't care if they were selling cars or instant coffee (like Hewlett-Packard, which when from being a highly respect technology icon to nothing more than an printer and PC company that competes with Acer and Lenovo). As a result, Honda went from being an Engineering-driven company with Formula-One engine expertise that trickled down to Preludes, Civics, and Accord, to a mass-market invisible Japanese GM that is really too small to excel at anything.
It's really sad what's happened to Honda, but I doubt Honda cares about your farewell... after all, all they care about is whether they can sell an extra Accord to fatten up their bonuses. Buyers like you and I are considered to be collateral damage.
There was a time when I was enraptured by everything Honda and Acura did. My first car in college was a 1990 Civic base model (not even the DX), although I lusted for the Civic Si Hatchback. I also had a 1992 Civic DX. My wife's first new car was a 1996 Accord EX. My second new car, right out of college, was a 1997 Integra GS-R (I crossed shopped the Integra with the 1997 Prelude). My parents bought Accords, my mother in-law had a 1991 Accord LX, 2002 Accord LX V6, a 2006 Accord LX V6, and a 2012 Honda CR-V. My sister-in-law also has an a 2012 Honda CR-V.
Somehow, after my 1997 Integra, I never came back to Honda until my 2013 TL SH-AWD. In my mind, Honda went form the premiere Japanese automaker to one that was definitely 2nd-rate to Toyota and Lexus. I bought my 2013 TL because it was such as bargain for what it had (the only 300hp AWD mid-size sports-sedan that's reliable enough to be a daily driver), but I would have taken a Lexus GS 350 F-sport in a heartbeat (except it was $15k more, comparatively equipped).
My next car is not likely to be a TLX. For my daily commuter to work, 90% of what I like about my TL is the fact that it has proven Accord genes, with the remaining 10% being the extra SH-AWD sport package on top. The TLX is still looking to appeal to those buyers looking for an Accord Sport V6 (like myself), while offering nothing for those who have progressed in age and income (also like myself). The RLX is a complete joke (I'd rather have a Hyundai Genesis) and not to be even mentioned. If I were to spend $55k on a car, it's not going to be a FWD economy-based sedan with the same engine as an Accord.
In my old age now (sarcastically), what I used to see in Toyota and Lexus as appealing only to retirees has begun to really appeal to myself (bulletproof reliability, impeccable engineering when it comes to knowing the target market, and road isolation while still maintaining decent handling for the non-street racer). My wife's next car is going to be a Highlander Limited Platinum (or Lexus RX), not a half-baked MDX with quality glitches and Honda-level service. Her current Highlander has served her extremely well, to the point that she is highly reluctant to break her bond with her 12 year old car. We would consider a Honda Odyssey Touring, but it has its hands full competing against the Toyota Sienna Limited AWD.
IMHO, what happened with Honda Motor Corporation is that, when the original founder (Soichiro Honda) died, the company completely lost its vision and became overrun by Marketing types and beancounters (I'm very familiar with those and have nothing but disdain for them in my current company), who cares only for short-term profits (to fatten their own wallets) and really didn't care if they were selling cars or instant coffee (like Hewlett-Packard, which when from being a highly respect technology icon to nothing more than an printer and PC company that competes with Acer and Lenovo). As a result, Honda went from being an Engineering-driven company with Formula-One engine expertise that trickled down to Preludes, Civics, and Accord, to a mass-market invisible Japanese GM that is really too small to excel at anything.
It's really sad what's happened to Honda, but I doubt Honda cares about your farewell... after all, all they care about is whether they can sell an extra Accord to fatten up their bonuses. Buyers like you and I are considered to be collateral damage.
01-04-2015, 07:45 PM
#36
tl type-s, so youre telling me it was some how superior to the g35 or gs350. integra gsr? lol you kidding me? it was a cute car. i think a lot of you guys have good ole day syndrome. i get it. one of your first cars was a Acura. you drove it for awhile now you want more... a lot more. like a AMG C63 more. just because Acura doesnt make a 500hp 90k+ vehicle doesnt make it a brand that doesnt have a focus lol. come on guys seriously.
i never understand the overrating of the acura tl type-s (and yes i own one!!), rsx type-s, integra type-s, cl types-s. i think the type-s thing has you guys thinking its something godly.
i never understand the overrating of the acura tl type-s (and yes i own one!!), rsx type-s, integra type-s, cl types-s. i think the type-s thing has you guys thinking its something godly.
01-04-2015, 07:49 PM
#37
Banned
I don't think that the TLX is worse than the TL 1st and 2nd gen. I actually prefer the styling of the 2nd, but I also prefer the more compact size of the TLX.
What really annoys me in the TLX is the absence of shifter is the versions that I would buy. The ILX is an enjoyable luxo little car (don't be put off by pics and mere specs). The MDX sells like hot cakes. The RDX is competent but too bland.
Which makes me regret the boldness that some Acura designs once had. Where is the Integra again?
What really annoys me in the TLX is the absence of shifter is the versions that I would buy. The ILX is an enjoyable luxo little car (don't be put off by pics and mere specs). The MDX sells like hot cakes. The RDX is competent but too bland.
Which makes me regret the boldness that some Acura designs once had. Where is the Integra again?
01-04-2015, 08:13 PM
#39
I don't think that the TLX is worse than the TL 1st and 2nd gen. I actually prefer the styling of the 2nd, but I also prefer the more compact size of the TLX.
What really annoys me in the TLX is the absence of shifter is the versions that I would buy. The ILX is an enjoyable luxo little car (don't be put off by pics and mere specs). The MDX sells like hot cakes. The RDX is competent but too bland.
Which makes me regret the boldness that some Acura designs once had. Where is the Integra again?
What really annoys me in the TLX is the absence of shifter is the versions that I would buy. The ILX is an enjoyable luxo little car (don't be put off by pics and mere specs). The MDX sells like hot cakes. The RDX is competent but too bland.
Which makes me regret the boldness that some Acura designs once had. Where is the Integra again?
01-04-2015, 08:34 PM
#40
the tlx is best mid size sedan acura has built to date. its faster, rides better, quieter, better tech, better fit and finish, better materials. if you like your older better and dont think its worth moving to a tlx fine. but if you think your older acura is better you are being delusional.
J35 Type S TL - 0-60 in 5.5-6.0
J37 SH-AWD TL - 0-60 in 5.5-6.0
J35 SH-AWD TLX - 0-60 in 5.5-6.0
That's 7 years of "performance progress".
TLX V6 Model Transmission failure in first 3 months of model sale. Halts sales because it won't stay in park. (Have they corrected this yet? Acura wouldn't even let me drive one in November)