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For one thing, a lot of times you see them in relative disrepair (lots of bumper scuffs, cheap mods, sagging suspension, bad tint, etc) which tells me the person doesn't necessarily care about having a nice car, they care about having a nice badge. Yeah, the guy with the clean, well maintained one? Enthusiast. How many of those do you REALLY see? And it's the same for scruffy Acura/Infiniti/Lexuses as well.
Originally Posted by knight rider
this.
I agree. If they are "scuffy" looking (great description BTW), they are probably just wanting a badge.
I personally do not give a rat ass about the "prestige" factor and if I like a particular old model I would buy it with no hesitation.
Furthermore some of these 10+ years old high end cars (talking an S Class or a 7 Series for example) often offer features that are still a novelty for example in the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry segment...and they still drive like an S Class...
That said, if you are really into the "prestige factor" game, yes you are not going to impress anyone with a decade old MB or Porsche and to people that value such things you may look pathetic.....who cares obviously but that is the truth.
To non car expert eyes, you may get away with a 5 years old model but pretty much everybody (again, talking about people that value such things) will laugh at a 10+ years Porsche Boxster or MB SL......if you want to play that game you need to constantly be on the treadmill....
To the young buck that rely on a badge bought for a song to pick up chicks sorry but a girl that fall for that sort of thing she may be dumb but she will recognize a 3 generations ago Porsche, then you need expensive clothes, etc....
Another practical aspect, obviously, is the possibility of horrendous repair bills in an old car even if well kept....it does not matter if you paid less than 10K for that S Class....in the repair shop it's still an S Class not an Accord...
Like someone already said, you may pull that off (the prestige factor) with an old rare exotic like a Ferrari or a Lambo....
Interesting topic for me because I have a very good friend of mine that she is trying to break it as a paint artist and interior designer for very wealthy Asian clients (she already landed few good deals) and these people are absolutely obsessed with status and brands.
She needs a new car and she wants a 2 door and preferably 2 seater, she obviously has a budget and she does not want to change cars all the time.....she does not need to "impress" but she want a somewhat "adequate" vehicle and asked me for advice.....she was thinking about an used SL, or 6 Series or a Porsche but I instead advised her to get a C6 Corvette (which she love by the way) because first of all the Vette has a beautiful iconic design that resists better the test of time (like a 911) compared to many other sports car, it will be somewhat easier on the wallet compared to a high end German iron and it does not have a prestigious brand to begin with so people will not think you are playing the "badge on the cheap" game in the first place....
I think a used Lexus IS or GS will fit her requirement better than a C6.
Reliable, cheaper to repair, good on gas and offer somewhat the brand that she needs to make her job somewhat easier.
a C6, especially with a female driver usually gives out a different perception. I like it, especially if it was stick. But i am not sure if her rich Asian clients will see the same way.
next time when it comes to anything Asian, ask me, Yumcha and Kimchi first.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-25-2015 at 03:05 AM.
ABSOLUTELY. Old cars still hold a ton of prestige when they are well preserved. It speaks to the level of care and pride that the owners have taken in maintaining it. I get way more compliments on my 21-year-old Acura Legend than I do in my 2-year-old Acura ILX.
As stated before, that's because the design is much nicer than ILX's. Being an older car, they are also more rare, which decreases the staleness. These things are independent of prestige.
I doubt they see you any wealthier in the Legend than in the ILX.
Interesting topic for me because I have a very good friend of mine that she is trying to break it as a paint artist and interior designer for very wealthy Asian clients (she already landed few good deals) and these people are absolutely obsessed with status and brands.
She needs a new car and she wants a 2 door and preferably 2 seater, she obviously has a budget and she does not want to change cars all the time.....she does not need to "impress" but she want a somewhat "adequate" vehicle and asked me for advice.....she was thinking about an used SL, or 6 Series or a Porsche but I instead advised her to get a C6 Corvette (which she love by the way) because first of all the Vette has a beautiful iconic design that resists better the test of time (like a 911) compared to many other sports car, it will be somewhat easier on the wallet compared to a high end German iron and it does not have a prestigious brand to begin with so people will not think you are playing the "badge on the cheap" game in the first place....
Since we're painting people with broad strokes, I'll make a few generalizations that are mostly true.
The vast majority of East and Southeast Asian people who are obsessed with wealth, status, and brands actually have none of the three. Their perception of an exclusive brand is shaped by what others around them think. And the truly wealthy don't show it off.
For example, in watches, Rolex is king. They wouldn't know what IWC is, and even if they did, IWC has no value to them because nobody else in their peer group would know what IWC is.
I can't dive much into clothes because I don't know my way around there. I know their kids wear Lucky Brand jeans...
Among cars, Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW (in that order) are tops. Even an entry model from one of these brands is inherently higher class than anything that isn't from these brands. You can come to Chinatown here in Houston and see the vast numbers of Lexus ES and MB C-Class being driven around. I have tons of personal observations and stories since I am Asian, but also interact with this world quite a lot as an attorney.
Since we're painting people with broad strokes, I'll make a few generalizations that are mostly true.
The vast majority of East and Southeast Asian people who are obsessed with wealth, status, and brands actually have none of the three. Their perception of an exclusive brand is shaped by what others around them think. And the truly wealthy don't show it off.
For example, in watches, Rolex is king. They wouldn't know what IWC is, and even if they did, IWC has no value to them because nobody else in their peer group would know what IWC is.
I can't dive much into clothes because I don't know my way around there. I know their kids wear Lucky Brand jeans...
Among cars, Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW (in that order) are tops. Even an entry model from one of these brands is inherently higher class than anything that isn't from these brands. You can come to Chinatown here in Houston and see the vast numbers of Lexus ES and MB C-Class being driven around. I have tons of personal observations and stories since I am Asian, but also interact with this world quite a lot as an attorney.
I can only tell you from personal experience, in the Pacific Northwest there are a lot of real wealthy Asian people (multi million dollar homes) and they do like it to show it off...I agree that usually the only brands they are obsessed about are the "mass market luxury" (allow me the term), your Rolex example is very true, some way higher level less known watch brands may be unknown to them (I suspect not many know what a Panerai is)
Some roads in Vancouver BC are turned into a permanent luxury car dealer lot and we are talking about Lambo, Bentley, very high end Mercedes, Porsche....I suspect these cars are not bought on 60 months loans.....
An acquaintance owned one probably the highest end clothing store in Vancouver so I can tell you some of the spending patterns and the vast majority of clients are Asians.
I can only tell you from personal experience, in the Pacific Northwest there are a lot of real wealthy Asian people (multi million dollar homes) and they do like it to show it off...I agree that usually the only brands they are obsessed about are the "mass market luxury" (allow me the term), your Rolex example is very true, some way higher level less known watch brands may be unknown to them (I suspect not many know what a Panerai is)
Some roads in Vancouver BC are turned into a permanent luxury car dealer lot and we are talking about Lambo, Bentley, very high end Mercedes, Porsche....I suspect these cars are not bought on 60 months loans.....
An acquaintance owned one probably the highest end clothing store in Vancouver so I can tell you some of the spending patterns and the vast majority of clients are Asians.
17 year old foreign students are driving Lambos and Ferraris in Vancouver. Parents ship their kids off to school, buy them places and cars, send them A LOT of money monthly. They go and spend it on expensive clothes and other luxuries.
There was an incident where there was a bunch of exotics blocking off the highway so they can race, 10 or more cars, all foreign students from China, oldest one was 19, most of them under 18. Few of them were girls too
I can only tell you from personal experience, in the Pacific Northwest there are a lot of real wealthy Asian people (multi million dollar homes) and they do like it to show it off...I agree that usually the only brands they are obsessed about are the "mass market luxury" (allow me the term), your Rolex example is very true, some way higher level less known watch brands may be unknown to them (I suspect not many know what a Panerai is)
Some roads in Vancouver BC are turned into a permanent luxury car dealer lot and we are talking about Lambo, Bentley, very high end Mercedes, Porsche....I suspect these cars are not bought on 60 months loans.....
An acquaintance owned one probably the highest end clothing store in Vancouver so I can tell you some of the spending patterns and the vast majority of clients are Asians.
in the heart of LA.. example (Arcadia, San Marino), multi-million will get you a 2000 sqft single family house with little to no yard.
A 1,500 sqft condo will cost you close to 1 million.
17 year old foreign students are driving Lambos and Ferraris in Vancouver. Parents ship their kids off to school, buy them places and cars, send them A LOT of money monthly. They go and spend it on expensive clothes and other luxuries.
There was an incident where there was a bunch of exotics blocking off the highway so they can race, 10 or more cars, all foreign students from China, oldest one was 19, most of them under 18. Few of them were girls too
That is how my discussion with Yumcha went.
LA and Vancouver are like mirror images when it comes to things like that now.
The annoying thing about them is not their $, it is their "My parents have more $$ than you" mentality.
I always see people with temp tags on old big bodied luxury cars and think the same, who are you impressing and how the hell are you going to afford the repairs. Typically, these cars end up looking like this and then I really don't get it.
well if you ask me, the original question "Do old status cars still hold prestige?" can be answered undoubtably, yes, in light of car shows like Monterey or Villa D'Este.
<p> <img alt="" src="https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif" title="Eek" /> Typo? I hope so b/c at that point you're better off driving it into the ground, saving that money, and getting a new one <img alt="" src="https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" title="Smile" /><br /><br />Our E350 has been out of warranty for about 2.5 years now or so and it costs us ~$500 for maintenance annually plus tires every 2-3 years or so (bought it in Jan of 2011, about to put our second set of tires on). She is due for brakes soon, so that will change that number... but brakes are not an annual maintenance item, so I'm not worried about that and we know it's coming. As for fuel economy... it gets the best of any in the garage at 25-27mph, higher when all highway cruising...</p>
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
ho lee fuk.
That is not even worth the trouble to keep it running.
Originally Posted by ttribe
$55,000? Was the entire drivetrain replaced, plus the car repainted, plus the entire interior re-done, plus a completely new suspension, plus gold plating the dash? That number just doesn't make any sense.
I've posted it a few times but a quick recap of repairs:
3 Harman Kardon Logic 7 Amplifiers
1 Front subwoofer
2 Audio System Controllers
1 Idrive Controller
1 Navigation Screen
1 Waterpump
6 Coolant Leak Repairs (one of which was 96 hours for labor alone) (many broken plastic pieces with lots of labor involved)
2 Camshaft position sensor failures and repairs
5 new low pressure fuel pumps and fuel sensors
3 fuel lines
2 fuel filters
2 Steering Angle Sensors
2 Transmissions +5-6 bandaid fixes for getting the rear-ended feeling on 2->1 downshift.
1 Hydraulic rear sway bar replaced ($2K)
3 sets of front control arms
5 Short Circuited Door handles that drained the battery (pre-painted from BMW)
3 no-start repair attempts that replaced 4 computers costing the warranty 3K
2 Time hydraulic trunk repair, 1 of which was a massive leak and required replacement of the DVD drive for the nav system, 6 disk DVD changer, Video Module and a few other items back there. Tech pulled out approx. 12 oz of hydraulic fluid from the electronics and cleanup.
That does not including having to push the 760 out of an intersection after it stalled due camshaft sensor failure. Waited 30 minutes and after a few restarts it finally turned on and the CEL was gone. Got to BMW and no code or anything. I had it on video and got BMW to investigate and diagnose for me.
Not included was all the loaner cars I had while waiting on obscure parts. Most of the repairs were done after the 30K mark with a majority of the major ones starting after 50K.
You can see how hard it is to work on the engine, almost no room to move without removing everything:
This sums it up best:
It's like dating a Victoria's Secret Model Addicted to Cocaine and Heroin. The Highs are mighty high and the lows are mighty low.
ERrrk! they dont stop, they keep spinnin'
i'm riddin' spinners, I'm riddin' Spinners.
Pedal to the metal then STOP, Errrk!
Take another sip from the syrup then STOP, Errrk!
Let my seat back, drop the top then STOP, ErrrK!
See me something sexy, spot that ass I gotta STOP, Errrk!
My rims so shiny they clear like flat-screen plasma
Gals break when they see em' it's hard to breathe like they got asthma
Older people trippin' cause they think they seein' thangs
My car sittin' still but my rims still rolin' man, they off the chain
I've posted it a few times but a quick recap of repairs:
3 Harman Kardon Logic 7 Amplifiers
1 Front subwoofer
2 Audio System Controllers
1 Idrive Controller
1 Navigation Screen
1 Waterpump
6 Coolant Leak Repairs (one of which was 96 hours for labor alone) (many broken plastic pieces with lots of labor involved)
2 Camshaft position sensor failures and repairs
5 new low pressure fuel pumps and fuel sensors
3 fuel lines
2 fuel filters
2 Steering Angle Sensors
2 Transmissions +5-6 bandaid fixes for getting the rear-ended feeling on 2->1 downshift.
1 Hydraulic rear sway bar replaced ($2K)
3 sets of front control arms
5 Short Circuited Door handles that drained the battery (pre-painted from BMW)
3 no-start repair attempts that replaced 4 computers costing the warranty 3K
2 Time hydraulic trunk repair, 1 of which was a massive leak and required replacement of the DVD drive for the nav system, 6 disk DVD changer, Video Module and a few other items back there. Tech pulled out approx. 12 oz of hydraulic fluid from the electronics and cleanup.
That does not including having to push the 760 out of an intersection after it stalled due camshaft sensor failure. Waited 30 minutes and after a few restarts it finally turned on and the CEL was gone. Got to BMW and no code or anything. I had it on video and got BMW to investigate and diagnose for me.
Not included was all the loaner cars I had while waiting on obscure parts. Most of the repairs were done after the 30K mark with a majority of the major ones starting after 50K.
You can see how hard it is to work on the engine, almost no room to move without removing everything:
This sums it up best:
It's like dating a Victoria's Secret Model Addicted to Cocaine and Heroin. The Highs are mighty high and the lows are mighty low.
Was this out of pocket? If so, you should have dumped it and just got another one.
I've posted it a few times but a quick recap of repairs:
3 Harman Kardon Logic 7 Amplifiers
1 Front subwoofer
2 Audio System Controllers
1 Idrive Controller
1 Navigation Screen
1 Waterpump
6 Coolant Leak Repairs (one of which was 96 hours for labor alone) (many broken plastic pieces with lots of labor involved)
2 Camshaft position sensor failures and repairs
5 new low pressure fuel pumps and fuel sensors
3 fuel lines
2 fuel filters
2 Steering Angle Sensors
2 Transmissions +5-6 bandaid fixes for getting the rear-ended feeling on 2->1 downshift.
1 Hydraulic rear sway bar replaced ($2K)
3 sets of front control arms
5 Short Circuited Door handles that drained the battery (pre-painted from BMW)
3 no-start repair attempts that replaced 4 computers costing the warranty 3K
2 Time hydraulic trunk repair, 1 of which was a massive leak and required replacement of the DVD drive for the nav system, 6 disk DVD changer, Video Module and a few other items back there. Tech pulled out approx. 12 oz of hydraulic fluid from the electronics and cleanup.
That does not including having to push the 760 out of an intersection after it stalled due camshaft sensor failure.
Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME
He has had all of these repairs done under his extended warranty..........................
Geeze, I hope so.
Remember to dump that 760 either one month or 500 miles before the extended warranty ends!
I've posted it a few times but a quick recap of repairs:
3 Harman Kardon Logic 7 Amplifiers
1 Front subwoofer
2 Audio System Controllers
1 Idrive Controller
1 Navigation Screen
1 Waterpump
6 Coolant Leak Repairs (one of which was 96 hours for labor alone) (many broken plastic pieces with lots of labor involved)
2 Camshaft position sensor failures and repairs
5 new low pressure fuel pumps and fuel sensors
3 fuel lines
2 fuel filters
2 Steering Angle Sensors
2 Transmissions +5-6 bandaid fixes for getting the rear-ended feeling on 2->1 downshift.
1 Hydraulic rear sway bar replaced ($2K)
3 sets of front control arms
5 Short Circuited Door handles that drained the battery (pre-painted from BMW)
3 no-start repair attempts that replaced 4 computers costing the warranty 3K
2 Time hydraulic trunk repair, 1 of which was a massive leak and required replacement of the DVD drive for the nav system, 6 disk DVD changer, Video Module and a few other items back there. Tech pulled out approx. 12 oz of hydraulic fluid from the electronics and cleanup.
That does not including having to push the 760 out of an intersection after it stalled due camshaft sensor failure. Waited 30 minutes and after a few restarts it finally turned on and the CEL was gone. Got to BMW and no code or anything. I had it on video and got BMW to investigate and diagnose for me.
Not included was all the loaner cars I had while waiting on obscure parts. Most of the repairs were done after the 30K mark with a majority of the major ones starting after 50K.
You can see how hard it is to work on the engine, almost no room to move without removing everything:
This sums it up best:
It's like dating a Victoria's Secret Model Addicted to Cocaine and Heroin. The Highs are mighty high and the lows are mighty low.
I've posted it a few times but a quick recap of repairs:
3 Harman Kardon Logic 7 Amplifiers
1 Front subwoofer
2 Audio System Controllers
1 Idrive Controller
1 Navigation Screen
1 Waterpump
6 Coolant Leak Repairs (one of which was 96 hours for labor alone) (many broken plastic pieces with lots of labor involved)
2 Camshaft position sensor failures and repairs
5 new low pressure fuel pumps and fuel sensors
3 fuel lines
2 fuel filters
2 Steering Angle Sensors
2 Transmissions +5-6 bandaid fixes for getting the rear-ended feeling on 2->1 downshift.
1 Hydraulic rear sway bar replaced ($2K)
3 sets of front control arms
5 Short Circuited Door handles that drained the battery (pre-painted from BMW)
3 no-start repair attempts that replaced 4 computers costing the warranty 3K
2 Time hydraulic trunk repair, 1 of which was a massive leak and required replacement of the DVD drive for the nav system, 6 disk DVD changer, Video Module and a few other items back there. Tech pulled out approx. 12 oz of hydraulic fluid from the electronics and cleanup.
That does not including having to push the 760 out of an intersection after it stalled due camshaft sensor failure. Waited 30 minutes and after a few restarts it finally turned on and the CEL was gone. Got to BMW and no code or anything. I had it on video and got BMW to investigate and diagnose for me.
Not included was all the loaner cars I had while waiting on obscure parts. Most of the repairs were done after the 30K mark with a majority of the major ones starting after 50K.
You can see how hard it is to work on the engine, almost no room to move without removing everything:
This sums it up best:
It's like dating a Victoria's Secret Model Addicted to Cocaine and Heroin. The Highs are mighty high and the lows are mighty low.
On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me a 750 with extended warranty
Does this thread apply to kids who buy the old Acura RL , or is it just a german car thread?
I don't personally feel it'd apply. The RL, although luxurious, IMO isn't flashy enough. I've always considered it an understated cary. It doesn't try to make the same statement as say a MB or BMW. Just MO.
I don't personally feel it'd apply. The RL, although luxurious, IMO isn't flashy enough. I've always considered it an understated cary. It doesn't try to make the same statement as say a MB or BMW. Just MO.
Agreed. I wouldn't even apply it to someone who buys a new RL
And csmeance, that's crazy! We've owned a few Germans (including one current car) and combined they've cost us $0 outside of consumables. Yikes!!
Agreed. I wouldn't even apply it to someone who buys a new RL
And csmeance, that's crazy! We've owned a few Germans (including one current car) and combined they've cost us $0 outside of consumables. Yikes!!
Csmenace's experience is exactly why many people lease BMW's instead of buy them. Owning one outside of it's warranty coverage can be an extremely expensive proposition. Under lease you pay for gas and the lease payment, everything else is BMW's expense.
When I worked for Acura we had our BMW sister store right next to us. At Acura we did about 30% lease and 70% buy. BMW was doing the exact opposite, 70% lease and 30% buy. They also had favorable leasing at the time. You could get a 530 for roughly the same lease price as a TL even though the MSRP on the 530 was significantly higher.
Csmenace's experience is exactly why many people lease BMW's instead of buy them. Owning one outside of it's warranty coverage can be an extremely expensive proposition. Under lease you pay for gas and the lease payment, everything else is BMW's expense.
When I worked for Acura we had our BMW sister store right next to us. At Acura we did about 30% lease and 70% buy. BMW was doing the exact opposite, 70% lease and 30% buy. They also had favorable leasing at the time. You could get a 530 for roughly the same lease price as a TL even though the MSRP on the 530 was significantly higher.
BMW is the one German brand I've been a little gun shy with. We've owned Audi, Porsche, and Mercedes (current) and have owned each out of warranty for a time (Mercedes is the longest at 2 years) and all have been bulletproof. We've yet to consider BMW...
09-24-2015, 10:18 AM
Poor XJ
I knew you had a lot of repairs but 
