When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
We have been driving BMW's for nearly 2 decades, our 3 series cars always with a 6 speed tranny. Now the only cars you can get a row-your-own in is the 2 (go cart) and 4 (FUUUUUUUUUUUGLY). There's literally no other cars we can consider buying now in this list.
4 series is fugly? Wow I think they're pretty great looking, but looks are subjective I suppose. But like Aman said, the writing's been on the wall for a very long time. Looking at that list, a few surprised me, especially the Genesis G70. I had no clue you could get that in a manual.
I'll buy a Carrera S manual in 2-3 years and I'd consider a 718 manual as well, however, this car would be my wife's daily driver and she doesn't want or need such a car.
4 series is fugly? Wow I think they're pretty great looking, but looks are subjective I suppose. But like Aman said, the writing's been on the wall for a very long time. Looking at that list, a few surprised me, especially the Genesis G70. I had no clue you could get that in a manual.
A lot of cars on that list had their manuals removed recently. The Honda Accord, The Honda Civic (outside of SI and Type R), The Honda Fit, The Toyota Yaris, The BMW 4 series, The Chevy Corvette, The Genesis G70 (as you mentioned), and those are just the cars I am aware of, there could be more.
I predict by 2025 all cars will be automatic. It's a dying option that nobody outside of a few select enthusiast (myself included in that) want.
A lot of cars on that list had their manuals removed recently. The Honda Accord, The Honda Civic (outside of SI and Type R), The Honda Fit, The Toyota Yaris, The BMW 4 series, The Chevy Corvette, The Genesis G70 (as you mentioned), and those are just the cars I am aware of, there could be more.
I predict by 2025 all cars will be automatic. It's a dying option that nobody outside of a few select enthusiast (myself included in that) want.
Right there with you (and others). Last automatic I owned was a car I bought from my Dad in 1985! Traded it in in 1988 and have been selecting my own gears ever since. Am waiting to see what the 2021 TLX Type S is like when it comes out, but know it doesn't have a manual. As mentioned, not many options out there. Sigh...........
I actually think manual transmissions are showing a bit of resilience, but are becoming very targeted. Porsche sold the 911 GT3 without a manual briefly, then reintroduced it. You can get a manual on cars like the new Aston Vantage, GTI/Golf R, M3/M4 and 400Z. Those cars could have come automatic only and we wouldn't be surprised. It's very unlikely cars like Mustang, STi, or 86s will be offered without a manual anytime soon.
Where we're seeing manuals die most is around non-sport oriented cars. Family sedans and compact cars that aren't some sport trim are the ones that get killed. I've had a Jetta, Accord, Mazda6 and a Passat all with a manual. Those are what won't be an option in the future.
One day the manual transmission will die, but it won't be in 5 years.
It does really suck that the sport luxury segment is losing the manual transmission. I'd love to consider an S4 or 3 series. Isn't the next M3 the last one to be available in manual?
My next car list is very short because of this. Especially since Ford dropped their cars and hot hatches. VW Golf R is the most tried and tested... who knows about the new motor in the STi and how well that will perform reliably.
Back in High School one of my friends always had access to her Mom's 67 Mustang convertible with a 3 speed.
I also had a friend who had access to his Mom's 74 Gremlin with a 4 speed. They did however, upgrade the Gremlin to an early 80s Celica GT with a 5 speed.
Back in High School one of my friends always had access to her Mom's 67 Mustang convertible with a 3 speed.
I also had a friend who had access to his Mom's 74 Gremlin with a 4 speed. They did however, upgrade the Gremlin to an early 80s Celica GT with a 5 speed.
When I got out of the Marine Corps back in the late 1970s the first thing I did was buy a 1970 Dodge Challenger SE with about 100,000 miles on it. This was a San Diego car, so literally zero rust and a perfectly clean body and I jumped at the chance to buy it for only $700. Yes, it was only running on seven cylinders, and yes, it had, ummm, a "three on the floor" (not the same ring as "three on the tree" or "four on the floor"), and yes, I had no clue how to drive a car with a manual transmission. The guy I bought it from told me he'd teach me how to do it, but when I went to pick it up he said, "Sorry, I have a date; gotta go!" Yeesh! Fortunately he lived on a hill and there was a large and empty Pep Boys parking lot at the bottom of the hill; I popped the car in neutral, rolled it down the hill, and spent an hour practicing. I've been driving a "stick" ever since.
Epilogue: As for the Challenger, I ended up finding a 340 Six-Pack from a rear-ended AAR Cuda which crushed the car up to the steering wheel (I assume it was a fatal, errr, unless the car was parked when it got hit) and was able to buy he motor, shaker scoop included, for $600. I was stupid enough to drop that motor into my Challenger and bolt it up to the 3-Speed manual, and then three things happened; I got four speeding tickets in a month, the wide ratio three-speed and the soft 318 clutch were no match for the power of the 340, and the clutch was toasted in a matter of weeks, and then the final straw, the tranny let go shortly after my fourth ticket. With my driving privileges now suspended for a few months, I spent my time yanking that wonderful 340 (and selling it for $1,200) and that abysmal excuse for a manual transmission and set about building the car to be my daily driver for the next four years. In the end I found a New Process 4-Speed from a Super-Bee (which required enlarging the pinion cap hole in the bell housing, but was otherwise an exact bolt in replacement for the 3-Speed), which I mated to my original 318 engine (but with the heads gone over and ported to line up with a dual-plane 340 4-BBL intake manifold), and a nice Holley carburetor.
When I got out of the Marine Corps back in the late 1970s the first thing I did was buy a 1970 Dodge Challenger SE with about 100,000 miles on it. This was a San Diego car, so literally zero rust and a perfectly clean body and I jumped at the chance to buy it for only $700. Yes, it was only running on seven cylinders, and yes, it had, ummm, a "three on the floor" (not the same ring as "three on the tree" or "four on the floor"), and yes, I had no clue how to drive a car with a manual transmission. The guy I bought it from told me he'd teach me how to do it, but when I went to pick it up he said, "Sorry, I have a date; gotta go!" Yeesh! Fortunately he lived on a hill and there was a large and empty Pep Boys parking lot at the bottom of the hill; I popped the car in neutral, rolled it down the hill, and spent an hour practicing. I've been driving a "stick" ever since.
Similar story. Bought a TR3A in 1960 & taught myself how to drive stick on the way home. Always had at least 1 MT car since then. Current COBRA replica 5MT, BMW 135IS 6MT, Ranger 4X4 5MT.
That said the field is getting very small. Was going to hold out for a M4 till I saw the grill which killed plan A. Defaulted to plan B sucked it up & got the Z4 with an 8ZF. In a few cycles if you want an MT you will have to build your own car.
Similar story. Bought a TR3A in 1960 & taught myself how to drive stick on the way home. Always had at least 1 MT car since then. Current COBRA replica 5MT, BMW 135IS 6MT, Ranger 4X4 5MT.
That said the field is getting very small. Was going to hold out for a M4 till I saw the grill which killed plan A. Defaulted to plan B sucked it up & got the Z4 with an 8ZF. In a few cycles if you want an MT you will have to build your own car.
I really want to get a 4th car with a MT. I miss owning one. Maybe I'll buy something like a Focus RS or something along those lines just for the fun of a manual. Or if I can find a G70 6MT for cheap(er) that might not be a bad play either.
NASCAR which a few seasons ago discovered a thing called Fuel Injection has made two more scientific breakthroughs. The independent rear suspension & the sequential transmission which will be on the next generation of cars.
^ Mixed feelings on the next generation NASCAR cars. On the one hand, I think they look great and sound awesome. But I think the manual transmission and multilug wheels were part of the sport's charm.
As long as they still offer 6mt on the M2, M3 and M4, i am ok. Relatively speaking, BMW is still pretty good at keeping its 6mt even with the lower selling #s. You can't even get 6mt in Audi and Mercedes anymore almost in any of their cars...
I would not even consider 6mt on cars like 540/550 or M5 or 8 series any way even if they offered. Those cars have become too "soft" for 6mt...
Now the problem with the new M3/M4 is its looks.... Now you have to decide just how much you want that 6mt.. if you want it badly enough, you can get past its ugliness.... dont judge the book by its cover
Last edited by oonowindoo; 11-20-2020 at 03:44 PM.
I really want to get a 4th car with a MT. I miss owning one. Maybe I'll buy something like a Focus RS or something along those lines just for the fun of a manual. Or if I can find a G70 6MT for cheap(er) that might not be a bad play either.
When i have enough garage space, i will find a S2K...
or a used current Gen WRX... those things are very nice to drive, especially the 6mt and its clutch feel.. reminds me of Honda... I like it a loooot more than the previous Gens
When I got out of the Marine Corps back in the late 1970s the first thing I did was buy a 1970 Dodge Challenger SE with about 100,000 miles on it. This was a San Diego car, so literally zero rust and a perfectly clean body and I jumped at the chance to buy it for only $700. Yes, it was only running on seven cylinders, and yes, it had, ummm, a "three on the floor" (not the same ring as "three on the tree" or "four on the floor"), and yes, I had no clue how to drive a car with a manual transmission. The guy I bought it from told me he'd teach me how to do it, but when I went to pick it up he said, "Sorry, I have a date; gotta go!" Yeesh! Fortunately he lived on a hill and there was a large and empty Pep Boys parking lot at the bottom of the hill; I popped the car in neutral, rolled it down the hill, and spent an hour practicing. I've been driving a "stick" ever since.
Epilogue: As for the Challenger, I ended up finding a 340 Six-Pack from a rear-ended AAR Cuda which crushed the car up to the steering wheel (I assume it was a fatal, errr, unless the car was parked when it got hit) and was able to buy he motor, shaker scoop included, for $600. I was stupid enough to drop that motor into my Challenger and bolt it up to the 3-Speed manual, and then three things happened; I got four speeding tickets in a month, the wide ratio three-speed and the soft 318 clutch were no match for the power of the 340, and the clutch was toasted in a matter of weeks, and then the final straw, the tranny let go shortly after my fourth ticket. With my driving privileges now suspended for a few months, I spent my time yanking that wonderful 340 (and selling it for $1,200) and that abysmal excuse for a manual transmission and set about building the car to be my daily driver for the next four years. In the end I found a New Process 4-Speed from a Super-Bee (which required enlarging the pinion cap hole in the bell housing, but was otherwise an exact bolt in replacement for the 3-Speed), which I mated to my original 318 engine (but with the heads gone over and ported to line up with a dual-plane 340 4-BBL intake manifold), and a nice Holley carburetor.
As long as they still offer 6mt on the M2, M3 and M4, i am ok. Relatively speaking, BMW is still pretty good at keeping its 6mt even with the lower selling #s. You can't even get 6mt in Audi and Mercedes anymore almost in any of their cars...
I would not even consider 6mt on cars like 540/550 or M5 or 8 series any way even if they offered.
Now the problem with the new M3/M4 is its looks.... Now you have to decide just how much you want that 6mt.. if you want it badly enough, you can get past its ugliness.... dont judge the book by its cover
I can't get over the face. At this point, if I'm going to stay auto, I'm going electric. R1T here I come.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
When i have enough garage space, i will find a S2K...
or a used current Gen WRX... those things are very nice to drive, especially the 6mt and its clutch feel.. reminds me of Honda... I like it a loooot more than the previous Gens
I forgot about those...they depreciate faster than my other options. Will look more lol. Problem right now is that used car prices are absolute insanity.
As much as I loved my S2k, I want a different experience. Unless the current owner of my S2k wants to sell it back to me (which I would buy at that point), I'm moving on.
^ Mixed feelings on the next generation NASCAR cars. On the one hand, I think they look great and sound awesome. But I think the manual transmission and multilug wheels were part of the sport's charm.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Another MT bites the dust.
Next Generation NASCAR released
NASCAR which a few seasons ago discovered a thing called Fuel Injection has made two more scientific breakthroughs. The independent rear suspension & the sequential transmission which will be on the next generation of cars.
Technically, a sequential gearbox is a manual transmission.
Just that it uses a mechanical shift drum to move the synchro forks around vs. a H pattern selector.
It's not gonna be like F1, where they have paddle shifters. AFAIK, there is a sequential shift level and clutch pedal similar in operation to a motorcycle except reverse the hand/foot operation.
What is cool about the gearbox is it'll be a rear transaxle (integrated differential and gearbox) so it's in the rear integrated with the IRS as well. Help with weight distribution and move the engine more rearward I'm guessing.
Still gonna be weird with a rear transaxle AND 6 gears, looks pretty neat though supposedly a variant of the Australian touring car series Xtrac gearbox.
When I got out of the Marine Corps back in the late 1970s the first thing I did was buy a 1970 Dodge Challenger SE with about 100,000 miles on it. This was a San Diego car, so literally zero rust and a perfectly clean body and I jumped at the chance to buy it for only $700. Yes, it was only running on seven cylinders, and yes, it had, ummm, a "three on the floor" (not the same ring as "three on the tree" or "four on the floor"), and yes, I had no clue how to drive a car with a manual transmission. The guy I bought it from told me he'd teach me how to do it, but when I went to pick it up he said, "Sorry, I have a date; gotta go!" Yeesh! Fortunately he lived on a hill and there was a large and empty Pep Boys parking lot at the bottom of the hill; I popped the car in neutral, rolled it down the hill, and spent an hour practicing. I've been driving a "stick" ever since.
Epilogue: As for the Challenger, I ended up finding a 340 Six-Pack from a rear-ended AAR Cuda which crushed the car up to the steering wheel (I assume it was a fatal, errr, unless the car was parked when it got hit) and was able to buy he motor, shaker scoop included, for $600. I was stupid enough to drop that motor into my Challenger and bolt it up to the 3-Speed manual, and then three things happened; I got four speeding tickets in a month, the wide ratio three-speed and the soft 318 clutch were no match for the power of the 340, and the clutch was toasted in a matter of weeks, and then the final straw, the tranny let go shortly after my fourth ticket. With my driving privileges now suspended for a few months, I spent my time yanking that wonderful 340 (and selling it for $1,200) and that abysmal excuse for a manual transmission and set about building the car to be my daily driver for the next four years. In the end I found a New Process 4-Speed from a Super-Bee (which required enlarging the pinion cap hole in the bell housing, but was otherwise an exact bolt in replacement for the 3-Speed), which I mated to my original 318 engine (but with the heads gone over and ported to line up with a dual-plane 340 4-BBL intake manifold), and a nice Holley carburetor.
Parts of your story here are very similar to my cousin. He also had a 70 Challenger and got lousy gas mileage because it sat idling on the side of the road in front of a local cruiser with lights flashing . He and his roomate drove to and from college between NJ and MI.
He tells a great story where he fell asleep while his roommate drove and proceeded to drive 400 miles out of their way. There are other stories but that is the one that sticks with me.
Back on topic he also had a 76 Vega with a 4 speed and part of my indoctrination to a manual transmission was in his 79 RS Camaro. I don't remember specifically but believe he got the RS over the Z28 because of the manual transmission - again, not sure.
Technically, a sequential gearbox is a manual transmission.
Just that it uses a mechanical shift drum to move the synchro forks around vs. a H pattern selector.
It's not gonna be like F1, where they have paddle shifters. AFAIK, there is a sequential shift level and clutch pedal similar in operation to a motorcycle except reverse the hand/foot operation.
What is cool about the gearbox is it'll be a rear transaxle (integrated differential and gearbox) so it's in the rear integrated with the IRS as well. Help with weight distribution and move the engine more rearward I'm guessing.
Still gonna be weird with a rear transaxle AND 6 gears, looks pretty neat though supposedly a variant of the Australian touring car series Xtrac gearbox.
Yeah a DCT also has a manual gear box but with electronic shifting control. The difference between a PDK & a Porsche manual are just a few parts. Think in the Australian series P1293 series can be configured with a stick shifter, pneumatic (paddle's) or electronic (paddles) shifting. IIRC the only time any of these configurations use a clutch is to engage 1st gear.
Well some people are "drivers" and other people are "passengers".
I can see the point to PDKs...on the track where all things being equal, they will likely provide lower times, but I am not on the track with money coming my way. Plus I would not drive a sports car to and from work in bumper to bumper traffic....duhhh.
Yeah a PDK is 0.4 seconds faster to 60, but who cares. I am hung and not worried about getting to the next red light first. LOL
Technically, a sequential gearbox is a manual transmission.
As found on all motorcycles.
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Australian touring car series...
I am in Australia every winter (their summer) and got to see a race in Bathurst on TV. Damn good racing and a great track. I can't remember what year it was (a few years back) and the dual right to the end was spectacular. That is what I call racing.
Last edited by Tech; 11-21-2020 at 04:56 PM.
Reason: typo
4 series is fugly? Wow I think they're pretty great looking, but looks are subjective I suppose. But like Aman said, the writing's been on the wall for a very long time. Looking at that list, a few surprised me, especially the Genesis G70. I had no clue you could get that in a manual.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My eye when beholding the new 4 series pig snout grill was driven right out of the 4 Coupe & into a Z4 roadster for my DD with a roof. So as a can't we all get along split the difference one DD with a roof & an 8ZF while the preferred one is with no roof & a 5MT.
Also find it interesting that someone, not you, would consider the drivers in most professional series starting with Formula I to be passengers not drivers. Must be the old man pedal thing. Fun thing since going back to the 1940's up into the 1950's it was also a grandma pedal if she wanted to drive the car.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-21-2020 at 10:59 PM.
I sat in one during an auto show and was impressed. Doesn't quite have the interior of a BMW or Merc, but it's objectively a nice place to be.
Sure. Audi has the best interiors IMO, but you can't get one brand new for $28K. I mean, an A4 on it's worst day will still be around $40K. That $12K can buy a lot of hook... Oh, you know.
11-11-2020, 10:03 AM
There are definitely slim pickings if you're looking for a new premium car with a stick. 
They did however, upgrade the Gremlin to an early 80s Celica GT with a 5 speed. 
. He and his roomate drove to and from college between NJ and MI.
