Dad's getting into a 2004 ES330. Is it better than a 2004 TL?
11-10-2007, 06:19 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Dad's getting into a 2004 ES330. Is it better than a 2004 TL?
I for some time now have been encouraging my father to get rid of his beat up 91 LS400 and get into something newer. Ive been suggesting to him that a TL would not be a bad choice, considering that vs. comparable cars it's one of the best (2004+.)
This weekend, he decided to finally go looking for something newer, but did not tell me until the last second and I had already made plans. Long story short, he found a 2004 ES 330 with 29k, Grey ext. / Tan int. for about 22k$.
My mom told me this today and I began looking for something else that he might be interested in (ES isn't a bad car, but I have driven the refreshed TL's before and know that they are nice cars.)
I found a 2004 TL with 42k, grey ext. / grey int. for the same price.
I set up an appt. for him to go check it out this evening, but unfortunately he did not want to as he "already has his heart set on the ES."
I know that the final choice in the matter is his, and that the ES does have lower mileage, but is my dad making the right move as far as finding the best bang for his buck?
What does you guys think?
This weekend, he decided to finally go looking for something newer, but did not tell me until the last second and I had already made plans. Long story short, he found a 2004 ES 330 with 29k, Grey ext. / Tan int. for about 22k$.
My mom told me this today and I began looking for something else that he might be interested in (ES isn't a bad car, but I have driven the refreshed TL's before and know that they are nice cars.)
I found a 2004 TL with 42k, grey ext. / grey int. for the same price.
I set up an appt. for him to go check it out this evening, but unfortunately he did not want to as he "already has his heart set on the ES."
I know that the final choice in the matter is his, and that the ES does have lower mileage, but is my dad making the right move as far as finding the best bang for his buck?
What does you guys think?
11-10-2007, 07:10 PM
#4
GEEZER
matter of taste really.
11-10-2007, 07:33 PM
#7
Lol, I remember we took my friends moms ES out one night and I had to drive because my friend had a little too much to drink. Luckly for me, I was with a girl for half the night so I didn't drink anything and when we left, I was kind of looking foward to tearing up the lexus on our way home. LOL that thing was a complete JOKE compared to my TL. The engine was so hesitent to rev and had no pickup. Handling was just as bad (IMO) and had some massive body-roll. There is no way you can compare to two. Not to mention how fugly it looks from the inside and outside....
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11-10-2007, 07:52 PM
#8
They are two vehicles from manufacturers with different philosophies. I think for that generation you're better off just getting a V6 Camry.
My sister has an 07 ES350 which I've driven many times. Huge difference between an 03 TL-S. It also has a way nicer interior than the 07 Camry, in addition to having a much smoother ride. Biased or not, I have never liked cars that have very little/no steering feel, which pretty much is Toyota.... from the Prius, Camry, ES350 to the MR2, they all feel too light for me.
The level of refinement in the ES350 is way higher than the TL. I've sat in an 04 TL and the seats in the ES feel much more supple. The steering wheel is adjustable for tilt AND telescope, all the materials feel very nice, and the shift knob is strangely addicting to hold. Ride is incredible smooth, moreso than any stock TL I've ridden in. Engine is more powerful on the low-end than the TL, seems about equal top-end.
Now, for an 04 TL vs. an 04 ES, I would go with the TL. 07 TL vs 07 ES, it depends... luxury = ES, sportiness = TL
My sister has an 07 ES350 which I've driven many times. Huge difference between an 03 TL-S. It also has a way nicer interior than the 07 Camry, in addition to having a much smoother ride. Biased or not, I have never liked cars that have very little/no steering feel, which pretty much is Toyota.... from the Prius, Camry, ES350 to the MR2, they all feel too light for me.
The level of refinement in the ES350 is way higher than the TL. I've sat in an 04 TL and the seats in the ES feel much more supple. The steering wheel is adjustable for tilt AND telescope, all the materials feel very nice, and the shift knob is strangely addicting to hold. Ride is incredible smooth, moreso than any stock TL I've ridden in. Engine is more powerful on the low-end than the TL, seems about equal top-end.
Now, for an 04 TL vs. an 04 ES, I would go with the TL. 07 TL vs 07 ES, it depends... luxury = ES, sportiness = TL
11-10-2007, 08:04 PM
#9
The 04+ TL is adjustable for tilt and telescope? Donno why you threw that in there...
I agree though, the only thing I liked about it were the seats and extremely mellow ride. But it was wayyyyy too soft for my liking. I don't know why they can't just make the ES look nice? Even the new one is an ugly duckling....almost as bad as the previous gen. Too many awkward angles...nothing really flows on that car, interior is just as bizzare and untasteful. Somethings wrong when the Toyota version looks better than the way more expensive Lexus version
I agree though, the only thing I liked about it were the seats and extremely mellow ride. But it was wayyyyy too soft for my liking. I don't know why they can't just make the ES look nice? Even the new one is an ugly duckling....almost as bad as the previous gen. Too many awkward angles...nothing really flows on that car, interior is just as bizzare and untasteful. Somethings wrong when the Toyota version looks better than the way more expensive Lexus version
11-10-2007, 08:48 PM
#10
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Hard to say. I really like the TL more than the Lexus, but the reliability of the Lexus is a lot better than Acuras IMO.
I think if it were me I would go with the TL. But for your dad, if these are the choices, and he already has a liking for the Lexus, then that's what he sould get. I don't think it will be a bad choice. It's not like he is planning to drop it on some 19's and mod the hell out of it.
I think if it were me I would go with the TL. But for your dad, if these are the choices, and he already has a liking for the Lexus, then that's what he sould get. I don't think it will be a bad choice. It's not like he is planning to drop it on some 19's and mod the hell out of it.
11-10-2007, 09:04 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
They are two vehicles from manufacturers with different philosophies...
Now, for an 04 TL vs. an 04 ES, I would go with the TL. 07 TL vs 07 ES, it depends... luxury = ES, sportiness = TL
Now, for an 04 TL vs. an 04 ES, I would go with the TL. 07 TL vs 07 ES, it depends... luxury = ES, sportiness = TL
I Go To Costco's post (#8 here) hits the nail on the head.
The final difference not mentioned: the '04 TL accelerates much faster than the ES330 (the ES350 has 268 hp).
The ride is firmer and sportier on the TL; the ES has a more lush, and less controlled, ride.
11-10-2007, 09:50 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Since hes coming from a 91 LS400, my guess he would like the comfy ride of the ES330 over the TL.
11-10-2007, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Since hes coming from a 91 LS400, my guess he would like the comfy ride of the ES330 over the TL.
If it was you however, we would all be screaming at you to go with the TL.
11-10-2007, 10:27 PM
#16
Depends on his style of driving. If he's like the majority of drivers who don't really care, he'll probably think the TL rides too harshly.
But honestly the prev gen of the ES has a very nice interior: planks of real wood, rich leather, you almost feel like you were riding in the more expensive LS. The TL can't match that level of pampering. Although the new ES interior
But honestly the prev gen of the ES has a very nice interior: planks of real wood, rich leather, you almost feel like you were riding in the more expensive LS. The TL can't match that level of pampering. Although the new ES interior
11-11-2007, 12:28 AM
#17
I shoot people
I'm not sure how much the new Accords are going for... maybe out of his price range, but I'm really REALLY liking the New Accord... gets my attention everytime
11-11-2007, 01:16 AM
#18
If your dad wants a comfy luxury car, the ES. If your dad wants a fun sporty car, the TL.
11-11-2007, 02:22 AM
#20
Safety Car
Originally Posted by amv12
Since you say he's your dad, then I can assume hes 50ish yrs old? The ES is designed to get sales from people like him.
My next car will be a G37 or IS350. You have to get old, you don't have to grow up.
11-11-2007, 03:19 AM
#21
how handsome I am
Thread Starter
Thanks for clearing it up guys. Alot of you mentioned the age factor and that got me thinking too.
I guess i just felt ultra depressed about it because I wanted to really help my dad find something good. I thought the TL would be that for him (aesthetics, power, features.)
I guess that's where I may be looking though when I'm his age reverse living vicariously you could say.. lol.
-Alex
I guess i just felt ultra depressed about it because I wanted to really help my dad find something good. I thought the TL would be that for him (aesthetics, power, features.)
I guess that's where I may be looking though when I'm his age
reverse living vicariously you could say.. lol.-Alex
both great car so..
11-11-2007, 05:29 AM
#25
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He would absolutely hate the TL especially if he is use to driving the LS400. The ride quality in both cars is totally different, although the TL isnt what you would call a track car but its suspension is way more stiffer than the lexus. My dad has a GS430 and he hates my TL and says that he would never want to own that car since the ride is so bumpy lol, mind you my suspension is fully stock. Dont force him into the acura family if he is happy being a lexus owner.
11-11-2007, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan
. . . and 24 year olds are a menace on the highway, Asians can't drive etc, etc.
My next car will be a G37 or IS350. You have to get old, you don't have to grow up.
My next car will be a G37 or IS350. You have to get old, you don't have to grow up.
11-11-2007, 10:37 AM
#27
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You need to be careful with used ES around that age. Many complaints of tranny issues over at Edmunds. Not as bad as the 99-03 TLs but still you need to be aware of the issue.
11-11-2007, 05:36 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by doopstr
You need to be careful with used ES around that age. Many complaints of tranny issues over at Edmunds. Not as bad as the 99-03 TLs but still you need to be aware of the issue.
11-11-2007, 06:28 PM
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I wouldn't say that one is better than the other, but I will say that he'd probably be happier in the ES than the TL, as it is a more comfortable car to drive.
I say ES FTW..
I say ES FTW..
11-11-2007, 07:45 PM
#31
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Hmm I think the 04 ES looks like crap compared to an 04 TL. Now the new ES is hot. But 04 Tl looks better IMO.
11-11-2007, 09:21 PM
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i was at the lexus dealer today with my mom because she was checking out the new rx400h.
i strolled over to some used sedans and saw a very clean 2004 ES that was dark grey on black leather with grey woodgrain. i must say i was pretty impressed. i did not drive it, but the interior feel of a lexus is something that is hard to beat.
i used to drool over the 04+ acura TLs, but lately ive been loving lexus. Although the ES is a little too "boring" for me, i am definately interested in picking up a LS430, those cars are insanely nice.
tell your dad to drop the ES and go for the LS430.
i strolled over to some used sedans and saw a very clean 2004 ES that was dark grey on black leather with grey woodgrain. i must say i was pretty impressed. i did not drive it, but the interior feel of a lexus is something that is hard to beat.
i used to drool over the 04+ acura TLs, but lately ive been loving lexus. Although the ES is a little too "boring" for me, i am definately interested in picking up a LS430, those cars are insanely nice.
tell your dad to drop the ES and go for the LS430.
11-11-2007, 10:34 PM
#33
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Thread Starter
Well i rode in the Lexus tonight with my father and I must say, it certainly drove very nicely.
Not as bad as I was expecting for my dad. I'm happy for him, and I guess I'll just have to get a TL for myself sometime down the road!
-Alex
Not as bad as I was expecting for my dad. I'm happy for him, and I guess I'll just have to get a TL for myself sometime down the road!
-Alex
11-12-2007, 02:50 AM
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yea the ES model is probably the least attractive out of Lexus's entire lineup to a car enthusiast forum. It is underpowered and sluggish, its pretty much a dressed up camry with the badges changed. But it still a nice car and rides very smooth, however the best Lexus has to offer comes with the LS line. The LS400/430 has been at the top of the pack in terms of reliability and luxury for more than a decade. I was drooling over the new LS460s in the showroom today, and also some 2001-05 models that were going for anywher between 20-50k.
11-12-2007, 09:49 AM
#37
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Despite the ES' styling (and in some respects, not unlike the 7G Accord), there did not seem to be any shortage of ES buyers for that generation. 
11-12-2007, 10:57 AM
#39
I have an 04 TL and my parents have an 04 ES. I actually encouraged my dad to get the ES, after I had my TL, because of the age difference. I really didn't think he should be driving a car with that much power & torque. 
The ES is the perfect choice for older drivers (although you're 22 and I'm 36, so I'm guessing your dad's a little younger than mine). He's had it 3 years now and he loves it. I prefer my TL, except for the tranny issues I've been having. In retrospect, I should not have bought the 1st year of a new design, so if you start looking for a used TL for yourself, definitely go with an 05 or later.
For whoever mentioned the 07 ES... it IS a lot nicer, inside and out, than the previous design, but it's had the same major transmission flare problems as the 07 Camry V6, so I would definitely steer clear of that one. The 04s are rock solid as far as I know. Again, first year of a redesign = BAD.
The ES is the perfect choice for older drivers (although you're 22 and I'm 36, so I'm guessing your dad's a little younger than mine). He's had it 3 years now and he loves it. I prefer my TL, except for the tranny issues I've been having.
In retrospect, I should not have bought the 1st year of a new design, so if you start looking for a used TL for yourself, definitely go with an 05 or later.For whoever mentioned the 07 ES... it IS a lot nicer, inside and out, than the previous design, but it's had the same major transmission flare problems as the 07 Camry V6, so I would definitely steer clear of that one. The 04s are rock solid as far as I know. Again, first year of a redesign = BAD.
11-12-2007, 12:58 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by elessar
I have an 04 TL and my parents have an 04 ES. I actually encouraged my dad to get the ES, after I had my TL, because of the age difference. I really didn't think he should be driving a car with that much power & torque.