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Could Acura find out if you did this to your leased car?

 
Old 11-30-2014, 09:27 PM
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Could Acura find out if you did this to your leased car?

I was having a "what if" discussion with a friend who also leases an Acura. What if you did this with your car on a 3-year lease?

1. Never changed the oil until just before turn in.
2. Never changed the engine air filter or cabin air filter.
3. Used regular octane gas instead of premium.
4. Never waxed the vehicle.

How does Acura check that the vehicle has been properly maintained during the lease period? Are system codes generated to show if routine maintenance is done?

If I were to buy a CPO from Acura, I would worry that the previous owner could have done one or all of the above, and Acura wouldn't really know. It doesn't ask for maintenance receipts at turn in.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:29 PM
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Something tells me if you never changed the oil...it would never make it to 3 years prior to the engine seizing up.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:30 PM
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this is true with any used car... sounds like to me you are paranoid so might as well buy a new car.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:31 PM
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1. Engine would die before lease up
2. Dirty filters but no long term damage on cabin
3. Detonation problems would be recorded by computer
4. Depends on the part of the country where you live and if you ever wash your car
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:55 PM
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Why wouldn't you want to do these things?

I agree with Sarlac. Not changing the oil for three years would likely cause bigger issues that the lessee would be responsible for.
Not changing the engine air filter is going to impact MPG and performance and certainly would stand out upon inspection that it hadn't been done.
Not changing the cabin air filter is going to impact AC performance and will likely smell and would also stand out upon inspection that it hadn't been done.
Using regular octane vs. premium has been debated to death. Some use regular with they say no impact to mileage and performance, where others say if you can't afford the difference in cost why did you buy/you can afford the car and are missing out on performance. Likely not detectable.
Never waxing? Really? It's a premium car, why wouldn't you take pride in its appearance? Isn't it a reflection of the driver? May or may not be detectable.

I'm just confused as to why this is a topic of conversation. You aren't saving THAT much money and with some of the items, not doing them could cost more money. I guess you or your friend would need to read the T's & C's of the lease and would need to weigh the pros and cons
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:33 PM
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I'm telling the Acura police.


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Old 11-30-2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME View Post
I'm just confused as to why this is a topic of conversation. You aren't saving THAT much money and with some of the items, not doing them could cost more money. I guess you or your friend would need to read the T's & C's of the lease and would need to weigh the pros and cons
For the record, I take meticulous care of my vehicles, be they owned or leased. This is more a question of how carefully Acura inspects its lease returns before offering them as CPOs or to auction. I believe there are some folks who take as little care of their leased cars as possible, thinking it will save them money on a non-permanent asset. I agree with you; it's a false economy as these maintenance items affect gas mileage.

But I think the vehicle can go 30,000 miles or so on the same oil without easily identifiable damage to the engine. At least not on a cursory turn-in inspection.


A couple of years ago, I turned in my 08 TSX on lease and leased another Acura. I had all of my maintenance records, including every gas receipt (!) for the last three years that showed premium was always used. (I saved them to calculate gas mileage.)

The dealer was totally uninterested in viewing the maintenance records. I would have thought they would be since the blue book value of the vehicle was higher than the residual value, and that difference was being used as a capital cost reduction for the new lease.
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kixo View Post
For the record, I take meticulous care of my vehicles, be they owned or leased. This is more a question of how carefully Acura inspects its lease returns before offering them as CPOs or to auction. I believe there are some folks who take as little care of their leased cars as possible, thinking it will save them money on a non-permanent asset. I agree with you; it's a false economy as these maintenance items affect gas mileage.

But I think the vehicle can go 30,000 miles or so on the same oil without easily identifiable damage to the engine. At least not on a cursory turn-in inspection.


A couple of years ago, I turned in my 08 TSX on lease and leased another Acura. I had all of my maintenance records, including every gas receipt (!) for the last three years that showed premium was always used. (I saved them to calculate gas mileage.)

The dealer was totally uninterested in viewing the maintenance records. I would have thought they would be since the blue book value of the vehicle was higher than the residual value, and that difference was being used as a capital cost reduction for the new lease.
You get how leases work right?

The dealer doesn't own or take the lease back...the financing company providing the lease does. Now, a dealer might choose to purchase out that lease in order to sell the car.

There is an inspection upon turning the lease (unless the dealer buys it as a trade in) And there are specific things on the check list they look for.

When a dealer decides to sell that lease, and they want to offer it as a CPO...meaning it has a remainder of its warranty or an added one year warranty...it goes through a multi point inspection and is more or less reconditioned (as inexpensively as the dealer can of course) to be a quality vehicle. Otherwise, or should the vehicle not pass CPO qualifications, it might be sold as a non-CPO preowned car. Or potentially taken to dealer auction.

In otherwords...with CPO why would they dealer not care if they end up having to honor a years worth of potential warranty claims?
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kixo View Post
I was having a "what if" discussion with a friend who also leases an Acura. What if you did this with your car on a 3-year lease?

1. Never changed the oil until just before turn in.
2. Never changed the engine air filter or cabin air filter.
3. Used regular octane gas instead of premium.
4. Never waxed the vehicle.

How does Acura check that the vehicle has been properly maintained during the lease period? Are system codes generated to show if routine maintenance is done?

If I were to buy a CPO from Acura, I would worry that the previous owner could have done one or all of the above, and Acura wouldn't really know. It doesn't ask for maintenance receipts at turn in.
I don't know how Acura does its business, but I know when we have lease vehicles in, we inspect these kind of things since they're basic maintenance items & not normal wear and tear.

2-4 are not big issues. 2 can be replaced, 3 isn't a big deal since dealerships typically only carry regular octane (so it'd be pretty hypocritical to hold that against the owner) so the inspection would have to specifically show that caused an issue, & our cars personally get a fresh detail when they're presented back to be sold.

So, with the oil, if we inspected a car had been oil starved & it needed serious work, then the charge would be passed back on to owner.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dweh4 View Post
1. Engine would die before lease up
2. Dirty filters but no long term damage on cabin
3. Detonation problems would be recorded by computer
4. Depends on the part of the country where you live and if you ever wash your car
I would disagree with #1


135K and only changed the oil 1 or 2 times, just kept topping it off
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:19 AM
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Don't most manufacturers provide free oil changes for leased vehicles because of this situation? Many leasees treat their vehicle like a rental car where they may change the oil once a year because they don't want to spend money on a car they are turning in and not owning. For some it is an advantage of leasing where you get free regular service while if you purchase you have to pay for most of the service stuff.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post
I would disagree with #1


135K and only changed the oil 1 or 2 times, just kept topping it off


3 years on a typical lease which is typically pretty low miles would be easy to do with never changing the oil. At most it might have to be topped off once or twice but i would HIGHLY doubt that the motor would die by then, especially considering i have gone over 20k on oil changes (having had oil tested just about every oil change) with what is considered severe conditions for driving and have never had an engine issue.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:33 AM
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Murphy is always out there......... One or two oil changes a year is cheap insurance and simply makes sense.

I just can't understand why you would buy or even lease something and not take care of it / properly maintain it.

Maybe it's just me
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by NBP04TL4ME View Post
I just can't understand why you would buy or even lease something and not take care of it / properly maintain it.
Because if you lease it and have no intention of buying it out at leases end, the cost of maintaining it to make it last 300,000 miles is pointless.

I've seen it go both ways. Some people lease cars and take immaculate care of them because they fear charges at the end of the lease. Some people lease cars and take piss poor care of them because it's basically a 3 year rental car and they have no fear of the long term consequences of poor maintenance.

After working in an Acura dealership for 6 years, I have never seen a lease inspector do more than a physical inspection. They look for scratches in the paint, dents in the body, tread on the tires, chips or cracks in the glass. They don't take samples of your fuel and oil to sent to the lab for investigation.

You could definitely get away with what you are talking about. This is why buying cars that are off lease is not always a great idea. Sometimes they were driven by people who don't care if the car blows up in 37 months because their lease is only for 36.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
Because if you lease it and have no intention of buying it out at leases end, the cost of maintaining it to make it last 300,000 miles is pointless.

I've seen it go both ways. Some people lease cars and take immaculate care of them because they fear charges at the end of the lease. Some people lease cars and take piss poor care of them because it's basically a 3 year rental car and they have no fear of the long term consequences of poor maintenance.

After working in an Acura dealership for 6 years, I have never seen a lease inspector do more than a physical inspection. They look for scratches in the paint, dents in the body, tread on the tires, chips or cracks in the glass. They don't take samples of your fuel and oil to sent to the lab for investigation.

You could definitely get away with what you are talking about. This is why buying cars that are off lease is not always a great idea. Sometimes they were driven by people who don't care if the car blows up in 37 months because their lease is only for 36.
I hear you, but I would have no fear of end of lease charges - I guess it isn't in my DNA. Or maybe the "car guy" in me is bigger than the "finance guy" in me. We have leased in the past and we purchased one at 33 months and the others were turned in - not in showroom condition but were properly maintained.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:19 AM
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FWIW, last time I checked, Acura doesn't "require" premium fuel, they "recommend" it (other than for the turbo RDX where it was actually required). There are parts of the country where 91 octane is hard to come by. The last time I was in Montana, premium was 89 octane, regular was 84, the only way to find octane higher than 90 was at a Shell station.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:30 AM
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Regular vs. Premium isn't a big deal as the car will run on both albeit not at the same performance level with the premium.
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:07 PM
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Maybe.

Maybe not.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post
I would disagree with #1


135K and only changed the oil 1 or 2 times, just kept topping it off
That engine shouldn't have needed "top ups" if it was regularly maintained. That's a Kia engine, and from my knowledge on them, they don't burn oil unless neglected. Clearly there was damage being done to the inside. I wonder what shape the piston rings and bearings are in.

It's funny- I would never even bother having that sludge cleaned out. It would be near impossible to clean all of it out. and if any of it comes loose after the engine is reassembled, it could mean big trouble. What damn fools some people are!

That's a cool video, by the way. Just makes my heart sink watching it though.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
FWIW, last time I checked, Acura doesn't "require" premium fuel, they "recommend" it (other than for the turbo RDX where it was actually required). There are parts of the country where 91 octane is hard to come by. The last time I was in Montana, premium was 89 octane, regular was 84, the only way to find octane higher than 90 was at a Shell station.
My '06 TL owner's manual says it "requires" premium. I've wondered about this, since the J30 (06+ Accord) puts out 244hp at the crank on regular fuel, and the J32 (06+ TL) is slightly bigger and only puts 258 HP on premium fuel. Both numbers are the SAE corrected ones also.

It seems the displacement difference is in line with the power bump, but that doesn't seem to account for the fuel type difference. It almost seems like the J30 should be required to run premium as well.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
That engine shouldn't have needed "top ups" if it was regularly maintained. That's a Kia engine, and from my knowledge on them, they don't burn oil unless neglected. Clearly there was damage being done to the inside. I wonder what shape the piston rings and bearings are in.

It's funny- I would never even bother having that sludge cleaned out. It would be near impossible to clean all of it out. and if any of it comes loose after the engine is reassembled, it could mean big trouble. What damn fools some people are!

That's a cool video, by the way. Just makes my heart sink watching it though.
Given the amount of sludge in that motor, oil had to be added on multiple occasions....
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:54 PM
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I knew someone who bought a new Lexus and never changed oil till engine was destroyed. The dealership covered the full cost of a new engine and install. Gotta love ppl getting rewarded for being stupid.

I would never buy a used car off a lot knowing how bad ppl treat cars. It must be new or at least owned by a gearhead.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:04 PM
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I doubt they can tell and I know tons of people that lease, never wax (just quick car washes), and if they change the oil, it isn't often. My fiancee doesn't seem to care about oil changes and I bug the shit out of her about it. Same thing for filters and I guarantee there are MANY others that feel the same as my fiancee.

As for not taking care of it, many view a lease as not theres so why do they care (not my point of view).
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
My '06 TL owner's manual says it "requires" premium.
No it doesn't.

Your 06 tl manual says, "your vehicle is designed to operate on premium unleaded gasoline with a pump octane of 91 or higher. Use of a lower octane gasoline can cause occasional metallic knocking noises and will result in decreased engine performance. Use of a gasoline with a pump octane lower than 87 can lead to engine damage."

That's page 176, middle column under the heading "fuel recommendation" if you'd like to re-read it

The real difference between a j30 and a j32's fuel recommendation is the j30 was 10:1 compression and the j32 is 11:1. Higher compression requires higher octane.

Last edited by black label; 12-01-2014 at 08:29 PM. Reason: I may take it back if the Canadian manual is different than the murican one.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc View Post
You get how leases work right?

The dealer doesn't own or take the lease back...the financing company providing the lease does. Now, a dealer might choose to purchase out that lease in order to sell the car.

There is an inspection upon turning the lease (unless the dealer buys it as a trade in) And there are specific things on the check list they look for.
Yes, I get how leases work. That is not the point. In my experience, the dealer has almost always wanted to take my vehicle and resell as a CPO because it was well maintained, no accidents, and had low mileage. (The one exception was a dealer who didn't want to bother trying to sell an MT.)

The last time, the dealer bought my lease return and offered it as a CPO within about 3-4 days. Did not want to even see my maintenance records, and the exterior/interior "inspection" happened at 9:00 at night. Perhaps because it could pull the records from Acura's system (I had all my service done at another Acura dealer) or it used CarFax to check the car's service history? I am not sure.

Free maintenance for leased cars does make a lot of sense, and creates a dealer-based record of the maintenance events.

I have had good luck buying Honda Odyssey CPOs, but it was mostly that -- luck. Not a lot of service history available.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:33 PM
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^As long as it has a clean CarFax/AutoCheck the dealer doesn't give a shit. They just want to make a buck.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nexx View Post
this is true with any used car... sounds like to me you are paranoid so might as well buy a new car.
Actually, it's not true with any used car. Many private sellers and some dealers have the vehicle records they can show you to prove a history of maintenance.
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