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Consumer Reports tabulates its exclusive data across the model lines
February 23, 2016
One great car—or clunker—doesn’t define a whole brand. Neither does its reputation (good or bad) relieve you of the need to examine a vehicle carefully. But our long-standing and comprehensive analysis of car brands reveals that you can glean important information by knowing a brand’s output over time.
To determine which car brands consistently deliver vehicles that serve consumers well, we tabulate the overall score, road-test score, and predicted reliability results for each tested model of a brand. We then average those scores at the brand level. This average overall score is used to rank the car brands as an indicator of who makes the best cars. Topping our Ratings are the luxury brand Audi and mainstream marque Subaru. Only vehicles that are on the market and that we tested factor into the equation. The rankings don’t account for corporate practices or brand perceptions.
Hence, Audi and Volkswagen diesel vehicles that have been pulled from dealerships -- following their recall and stop-sale last year for cheating on EPA emissions tests -- are not included in our car brands scoring. Consumer Reports strongly believes that Volkswagen AG, the maker of VW and Audi vehicles, should be held accountable for manipulating emissions testing with its vehicles.
In creating the car brands Report Card, we aggregate road-test performance, reliability, safety performance and active safety aids, and owner satisfaction. Brands with a lineup of mature, incrementally updated vehicles tended to rise to the top.
For instance, Toyota’s middling road-test score was balanced by strong reliability; Mercedes-Benz’s strong road tests were offset by below par reliability. And Honda, Nissan, and Chrysler suffered due to problematic new transmissions.
Note that car brands must have at least two models with test and reliability data to be included. Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, Maserati, Ram, Smart, and Tesla lack sufficient data.
I wonder how that data would get reordered if 5-year or 10-year reliability was considered. I have no problem believing Audis are reliable for the first 2-3 years. Would I want to own one for 100k miles? Doubt it.
I wonder how that data would get reordered if 5-year or 10-year reliability was considered. I have no problem believing Audis are reliable for the first 2-3 years. Would I want to own one for 100k miles? Doubt it.
We've owned 2 Audi's and 1 Mercedes to near or over 100k since 2005 and all were perfectly fine. Granted we did get rid of the A6 right as it neared the threshold, but we know the person who purchased it and he's nearing 140k problem free miles. The misses is also looking at getting rid of the Mercedes for another Audi soon.
I would have been scared of a German car 8-10 years ago... but not so much anymore. Except BMW, for some reason I can't get comfortable with them long-term...
Lol first thing I can tell you is that chart is horse shit. Audi's are unreliable and expensive to fix. Suburu is pretty accurate. Anything European if you don't do the oil changes every 5,000 km your looking for problems down the road.
We've owned 2 Audi's and 1 Mercedes to near or over 100k since 2005 and all were perfectly fine. Granted we did get rid of the A6 right as it neared the threshold, but we know the person who purchased it and he's nearing 140k problem free miles. The misses is also looking at getting rid of the Mercedes for another Audi soon.
I would have been scared of a German car 8-10 years ago... but not so much anymore. Except BMW, for some reason I can't get comfortable with them long-term...
Reliability? My friend has been a service advisor for three years now in a private shop that exclusively repairs European makes - BMW, Audi, MB, Porsche, MINI, Land Rover... he has basically sworn off all of those brands and recommends against them for anyone who asks
I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who owns a recent acura and likely has never driven anything else other than 20 year old fords and chevys
Oh, but let me guess, you're all knowing about cars right? It's fun y how stupid people never think they're stupid
I'm actually surprised. Saintor was the biggest BMW cockrider out there.
Then again I try to be as impartial as possible. Having driven a new 528i for about 800 miles over the past two weeks, I've grown to really like that car. I definitely looked up leasing rates...
Lol first thing I can tell you is that chart is horse shit. Audi's are unreliable and expensive to fix. Suburu is pretty accurate. Anything European if you don't do the oil changes every 5,000 km your looking for problems down the road.
Like look at the new Q5's recalls on the pistons?
False.
My 2010 VW GTI was extremely reliable. Had 137k miles, only repair I ever had to make was the mech unit in the DSG transmission. Expensive repairs? Yes. Unreliable? Negative. The VW brand is very reliable, and please don't say the two brands are different. Audi is identical to VW. Only difference is the badge.
Reliability? My friend has been a service advisor for three years now in a private shop that exclusively repairs European makes - BMW, Audi, MB, Porsche, MINI, Land Rover... he has basically sworn off all of those brands and recommends against them for anyone who asks
Yeah, well, most techs swear off the cars they work on...all they see are the broken ones.
That actually makes a lot of sense, tribe. Why in the world would techs ever see cars come in that aren't in need of repair? By that count, every manufacturer builds shitty, unreliable cars
Based on my experience, I've owned Pontiac, Chevy, Ford, Honda, Acura, VW, and Hyundai.
Here's my opinion on reliability from best to worst....
1) Honda - Most Reliable
2) Acura
3) VW
4) Ford
5) Hyundai
6) Pontiac
7) Chevy - Least Unreliable
1) Honda - Least Expensive To Repair
2) Ford
3) Chevy
4) Pontiac
5) Hyundai
6) Acura
7) VW - Most Expensive To Repair
Mind you this was determined from owning:
Acura - RL
Chevy - HHR SS - Monte Carlo SS
Ford - Mustang - F150
Honda - Accord
Hyundai - Azera
Pontiac - Grand Prix GTP
VW - Golf GTI DSG
The problem with this is that your sample pool is way too small. One car from each of those brands isn't very indicative of anything. We all know that every manufacturer has a lemon somewhere in its assembly line. We also know cars built on different days of the week end up having different reliabilities in the long run.
Personally, I'd put Hyundai ahead of Acura. But that's based on only two Acuras and one Hyundai I've owned. Is it really saying much? Not really.
The problem with this is that your sample pool is way too small. One car from each of those brands isn't very indicative of anything. We all know that every manufacturer has a lemon somewhere in its assembly line. We also know cars built on different days of the week end up having different reliabilities in the long run.
Personally, I'd put Hyundai ahead of Acura. But that's based on only two Acuras and one Hyundai I've owned. Is it really saying much? Not really.
There's 17 different cars in that list lol might be a small list of manufacturers but I had my fair share of them all
Pontiac Grand Am
Mustang GT
Honda Accord
Mustang GT
Monte Carlo SS
Mustang GT
Grand Prix GTP
Ford F150
Mustang GT
Chevy HHR SS
Mustang GT
Hyundai Azera
Mustang GT
VW GTI
Mustang GT
Mustang GT
Acura RL
Lol first thing I can tell you is that chart is horse shit. Audi's are unreliable and expensive to fix. Suburu is pretty accurate. Anything European if you don't do the oil changes every 5,000 km your looking for problems down the road.
Like look at the new Q5's recalls on the pistons?
82 k on 2008 B7 A4 2.0T. And its had a Stage One Tune on it since 58k miles. No problems yet...
Any issues it did have were handled under factory warranty...but thats long gone. Still drives like a raped ape too.
I would have been scared of a German car 8-10 years ago... but not so much anymore. Except BMW, for some reason I can't get comfortable with them long-term...
My 530xi T has 159K on it and still drives very well and is completely squeak free. My wife's 335xi has 65K on it and is a rock star too. I am completely unafraid of owning a BMW long term.
Yeah, well, most techs swear off the cars they work on...all they see are the broken ones.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
That actually makes a lot of sense, tribe. Why in the world would techs ever see cars come in that aren't in need of repair? By that count, every manufacturer builds shitty, unreliable cars
Because cars that require $1,000 brake jobs (BMW) and $200 oil changes (Porsche) are broken? Again, independent shop pricing.
By the same token, I know techs that buy MB and BMW mainly because they know how to fix them.
I also know plenty of Toyota techs that own Toyotas.
Poor FCA, I thought their quality had improved after their 2009 restructure?
I think everyone knew Land Rover was terrible for reliability.
HAHAHA!!!! Hell no, don't believe me? Look at my Lemon thread where I replaced a 2015 Chrysler 200 Lemon. I wasn't alone. In my state, I found a list of all lemon cars and there are more 2015 Chrysler 200's than all Acura's and Honda's combined. It's quite staggering. That being said, Chrysler definitely deserves to be at the bottom of the list. Sergio (FCA CEO) is killing the 200 after this generation because they spent too much money on warranty issues to make a profit on them. I know that my 32k MSRP car that can easily be had for 26k before TTL has had close to $20,000 of work done to it before they lemoned it. The number is what the dealership would bill me if it wasn't under warranty. Each transmission is a staggering 8k including labor. Good thing they only replaced it twice.
/Rant Over
Subaru shouldn't be at the top of the list either. Alot of people I know with new one's have had some problems with theirs. One of my friends had to get his crosstrek lemon lawed as well. Their boxers have some sort of issue with the crank shaft position sensor going bad often for some reason. Not sure why though.
That being said, almost any car can be reliable if you take perfect care of it. I've known people that had 230k mile MB S classes that only had small issues once they were 13 years old and then airmatic failed at 15 years old, but still.
My mom has a 2012 Mazda CX9. That car is turning 4 years old next month and has had quite a few common issues (so common they extended the warranty for those components) including complete brake booster failiure and some small issues as well. My dad's Kia has been more reliable. It will be 3 in September and we've only had one issue (wheel speed sensor went bad).
I think a more important component of these tests should be customer service and what the dealer would do to help you out. Kia didn't want to replace the Speed sensor under warranty and argued that a rodent must have eaten it despite the wire clearly being sheered off by the tire during tight turns/u turns. Bad customer service. Chrysler, terrible customer service, wouldn't even give a loaner when they would replace the transmission in a 7 month old car. Mazda, above average customer service. They would always give a loaner for major issues and by appointment for oil changes. They never argued about fixing anything. I think that MB/Audi/BMW would have the best or some of the best customer service/experience. Acura's was slightly better than Mazdas 3 years ago when we still had ours. They would also always give loaners and have snacks (although they started having less and less after 2010).
Yeah, I can't argue with the bolded part. The oil changes on my E60 M5 were $300 a pop. Just silly.
I mean, out of the big three German makes I would choose the ones coming out of Munich. I love driving them. But some engineering decisions they make are baffling.
Also, 100k on the E9x? Prepare for a new water pump, me thinks. My girlfriend's car has about 80k too and is in the shop now for a couple of weeks.
And I would be perfectly content with a Cayman GT4. I don't need anything fancier. Though replacing the water pump every 50k on newer Porsches is more like preventative maintenance than an actual repair.
I mean, out of the big three German makes I would choose the ones coming out of Munich. I love driving them. But some engineering decisions they make are baffling.
Also, 100k on the E9x? Prepare for a new water pump, me thinks. My girlfriend's car has about 80k too and is in the shop now for a couple of weeks.
And I would be perfectly content with a Cayman GT4. I don't need anything fancier. Though replacing the water pump every 50k on newer Porsches is more like preventative maintenance than an actual repair.
[shrug] Not much I can do about it, right now. I can't replace the car in my current circumstances, so I'll just have to take whatever comes my way.
Yeah, I can't argue with the bolded part. The oil changes on my E60 M5 were $300 a pop. Just silly.
I've been internet-window shopping cars for the future and certainly cars like the M3/M5 (535i seems more practical alternative), a S4/RS4, a E55/63 AMG have been on my list of future attinable dream cars...
But are Bimmers easy for DIY jobs in your experience? I know parts are obviously more but hoping to save on labor.
I mean I know that most of these guys are probably rich dudes who sees $300 oil changes as chump change so they just take it to the dealer with a blanket check.
On a couple Benz/Audi forum(MBworld, Audizine) I did not seem to see nearly as much DIY threads/repair yourself threads as compared to Azine.
I've read somewhere else that there are two types of BMW owners: super rich dudes who has F U money and gets them serviced/fixed at dealers all the time and gets new leases every few years......and budget dudes who work on old ass BMWs on their driveways all on their own..... (of course im sure many are in between these two extremes)
02-23-2016, 04:07 PM
(of course im sure many are in between these two extremes)