BMWs are the best handling cars in the world.
09-17-2003, 05:36 PM
#1
SHIFT_over.so.I.can.see
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BMWs are the best handling cars in the world.
At least that's what al lthe boys over on bimmerforums harp about.
I go over there and they're all pretty easy going except their one line is "You'd take him in the twisties" whenever one of their $60K-$80K cars gets his ass whooped by a big block V8 or some boosted 4-banger.
A race is a race am I right? If you lost, then you just lost. Excuses are for losers.
I don't doubt that their cars are well balanced but still, a driver makes the car turn, the car doesn't drive itself.
What do you guys think about this "BMW = pinnacle of handling" stigma?
P.S. : Our new line should be something along the lines of "You woulda beat him if it was snowing outside."
I go over there and they're all pretty easy going except their one line is "You'd take him in the twisties" whenever one of their $60K-$80K cars gets his ass whooped by a big block V8 or some boosted 4-banger.
A race is a race am I right? If you lost, then you just lost. Excuses are for losers.
I don't doubt that their cars are well balanced but still, a driver makes the car turn, the car doesn't drive itself.
What do you guys think about this "BMW = pinnacle of handling" stigma?
P.S. : Our new line should be something along the lines of "You woulda beat him if it was snowing outside."
09-17-2003, 05:38 PM
#2
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:whocares:
09-17-2003, 05:59 PM
#3
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Re: BMWs are the best handling cars in the world.
Originally posted by civic4982
P.S. : Our new line should be something along the lines of "You woulda beat him if it was snowing outside."
P.S. : Our new line should be something along the lines of "You woulda beat him if it was snowing outside."
yada yada..."our cars weren't built for drag racing or straight-line, but you'll take them in the twisties, especially if it's raining or snowing....................................."
this was, of course, before the WRX and STI came out.
09-17-2003, 06:15 PM
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the non sport models of bimmers suck when it comes to handling imo. But with the weight distribution they have and the sport packges, they are a tight car. The real question is who actually finds themselves in races in "twisties"? All the audi guys say this too. I live in the suburbs and near the city...my racing is drag strip, stop light and highway.
09-17-2003, 06:19 PM
#6
Administrator Alumnus
Originally posted by 01 Cl-s
Actually how would a CL with like Eibach springs and sways and Koni yellows compare do an "all-mighty Bimmer"?
Actually how would a CL with like Eibach springs and sways and Koni yellows compare do an "all-mighty Bimmer"?
No substitute for RWD.
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09-17-2003, 06:34 PM
#8
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I dunno, for me i get more of a driving pleasure when i can fly down curvy roads on a nice sunday afternoon. Also changing lanes quickly is a factor.
Sorry but with all the mods i had on the TLS, it still didnt give me the enjoyment like my 330 does. But everyone is different.
Sorry but with all the mods i had on the TLS, it still didnt give me the enjoyment like my 330 does. But everyone is different.
09-17-2003, 07:05 PM
#11
SHIFT_over.so.I.can.see
Thread Starter
Some of you missed my point completely.
The idea here is that just b/c your car is well balanced doesn't mean any idiot who buys an M5 or M3 is suddenly an F1 racer. Who knows, some guy in a Camaro might out drive the putz in the M3.
The car does not make the driver nor does it make the performance.
The idea here is that just b/c your car is well balanced doesn't mean any idiot who buys an M5 or M3 is suddenly an F1 racer. Who knows, some guy in a Camaro might out drive the putz in the M3.
The car does not make the driver nor does it make the performance.
09-17-2003, 08:18 PM
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don't dog it until u drive one. i mean DRIVE one drive one,
in my opinion you really don't drive a car until you own - backroad,traffic and just crusing
IMO, fwd are not really perfomance cars, just luxury touring/crusing cars that are good for fuel economy and bad weather.
RWD are really the opposite in most cases but not all.
best way to put itn in a fwd when I would go into a corner u feel like the car is turning ahead of you, in a rwd u feel like the car is turning AROUND you. and the 50/50 weight distro DOES make a diff.
in my opinion you really don't drive a car until you own - backroad,traffic and just crusing
IMO, fwd are not really perfomance cars, just luxury touring/crusing cars that are good for fuel economy and bad weather.
RWD are really the opposite in most cases but not all.
best way to put itn in a fwd when I would go into a corner u feel like the car is turning ahead of you, in a rwd u feel like the car is turning AROUND you. and the 50/50 weight distro DOES make a diff.
09-17-2003, 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by civic4982
Some of you missed my point completely.
The idea here is that just b/c your car is well balanced doesn't mean any idiot who buys an M5 or M3 is suddenly an F1 racer. Who knows, some guy in a Camaro might out drive the putz in the M3.
The car does not make the driver nor does it make the performance.
Some of you missed my point completely.
The idea here is that just b/c your car is well balanced doesn't mean any idiot who buys an M5 or M3 is suddenly an F1 racer. Who knows, some guy in a Camaro might out drive the putz in the M3.
The car does not make the driver nor does it make the performance.
09-17-2003, 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by 01 Cl-s
Actually how would a CL with like Eibach springs and sways and Koni yellows compare do an "all-mighty Bimmer"?
Actually how would a CL with like Eibach springs and sways and Koni yellows compare do an "all-mighty Bimmer"?
09-17-2003, 09:11 PM
#19
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I would agree that BMWs are very good when it comes to handleing. My friend has a M3 and it handles beautifully. Also driven the M5 and it has good handleing even for its size! gosh that thing is heavy! Also driven a S2000 and i think that handles really well.
09-17-2003, 09:13 PM
#20
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But when it comes to the all out handleing machine the Lamborghini Coutach is my all time favorite!!!! Drove it once anditwaslke a dream. Didnt get to beat on it ofcousr cuz my neighbor wouldnt let me.
09-17-2003, 09:17 PM
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Damn, BMW don't win damn near every comparison for nothing. BMW is the fucking standard for sports sedans. When people want to make a good sports sedan, they copy BMW. Lexus did with the IS/GS. Infiniti did with the G35. Acura "says" they are with the TL (530 is the benchmark).
Stock, BMW ownsz us. Period.
Stock, BMW ownsz us. Period.
09-17-2003, 09:26 PM
#22
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by civic4982
me...
me...
09-17-2003, 09:40 PM
#23
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Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
this thread confuses jesal
this thread confuses jesal
09-17-2003, 09:43 PM
#24
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Re: BMWs are the best handling cars in the world.
possibly the whole universe. true story.
09-18-2003, 12:39 AM
#26
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As far as four door sport sedan, BMW make the best handling ones. But handling is just one of the many important factors that create a good car. Lexus is more comfortable and way more reliable. Mercedes-Benz is slightly more prestigious. Volvo is safer. Acura and Infiniti are better deals while providing almost the same thing for most people. Posche is faster and should draw more attention from pedestrians while running on the streets. Saab is more unique and not as common thus make the driver exuding a special taste in car. Jaguar gives a noble feel and is simply classier. BMW beats others in one category but so are the other luxury brands.
09-18-2003, 04:08 AM
#27
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Na: This looks Much Betta !
http://www.gilthserano.de/image/car/.../slr/slr04.jpg
SLR 600 !
http://www.gilthserano.de/image/car/.../slr/slr04.jpg
SLR 600 !
Originally posted by lou
clk 430 or clk 500
now thats the way to go you have the passing power and no slouch in the twisties RWD....and all the luxury you need
clk 430 or clk 500
now thats the way to go you have the passing power and no slouch in the twisties RWD....and all the luxury you need
09-18-2003, 04:31 AM
#29
SHIFT_over.so.I.can.see
Thread Starter
Just realized there's a total mistake in the way I wrote the title as well as the first message...
Should have been...
"BMW drivers are the best drivers in the world"
and
"b/c you own a BMW you'll be able to beat EVERYONE ' in the twisties ' "
Should have been...
"BMW drivers are the best drivers in the world"
and
"b/c you own a BMW you'll be able to beat EVERYONE ' in the twisties ' "
09-18-2003, 05:37 AM
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I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
If they can build $20,000 cars (Mazdaspeed) that handles like a porsche, imagine what they could do for a car with a price sticker of an M3...
Ever driven an rx7?
If they can build $20,000 cars (Mazdaspeed) that handles like a porsche, imagine what they could do for a car with a price sticker of an M3...
09-18-2003, 06:09 AM
#31
Burn some dust here
Originally posted by n00dleboy
I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
If they can build $20,000 cars (Mazdaspeed) that handles like a porsche, imagine what they could do for a car with a price sticker of an M3...
I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
If they can build $20,000 cars (Mazdaspeed) that handles like a porsche, imagine what they could do for a car with a price sticker of an M3...
Mazda
09-18-2003, 06:10 AM
#32
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by lou
clk 430 or clk 500 now thats the way to go you have the passing power and no slouch in the twisties RWD....and all the luxury you need
clk 430 or clk 500
now thats the way to go you have the passing power and no slouch in the twisties RWD....and all the luxury you need
bring it
I'll leave ya in the dust.
09-18-2003, 06:11 AM
#33
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by n00dleboy
I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
If they can build $20,000 cars (Mazdaspeed) that handles like a porsche, imagine what they could do for a car with a price sticker of an M3...
I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
If they can build $20,000 cars (Mazdaspeed) that handles like a porsche, imagine what they could do for a car with a price sticker of an M3...
rx7 handling is unreal
09-18-2003, 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by n00dleboy
I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
I'm sorry but Mazda > BMW in handling.
Ever driven an rx7?
BMW possess ride quality with the extreme capability, not the sheer grip level. I can take a VW Bug (older, rear engine version) and make it handle great. But what would the ride quality be like, sheer crap on the road...
The RX-7 R1 was a fine handling vehicle without a doubt. But it was a harsh ride better suited to a track. On less than ideal or cracked pavement often seen on back roads the R1 would have been a handful. Not to mention the ride would get annoying.
What BMW brings with its sport suspension is a well controlled handling experience. The sheer grip may not be as high as some sport cars but it comes close all with a smooth controlled ride. The balance is such that the same pavement irregularities are absorbed with ease and composure allowing for greater speed through the turns in this case. Plus you can take it on a long road trip and not be exhausted at the end.
09-18-2003, 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by scalbert
Many times...
BMW possess ride quality with the extreme capability, not the sheer grip level. I can take a VW Bug (older, rear engine version) and make it handle great. But what would the ride quality be like, sheer crap on the road...
The RX-7 R1 was a fine handling vehicle without a doubt. But it was a harsh ride better suited to a track. On less than ideal or cracked pavement often seen on back roads the R1 would have been a handful. Not to mention the ride would get annoying.
What BMW brings with its sport suspension is a well controlled handling experience. The sheer grip may not be as high as some sport cars but it comes close all with a smooth controlled ride. The balance is such that the same pavement irregularities are absorbed with ease and composure allowing for greater speed through the turns in this case. Plus you can take it on a long road trip and not be exhausted at the end.
Many times...
BMW possess ride quality with the extreme capability, not the sheer grip level. I can take a VW Bug (older, rear engine version) and make it handle great. But what would the ride quality be like, sheer crap on the road...
The RX-7 R1 was a fine handling vehicle without a doubt. But it was a harsh ride better suited to a track. On less than ideal or cracked pavement often seen on back roads the R1 would have been a handful. Not to mention the ride would get annoying.
What BMW brings with its sport suspension is a well controlled handling experience. The sheer grip may not be as high as some sport cars but it comes close all with a smooth controlled ride. The balance is such that the same pavement irregularities are absorbed with ease and composure allowing for greater speed through the turns in this case. Plus you can take it on a long road trip and not be exhausted at the end.
Sure if mazda made the rx7 with a price sticker of a 330/m3 i'm sure they could put some luxuries in there to make the "ride quality" better.
09-18-2003, 06:57 AM
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I thought the RX7 cost $40k back then? That is more than a 330 and if you want to add inflation, it's up there with the M3 right now. RX7 = sports car with rough ride 330 = sports sedan with comfortable controlled ride. There is more to suspensions than just spring rates and sway bar diameters. This is where BMW shines in that the whole suspension design works well with the numbers they use, sway bar diameters, spring rates, shock compresion and dampening/rebound.
09-18-2003, 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by n00dleboy
ride quality and handling = apples and oranges.
Sure if mazda made the rx7 with a price sticker of a 330/m3 i'm sure they could put some luxuries in there to make the "ride quality" better.
ride quality and handling = apples and oranges.
Sure if mazda made the rx7 with a price sticker of a 330/m3 i'm sure they could put some luxuries in there to make the "ride quality" better.
ok if Kia can make a car that does 0-60 in 9 seconds for $11 000 dollars, then im sure they can make a car that does 0-60 in 2.25 seconds for the price of an M3 ($44 000)