BMW showcases cars that run on hydrogen, v12, 141mph
07-13-2001, 03:12 PM
#1
Cost Drivers!!!!
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BMW showcases cars that run on hydrogen, v12, 141mph
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science....ap/index.html
BMW showcases cars that run on hydrogen
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- BMW
officials traveled to one of the nation's smoggiest cities to show off a fleet of
luxury cars that run on rocket fuel, but belch virtually nothing more than
water and steam from their tailpipes.
Company officials said Thursday that the hydrogen-powered cars are an important
step in weaning the automotive industry from the oil that has nurtured it since the
internal combustion engine first powered automobiles in the late 1800s.
The silver 750hL sedans sport a new type of internal combustion engine that runs
on clean-burning hydrogen -- the most abundant element -- instead of gasoline.
"It's the cleanest fuel there is," said Burkhard Goschel, a member of the BMW
Group board, during a news conference at Paramount studios.
BMW has hauled the 10 cars from United Arab Emirates to Europe to Japan and
now California to tout the benefits of hydrogen as a fuel source.
The company will now continue to test the cars at its new research and engineering
center, which opens Friday in Oxnard, California. Already, the fleet has covered
more than 80,000 miles during tests.
When burned, hydrogen packs a powerful punch -- it helps propel the space shuttle
to orbit. In the BMW models, it cuts tailpipe emissions by 99.5 percent.
The 750hL features a 12-cylinder engine and can hit 141 mph.
Running on hydrogen, stored in a liquid form in a pressurized tank, the car can
travel about 200 miles -- more if an auxiliary gasoline tank is tapped to fuel the car.
But concerns about storing liquid hydrogen under high pressure have stymied its use
in automobiles because of the risk of explosions and fire, experts said. A lack of a
cheap and reliable means of producing hydrogen -- and distributing it to consumers
has also hurt the marketing of such cars.
Widescale commercial production may still be a decade or more away, although
BMW hopes to introduce hydrogen-powered 7-Series models before then. Ford
Motor Co. is not far behind: it plans to unveil its own prototype hydrogen-fueled
internal combustion engine vehicle next month, spokeswoman Sara Tatchio said.
"The challenge will be to create infrastructure and devise a way to store hydrogen
on board," said John Boesel, president of Calstart, a nonprofit group that develops
clean transportation technologies.
Hydrogen can be produced from water through electrolysis or, more commonly,
from natural gas generated during the oil refining process.
The road ahead
The methods are either energy-intensive or costly -- or both -- at present.
"Hydrogen cannot compete with gasoline on a cost basis ... (but) we believe as
usage increases, it can become competitive," said Bob Malone, a regional president
of oil company BP Corp.
Goschel said the company has not calculated how much a hydrogen-fueled BMW
750 would cost compared to a conventional version, which sells for about $93,000.
And hydrogen service stations may be still a decade away.
"We're a long way from putting hydrogen out there," said Alan Lloyd, chairman of
the California Air Resources Board.
The automotive industry has yet to latch on to hydrogen or any other alternative to
gasoline or diesel fuel.
Many manufacturers, including General Motors, are looking at hydrogen, but only
to power fuel cells to produce electricity. Honda and Toyota have both introduced
hybrid models that pair gasoline engines with electric motors to boost fuel efficiency
and cut emissions. Ford, GM and DaimlerChrysler AG plan to introduce their own
versions in 2003.
California -- where 40 percent of all air pollution is produced by tailpipe emissions --
has mandated strict standards that should make the exotic vehicles more common.
By 2003, for instance, 2 percent of all vehicles sold in the state by major
manufacturers must be zero emissions.
"We have a variety of fuels that can steer us on the road ahead," Lloyd said.
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Zapata ]
BMW showcases cars that run on hydrogen
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- BMW
officials traveled to one of the nation's smoggiest cities to show off a fleet of
luxury cars that run on rocket fuel, but belch virtually nothing more than
water and steam from their tailpipes.
Company officials said Thursday that the hydrogen-powered cars are an important
step in weaning the automotive industry from the oil that has nurtured it since the
internal combustion engine first powered automobiles in the late 1800s.
The silver 750hL sedans sport a new type of internal combustion engine that runs
on clean-burning hydrogen -- the most abundant element -- instead of gasoline.
"It's the cleanest fuel there is," said Burkhard Goschel, a member of the BMW
Group board, during a news conference at Paramount studios.
BMW has hauled the 10 cars from United Arab Emirates to Europe to Japan and
now California to tout the benefits of hydrogen as a fuel source.
The company will now continue to test the cars at its new research and engineering
center, which opens Friday in Oxnard, California. Already, the fleet has covered
more than 80,000 miles during tests.
When burned, hydrogen packs a powerful punch -- it helps propel the space shuttle
to orbit. In the BMW models, it cuts tailpipe emissions by 99.5 percent.
The 750hL features a 12-cylinder engine and can hit 141 mph.
Running on hydrogen, stored in a liquid form in a pressurized tank, the car can
travel about 200 miles -- more if an auxiliary gasoline tank is tapped to fuel the car.
But concerns about storing liquid hydrogen under high pressure have stymied its use
in automobiles because of the risk of explosions and fire, experts said. A lack of a
cheap and reliable means of producing hydrogen -- and distributing it to consumers
has also hurt the marketing of such cars.
Widescale commercial production may still be a decade or more away, although
BMW hopes to introduce hydrogen-powered 7-Series models before then. Ford
Motor Co. is not far behind: it plans to unveil its own prototype hydrogen-fueled
internal combustion engine vehicle next month, spokeswoman Sara Tatchio said.
"The challenge will be to create infrastructure and devise a way to store hydrogen
on board," said John Boesel, president of Calstart, a nonprofit group that develops
clean transportation technologies.
Hydrogen can be produced from water through electrolysis or, more commonly,
from natural gas generated during the oil refining process.
The road ahead
The methods are either energy-intensive or costly -- or both -- at present.
"Hydrogen cannot compete with gasoline on a cost basis ... (but) we believe as
usage increases, it can become competitive," said Bob Malone, a regional president
of oil company BP Corp.
Goschel said the company has not calculated how much a hydrogen-fueled BMW
750 would cost compared to a conventional version, which sells for about $93,000.
And hydrogen service stations may be still a decade away.
"We're a long way from putting hydrogen out there," said Alan Lloyd, chairman of
the California Air Resources Board.
The automotive industry has yet to latch on to hydrogen or any other alternative to
gasoline or diesel fuel.
Many manufacturers, including General Motors, are looking at hydrogen, but only
to power fuel cells to produce electricity. Honda and Toyota have both introduced
hybrid models that pair gasoline engines with electric motors to boost fuel efficiency
and cut emissions. Ford, GM and DaimlerChrysler AG plan to introduce their own
versions in 2003.
California -- where 40 percent of all air pollution is produced by tailpipe emissions --
has mandated strict standards that should make the exotic vehicles more common.
By 2003, for instance, 2 percent of all vehicles sold in the state by major
manufacturers must be zero emissions.
"We have a variety of fuels that can steer us on the road ahead," Lloyd said.
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Zapata ]
07-13-2001, 03:20 PM
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This is an old story. Bottom line is the technology works. As always in the auto industry, it's problem will be getting the fuel industry to sell Hydrogen and not gas....
07-13-2001, 03:35 PM
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Hydrogen is a great alternative fuel because of the power potential but there are a few problems. First you need a very costly PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane). Second it is hard to deliver the hydrogen to fueling stations because it is so flammable/unstable. I think it has to be both pressurized and supercooled. Right now the only car companies working on hydrogen technology are BMW and Mazda I think. IMO the future is gonna be a gasoline/electric hybrid. Some company just developed a supercharger that also produces electricity which would be perfect because it boost the poor performence of a hybrid and it charges the battery so all you have to do is add gasoline.
07-13-2001, 04:22 PM
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Ok folks. I have to say this:
**This is extremely bad timing for public relations.**
Their X5 4.4i SUV is blowing up & being recalled and at the same time they are going to market this V12 that runs on Hydrogen, excuse me hydrogen?
awfully bad timing.
To the historian freaks out there. Yes, hydrogen was determined not to be the cause of the disastrous fire aboard the famous Hindenburg zeppelin: http://engineer.ea.ucla.edu/releases/blimp.htm
BUT
"for more than 60 years, the word "hydrogen" has evoked the newsreel images of the huge craft being consumed by a fireball as it drifted to the ground."
**This is extremely bad timing for public relations.**
Their X5 4.4i SUV is blowing up & being recalled and at the same time they are going to market this V12 that runs on Hydrogen, excuse me hydrogen?
awfully bad timing.
To the historian freaks out there. Yes, hydrogen was determined not to be the cause of the disastrous fire aboard the famous Hindenburg zeppelin: http://engineer.ea.ucla.edu/releases/blimp.htm
BUT
"for more than 60 years, the word "hydrogen" has evoked the newsreel images of the huge craft being consumed by a fireball as it drifted to the ground."
07-13-2001, 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by bioyuki:
<STRONG>Hydrogen is a great alternative fuel because of the power potential but there are a few problems. First you need a very costly PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane). Second it is hard to deliver the hydrogen to fueling stations because it is so flammable/unstable. I think it has to be both pressurized and supercooled. Right now the only car companies working on hydrogen technology are BMW and Mazda I think. IMO the future is gonna be a gasoline/electric hybrid. Some company just developed a supercharger that also produces electricity which would be perfect because it boost the poor performence of a hybrid and it charges the battery so all you have to do is add gasoline.</STRONG>
<STRONG>Hydrogen is a great alternative fuel because of the power potential but there are a few problems. First you need a very costly PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane). Second it is hard to deliver the hydrogen to fueling stations because it is so flammable/unstable. I think it has to be both pressurized and supercooled. Right now the only car companies working on hydrogen technology are BMW and Mazda I think. IMO the future is gonna be a gasoline/electric hybrid. Some company just developed a supercharger that also produces electricity which would be perfect because it boost the poor performence of a hybrid and it charges the battery so all you have to do is add gasoline.</STRONG>
and the station was like automated with robotic fuel pumping arms which used laser targeting so that it would not make a mistake
while injecting the pump into the car
I looked like an awfully expensive station in Germany pumping super cooled hydrogen.
So in short safety is a huge concern as well as cost.
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07-14-2001, 03:36 AM
#8
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Originally posted by Zapata:
<STRONG>bahahahah!! very funny, and true.....let's hope something like that wouldn't happen. Those crazy germans may never get it huh?
</STRONG>
<STRONG>bahahahah!! very funny, and true.....let's hope something like that wouldn't happen. Those crazy germans may never get it huh?
</STRONG>
The Hindenburg Zepplin was Jaar-man
hahahhaha more coincidence.
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