juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

It had nothing to do with abuse. It had to do with an admitted and subsequently "fixed" design flaw.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

My wife had a 2002 A6 2.8 Quattro and by 100,000 miles when we traded it the only thing that went wrong was that the driver's seat belt needed replacing or fixing....I don't know what they actually did. It wouldn't pull back and the slack just held steady. I hope that describes it well. LOL

That was at 90,000 miles, and we had it fixed in one trip.

She now has a 2009 A4 3.2 Quattro. Obviously it's still new but it's been fine so far.

Now my Acura TL, 2004, has had the peekaboo dash lights that have been fixed three times now, and the transmission went (admittedly much rarer in 3Gs than 2Gs).

German reliability problems are SOOOOOOOO overstated it isn't funny. Well actually it is. I laugh at idiots who continue mocking German quality. They are fools.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Moose shit.

MrX123

I'm just running on logic. The vast, VAST majority of users on boards like these mod their cars (like crazy) and would consider themselves "enthusiasts"...I mean no disrespect, but I see crazy avatars, some with turbo guages and shit, and all kinds of warning lights on too...see where I'm going? Are you really telling me that a perfectly cared for, non abused 2G tranny would just go out at 70k? I'm no mechanic, hell, I can't DIY ANYTHING, but I refuse to believe that ANY Audi is more reliable than Honda...is that a joke? They must have done a COMPLETE 180 in order for those claims to be true.

Again, I am a huge fan of german cars, hell, I've been debating on buying a 99 W140 S500 for 2 years...that's my absolute favorite car in the world hands down....have come VERY close, but just scared away from maintenance, even though I know full well how that car (and german cars in general) are "overengineered." That car was built to last 25 years.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Sorry but the overwhelming majority of TL buyers aren't "enthusiasts" like us and just bought a nice car to move em around, and this happened to them.

It was a terrible transmission from a reliability standpoint, and this cannot be hidden behind the it's-an-automatic mantra.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

again.

Yes, that's what we're saying. There were tens of thousands of tranny failures in several models of Honda's and Acura's... not just TL's. It was a design flaw in their 5-speed automatic tranny which caused the failures... many well below 70k. I think we had a few on here as low as 15k. And then their first few "fixes" didn't solve the issue, so many people went through multiple trannys... some as many as 3 or 4. It had nothing to do with abuse. It had everything to do with a shitty design. That is why Honda/Acura issued a recall and extended the tranny warranty to 100k on the affected Honda and Acura models


The point we are trying to make is that they have done a 180. Snoop around this forum and read info related to people's experience with German cars. Also check some German car forums? Seriously, things have changed big-time over the last 5 years. In fact, most of the members who are in Car Talk have been on this forum for years, some since day one. And almost all of us now own a German car and haven't owned an Acura for years... and most of us have sworn off Acura altogether. Also, pickup a Consumer Reports or JD Power list (as I mentioned above) and start check that out. Overall yes, Honda is very reliable, however, it is not like it used to be. There are German companies who rate higher then Japanese b/c over the years the German's have been improving while the Japanese have been declining.


EDIT - Kind of reworded some of the reply b/c I re-read it and it came across with a tone I did not intend... so I fixed it up.

.

Crazy Bimmer

^ Acura recalled the trannys? Thought they just extended the warranty and called it a day

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Sorry... not a recall. A service bulletin (plus letters to the owners informing them of the "fix" and warranty extension).

My bad

MrX123

Bet you wouldn't have had I not disclosed my obsession with the W140. Do a search if you like, you can read the thread I started about that automobile...and you should be able to clearly tell that I'm just as big of a fan of ze Germans as anyone on this motherfucker...lol.

I could literally write for hours straight (and I have) about the zillion+1 things that make the W140....the W140.

MrX123

Consumer Reports' most reliable cars
5 of 9
Upscale/luxury car: Infiniti M35 (RWD)
Also very reliable:
Lexus IS250

Acura TSX (2008)

Infini G35 sedan (RWD)

Acura TL (2008)

Lexus GS450h hybrid


http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...ble/index.html

There is not one single BMW, Benz, and sure as hell no Audi on that whole entire list (like not just that list of mid size cars, all categories). 95% are Japanese, mostly Honda and Toyota, not surprisingly.

MrX123

http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...s-1.1214914#10

6 Japs, 4 Americans, ZERO Germans.

However, I am impressed with Porsche getting the #1 spot on the JD list.

MrX123

And this is off topic sorta, but speaking of reliable cars, I will be sad to see the Panther cars go. I don't really know why, but I like them. They are ancient, slow, out of date, but bulletproof...I'd like to find a cheap old cop car for like a grand solely to tow my boat...I know the body on frame could handle it....good old American iron! Parts are plentiful and cheap as hell.

MrX123

Not even a little bit? It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it? I'm not buying that. Not saying there wasn't a flaw....hell, I had a '97 Maxima 5spd when I was a teen 10 years ago, I absolutely drove that car into the ground, and I remember pitching a fit when the internal bearings went, thinking, "How can this be, it's a Nissan?!?" Abuse. That was still a great car.

Crazy Bimmer

Just enjoy your TL. You bought the best generation.

phee

iTrader: (5)

i went through 3 trannies in one year. one went at 5k...just sayin

Infamous425

ask all those oddy/pilot owners too who had the same tranny failures in their cars. i bet their other car didnt have the tranny fail on them. abuse had nothing to do with it in honda's case. in your maxima's case then yeah it was abuse.

TheMirror

All the dragstrip launches my 60-something mom did in her V6 Accord must have been responsible for the tranny giving up at 90K miles.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

MrX123

Agreed. My god I don't even want to know the flame wars re: 3G vs 4G. They actually drive quite well I think, but they are an absolute disgrace to look at. What were they smoking and where can I buy some? It's like Acura is no longer a "phat car" to me, at least not the new ones. TSX V6 is okay.... The worst part about that snout is that IT'S PLASTIC! Felt it in the showroom! They could at least have used a decent material!

MrX123

And you all can spare me the condescending smileys and crap. That's just how auto forums are, but to me, it's like me saying that the TL is sportier than the 3 series if you're gonna say a Bimmer is more reliable.

A Honda Accord versus a BMW?

Is that really even debateable?

Sure, Bimmers last a long, long time with proper care and maintenance, I'm not saying they don't, but the operating cost of a Honda/Acura is much, much lower, 99.999999% of the time, 2nd gen tranny issues and all.

A Honda Accord is sportier than a 335i. Sounds stupid, doesn't it? It's relevant to note that the Accord has been on the C&D 10 best list for 24 out of the 28 years. BMW has made it 19. C&D loves the Accord chassis. That doesn't mean it beats BMW at it's own game, and it's vice versa the other way around.

And don't forget, I'm actually on your sides. Read my first post: I'd GLADLY drive a 335, 535, if I could afford it. It's just dissapointing that such an impressive engine has issues like this. My said Maxima's jewel of a motor (the first US VQ30DE in the 95 Maxima was absolutely PHENOMENAL, I don't care who you are), and it had the reliability to back it up. I sometimes even think it was an even better motor than the much more powerful Honda V6 I'm running now. I can't really describe the throttle response of that car....it was that good. Relatively quick, but not powerful enough to REALLY expose the limits of FWD, which I admit I hate about my TL. Which is why I'd love to have a Bimmer.

But I take peace in driving an Acura.

It's a decent compromise for sure.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

You shouldn't let something like that bother you. It's the motherfucking internet.

This is hilarious. You're judging 10Best as being representative of which car is "sportier"?

Spare me.

Oh wait, it looks like at the end you realize this. Why bother saying that someone could argue it in the fashion you suggested? That would make them an idiot. Next we'll just decide which truck can tow the most by which one makes Truck of the Year most often.

Fail.

There are no "sides". There's reality, which some of us offered up, and there's you deluded impression of German reliability.

Two different things, but they aren't sides.

TheMirror

I believe we have reached the law of diminishing returns in this nice thread. Time for a merciful perhaps?

MrX123

Who says it bothers me? It's just stupid. Just tell me that you can take a piss longer and farther than me, and spare me the 3rd grade rhetoric for god's sake.


No, I'm illustrating the point that it's FUCKING RIDICULOUS to call a BMW more reliable than an Acura, just as it's it's equal to call said Acura more of a sporty/sports car than BMW, save the NSX. Oh wait that car changed supercars, remember? Ferrari performance and Honda reliability. Good mix.

Read what I said, here I'll quote it for you: "C&D loves the Accord chassis. That doesn't mean it beats BMW at it's own game, and it's vice versa the other way around."

What I'm saying is, the Accord is praised for being a very pleasant, RELIABLE appliance, with a hint of soul in it's chassis. It has been well regarded and received. It is debatably the most reliable car ever made, or AT THE VERY LEAST one of the most reliable cars ever made. Cheap to own, drive and maintain as well.

BMW's aren't, and that's not what they're really known for. They are known for emotion, passion, great things, but damn expensive to run. It's like you're saying 2+2=5.

If you're saying that a BMW is a more reliable car than Acura (with a straight face, lol), then it is certainly reasonable, by the same logic, for me to say that my TL is sportier than a 335i. It's that dead wrong, why can't you realize this?


[QUOTE=MyCarIsntInMyWifesName;12102499]
Oh wait, it looks like at the end you realize this. Why bother saying that someone could argue it in the fashion you suggested? That would make them an idiot. Next we'll just decide which truck can tow the most by which one makes Truck of the Year most often.[QUOTE=MyCarIsntInMyWifesName;12102499]

Say what?


BULLSHIT! My favorite car is Mercedes! I see W124's/W140's, even W126's daily with I'm sure well over 200k on them...are they as cheap to keep on the road as a Honda?

NO, and that's all I'm saying.

Jesus!

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Yep, especially with the that doesn't like reality and won't believe it, judging by this thread.

Lock, please!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

JD Power 2010 Vehicle Dependability study for Mid-Size Premium cars. TL didn't even make the list. Top two cars are German:
1) Audi A6/S6
2) Lexus ES 350
3) Cadillac STS

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...ze-premium-car


Entry Premium. Lincoln beat out Acura and both the A3 and A4 are very close in ratings to the TL. The TSX better then the TL.
1) Lincoln MKZ
2) Acura TSX
3) Cadillac CTS

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...remium-vehicle


Mid-Size car. First two companies are American and both beat out Honda:
1) Buick LaCrosse
2) Mercury Milan
3) Honda Accord

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...ry/midsize-car


And the entire list again as I replied a couple pages back showing Porsche #1 overall...
So, as I (and many others now) have said for the last few pages... give me another A6 or a BMW any day over an Acura. Overall just a much better owner experience. And the fact that Audi and BMW have stepped up their game as far as reliability is just icing on the cake. Even the domestics are stepping up and closing the gap.

And that is from personal experience. You have an Acura, you love it... nothing wrong with that. I loved my Acura's. My TL-S was one of my favorite cars. However, bottom line is that my CL and TL were in the shop and had much larger issues then our A4 and A6. With one or two small exceptions, neither of our Audi's were in the shop for anything other then scheduled maintenance and oil changes. Of which, by the way, is free as it was paid for by Audi up to 75k miles.

So overall, is Honda still better then BMW. Of course. Nothing can make up for the lousy reliability of the 7-series and X5 which bring the overall rankings for BMW down. But that said, their most popular vehicles (3 and 5 series) can seriously hold their own against the Japanese companies these days. The playing field has been all but leveled.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

And now that you've owned him again, you can lock this thread because we all know he won't get it.

MrX123

Lol dude you are just the epitome of your average car forum idiot.

He didn't "own" me. He presented his JD Power facts, and I presented my consumer reports, etc. Go back and read posts 130 and 131; I didn't make that up. If anything, they sort of contradict with each other. Both JD Power and CR are pretty solid sources.

While you sit there and complete the stereotype, he respectfully counters, offers his opinion, shows me what he's got. I can respect that. He can't be "wrong" if he has had a better experience with his Audi. That's great, and I'm happy that they are indeed "closing the gap." But they're still not Honda.

This is really getting pointless. Remember, I LOVE GERMAN CARS!!!!! HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY THAT? You all don't need to convince me that German cars are "better", I know that! They just aren't as reliable as a Honda, and that's all I was saying.



I really can't say anymore without mealy-mouthing, so this is where I end it.

The pissing contest is over.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

CR already admitted their fanboyism with Toyota, giving them high marks when the truth was unknown.

So....yeah.

You're the typical CR reading type.

I offered my opinion/experiences as well with Audi. You just threw a nasty fit when everyone disagreed with you.

Speaking of respect, calling me an idiot seems to be hypocritical.

It doesn't matter what you like. You have the truth wrong. Simple as that.

It wasn't even a contest LMAO.

It ended a long time ago when you make ridiculous comments.

And with that I depart this thread. Good day.

MrX123

Okay I just couldn't let this one go....

Yeah yeah yeah....as far as I know they halted their recommendation on like 8 Toyota/Lexus models due to the GX...because of a stability control issue? That's a whole other issue entirely. It could be argued that they're being too harsh against them.....take a 2.5k SUV and turn it like that and, well, I'm sure I don't have to explain physics to someone as all-knowing as you.

What is that supposed to mean?

Show me where this "nasty fit" is. Please, I'd like to know. You're the one who got into a pissing contest with like 3 other people on here....same thing every time, you just can't be wrong, and you can't not have the last word....however a very interesting re-read.

The closest thing to a "nasty fit" that I did was say this: "And you all can spare me the condescending smileys and crap." And since you mentioned it, that was actually directed at you...because, again, with the smileys. That's a far cry from a "nasty fit."

Dude, you are a piece of work. Congratulations. This is what I mean by "mealy mouthing."

Really? No pissing contest? There you are, provoking someone, and that's just one of the other several "debates" you've had in this thread alone. You really fit the stereo-type DEAD ON! God, I knew there was a reason I gave Maxima.org a rest. People like you!

What that BMW, Audi and MB haven't dethroned Honda yet reliability wise?

It's true.

Oh please...

Legend2TL

It was more than a design flaw, the problem was also the external vendor who performed the machining and processing of some of the transmission components (countershaft). Honda did not perform adequate source inspection of the components either. Besides tolerances, there was hardness issues. I know handful of 2G TL owners who went through multiple gearboxes, however I also know a couple with over 150K miles on their 2G TL's on the original gearboxes and they've never had a problem. This was well documented in a LA Times article a few years ago but last time I checked it's no longer online.

Legend2TL

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

So by your definition are JD Powers fools in their view of VW and Audi?

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Don't be a fool. By those JD Powers standards they're generally "average", which is not "unreliable".

I also was not talking about VW, so that's a load of horse shit. We were pretty clearly talking about premium German brands. VW is always another story.

Legend2TL

You never implied that when you wrote
"German reliability problems are SOOOOOOOO overstated it isn't funny. Well actually it is. I laugh at idiots who continue mocking German quality. They are fools."

2 out of 5 stars for Audi in powertrain is not average by my viewpoint. Of course this is coming from a ex-Audi owner whose 100LS left me stranded too many times, so I tend to value powertrain dependability.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The rest of them were ranked three, or average. That puts them ahead of some American brands, even Dodge, and even Dodge has a better reputation for reliability than German cars in some circles.

Like I said, the discussion was of premium German brands. If you didn't get that, then I'm sorry. Too bad.

P.S. We've had two Audis and they've been fine.

Legend2TL

The discussion was about the BMW N54 engine reliability, then others brought up Ford, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Honda, Acura, MB, ...so no the discussion was not about premium German cars. And you wrote German not premium German so the rest of us get that.


Back to the original topic, I know little about the N54 but my wife's co-worker's husband is a BMW tech who's worked on BMW's for over 3 decades. Besides the well documented high pressure fuel pump issues, the only other N54 area he's told me about is the early production motors had smaller oil coolers which led to problems with oil overheating and some turbo damage. Other than that he says the latest BMW's in general have been great from a dependability/reliability point of view.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

lol. Not gonna lock it... but you guys can continue the conversation. I'm done. We're just going in circles here. Funny thing is that I actually hate quoting sources like JD Power, Consumer Reports, etc. I just do not think they're all that accurate. But when trying to prove a point with data, it's really all you can use.

Originally it was about the N54, but it expanded to included Germans in general a few pages back. While this isn't Ramblings... it's still Off-Topic... so it happens from time to time

Well this is where the debate shifted. We're talking about Audi today... not Audi 5+ years ago. And no one said they were perfect, just that German reliability has come a long way over the last half decade or so...


Anyway all.... feel free to keep the debate going, just try to keep it civil and make sure not to attack each other
.

cuteguy1414

iTrader: (1)

ajt123, I support you in this argument. Fanboys cannot see arguments. They only see what they want to see. An I do not agree that Audi's reliability have gotten better in the last 5 years. We have a 2006 A4 convertible whose interior is falling apart, whose transmission has been replaced already and other really annoying issues. But we are willing to give Audi one more chance as my wife might get an A5 convertible not because of the reliability but it is the only convertible worth buying that can handle winter ( AWD or FWD ).

Peace

Legend2TL

I'd have to say 4+ years, my neighbor's 2006 A8L was a reliability/dependability nightmare. So far a co-workers 2007 A3 wagon has been OK.

I agree let's keep the discussion debate civil

pttl

Don't want to side track this thread too badly.

BUT can someone explain the 2.0T engine in cars such as the A4, A5...which I completely love the look of...How can a 211 hp engine have enough guts to make such cars remotely fun to drive? 211 hp seems, on paper, to be a real weak sister. Anyone????

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Sorry for all the smileys... but that really made me laugh pretty hard. The LOL is for calling people on an Acura forum fanboys. Most of whom have been here for years and have owned more Acura's then German makes and speak from first hand experience. And also for disagreeing with facts. No one is saying German cars are better then Japanese overall, but the facts are that over the last 5 years they are more reliable overall as proven by many, many reliability surveys. Five plus years ago CR wouldn't touch an Audi or BMW whereas now each have multiple models on the "Recommended" list... a list which is heavily weighted by reliability.


I wouldn't touch an A8 with your arms! Give me any model below the A8. I'd probably even buy a 7 series before an A8 . OK, maybe not. Either would be a big reliability gamble

Weird how the manufacturers can get their "lower" models right, but it doesn't trickle up to the flagship models.