Is BMW N54 a POS?
06-10-2010, 05:20 PM
#41
Banned
The N54 has other issues than HPFP and I would avoid it.
Too bad that BMW feels that a 270-300HP engine should have at least one turbo. If I wanted a 300HP engine, I would have preferred a 3.5-3.7 atmospheric.
Too bad that BMW feels that a 270-300HP engine should have at least one turbo. If I wanted a 300HP engine, I would have preferred a 3.5-3.7 atmospheric.
06-10-2010, 05:31 PM
#42
fap fap fap
06-10-2010, 05:39 PM
#43
My Garage
06-10-2010, 06:10 PM
#44
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BMW has never been about the bigger displacement I6, you should know that. I love the M54 engine in my 330xi, it's a blast to drive. Adding turbos to that would only make it that much better. If I liked the styling of the E90 better I'd happily save up for one of them a few years down the road.
06-10-2010, 06:11 PM
#45
I have 12K miles on mine and did have the HPFP replaced @ 7K due to an occasional long (4-5 second) crank when starting. But the N54 is an incredible piece of engineering, in fact, the whole damn car is. I've got a silly grin on my face each and every time I drive it. BMW's 300hp/300tq numbers are very conservative. Owners and trade rags have dyno'd stock cars and have seen numbers close to that at the wheels. Plus, for $30 I can pick up a used JB2 and get an additional 30hp/30tq or for $350 get a new JB3 along with 80hp/80tq. I may do that when the warranty is up -- too much risk in my mind now that BMW is cracking down on performance mods.
06-10-2010, 06:30 PM
#46
Banned
About everybody have them! Examples are numerous, but my favorite remains the Toyota 3.5L as in the IS350. Fuel economy is even better than the N54, with the same level of performance... and no nicknacks to worry about. Nissan VQ is very good too, but a notch under, being rougher.
BMW has a very efficient direct injection 3.0L 272HP in Europe introduced 2-3 year as ago. In an heavier 330Xi coupe, it gets better fuel economy than an Audi 4-cyl. TTS!
BMW has a very efficient direct injection 3.0L 272HP in Europe introduced 2-3 year as ago. In an heavier 330Xi coupe, it gets better fuel economy than an Audi 4-cyl. TTS!
06-10-2010, 06:53 PM
#47
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The 335 feels like a monster compared to both engines and it has less HP (or equal) than both the tl and the g.
The 335 is much faster, and also feels much faster on the street because it has much more usable power.
1) A very broad powerband with peak torque occuring at 1500 rpms and staying relatively flat.
2) Much more torque than either the tl and the g.
For both of those reasons, the FI engines feel like a freight train compared to these high strung sixes. They only feel fast if you rev them out all the time. I dont drive like that, and i love the feeling of tons of torque at any rpm in any gear.
I think these FI motors are the future. The power of the v8 with less weight and better gas mileage.
06-10-2010, 06:56 PM
#48
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Forgot to mention in the previous post, the 943 HPFP is now out of commisison. It has been replaced with the remanufactured 933 model. From what I have gathered from the E90post forums, no valid fix has been found yet.
Despite this, my insanity and love of FI motors and torque compels me to still consider a 335 for my next car (in the next six months).
Despite this, my insanity and love of FI motors and torque compels me to still consider a 335 for my next car (in the next six months).
06-10-2010, 08:05 PM
#49
Drifting
BMW has never been about the bigger displacement I6, you should know that. I love the M54 engine in my 330xi, it's a blast to drive. Adding turbos to that would only make it that much better. If I liked the styling of the E90 better I'd happily save up for one of them a few years down the road.
We didn't see much of the e34 m5 here but it had a 3.8 liter i6 making 340hp. I doubt it could meet bmw's current weight and mpg requirements, but they did have it. Heck I don't think the m30 or s38 ever made it into the 3 series in production (although it was a much smaller car then).
06-10-2010, 08:09 PM
#50
My Garage
About everybody have them! Examples are numerous, but my favorite remains the Toyota 3.5L as in the IS350. Fuel economy is even better than the N54, with the same level of performance... and no nicknacks to worry about. Nissan VQ is very good too, but a notch under, being rougher.
BMW has a very efficient direct injection 3.0L 272HP in Europe introduced 2-3 year as ago. In an heavier 330Xi coupe, it gets better fuel economy than an Audi 4-cyl. TTS!
BMW has a very efficient direct injection 3.0L 272HP in Europe introduced 2-3 year as ago. In an heavier 330Xi coupe, it gets better fuel economy than an Audi 4-cyl. TTS!
06-10-2010, 08:26 PM
#51
Nothing against the sedan, I'm just a coupe guy
06-10-2010, 09:54 PM
#52
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My guess is that the 933's are remanufactured 881's with some internal differences. Just a theory......
06-10-2010, 10:40 PM
#53
Drifting
What years are we talking about? I don't completely understand what the OP is talking about, but those engines aren't unreliable. It is just bad stereotypes. The thing is, in (I think) the 2011 335i's, they are switching back to a larger, single turbo'ed engine. I think it will be different. OP if you are asking b/c you want one, it might be wise to wait for the 2011 ones...
06-11-2010, 12:12 AM
#54
The FI engine has many performance advantages over a v6 300 hp engine. Have you ever driven a tl, a g, and then a 335?
The 335 feels like a monster compared to both engines and it has less HP (or equal) than both the tl and the g.
The 335 is much faster, and also feels much faster on the street because it has much more usable power.
1) A very broad powerband with peak torque occuring at 1500 rpms and staying relatively flat.
2) Much more torque than either the tl and the g.
For both of those reasons, the FI engines feel like a freight train compared to these high strung sixes. They only feel fast if you rev them out all the time. I dont drive like that, and i love the feeling of tons of torque at any rpm in any gear.
I think these FI motors are the future. The power of the v8 with less weight and better gas mileage.
The 335 feels like a monster compared to both engines and it has less HP (or equal) than both the tl and the g.
The 335 is much faster, and also feels much faster on the street because it has much more usable power.
1) A very broad powerband with peak torque occuring at 1500 rpms and staying relatively flat.
2) Much more torque than either the tl and the g.
For both of those reasons, the FI engines feel like a freight train compared to these high strung sixes. They only feel fast if you rev them out all the time. I dont drive like that, and i love the feeling of tons of torque at any rpm in any gear.
I think these FI motors are the future. The power of the v8 with less weight and better gas mileage.
06-11-2010, 12:50 AM
#55
Interesting thread this turned out!
And like I said all along, I would GLADLY risk it and drive one, if I could afford it.
The 335i coupe is one of the best looking BMWs of late IMO.
But come on guys, even with the 2g TL tranny problems, Acura is a FAR MORE RELIABLE car than BMW. Here come the flames!
And like I said all along, I would GLADLY risk it and drive one, if I could afford it.
The 335i coupe is one of the best looking BMWs of late IMO.
But come on guys, even with the 2g TL tranny problems, Acura is a FAR MORE RELIABLE car than BMW. Here come the flames!
06-11-2010, 01:28 AM
#56
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Having driven a 335 as well as the IS350 and G37 I can say the N54 engine is far superior to any competing engine aside from the new S4, but I haven't driven that personally anyway.
You never have to wind it up to go the way those cars have to. Nudge the throttle and it leaps, even in the much heavier 535.
The IS350 and G37 feel strong (because they are) until you drive the BMW and they quickly seem a step down. The 3.7 AWD TL falls below even them in this regard.
You never have to wind it up to go the way those cars have to. Nudge the throttle and it leaps, even in the much heavier 535.
The IS350 and G37 feel strong (because they are) until you drive the BMW and they quickly seem a step down. The 3.7 AWD TL falls below even them in this regard.
06-11-2010, 03:24 AM
#57
I would rather take a swift kick in the nuts than choose a 4G SH-AWD 6MT over a 335i. I'd even take an automatic 335i over a 4G.
06-11-2010, 04:23 AM
#58
06-11-2010, 06:10 AM
#59
Originally Posted by MyCarIsntInMyWifesName
...even in the much heavier 535.
06-11-2010, 07:37 AM
#60
Administrator Alumnus
The one element about my 335 I still can't get over is the motor. I get 23mpg, 90/10 city to highway. Pretty friggin good. Haven't had my HPFP fail yet and if it does, I'm covered.
06-11-2010, 09:35 AM
#61
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06-11-2010, 10:39 AM
#63
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A lot of people assume the 535i, being larger, is considerably heavier than the 335i. It isn't. The gross weight of the 535i (E60) is less than 70 pounds heavier than that of the 335i thanks to the use of lots of light-weight materials. For example, the suspension pieces, subframes, and front body components are aluminum. The actual weight difference will obviously vary depending on what tranny and options are in each vehicle.
06-11-2010, 11:53 AM
#65
Senior Moderator
I would rather that than any acura products right now. To me they are all shit right now. They lost their way and need to find it badly.
06-11-2010, 12:41 PM
#67
Banned
I don't think that the N54 does better than competition in fuel economy. Even 328HP G37 gets better number. BMW claims for the N55 10% improvement over the N54 and 100% torque at 1200rpm.... almost crazy; now that's impressive.
06-11-2010, 12:47 PM
#68
Banned
The FI engine has many performance advantages over a v6 300 hp engine. Have you ever driven a tl, a g, and then a 335?
The 335 feels like a monster compared to both engines and it has less HP (or equal) than both the tl and the g.
The 335 is much faster, and also feels much faster on the street because it has much more usable power.
1) A very broad powerband with peak torque occuring at 1500 rpms and staying relatively flat.
2) Much more torque than either the tl and the g.
For both of those reasons, the FI engines feel like a freight train compared to these high strung sixes. They only feel fast if you rev them out all the time. I dont drive like that, and i love the feeling of tons of torque at any rpm in any gear.
I think these FI motors are the future. The power of the v8 with less weight and better gas mileage.
The 335 feels like a monster compared to both engines and it has less HP (or equal) than both the tl and the g.
The 335 is much faster, and also feels much faster on the street because it has much more usable power.
1) A very broad powerband with peak torque occuring at 1500 rpms and staying relatively flat.
2) Much more torque than either the tl and the g.
For both of those reasons, the FI engines feel like a freight train compared to these high strung sixes. They only feel fast if you rev them out all the time. I dont drive like that, and i love the feeling of tons of torque at any rpm in any gear.
I think these FI motors are the future. The power of the v8 with less weight and better gas mileage.
If so, the N54 'direct injection' is an half-ass effort, IMO. The 'real' direct injection is found in the N53, for the 2008+ Euro 325i/330i introduced after the N54. Of course, they all have air + fuel injected directly in the cylinder, but the high pressure is different and the way the fuel is injected.
You can also find this difference between the 2.0T of VW vs Audi, the latter being much more efficient.
06-11-2010, 12:54 PM
#69
You seem to be forgetting how the German makes are generally climbing the lists while some of the Japanese makes are slipping down. Case in point... Porsche was #1. Your statement may have been valid 5-6 years ago, but it's a completely different landscape now...
06-11-2010, 01:20 PM
#71
My Garage
06-11-2010, 03:02 PM
#72
Banned
You saved too many word. Be more specific next about what you referring to. And I"ll decide to answer or not.
To answer the question; fuel injectors are of a special type and 300$ each to replace. Not widespread, but a common N54 issue.
There are also cases of wastegate issues. Overheating seems to be a problem solved.
06-11-2010, 03:07 PM
#73
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Ok, I'll bite. What's FI? 20-30 years ago, it was referring to fuel injection, as opposed of using carburetors. Are you talking about direct injection?
If so, the N54 'direct injection' is an half-ass effort, IMO. The 'real' direct injection is found in the N53, for the 2008+ Euro 325i/330i introduced after the N54. Of course, they all have air + fuel injected directly in the cylinder, but the high pressure is different and the way the fuel is injected.
You can also find this difference between the 2.0T of VW vs Audi, the latter being much more efficient.
If so, the N54 'direct injection' is an half-ass effort, IMO. The 'real' direct injection is found in the N53, for the 2008+ Euro 325i/330i introduced after the N54. Of course, they all have air + fuel injected directly in the cylinder, but the high pressure is different and the way the fuel is injected.
You can also find this difference between the 2.0T of VW vs Audi, the latter being much more efficient.
Sorry for the jargon.
IMO forced induction motors get more power, better gas mileage, and lighter weight. Not to mention the easy and cheap tuning potential of these cars.
06-11-2010, 03:15 PM
#74
Banned
Well I owned three turbo cars and only one of them was convincing.
A few exceptions aside (2.0T in Mk V/VI) I also fail to see that mainstream current turbo cars are generally better than their higher displacement NA competition (Acura did the right putting a V6 in the TSX instead of that 2.3L turbo).
A few exceptions aside (2.0T in Mk V/VI) I also fail to see that mainstream current turbo cars are generally better than their higher displacement NA competition (Acura did the right putting a V6 in the TSX instead of that 2.3L turbo).
06-11-2010, 03:24 PM
#75
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Well I owned three turbo cars and only one of them was convincing.
A few exceptions aside (2.0T in Mk V/VI) I also fail to see that mainstream current turbo cars are generally better than their higher displacement NA competition (Acura did the right putting a V6 in the TSX instead of that 2.3L turbo).
A few exceptions aside (2.0T in Mk V/VI) I also fail to see that mainstream current turbo cars are generally better than their higher displacement NA competition (Acura did the right putting a V6 in the TSX instead of that 2.3L turbo).
And no Acura did not do the right thing. Now they've got two sedans that are arguably midsize with an identical drivetrain and door count going for the same money. It would've been different if the TSX was powered by the K23 and had SH-AWD, thus making it a different animal altogether.
06-11-2010, 03:38 PM
#78
Banned
Another evidence. TL AWD 300HP gets better fuel economy than the RDX AWD 240HP. Same weight. What was the idea of turbo again?
06-11-2010, 03:44 PM
#79
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Moving on, SERIOUSLY? You're comparing an SUV to a sedan? That's really a bad move. The RDX is notorious for not having a particularly great engine in terms of engineering. Honda used 80's methods and technology when designing it.
For example, compare any V-6 family sedan to the new Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima with their turbo option. The Koreans make 274 horsepower and 269 lb-ft and are rated for much better fuel economy at 22/34 versus the best in class Camry V-6 at 20/29.
What was the point of the extra displacement and pistons again?
06-11-2010, 03:45 PM
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BTW the GDI Turbo only needs regular to hit all of those marks whereas some competing engines (like the Nissan VQ35) have a requirement for premium, AND the Nissan has the supposed fuel saving CVT.