BMW 528i 4 cylinder? NO THANKS!!
08-22-2011, 05:37 PM
#43
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^ that would certainly take away some sales 
08-22-2011, 06:28 PM
#44
Suzuka Master
I don't care if it has more power, and I don't care if it works everywhere else in the world; this is America. The E39 was seriously probably the most fun car I've driven (and I've driven alot), and now we have electric, numb steering, a thousand more pounds, and a 4 cylinder to boot?
Anyway this point is moot since most people buying new BMWs nowadays don't even know how to open the hood, let alone care about the difference in NVH between a turbo 4 and a NA 6. The turbo 4s are faster and get better fuel economy which is all they could care about. More enthusiasts buy used BMWs which isn't what puts money in BMWs pockets.
08-22-2011, 07:09 PM
#45
Suzuka Master
That right there is why BMW is bringing 4 cylinder engines to the US. You can kick and scream all you want but the driving force behind all modern engine downsizing is our government. As the government asks for higher CAFE numbers manufacturers will have to go to smaller engines to reach these goals. Up intil 5 years ago BMW held the record for largest CAFE fine ever at 28 million dollars. They learned from that and are being more proactive toward meeting the future requirements. Anything manufacturers can do now to gain 1% here and 2% better fuel economy there, they do because of CAFE, not for the sake of spending millions of dollars in R and D just to save you 0.2 mpg.
Anyway this point is moot since most people buying new BMWs nowadays don't even know how to open the hood, let alone care about the difference in NVH between a turbo 4 and a NA 6. The turbo 4s are faster and get better fuel economy which is all they could care about. More enthusiasts buy used BMWs which isn't what puts money in BMWs pockets.
Anyway this point is moot since most people buying new BMWs nowadays don't even know how to open the hood, let alone care about the difference in NVH between a turbo 4 and a NA 6. The turbo 4s are faster and get better fuel economy which is all they could care about. More enthusiasts buy used BMWs which isn't what puts money in BMWs pockets.
The following users liked this post:
TRIUMPHT (08-23-2011)
08-22-2011, 07:11 PM
#46
Suzuka Master
Never liked the M3 moving to a V8 in the first place. I think a TT'd six is perfect and doesn't bloat the handling and weight balance of the car. Save the V8 for the larger M5.
08-23-2011, 12:07 AM
#48
Ok, also the Z3 before it got the I6.
The best 5 series was the E39, the best 7 series was the E38, and arguably the best 3 series was the E36. I learned to drive in a '96 BMW 328i, and still remember vividly how the car was simply an extension of my mind and hands. Man machine connection? Check. I love my TL but it has nothing on that car. On my Acura, the shifter is better, the engine every bit as smooth yet considerably more powerful, and it gives up nothing in fit and finish. However, I simply can't explain it, which is further proof of my point. This was also before the SUV's and all that crappy jazz. Back then, BMWs were pure. They're not now. 3,5,7,8. That's all they needed. I miss the good old days.
The best 5 series was the E39, the best 7 series was the E38, and arguably the best 3 series was the E36. I learned to drive in a '96 BMW 328i, and still remember vividly how the car was simply an extension of my mind and hands. Man machine connection? Check. I love my TL but it has nothing on that car. On my Acura, the shifter is better, the engine every bit as smooth yet considerably more powerful, and it gives up nothing in fit and finish. However, I simply can't explain it, which is further proof of my point. This was also before the SUV's and all that crappy jazz. Back then, BMWs were pure. They're not now. 3,5,7,8. That's all they needed. I miss the good old days.
08-23-2011, 12:41 AM
#49
Fahrvergnügen'd
^^ I own an E36 and while it's still a good car, I'd have to say it's not as good as you remember it being.
I would say that the E46 is the best 3-series ... The E36 is so spartan compared to even my '09 Jetta that it is more like my dad's '87 911 Targa.
The E46 is in a lot of ways a modern car but without the huge weight gain of the E90s.
I would say that the E46 is the best 3-series ... The E36 is so spartan compared to even my '09 Jetta that it is more like my dad's '87 911 Targa.
The E46 is in a lot of ways a modern car but without the huge weight gain of the E90s.
08-23-2011, 12:42 AM
#50
Ok, also the Z3 before it got the I6.
The best 5 series was the E39, the best 7 series was the E38, and arguably the best 3 series was the E36. I learned to drive in a '96 BMW 328i, and still remember vividly how the car was simply an extension of my mind and hands. Man machine connection? Check. I love my TL but it has nothing on that car. On my Acura, the shifter is better, the engine every bit as smooth yet considerably more powerful, and it gives up nothing in fit and finish. However, I simply can't explain it, which is further proof of my point. This was also before the SUV's and all that crappy jazz. Back then, BMWs were pure. They're not now. 3,5,7,8. That's all they needed. I miss the good old days.
The best 5 series was the E39, the best 7 series was the E38, and arguably the best 3 series was the E36. I learned to drive in a '96 BMW 328i, and still remember vividly how the car was simply an extension of my mind and hands. Man machine connection? Check. I love my TL but it has nothing on that car. On my Acura, the shifter is better, the engine every bit as smooth yet considerably more powerful, and it gives up nothing in fit and finish. However, I simply can't explain it, which is further proof of my point. This was also before the SUV's and all that crappy jazz. Back then, BMWs were pure. They're not now. 3,5,7,8. That's all they needed. I miss the good old days.
Vehicle safety gets stricter every year. Airbags and structural additions = more weight.
Cars get more and more options as time goes on. They also require the related computers, modules, motors, wiring, etc. to make them work = more weight.
Worst of all, you have consumers that have expectations. Expectations that the next 5-series will be roomier, more luxurious, more comfortable, etc. More weight. Oh, and lets not forget, they want it to be more powerful as well but they also want it to be more efficient (as does the government/CAFE) yet they don't want it to be much more expensive - preferably even cheaper, despite inflation.... something's gotta give.
People say the same about old Hondas. Small, lightweight, fuel efficient, high revving and cheap fun. But an early '90s Civic hatchback is a death trap compared to a modern day CR-Z and the EG hatchback probably had half or a third as many options and standard equipment. You could probably make a car like an E36, but hardly anyone would buy it.
Times change, get used to it....
Last edited by Costco; 08-23-2011 at 12:46 AM.
08-23-2011, 06:17 AM
#51
AZ Community Team
^ +1
08-23-2011, 08:28 AM
#52
Senior Moderator
That's the thing the only thing BMW changing is offering a 4 cylinder in the states for 5 series, BMW (IIRC) has always had a I4 option in the 5 series from the beginning for other markets. I believe this is the first time they've offered in the US.
Is that a bad thing? Probably not, however personally I would want their I6 in any BMW. I'm guessing the main reason BMW has traditionally offered a I6 and V8 for the 5 series in the US is the power prestige marketing in the US market.
That 35MPG hwy for the Corolla I saw for a 2011 Corolla base on their website.
One interesting side fact, BMW won their first (and only) Formula One World Driver Championship in 1983 with the M12/13 motor which was based on the stock block cast iron block M10 I4 used to power BMW road cars (1600, 2002, 320i,...).
The motor was designed by BMW's Paul Rosche, who was asked how it felt to beat Ferrari and Renault purpose built twin turbo V6 racing motors with a stock iron block based single turbo I4 motor, he added that most of the blocks used in 82 and 83 F1 engines were used motors from BMW company road cars since the heat and stress from operation helped anneal the iron so they warped less in racing. They later went to ovens to do that annealing but suffice to say some BMW employees unknowingly pre-drove motors that went on to win a WDC. BMW does not allow tours at the M-group facilities but I've seen some interior pics and there are a few Paul Rosche photo's on their walls, long retired he's highly respected at BMW especially the racing and M-group departments.
http://www.europeancarweb.com/lookba...l/viewall.html
http://www.gurneyflap.com/bmwturbof1engine.html
So to us on this website we may think BMW is mostly about I6, but the BMW purists know the true roots of their turbo I4 heritage.
Is that a bad thing? Probably not, however personally I would want their I6 in any BMW. I'm guessing the main reason BMW has traditionally offered a I6 and V8 for the 5 series in the US is the power prestige marketing in the US market.
That 35MPG hwy for the Corolla I saw for a 2011 Corolla base on their website.
One interesting side fact, BMW won their first (and only) Formula One World Driver Championship in 1983 with the M12/13 motor which was based on the stock block cast iron block M10 I4 used to power BMW road cars (1600, 2002, 320i,...).
The motor was designed by BMW's Paul Rosche, who was asked how it felt to beat Ferrari and Renault purpose built twin turbo V6 racing motors with a stock iron block based single turbo I4 motor, he added that most of the blocks used in 82 and 83 F1 engines were used motors from BMW company road cars since the heat and stress from operation helped anneal the iron so they warped less in racing. They later went to ovens to do that annealing but suffice to say some BMW employees unknowingly pre-drove motors that went on to win a WDC. BMW does not allow tours at the M-group facilities but I've seen some interior pics and there are a few Paul Rosche photo's on their walls, long retired he's highly respected at BMW especially the racing and M-group departments.
http://www.europeancarweb.com/lookba...l/viewall.html
http://www.gurneyflap.com/bmwturbof1engine.html
So to us on this website we may think BMW is mostly about I6, but the BMW purists know the true roots of their turbo I4 heritage.
08-23-2011, 10:56 AM
#53
^I read and hear that all the time and used to think that way too. But it's simply impossible for BMW to make cars the way they used to, for reasons already mentioned in this thread as well as others.
Vehicle safety gets stricter every year. Airbags and structural additions = more weight.
Cars get more and more options as time goes on. They also require the related computers, modules, motors, wiring, etc. to make them work = more weight.
Worst of all, you have consumers that have expectations. Expectations that the next 5-series will be roomier, more luxurious, more comfortable, etc. More weight. Oh, and lets not forget, they want it to be more powerful as well but they also want it to be more efficient (as does the government/CAFE) yet they don't want it to be much more expensive - preferably even cheaper, despite inflation.... something's gotta give.
People say the same about old Hondas. Small, lightweight, fuel efficient, high revving and cheap fun. But an early '90s Civic hatchback is a death trap compared to a modern day CR-Z and the EG hatchback probably had half or a third as many options and standard equipment. You could probably make a car like an E36, but hardly anyone would buy it.
Times change, get used to it....
Vehicle safety gets stricter every year. Airbags and structural additions = more weight.
Cars get more and more options as time goes on. They also require the related computers, modules, motors, wiring, etc. to make them work = more weight.
Worst of all, you have consumers that have expectations. Expectations that the next 5-series will be roomier, more luxurious, more comfortable, etc. More weight. Oh, and lets not forget, they want it to be more powerful as well but they also want it to be more efficient (as does the government/CAFE) yet they don't want it to be much more expensive - preferably even cheaper, despite inflation.... something's gotta give.
People say the same about old Hondas. Small, lightweight, fuel efficient, high revving and cheap fun. But an early '90s Civic hatchback is a death trap compared to a modern day CR-Z and the EG hatchback probably had half or a third as many options and standard equipment. You could probably make a car like an E36, but hardly anyone would buy it.
Times change, get used to it....
my deathtrap. The lack of weight actually makes the car feel safer to me. it goes where i tell it.
08-23-2011, 12:28 PM
#54
99 TL, 06 E350
Haven't there been 4 cylinder 5 Series in the past?
If they are doing this, then they must have made a breakthrough in the 4 cylinder technology that would be good enough for a 5 Series.
If they are doing this, then they must have made a breakthrough in the 4 cylinder technology that would be good enough for a 5 Series.
08-23-2011, 12:34 PM
#55
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,634
Received 2,328 Likes
on
1,308 Posts
Emissions emissions and MPG's.
This is what happens when government agencies dictate the market. While I'm all for pollution controls (actual pollutants) we are now seeing ridiculously high levels of fuel economy required for auto manufacturers. So now every car company is having to make tiny yet expensive cars that are lightweight with small engines. In the near future only the rich will be able to afford what used to be 'average'.
It's sad really and unnecessary.
This is what happens when government agencies dictate the market. While I'm all for pollution controls (actual pollutants) we are now seeing ridiculously high levels of fuel economy required for auto manufacturers. So now every car company is having to make tiny yet expensive cars that are lightweight with small engines. In the near future only the rich will be able to afford what used to be 'average'.
It's sad really and unnecessary.
The following users liked this post:
ttribe (08-23-2011)
08-23-2011, 12:44 PM
#56
Moderator
Emissions emissions and MPG's.
This is what happens when government agencies dictate the market. While I'm all for pollution controls (actual pollutants) we are now seeing ridiculously high levels of fuel economy required for auto manufacturers. So now every car company is having to make tiny yet expensive cars that are lightweight with small engines. In the near future only the rich will be able to afford what used to be 'average'.
It's sad really and unnecessary.
This is what happens when government agencies dictate the market. While I'm all for pollution controls (actual pollutants) we are now seeing ridiculously high levels of fuel economy required for auto manufacturers. So now every car company is having to make tiny yet expensive cars that are lightweight with small engines. In the near future only the rich will be able to afford what used to be 'average'.
It's sad really and unnecessary.
08-23-2011, 01:34 PM
#57
Senior Moderator
Lets just be happy they are able to adjust to the government demands without sacrificing power.
BMW is also looking into ways to limit weight gain on their next generation of cars.
BMW is also looking into ways to limit weight gain on their next generation of cars.
08-23-2011, 01:36 PM
#58
AZ Community Team
AFAIK, the 5-series has always had a 4 cylinder motor in other markets but this is the first 4 cylinder in the US market.
08-23-2011, 08:16 PM
#60
Banned
I drove the N20 in the X1 and focusing on the engine only, it feels like a piece of sh*t. It has the sound of a Civic. Gone the visceral engine note of Bimmers. Unless BMW offers a performance exhaust, this is a lost cause.
Nothing to do with the superb 6-cyl. I also drove in the same afternoon. The X3 N52 torque felt more 'immediate' even if numbers are saying otherwise.
Frankly, BMW should have been able to squeeze 240HP from a 6-cyl. running on regular. Therefore, fuel costs would have been not too far from the N20. As stated the 528i I6 already gets a spectacular 32mpg highway.
Start saving more for the 35i variant.
Nothing to do with the superb 6-cyl. I also drove in the same afternoon. The X3 N52 torque felt more 'immediate' even if numbers are saying otherwise.
Frankly, BMW should have been able to squeeze 240HP from a 6-cyl. running on regular. Therefore, fuel costs would have been not too far from the N20. As stated the 528i I6 already gets a spectacular 32mpg highway.
Start saving more for the 35i variant.
08-23-2011, 09:36 PM
#61
However, good points by several of you. Most won't care, and it is all about $, profit, and CAFE and all that bullshit. It's just sad.
I also just don't like 4 bangers. Not trying to sound snooty, but never have, never will. The RDX loaner I had (with that acclaimed, potent turbo I-4) I couldn't stand. It was plenty fast, but the idle about drove me up the wall. Also it just sounded dinky...Give me a NA 6 cylinder and I'll gladly sacrifice a MPG or two.
08-24-2011, 02:12 AM
#62
^that's how I feel about OHV V8s and some other engines 
430 HP and 30+ mpg highway (Corvette) anyone?
That said, a car is more than just it's powertrain.... 10 years from now, this sort of downsizing behavior will be commonplace.
430 HP and 30+ mpg highway (Corvette) anyone?That said, a car is more than just it's powertrain.... 10 years from now, this sort of downsizing behavior will be commonplace.
08-24-2011, 03:27 AM
#63
08-24-2011, 11:53 AM
#64
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
my 4 banger sounds pretty deep. 
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SidhuSaaB
3G TL Problems & Fixes
18
05-30-2020 12:40 AM
rp_guy
Member Cars for Sale
9
07-16-2017 07:33 AM
joflewbyu2
5G TLX (2015-2020)
139
10-08-2015 11:16 AM
