ThermonMermon

Thought this would be a fun topic. Im putting together a shortlist to get something in the near future, and need some inspiration. I am looking to convert my defunct garage into a barn like structure on the basis of storing a nice, clean lined, special car that i would drive on the weekends and keep long term. My wife finally gave me the nod to do this next year, but unfortunately, the car needs to be automatic, with a manual override (SMG/TripTronic, etc) for the deal to work. Which is not that big of an issue for me, to be honest.

Some parameters:
<15 years old, <40k miles
Potential future classic is a bonus
Convertible, targa, or large pano open air coupe
Weekend use only
Legitimately fun to drive
Can double as family emergency vehicle, which means it must have a rear seat for baby use, and it cant be a manual
Maintenance/Insurance isnt insane (i.e. no old AMG Mercedes, F355, etc), but doesnt need to be a Honda

Some cars that stood out:
-E46 330Ci ZHP Vert (kind of the top of the list)
-E46 M3 Vert SMG
-Porsche 996 Targa
-Merc E Class Coupe (eh...pillarless and pano). Not as fun to drive

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

00TL-P3.2

Probably a little longer for them to drop into your budget, but maybe a C43 Cabrio? Being newer, maintenance should be better than an older AMG (I imagine).
A CLK could also fit the bill, CLK 500 maybe, if you're wanting to steer away from AMGs.

BMW 3 & 911 were the first 2 that popped into my mind.

Never driven one, but the Volvo C70 was a nice looking car.

ThermonMermon

I have a feeling many will quickly defer to a 3 series or 911. The E46 and 996 are probably at the bottom of the depreciation curve, and would actually be a potential investment. Assuming I buy a decently low mileage one and baby it (which is the thought). 996s and 997s are starting to rise, and I could definitely see the E46 being a future classic in 10 or so years. But that may only apply to the Turbos and Ms, and not so much the likes of say a Targa S or 330Ci. Although the ZHP package helps.

As for the Mercs, i feel that they may not be as fun to drive, unless they are AMGs. And the AMG are questionable if i want to keep this for a while.

ThermonMermon

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

i would hardly call the rear of the 911 a back seat...

E46 would be my vote unless you can find a clean Volve C70... maybe put a turbo on it...

the other option is a Mustang or Camaro...

ThermonMermon

The 911 could accommodate a baby seat or child if there isnt someone in the passenger seat. Which is fine. The scenario would be - wife is out for the day on a weekend, I am at home with a toddler, and there is an emergency and I need to take her to the doctor. This would be a second car, not a third car. If we have two kids, then it's a different story though. We currently have an old A6 and an Outback. Since we both commute on foot, the A6 has not been driven in two months since we got the Outback, so I am realizing that we really have no use for it, other than keeping it alive for emergency situations....so we might as well trade it in for something fun to drive on the weekends.

I am leaning towards the E46 330 Ci Vert with hardtop. Need to do more research on incremental costs for an M3 in regards to price, and maintenance costs. The C70 is a bit old mannish / boring. Unless it is actually fun to drive.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

if it's just you and the kid, you can put the car seat in the passenger seat... just turn off the passenger airbag... my MR2 Spyder has a override for the airbag that you turn off with the key...

ThermonMermon

Is that okay in NJ? If so, do you know what ages? I thought they were stringent on rear facing through two years, etc.

SamDoe1

Audi A5/S5 cabriolet would also fit the bill. You could likely get a 2015 Mustang GT convertible with automatic for that price, the sound that Coyote motor makes is amazing...

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

two yrs is a guideline... my daughter was taller and by 1.5 yrs couldn't sit comfortably rear facing so we swapped her around... as long as they are in a car seat you should be ok... you can put the rear facing in the front, but you need to make sure the airbag is turned off... otherwise it will blow into the back of the child if there is an accident... front facing i just leave the airbag on since she is in the car seat anyway...

JMS71585

How about the Infiniti G37/Q60? My wife has had the G35, G37 hardtop convertible and now the refreshed Q60. I would opt for the older Q60 because you can get that VQ exhaust tone that sounds good. The older g37 models had a hardtop convertible option. The Q60s come with a sunroof and a backseat. Maintenance won't be that bad and the car comes from a reliable platform. I was going to recommend a 370z but there is no backseat.

ThermonMermon

to provide a bit more color -

we are trying come to terms with a decent investment to convert a very old detached garage into a barn for car storage, among other things, but need the right car to justify it. for some reason, I really want to build it around a showcase car that holds dear in my heart. Cars that i had diecasts of growing up....C2 Vette, F355, E46, NSX, 911, Jag E-Type are cars the come to mind. The thought is to get something that i want to wax polish and drool over for the next 10+ years, but still get use out of it. And if that's the case, it seems like the smart thing to do is circle cars that are candidates of increasing in value, but within reach today, pricewise. The barn isnt going to be connected to our driveway given where it is situated. I am going to be crawling over the grass for summer sunday drives. looking for an eventful experience with a special car. timeless design, etc.

at this point, it sounds like the E46 and 911 makes sense. the E30 M3s are already on the incline and moving up quickly.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Had a 911 Cabrio and loved it. My only fear was that motor blowng up on me. Even with a newer motor and all of the seal upgrades done, it scared me. Part of the reason I sold it.

Similar for the E46. LOTS of preventative maintenance needs to be done. Luckily the one I got had most of it taken care of. Now I just run an oil analysis after oil changes to be sure the bearings are good and drive it. Had most of the big maintenance things not been tended to before I bought it the E46 would have definitely been very expensive in the maintenance department.

That said, the SMG in the E46 worries me which is why I went with a 6-speed. If you go that route you'll need to make sure not only the motor is maintained, but the gearbox as well.

I do like the A5/S5 suggestion though... definitely something to consider but not a timeless classic.

SamDoe1

If you can do without a back seat then the S2000 is a great candidate for a relatively inexpensive car that's pretty special and increasing in value.

ThermonMermon

JuniorB,

In regards to the E46, are you speaking to the M or the series in general? Do you think I need to look out for similar maintenance items on the non M E46 (330Ci auto vert)?

ttribe

More the M than the 330Ci. I bought my son a 2001 325Ci convertible a couple of years ago and it's not bad on maintenance and he has more than 150k miles on it.

Why not look at an E93 335i?

ThermonMermon

Something about the looks of the E46...just feels a bit more timeless, analog...and was a staple car for my generation growing up

ttribe

Yep. They're good looking cars. Here's my son's...picked it up for $4,200:

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, sorry, definitely the M as that is what I have experience with

ttribe

For the record, I'd pretty much avoid anything with an SMG...I had SMG II on my M5 and that's a maintenance nightmare waiting to happen.

00TL-P3.2

The E46 is a great design, but I think I'd look for an E93 335 if I were in a similar position.

TacoBello

What about a mustang convertible?

Or a Lexus SC430, if you don't mind the looks.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

ThermonMermon

wackjum

WTF... How did I end up posting in a Lamborghini thread?

Hopefully it works this time:

I have a 996 turbo cabrio. Mine is a 6 spd but they do come in tiptronic. Getting a turbo sidesteps some of the bigger issues with the NA 996 engines. I would avoid BMW SMG transmission cars. I haven't owned one personally but I know friends with them and they've been pretty terrible. I don't know if the E46 M3 or 996 Turbo will exactly appreciate in value. But I expect them to hold their current values or at least depreciate very slowly from here.

If you're wanting a "show piece" or a really unique driving experience, the 911 hits on all points because it is instantly recognizable and the RR engine layout gives the car its own unique feel. Something to consider in the 996 turbo world is that the cabrio is not in much demand, and neither are tiptronics. People want the 6 speed coupe and those would be the ones I would expect to appreciate in value if it happens.

The 996 turbo is not super-expensive to keep running, but it does have its own issues. Also it has a soft top roof, which makes it less useful as a general vehicle.

If I were to simplify my life, I'd probably go for a Lexus SC430 or G37 convertible. But the SC has nearly useless backseats if that's important.

ThermonMermon

ThermonMermon

ThermonMermon

ThermonMermon

AnthraciteAspec

iTrader: (6)

My old man picked up one of these about a year ago and loves it.

Jaguar XKR

I wouldn't recommend it for a daily but for a weekend car it is awesome. I have driven it and it is a ton of fun.

Looks exotic, sounds amazing and has 500hp for under 30k.

Just throwing out another option for you, I like the 911 idea as well if you can find a nice one for under 30k.

1StGenCL

I was debating on an S5 vert and while fun to drive, wasn't as fun at a 335 IMO. I also couldn't find an S5 with a manual so that could have been some of the fun factor of the 335.

BMW does look pretty timeless and the hardtop vert seems to have very few issues where the Audi top looked like it was going to wear rather quickly so get the M

SamDoe1

Sorry, little late to the E46 party but they will all have their share of issues/faults even on the non-M models. The cooling system is always on the brink of disaster, the front suspension eats bushings like candy, the window regulators fail all the time, the crank case vent system tends to clog up and then burn oil, etc... The difference is that the parts for the non-M will be cheaper than the M. Also, general upkeep is cheaper on the non-M as they don't use some $9/qt unicorn blood for oil and some other basic items are cheaper too (brakes being the big one). I had one for several years, let me know if you have questions.

ThermonMermon

Sounds like fun. Not sure if I am going to come to my senses and back out. Still have time. Basically looking to identify a short list of cars that could get me motivated enough to start working with contractors for this garage/barn conversion towards the end of the year. Even though I would only be putting a few thousand miles a year, the M3 will still be 12+ years old. Which means a trip to the mechanic may be a frequent as the number of times I drive. That would be super frustrating.

Interestingly enough, there are a ton of youtube videos comparing the E46 M3 to the E92 335. It sounds like the general verdict is that the handling and performance is not terribly far off, and the trade off is the exhaust/looks vs maintenance costs. E92 335, as others mentioned, sounds way more practical, but IDK. It's comparing what I think is a future classic M model to a bangled 3-series. Hmmmm....

00TL-P3.2

Not a 'classic' but what about a Cooper Cabrio, likely a lot cheaper than the alternatives, but not as timeless & less power?

ThermonMermon

Helll no

Maybe an older four seater Aston vert....

SamDoe1

Don't get me wrong, the E46 M3 is not an unreliable POS provided you keep up with the maintenance. It's fairly easy to DIY almost anything, the only downside is that the parts are expensive. The upside is that you can find generic OEM parts for much cheaper than BMW parts these days. A good condition, well maintained, E46 M3 is a stellar car and I wouldn't buy an E92 335 over it in any possible scenario (other than cost).

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^ This.

It really is an amazing car and I'm having a blast with it. But yes, like SamDoe said, you gotta pay to play. That will really be the case with any 15+-year-old German car though. It doesn't mean expensive stuff will certainly go wrong, but you need to be ready for it and you need to be ready for higher maintenance costs. And yeah, the M3 uses real unicorn blood for the oil changes. As an extra car for me, I'm not changing the oil a lot, so I don't mind. But you'll need to factor that in depending on the mileage you'll be putting on the car.

If you're OK with all of that then definitely look at the M3. The verts are less expensive as they are not as desired as the coupes... and SMG will also generally lower the price a bit as the 6-speeds seem to be the hotter item. Prices are holding steady on these but with the warmer weather I have seen them creep up a bit, but that's pretty standard with the selling cycle. If you can wait until late summer/fall you'll likely save a little bit... but again, that holds true for all summer/fun cars.

ThermonMermon

thanks, guys. We would only be putting a few thousand miles a year. If this car - I am definitely decided on the SMG, but am going a bit back and forth on the coupe vs vert (i would be buying a hardtop if a vert). For a fast car, the coupe seems to be like a safer option for both myself, and a child (in rare situations). Given the 2000s style greenhouse with thin pillars with sunroof, the coupe may make due. I may find myself being uncomfortable doing spirited driving in a top-less car. If this were a more grounded 330, I probably stick with the vert however. The only car that really checks my boxes for what I am looking for is a 996 Targa 4s. Full glass greenhouse, with operable roof, and added security for spirited driving.

JB - What is your spec? Do you mind sharing some of the preventative maintenance / repair items you have done with the rough costs? (if youre comfortable sharing)

SamDoe1

If you're going to keep the hard top on all the time anyway, I'd get the coupe. It's lighter, stiffer, and has no cowl shake. I also just like the look of the coupe over the vert. Any car that isn't initially designed to be a convertible but turned into one never looks quite right to me. The coupe will also hold value better than the vert so there's that.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Mine is a 2003 Coupe, 6-speed. ~135k miles. The previous owner (SaaBaaDoo on here) did a lot of the maintenance himself. He may be able to give you a better number, but from the documentation I have it was a few thousand dollars worth of maintenance. I am about to put a couple thousand more into it... mainly for a detailed sub-frame inspection to ensure there is no cracking (visual has been good, but going to bite the bullet and do a full inspection). Hopefully that is good news, otherwise, it's another $1k or so to properly support everything... more if there's real damage hiding. After that, it's the preventative stuff... sending the oil in for analysis after every oil change to make sure the bearings are good, etc. I'm lucky that I have a great Euro shop locally... and not only that, but they sponsor a car show/club that my buddy and I run, so he's on the ball.

But I can tell you I love the coupe. We did a mountain trip a few weekends ago and the car was just effortless up there. Felt amazing. Made me fall in love with the car more than I already am. I agree with SamDoe in that the car was designed as a coupe, and it pays off in dividends. We rolled down the windows and opened the sunroof and had a blast. It wasn't a drop-top, but it was still great to have the sun beating through the sunroof on our face and the breeze flowing. If I want a true convertible experience I'll just take the Stang. But the M3 was awesome and something I can see holding onto for a while.




I don't buy cars as investments, but I like to have cars that may not depreciate as much as the others since I don't put a ton of miles on them individually (FJ Cruiser, Tundra, M3, Vagon, etc) so the E46 M3 ticks a lot of boxes...