Anybody ever try defensive driving twice in one year?
04-30-2009, 06:05 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Anybody ever try defensive driving twice in one year?
I've gotten many many tickets in my day. I've been on deferred in 3 cities at once. One thing I haven't tried is doin defensive driving for more then one ticket.
I just finished def driv for a ticket yesterday, but then I got a ticket today!! Since my state record hasn't updated with the def driving completion yet, maybe I could order another copy and use it for the new ticket? Anyone done it?
No need to reply if your answer is "no", or "you shouldn't do that", etc
I just finished def driv for a ticket yesterday, but then I got a ticket today!! Since my state record hasn't updated with the def driving completion yet, maybe I could order another copy and use it for the new ticket? Anyone done it?
No need to reply if your answer is "no", or "you shouldn't do that", etc
04-30-2009, 06:24 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
True true..... but my theory is that the reason they have you mail off for your driving record to give to them (as proof you haven't taken it in a year) is because that is the ONLY WAY they will know. Courts have waaay too much paperwork to deal with already. If they could just pull it up on their computer, they wouldn't make you do that.
Plus, when you get on deferred, they make you sign a piece of paper "swearing" that you are not on deferred in any other city because they don't check! Its the honor system. Kinda like when you apply for health insurance and they ask you all about your family history of diseases/etc so they can jack up your rates!
Plus, when you get on deferred, they make you sign a piece of paper "swearing" that you are not on deferred in any other city because they don't check! Its the honor system. Kinda like when you apply for health insurance and they ask you all about your family history of diseases/etc so they can jack up your rates!
Hahahaha, they need to take your license.
04-30-2009, 07:14 PM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
Really? Because I really shouldn't be driving right? I literally speed everywhere (except school zones, residential areas, etc)
Years driving: 13
Tickets: 42 (no I'm not lying)
My fault accidents: 3
(2 parking lot fender benders and 1 tree smasher in the ice)
You could say speed was a factor in the ice wreck although I was driving UNDER the limit
I figure you were probably kidding so I'm not tryin to flame you. I just believe that traffic tickets are written primarily for revenue, and that safety has VERY little to do with it. I'm not talking about goin 130 down the highway of course.
Every year I take defensive driving, and I love when the top 5 causes of accidents flashes on the screen. Speed is #1 with an *asterisk next to it (*driving under the speed limit). Good stuff.
Years driving: 13
Tickets: 42 (no I'm not lying)
My fault accidents: 3
(2 parking lot fender benders and 1 tree smasher in the ice)
You could say speed was a factor in the ice wreck although I was driving UNDER the limit
I figure you were probably kidding so I'm not tryin to flame you. I just believe that traffic tickets are written primarily for revenue, and that safety has VERY little to do with it. I'm not talking about goin 130 down the highway of course.
Every year I take defensive driving, and I love when the top 5 causes of accidents flashes on the screen. Speed is #1 with an *asterisk next to it (*driving under the speed limit). Good stuff.
04-30-2009, 07:33 PM
#7
I have dead hookers in
5 killed when speeding car crashes into tree near Williams
08:57 AM MST on Wednesday, September 12, 2007
WILLIAMS, Ariz. (AP) -- People who live in the small northern Arizona town of Williams are mourning following a traffic accident that claimed the lives of four young residents, as well as that of a young Californian.
The five died Monday night when their car ran off a road on the outskirts of town and slammed into a tree.
The lone survivor was Jennifer Miller, who police say suffered minor injuries. Friends say the group had been out celebrating her 16th birthday.
Killed were 20-year-old Matthew Dent, who was the driver; 15-year-old Elena Rivera; 16-year-old Prescott McDaniel; and 21-year-old Jesse Buchmoyer -- all of Williams -- and 18-year-old Matthew Small of Claremont, California.
Williams Police Chief Herman Nixon says the car was traveling "in great excess" of the 40 mph speed limit in the area. None of the passengers are thought to have been wearing seat belts.
© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.
Just slow down and you dont have to worry about it in all seriousness. Whenever you speed just ask yourself if its worth the possibility of the story above.
08:57 AM MST on Wednesday, September 12, 2007
WILLIAMS, Ariz. (AP) -- People who live in the small northern Arizona town of Williams are mourning following a traffic accident that claimed the lives of four young residents, as well as that of a young Californian.
The five died Monday night when their car ran off a road on the outskirts of town and slammed into a tree.
The lone survivor was Jennifer Miller, who police say suffered minor injuries. Friends say the group had been out celebrating her 16th birthday.
Killed were 20-year-old Matthew Dent, who was the driver; 15-year-old Elena Rivera; 16-year-old Prescott McDaniel; and 21-year-old Jesse Buchmoyer -- all of Williams -- and 18-year-old Matthew Small of Claremont, California.
Williams Police Chief Herman Nixon says the car was traveling "in great excess" of the 40 mph speed limit in the area. None of the passengers are thought to have been wearing seat belts.
© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.
Just slow down and you dont have to worry about it in all seriousness. Whenever you speed just ask yourself if its worth the possibility of the story above.
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04-30-2009, 07:39 PM
#8
65 year olds have more years of experience than you do does that mean they should be driving? I used to have a 12 second 5.0 that was my dd, I gave it up cuz I knew I would do something that I would regret sooner or later 4 yrs with it and sold it. Yes speed is an amazing adrenaline rush but that needs to be keeped in a controled environment, your driving record so thats up to you but but you sound like a maniac on the road lol.
to drive like that or else you get 
, which turns into 
04-30-2009, 09:18 PM
#10
back on topic: Just because they make you send away for paper proof to use at school, (and get a few dollars for it right?) does NOT mean the central computer doesnt know about you already~
Remember the Blues Brothers- the cops have SCMOD in the car-
State County Municipal Offender Database-
and Elwoods rap sheet was right there for them...
Since you swear-take oath about not having attended in a year, thats probably reason to revoke your license when they find out you lied...and they will
Kind of like getting fired for lying on an job application...not smart to mess with Big Brother
Remember the Blues Brothers- the cops have SCMOD in the car-
State County Municipal Offender Database-
and Elwoods rap sheet was right there for them...
Since you swear-take oath about not having attended in a year, thats probably reason to revoke your license when they find out you lied...and they will
Kind of like getting fired for lying on an job application...not smart to mess with Big Brother
04-30-2009, 09:45 PM
#11
May I suggest everyone-
regardless if you commute, are the husband/wife who drives it in town only and never plan to run the car hard, or you already think you the baddest driver around...
PLEASE please please! attend a track day,- high performance driving school- at a local roadrace track
Most run in the $200-$300 range for a full day, several sessions on track in your car- with a Pro race driver in your passenger seat giving instant feedback and correction.
Helping you get smoother first, thats critical
then learning car control- intentional and unintentional drifting and power slides, learning where the tires are at every moment so you can drift wide under power to the exit and just kiss the berm..its a great feeling when you get the little `dirt kicked up noise` as you master the late apex
You can choose the type of lessons you want, They dont make you go faster than you are comfortable with--- or they are~, you run with others in the same experience and speed group so really fast drivers wont be out there flying past you every corner, you run single file to start- 10-15 seconds between each car...you have about 1-2 second between cars on the freeway at speed and dont even think what will happen if they brake,,or the car 5 cars ahead does
Smoothness, situational awareness, when to brake- when to use SS and proper downshift,,,and never exceeding 70, if thats what you are comfortable with
Or
If you want the normal faster speed lessons, you still get all the training in smooth-entry-apex-exiting-cornering--all the basics, AND you get to run full throttle to the turns braking point, with max effort braking, rocket off the turns and down the straight..90-110mph, then on the brakes for turn 1 and start the next lap
20 minute sessions of 3-4 minute lap times will leave you sweating and wondering how you survived this many years without this training,,your driving now forever changed.
Its WAY cheaper than any ticket,, let alone one with `reckless driving` on it.
In Ca they throw that on in construction and known deadly roads, exceed 55 and its double points and double fine- 65 in 55 cost you 500++
Be caught going the average 70 in that same `special 55 zone` and its an additional 2500$$$ for reckless!! plus big points,,, and not the good kind
At least they have radar speedo checks stands before the cop with a radar on the special road I have to travel. Makes you remember to watch closely and dont speed
on the streets
On the track- join me- lets have some laps in relative safety of 35 foot wide road you get to use every inch of, with no opposite direction traffic,..I could go on and on- track days are fun and addictive- but still a cheaper hobby than other things
Anyone can go fast by pushing the pedal on the street, and all due respect to drag racers for their reaction times and shifting, you come do the big track and watch you car control in slippery lane situations improve
Going fast for seconds or a minute or 2 is fun,, but doesnt compare to putting a car- the TL- through its paces with full input of throttle brakes and steering over and over, each lap trying to be later brake and faster exit speed- a personal challenge
It makes the heart pump!
regardless if you commute, are the husband/wife who drives it in town only and never plan to run the car hard, or you already think you the baddest driver around...
PLEASE please please! attend a track day,- high performance driving school- at a local roadrace track
Most run in the $200-$300 range for a full day, several sessions on track in your car- with a Pro race driver in your passenger seat giving instant feedback and correction.
Helping you get smoother first, thats critical
then learning car control- intentional and unintentional drifting and power slides, learning where the tires are at every moment so you can drift wide under power to the exit and just kiss the berm..its a great feeling when you get the little `dirt kicked up noise` as you master the late apex
You can choose the type of lessons you want, They dont make you go faster than you are comfortable with--- or they are~, you run with others in the same experience and speed group so really fast drivers wont be out there flying past you every corner, you run single file to start- 10-15 seconds between each car...you have about 1-2 second between cars on the freeway at speed and dont even think what will happen if they brake,,or the car 5 cars ahead does
Smoothness, situational awareness, when to brake- when to use SS and proper downshift,,,and never exceeding 70, if thats what you are comfortable with
Or
If you want the normal faster speed lessons, you still get all the training in smooth-entry-apex-exiting-cornering--all the basics, AND you get to run full throttle to the turns braking point, with max effort braking, rocket off the turns and down the straight..90-110mph, then on the brakes for turn 1 and start the next lap
20 minute sessions of 3-4 minute lap times will leave you sweating and wondering how you survived this many years without this training,,your driving now forever changed.
Its WAY cheaper than any ticket,, let alone one with `reckless driving` on it.
In Ca they throw that on in construction and known deadly roads, exceed 55 and its double points and double fine- 65 in 55 cost you 500++
Be caught going the average 70 in that same `special 55 zone` and its an additional 2500$$$ for reckless!! plus big points,,, and not the good kind
At least they have radar speedo checks stands before the cop with a radar on the special road I have to travel. Makes you remember to watch closely and dont speed
on the streets
On the track- join me- lets have some laps in relative safety of 35 foot wide road you get to use every inch of, with no opposite direction traffic,..I could go on and on- track days are fun and addictive- but still a cheaper hobby than other things
Anyone can go fast by pushing the pedal on the street, and all due respect to drag racers for their reaction times and shifting, you come do the big track and watch you car control in slippery lane situations improve
Going fast for seconds or a minute or 2 is fun,, but doesnt compare to putting a car- the TL- through its paces with full input of throttle brakes and steering over and over, each lap trying to be later brake and faster exit speed- a personal challenge
It makes the heart pump!
Last edited by 01tl4tl; 04-30-2009 at 09:48 PM.
05-01-2009, 12:19 PM
#12
Tom
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
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Base on my understanding, in TX, you have only 1 defensive driving class per year. You don't have to pay the ticket but the court fee, the class and misc stuffs.
The benefit of attend the class is to avoid the driving record (for insurance purpose).
On the 2nd ticket within a year. You HAVE to pay the ticket cost and you cannot take the class again. I remembered when I was in that class (2005), the 1st question instructor asked was "Did anyone here already take this class within a year?" The trick question is already there.
I'm really sorry I couldn't help you much, but what I have heart from my co. worker is you can go to the court and asking the judge for a probation (usually 6 Months) so the speed ticket will not "written" into your record. Check it out first, because you still pay for the court fee too.
Just try to slow down when driving, you will see a lot of money saving there... and this is the win win over those cops. I'd rather invest those money to my car than cop's car!
The benefit of attend the class is to avoid the driving record (for insurance purpose).
On the 2nd ticket within a year. You HAVE to pay the ticket cost and you cannot take the class again. I remembered when I was in that class (2005), the 1st question instructor asked was "Did anyone here already take this class within a year?" The trick question is already there.
I'm really sorry I couldn't help you much, but what I have heart from my co. worker is you can go to the court and asking the judge for a probation (usually 6 Months) so the speed ticket will not "written" into your record. Check it out first, because you still pay for the court fee too.
Just try to slow down when driving, you will see a lot of money saving there... and this is the win win over those cops. I'd rather invest those money to my car than cop's car!
05-01-2009, 02:41 PM
#16
Drifting
I took one of the DD courses last year to try and avoid points on my record for a high speeding ticket that I deserved that I got while being an idiot. It did nothing, I got the points, and paid money for nothing. The class is a waste of a day and I wouldn't recommend it. Just take your punishment, you know you deserve it and LEARN FROM IT.
05-01-2009, 03:45 PM
#17
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Age: 47
Posts: 17,085
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With the DDC courses, you only benefit once every 3 years. There is also a savings in your insurance premiums. I have it on my license not because of points (I don't have any), but I save a bit off my insurance. It pays for itself a few times over.
05-01-2009, 04:23 PM
#18
Instructor
Thread Starter
Wow lots of judgemental posts here.... man I didn't know everyone was so anti-speeding on a website full of tuners. 
I like the track idea. (01tl4tl) I'm glad your opinion includes a ton of useful information to go along with it, and I always appreciate the time you put into your posts. I would like to do one of those sometime in the near future. How nice would that be if they made everyone take one instead of that lame defensive driving video? Haha. Better yet, add that to driver's ed (could raise the price a bit) and see how many fewer accidents we see with teenagers?
Oh yea and whoever asked: I pay $495 every six months for a big mack daddy full coverage insurance plan that includes some aftermarket coverage. That little money stack with the big eyes never follows me! My buddy works in insurance and has been buggin me to switch to him. He ran my record the other day and said its clean goin back 5 years.
I like the track idea. (01tl4tl) I'm glad your opinion includes a ton of useful information to go along with it, and I always appreciate the time you put into your posts. I would like to do one of those sometime in the near future. How nice would that be if they made everyone take one instead of that lame defensive driving video? Haha. Better yet, add that to driver's ed (could raise the price a bit) and see how many fewer accidents we see with teenagers?
Oh yea and whoever asked: I pay $495 every six months for a big mack daddy full coverage insurance plan that includes some aftermarket coverage. That little money stack with the big eyes never follows me! My buddy works in insurance and has been buggin me to switch to him. He ran my record the other day and said its clean goin back 5 years.
Last edited by Sust Man; 05-01-2009 at 04:25 PM.
05-01-2009, 05:48 PM
#20
The sizzle in the Steak
Too bad they won't take the op's license away for good.
05-01-2009, 06:50 PM
#21
I'm not going to be one of those hipocrites in this thread that offer advice to others meanwhile we all speed. Its just the less fortunate ones get caught. im. What I want to know is god dam 42 tickets.. please tell me you have every single radar and laser detector/deterrent available? ANd what is you age? LoL.
I'm just like you, I speed about 80% of the time, but I'm not doing 120 mph and shit.. but my cruising speed is always at like 80mph.
I'm just like you, I speed about 80% of the time, but I'm not doing 120 mph and shit.. but my cruising speed is always at like 80mph.
05-01-2009, 08:10 PM
#22
Senior Moderator
I won't lie, either, my freeway cruising speed is 70-75 around town except in heavy traffic, 80-85 in interurban driving. In the city (off the freeway), I drive at most 5 above the limit, which is the normal flow of traffic here. I don't get many tickets because
a) In my town, I know where the speed traps are along my route to work and drive accordingly.
b) V1 for all other driving situations, especially when traveling. The arrows don't lie.
c) I drive carefully, having taken a couple of courses on defensive driving myself (not for tickets though, heh).
My last speeding ticket was four years ago. In my 20 years of driving, I've had four speeding tickets.
42 tickets seems quite excessive, though.
a) In my town, I know where the speed traps are along my route to work and drive accordingly.
b) V1 for all other driving situations, especially when traveling. The arrows don't lie.
c) I drive carefully, having taken a couple of courses on defensive driving myself (not for tickets though, heh).
My last speeding ticket was four years ago. In my 20 years of driving, I've had four speeding tickets.
42 tickets seems quite excessive, though.
05-02-2009, 01:48 AM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
Only 2 or 3 tickets have ever been on my record and that was more than 5 years ago. The only reason they went on was due to getting more than one in a particular city while on deferred (probation), or more than one citation on the same ticket.
This may not work in every area of the US, but it works in Texas. I have kept EVERY ticket or documentation (payment receipts, lawyer documents, etc) in my file cabinet since I started driving. That is the only reason I know the exact #.
05-02-2009, 02:00 AM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'm not going to be one of those hipocrites in this thread that offer advice to others meanwhile we all speed. Its just the less fortunate ones get caught. im. What I want to know is god dam 42 tickets.. please tell me you have every single radar and laser detector/deterrent available? ANd what is you age? LoL.
I'm just like you, I speed about 80% of the time, but I'm not doing 120 mph and shit.. but my cruising speed is always at like 80mph.
I'm just like you, I speed about 80% of the time, but I'm not doing 120 mph and shit.. but my cruising speed is always at like 80mph.
I have an escort 8500 x50. Although it is the bomb diggity, it does not help when a cop uses instant on radar, laser, estimates your speed and says he clocked you (this happens alot), etc. I think I will bite the bullet and get a laser defuser.
Oh, and I'm 29.
05-02-2009, 03:09 AM
#26
Stage 1 Audi S5
FUCK YOU dude. Everyone is thinking it but no one wants to out right say it. 42 tickets is unbelievable and I don't know how they havent pulled your license. Yes, I am sure we all have sped but I pretty much guarantee no one has that many tickets indicating that you deserve them not that we all some how got lucky. The fact that most people on here have a ticket or two means you are a complete asshole, slow down.
Oh, there is no way you have that may tickets and pay under 1k for insurance a year, something doesn't add up
Oh, there is no way you have that may tickets and pay under 1k for insurance a year, something doesn't add up
05-02-2009, 04:30 AM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
Oh man this is gonna be a long one..... Ok here goes. This is gonna be my "speeding ticket / speed limit rant" post. I feel so strongly about this that I will devote some time to this one.
Did you put much thought into that before you posted it? So I deserve to lose my license for good, right? I don't bother you on the forum OR the road. For all you know, I could drive 300,000 miles a year and all of my tickets could be for 7 mph over.
If you are worried about me being a danger to you on the road, then don't be. I am next to your car for maybe a few seconds before I am GONE. Check your mirrors before you change lanes and you are GOLDEN. Then again, I anticipate someone's lack of attention to mirrors and am constantly surveying my options. If they change lanes in front of me or do something else dumb. I am not cruising next to you on my cell phone or following behind you while slappin my kids for half of your commute to work. Oh yea, and stay out of the left lane on the highway unless you are passing someone. This could help your worries.
There isn't ONE PERSON on this site that has NEVER broken the speed limit or at least accelerated faster than the law allows at one point. Why is that ok? Some people are perfectly content with driving the speed limit. Thats fine. But don't sit there and point the finger at me just because "flaws" in the legal system do not apply to you, or more laxity in speed laws would not benefit you.
Speed limits are put in place for safety most of the time. Sometimes a road may have a certain speed limit for emissions puposes. Some person or persons sitting behind a desk looks on paper and decides for EVERYONE what his idea of a "safe" speed would be for a particular road.
Heres a fun example for you: The Dallas North Tollway is like the freakin autobahn of Texas. The speed limit is 55 all the way, yet even COPS go 70 - 80 ALL THE TIME (and I do mean all). This highway is built for speed. The entire stretch has bright lights, few curves, perfectly smooth pavement, and elevation changes which are few and shallow. State troopers love to chill on the shoulder of this highway (because of its ridiculously low speed limit most likely). Luckily, the shoulder is really the only place they CAN sit. No real hiding spots. Driving 55 is SAFE, but 5 or 10 over this threshold is abruptly not, and you owe 2-300 dollars now. Pay up.
According to most laws, I should have had my license revoked a looooong time ago. This would have been to keep me and everyone else safer, right? 13 years and 43 tickets later, I'm still driving. Virtually accident free! Hmmm.... maybe it is less cut and dry then 55 is safe, 60 is unsafe. 2 tickets on your record and you're still a safe driver, but 3 tickets in a year and you are not and should hence lose your license. Although, some cities would have mad a LOT LESS money from me if they had not made it so easy to get deferred.
Based on statistics, I should be uninsurable. Hell, they even check your CREDIT now because increased credit risk goes hand in hand with increased accident risk (supposedly). But obviously, no rule or law can be a perfect blanket generalization for every person/driver.
Simply getting in your car and driving means you are at a decent chance of being involved in an accident. People wreck because they don't pay attention, drink and drive, or lack the necessary motor skills to operate a motor vehicle safely.
Think about most accident scenarios. Think about ANY sort of rear end accident for example, be it on the highway at 70, a stoplight goin 10, etc. Was it really the SPEED that caused the accident? Or was it the DRIVER NOT PAYING ATTENTION?? Think about it. If I see a threat and can hit the brakes and stop before hitting something, was I driving too fast? God gave me this amazing ability to be able to adjust my speed based on how far ahead I can see, road conditions, my reaction time, etc. As long as I am focused, they work quite well.
You want to look at "accident statistics"? The govt would like to sell you on this idea of speeding causing the bulk of accidents. Public acceptance of speeding tickets would be MUCH lower if people knew the real statistics of speed related accidents, and not the propaganda and skewed statistics that most people are shown. The words "speed related " opens up a whole can of statistical manipulating possibilities. Statistics can easily be manipulated in most any situation, and I could go into whole other rant about this.
My ability to safely drive over the speed limit is due to my individuality. One example is that I have ADD. I can not multitask very well, especially in the car. I daydream all of the time. I will be talking to someone and realize during a convo that I did not hear the last 30 seconds of chatter because my mind wanders. When I drive fast, I PAY ATTENTION like I'm disarming a bomb. I am in sort of a "tunnel vision" with the road if you will. I take driving VERY SERIOUSLY and am very methodical/anal about everything I do behind the wheel. When I try to go the speed limit, I am no longer INVOLVED in the driving experience (I love driving btw). I become somewhat of a passenger. I'm on auto pilot. I'm along for the ride. I start to notice more of the buildings, scenery, etc. Nearly 100% of the time I try to change into an occupied lane, or make an attention related mistake I am in this "speed limit" mode. When I am in "speed mode", this NEVER happens.
Is ADD my excuse that should allow me to speed? No. It is merely part of my individuality that makes my particular driving style the safest for me and others around me. When and if I DO cause an accident, it will certainly cause more damage to all solid matter involved, but the likelyhood of it happening at higher speeds for ME is much less. You are in more danger of being injured by me when I am sticking with the speed limit.
Doing something repeatedly builds skill. Successfully doing something repeatedly builds skill and confidence. I speed often. I get better at cutting through traffic safely and efficiently every day. Most people just simply don't speed all the time. I have more "experience" at this if you will. "Oh but a 75 year old geriatric has more experience, right?" NOT the same thing. Their sensory perception and motor function are much less than a 25 year old.
What is my solution? My brother thinks they should do more comprehensive driving assessments when you get a license, and the more skilled would be allowed higher maximum speeds. This is a pretty good suggestion, but the govt has nothing to GAIN by allowing some people to drive faster. It would make the public happier, but the logistics and cost of such a program would not be worth the result.
When a few people SUCK at driving, it is much easier to make a blanket law that puts a restriciton on EVERY PERSON. Just like why airports have to pat down some elderly person sometimes because a few guys decided to run some planes into a building. It would be too hard (and politically incorrect) to narrow down or customize the process to certain more likely suspects.
Below is some excellent reading on the subject for some of the doubters. This stuff may not be the last word, but they are pretty enlightening none the less. I highly suggest some of you take a gander before writing more negative posts.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2194/oindex.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irre0.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2194/splinks.htm
Some notable excerpts for those low on time:
It would be premature to draw any firm conclusions since the research is still underway. However, the findings to date suggest that, on the average, current speed limits are set too low to be accepted as reasonable by the vast majority of drivers. Only about 1 in 10 speed zones has better than 50-percent compliance. The posted speeds make technical violators out of motorists driving at reasonable and safe speeds.
For the traffic law system to minimize accident risk, then speed limits need to be properly set to define maximum safe speed. Our studies show that most speed zones are posted 8 to 12 mph below the prevailing travel speed and 15 mph or more below the maximum safe speed. Increasing speed limits to more realistic levels will not result in higher speeds but would increase voluntary compliance and target enforcement at the occasional violator and high-risk driver.
One way for restoring the informational value of speed limits requires that we do a better job of engineering speed limits. Hopefully, the results of this research will provide engineers with the knowledge and tools needed to set maximum safe speed limits that are defensible and accepted by the public and the courts.
......in general people have little respect for speed limits when they feel they have been set well below a reasonable safe speed.
.....the evidence to support the argument that speed by itself is a cause of accidents is extremely scarce
US DOT Report Confirms Speed Not Major Accident Cause
US Department of Transportation study finds only five percent of crashes caused by excessive speed.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2627.asp
Whew! So there you go. I think I'm gonna go do a couple illegal donuts in a parking lot somewhere now. Don't call the cops!
Did you put much thought into that before you posted it? So I deserve to lose my license for good, right? I don't bother you on the forum OR the road. For all you know, I could drive 300,000 miles a year and all of my tickets could be for 7 mph over.
If you are worried about me being a danger to you on the road, then don't be. I am next to your car for maybe a few seconds before I am GONE. Check your mirrors before you change lanes and you are GOLDEN. Then again, I anticipate someone's lack of attention to mirrors and am constantly surveying my options. If they change lanes in front of me or do something else dumb. I am not cruising next to you on my cell phone or following behind you while slappin my kids for half of your commute to work. Oh yea, and stay out of the left lane on the highway unless you are passing someone. This could help your worries.
There isn't ONE PERSON on this site that has NEVER broken the speed limit or at least accelerated faster than the law allows at one point. Why is that ok? Some people are perfectly content with driving the speed limit. Thats fine. But don't sit there and point the finger at me just because "flaws" in the legal system do not apply to you, or more laxity in speed laws would not benefit you.
Speed limits are put in place for safety most of the time. Sometimes a road may have a certain speed limit for emissions puposes. Some person or persons sitting behind a desk looks on paper and decides for EVERYONE what his idea of a "safe" speed would be for a particular road.
Heres a fun example for you: The Dallas North Tollway is like the freakin autobahn of Texas. The speed limit is 55 all the way, yet even COPS go 70 - 80 ALL THE TIME (and I do mean all). This highway is built for speed. The entire stretch has bright lights, few curves, perfectly smooth pavement, and elevation changes which are few and shallow. State troopers love to chill on the shoulder of this highway (because of its ridiculously low speed limit most likely). Luckily, the shoulder is really the only place they CAN sit. No real hiding spots.
Driving 55 is SAFE, but 5 or 10 over this threshold is abruptly not, and you owe 2-300 dollars now. Pay up. According to most laws, I should have had my license revoked a looooong time ago. This would have been to keep me and everyone else safer, right? 13 years and 43 tickets later, I'm still driving. Virtually accident free! Hmmm.... maybe it is less cut and dry then 55 is safe, 60 is unsafe. 2 tickets on your record and you're still a safe driver, but 3 tickets in a year and you are not and should hence lose your license. Although, some cities would have mad a LOT LESS money from me if they had not made it so easy to get deferred.
Based on statistics, I should be uninsurable. Hell, they even check your CREDIT now because increased credit risk goes hand in hand with increased accident risk (supposedly)
. But obviously, no rule or law can be a perfect blanket generalization for every person/driver. Simply getting in your car and driving means you are at a decent chance of being involved in an accident. People wreck because they don't pay attention, drink and drive, or lack the necessary motor skills to operate a motor vehicle safely.
Think about most accident scenarios. Think about ANY sort of rear end accident for example, be it on the highway at 70, a stoplight goin 10, etc. Was it really the SPEED that caused the accident? Or was it the DRIVER NOT PAYING ATTENTION?? Think about it. If I see a threat and can hit the brakes and stop before hitting something, was I driving too fast? God gave me this amazing ability to be able to adjust my speed based on how far ahead I can see, road conditions, my reaction time, etc. As long as I am focused, they work quite well.
You want to look at "accident statistics"? The govt would like to sell you on this idea of speeding causing the bulk of accidents. Public acceptance of speeding tickets would be MUCH lower if people knew the real statistics of speed related accidents, and not the propaganda and skewed statistics that most people are shown. The words "speed related " opens up a whole can of statistical manipulating possibilities. Statistics can easily be manipulated in most any situation, and I could go into whole other rant about this.
My ability to safely drive over the speed limit is due to my individuality. One example is that I have ADD. I can not multitask very well, especially in the car. I daydream all of the time. I will be talking to someone and realize during a convo that I did not hear the last 30 seconds of chatter because my mind wanders. When I drive fast, I PAY ATTENTION like I'm disarming a bomb. I am in sort of a "tunnel vision" with the road if you will. I take driving VERY SERIOUSLY and am very methodical/anal about everything I do behind the wheel. When I try to go the speed limit, I am no longer INVOLVED in the driving experience (I love driving btw). I become somewhat of a passenger. I'm on auto pilot. I'm along for the ride. I start to notice more of the buildings, scenery, etc. Nearly 100% of the time I try to change into an occupied lane, or make an attention related mistake I am in this "speed limit" mode. When I am in "speed mode", this NEVER happens.
Is ADD my excuse that should allow me to speed? No. It is merely part of my individuality that makes my particular driving style the safest for me and others around me. When and if I DO cause an accident, it will certainly cause more damage to all solid matter involved, but the likelyhood of it happening at higher speeds for ME is much less. You are in more danger of being injured by me when I am sticking with the speed limit.
Doing something repeatedly builds skill. Successfully doing something repeatedly builds skill and confidence. I speed often. I get better at cutting through traffic safely and efficiently every day. Most people just simply don't speed all the time. I have more "experience" at this if you will. "Oh but a 75 year old geriatric has more experience, right?" NOT the same thing. Their sensory perception and motor function are much less than a 25 year old.
What is my solution? My brother thinks they should do more comprehensive driving assessments when you get a license, and the more skilled would be allowed higher maximum speeds. This is a pretty good suggestion, but the govt has nothing to GAIN by allowing some people to drive faster. It would make the public happier, but the logistics and cost of such a program would not be worth the result.
When a few people SUCK at driving, it is much easier to make a blanket law that puts a restriciton on EVERY PERSON. Just like why airports have to pat down some elderly person sometimes because a few guys decided to run some planes into a building. It would be too hard (and politically incorrect) to narrow down or customize the process to certain more likely suspects.
Below is some excellent reading on the subject for some of the doubters. This stuff may not be the last word, but they are pretty enlightening none the less. I highly suggest some of you take a gander before writing more negative posts.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2194/oindex.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irre0.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2194/splinks.htm
Some notable excerpts for those low on time:
It would be premature to draw any firm conclusions since the research is still underway. However, the findings to date suggest that, on the average, current speed limits are set too low to be accepted as reasonable by the vast majority of drivers. Only about 1 in 10 speed zones has better than 50-percent compliance. The posted speeds make technical violators out of motorists driving at reasonable and safe speeds.
For the traffic law system to minimize accident risk, then speed limits need to be properly set to define maximum safe speed. Our studies show that most speed zones are posted 8 to 12 mph below the prevailing travel speed and 15 mph or more below the maximum safe speed. Increasing speed limits to more realistic levels will not result in higher speeds but would increase voluntary compliance and target enforcement at the occasional violator and high-risk driver.
One way for restoring the informational value of speed limits requires that we do a better job of engineering speed limits. Hopefully, the results of this research will provide engineers with the knowledge and tools needed to set maximum safe speed limits that are defensible and accepted by the public and the courts.
......in general people have little respect for speed limits when they feel they have been set well below a reasonable safe speed.
.....the evidence to support the argument that speed by itself is a cause of accidents is extremely scarce
US DOT Report Confirms Speed Not Major Accident Cause
US Department of Transportation study finds only five percent of crashes caused by excessive speed.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2627.asp
Whew! So there you go. I think I'm gonna go do a couple illegal donuts in a parking lot somewhere now. Don't call the cops!
05-02-2009, 05:02 AM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
FUCK YOU dude. Everyone is thinking it but no one wants to out right say it. 42 tickets is unbelievable and I don't know how they havent pulled your license. Yes, I am sure we all have sped but I pretty much guarantee no one has that many tickets indicating that you deserve them not that we all some how got lucky. The fact that most people on here have a ticket or two means you are a complete asshole, slow down.
Oh, there is no way you have that may tickets and pay under 1k for insurance a year, something doesn't add up
Oh, there is no way you have that may tickets and pay under 1k for insurance a year, something doesn't add up
But what if I AM lying? If I didn't really have that many tickets then maybe I don't deserve to lose my license after all? Either way, I think you owe me an apology.
Alas, as much as I would greatly enjoy making you look like even more of a fool, there is just too much personal info on each one to mess with blacking out before scanning, not to mention the time spent DOING the scanning.
I wish I would have seen this post sooner, but my above post pretty much addresses yours and others hurt feelings over my speeding. Read it. Read it ALL. THEN, if you are still conviced that I am an "asshole" and you want to "f--- me" or whatever, you can fly over here to Texas and count them. Or you could go headbutt the sidewalk.
05-02-2009, 09:37 AM
#29
Stage 1 Audi S5
Dude, if you posted all of you tickets I would not look like a fool, you on the other hand...
Yes, I am mad because how the hell do you have a license with that many tickets? I mean ask any of your friends, ask strangers on the street, no one is going to have anywhere near that amount of tickets. I don't care how good a driver you THINK you are, obviously you are not according to the police.
"Cutting thru traffic more effectively and safely," no such thing. You are the asshole that cuts everyone off 400 times in dead stop traffic. One lane moves you make an unreasonable safe move most likely w/o a blinker. That lane stops you cut back over for no damn reason. You are the person we ALL hate, not just me.
Why am I mad? I like everyone else has to drive on the same roads as you and that many tickets means you are not safe. As for the accidents, 3 at fault is hardly good. Again you are an asshole and ruin people's day and cars just so you can try and be cool cutting thru traffic, speeding, whatever.
Edit - just noticed your sig, "One badass mofo in the driver's seat"
Yes, I am mad because how the hell do you have a license with that many tickets? I mean ask any of your friends, ask strangers on the street, no one is going to have anywhere near that amount of tickets. I don't care how good a driver you THINK you are, obviously you are not according to the police.
"Cutting thru traffic more effectively and safely," no such thing. You are the asshole that cuts everyone off 400 times in dead stop traffic. One lane moves you make an unreasonable safe move most likely w/o a blinker. That lane stops you cut back over for no damn reason. You are the person we ALL hate, not just me.
Why am I mad? I like everyone else has to drive on the same roads as you and that many tickets means you are not safe. As for the accidents, 3 at fault is hardly good. Again you are an asshole and ruin people's day and cars just so you can try and be cool cutting thru traffic, speeding, whatever.
Edit - just noticed your sig, "One badass mofo in the driver's seat"
Last edited by 1StGenCL; 05-02-2009 at 09:42 AM.
05-02-2009, 04:16 PM
#30
Instructor
Thread Starter
Dude, if you posted all of you tickets I would not look like a fool, you on the other hand...
Yes, I am mad because how the hell do you have a license with that many tickets? I mean ask any of your friends, ask strangers on the street, no one is going to have anywhere near that amount of tickets. I don't care how good a driver you THINK you are, obviously you are not according to the police.
"Cutting thru traffic more effectively and safely," no such thing. You are the asshole that cuts everyone off 400 times in dead stop traffic. One lane moves you make an unreasonable safe move most likely w/o a blinker. That lane stops you cut back over for no damn reason. You are the person we ALL hate, not just me.
Why am I mad? I like everyone else has to drive on the same roads as you and that many tickets means you are not safe. As for the accidents, 3 at fault is hardly good. Again you are an asshole and ruin people's day and cars just so you can try and be cool cutting thru traffic, speeding, whatever.
Edit - just noticed your sig, "One badass mofo in the driver's seat"
Yes, I am mad because how the hell do you have a license with that many tickets? I mean ask any of your friends, ask strangers on the street, no one is going to have anywhere near that amount of tickets. I don't care how good a driver you THINK you are, obviously you are not according to the police.
"Cutting thru traffic more effectively and safely," no such thing. You are the asshole that cuts everyone off 400 times in dead stop traffic. One lane moves you make an unreasonable safe move most likely w/o a blinker. That lane stops you cut back over for no damn reason. You are the person we ALL hate, not just me.
Why am I mad? I like everyone else has to drive on the same roads as you and that many tickets means you are not safe. As for the accidents, 3 at fault is hardly good. Again you are an asshole and ruin people's day and cars just so you can try and be cool cutting thru traffic, speeding, whatever.
Edit - just noticed your sig, "One badass mofo in the driver's seat"
If you would have scanned over ANY of those links I put up, you would begin to realize how the speed limit has much less to do with safety then everyone is lead to believe. I would find it hard to believe that you have not made contact with one object in your vehicle in 11 years of driving. My 2 parking lot fender benders and ice skating at 30mph into a tree many years ago are both irrelevant to your case against me and my speeding.
I bet Mario Andretti has gotten a ticket or two before. Does that piece of paper instantly mean he is no longer a "good" driver? I am certainly not on his level of course.
Ask strangers what? I don't need to take a survey on whether or not the tickets in my file cabinet are actually there or sound believable. My friends all know about my tickets. I am tired of explaining this to the slow.
a) 43 tickets over 13 years = roughly 3.3 a year.
b) Driving in a major metropolitan area with many different cites in close proximity
c) getting deferred in different cities simultaneously because they do not share information
Take about 10 different courts, get deferred in each. After 90 days of probation for each (simultaneously), do it again. Do this 4 times in a year and you could essentially get 40 tickets in ONE YEAR and have a clean record - without even messing with defensive driving. This is obviously not beyond the realm of possibility.
Some citations are compounded on the same ticket. They are not ALL for speeding, but they ARE all moving violations. Again, this is not something to brag about, but I am not a liar. I HATE people that make stuff up. Why would I lie about something that is obviously looked down upon by so many here?
A ticket is not something I learn a "lesson" from. A ticket does not prove to me that I was being unsafe. My record PROVES otherwise. You can't say I'm just "lucky", but that is a few hundred thousand miles of luck.
Nobody is perfect. I may hit something some day. You can bet your ass that it will have nothing to do with my rate of speed. I can identify and react to any sort of obstacle in a given amount of time, and I do not drive beyond the limits of my car or my abilities.
The sign on the side of the road is irrelevant to my abilities, my surroundings, and physics. My knowledge of these helps me determine what is safe. Is 55mph on some road the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM threshold in which one can safely react to a threat?? Why are there less accidents and fatalities on the autobahn with NO SPEED LIMIT?
Finally, you make waaaay too many assumptions. I ruin no one's car, but there may be some hurt feelings from time to time. I religiously use my blinker EVERY TIME. I have been driving over the limit for long enough to know from experience that weaving in and out of traffic during rush hour is pointless, annoying, and just not much fun. If I can't make a reasonable amount of progress after passing a car in front of me then I don't do it. I hate that guy just as much if not more than you do, so maybe we agree on one thing and can be buddies one day.
You OBVIOUSLY are either very close minded or haven't read any of my posts too closely if you are still in this mindset that speeding is so unsafe. People in this world will do things for reasons that you will not fully understand. Your lack of understanding does not mean that these reasons are invalid.
05-02-2009, 10:10 PM
#31
I don't know why people are here to be so righteous. We all speed for the most part... end of story. The responses in this thread are pretty retarded. But I am also skeptical regarding the 42 tickets, I mean OP you have to agree, that is a crazy number.. LoL.
I've been driving since I was 17 and speeding since I was 17. I've been in 2 accidents. And now people are already thinking those accidents are speed related.. LoL. NOPE... I was in bumper to bumper traffic both times and I got REAR ENDED! LoL
Not one accident on my record... I'm sorry, being REAR ENDED is not my fault but the ideot who is accident prone at 2mph..LoL... he should have his liscence taken away. I do not speed like an asshole, I just speed... big difference. Eventhough the speed limit is 55mph .. I do not know a single car that is going at that speed, even 60mph or 65mph. If there is that one car that does, he's viewed as the asshole for holding up traffic and causing so many people having to switch lanes to get around him, and statistically speaking, you are more prone to get into accidents when you switch lanes.
I actually feel like if I drive slow, I have to avoid more cars that could've crashed into me... its crazy. Then if I bump my speed up a little, I am more at ease.. weird but its true.
I've been driving since I was 17 and speeding since I was 17. I've been in 2 accidents. And now people are already thinking those accidents are speed related.. LoL. NOPE... I was in bumper to bumper traffic both times and I got REAR ENDED! LoL
Not one accident on my record... I'm sorry, being REAR ENDED is not my fault but the ideot who is accident prone at 2mph..LoL... he should have his liscence taken away. I do not speed like an asshole, I just speed... big difference. Eventhough the speed limit is 55mph .. I do not know a single car that is going at that speed, even 60mph or 65mph. If there is that one car that does, he's viewed as the asshole for holding up traffic and causing so many people having to switch lanes to get around him, and statistically speaking, you are more prone to get into accidents when you switch lanes.
I actually feel like if I drive slow, I have to avoid more cars that could've crashed into me... its crazy. Then if I bump my speed up a little, I am more at ease.. weird but its true.
04-17-2013, 12:46 PM
#32
B A N N E D
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I've done it before. But the final decision is going to be up to the judge handling your ticket. Even if it's common in your area, they may decide you can't do it. <a href="http://www.freemanxexperience.co.nz/driving-experiences-gifts/driving-courses/">Professional Driving Courses</a> - for the best training across Oz & NZ - <a
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04-17-2013, 01:49 PM
#34
Senior Moderator
I wonder if he signed up today to contribute that one revival post...
To any one as stupid as the OP, it is not the honor system. I have been held in contempt of a court because I mistakenly told them I hadn't taken the course within a year when I had (I was off by 3 weeks
). The judge slapped an additional $100 onto my fine.
To any one as stupid as the OP, it is not the honor system. I have been held in contempt of a court because I mistakenly told them I hadn't taken the course within a year when I had (I was off by 3 weeks
). The judge slapped an additional $100 onto my fine.
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04-17-2013, 02:43 PM
#36
Moderator
The only way I've done it was DD for the first ticket & deferred adjudication (which requires DD, along with 6 mo's probation) for the 2nd.
Haven't had a ticket since about late '07
Haven't had a ticket since about late '07
04-17-2013, 02:54 PM
#37
I've done it before. But the final decision is going to be up to the judge handling your ticket. Even if it's common in your area, they may decide you can't do it. Professional Driving Courses - for the best training across Oz & NZ
04-17-2013, 03:43 PM
#38
Calm down folks. The spammer has been banned.
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04-17-2013, 08:51 PM
#39
Instructor
Thread Starter
I wonder if he signed up today to contribute that one revival post...
To any one as stupid as the OP, it is not the honor system. I have been held in contempt of a court because I mistakenly told them I hadn't taken the course within a year when I had (I was off by 3 weeks). The judge slapped an additional $100 onto my fine.
To any one as stupid as the OP, it is not the honor system. I have been held in contempt of a court because I mistakenly told them I hadn't taken the course within a year when I had (I was off by 3 weeks
). The judge slapped an additional $100 onto my fine.