Acura RSX review inside...
05-07-2001, 02:55 PM
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Acura RSX review inside...
From Autoweek:
Grandpa used to say it's tough growing old. But between his folksy aphorisms and curmudgeonly grumblings, he failed to ever mention that sometimes just growing up is bittersweet. Perhaps because it's a lesson only experience can teach.
Acura, Honda Motor Co.'s upmarket division, has done a lot of growing up in recent years. Its cars look better today than ever, produce quicker numbers at the track and offer buyers greater bang- (and equipment) for-the-buck than previous models. More importantly, Acura has watched its sales consistently rise; its 3.2TL now leads the way as America's No. 1 selling near-luxury midsize sedan, eclipsing such competition as the BMW 3 Series, Mercedes C-Class and Lexus ES300. For 2001, Acura hopes to move out 170,000 cars and trucks.
What, you ask, is so bittersweet about that? Well, not much. It's just sometimes when a new model debuts it's hard to let go of the old.
The smooth lines of the Acura RSX make the car it's replacing, the Integra, almost instantly seem out of date. Not only will the RSX raise the luxo level of the brand, with upgraded materials used throughout the cockpit, but it also packs some serious performance improvements as well.
If you didn't already know, the Acura Integra is about to die. In its place Acura will roll out the RSX this July, to the delight of every Acura dealer in the country, says the automaker. To be sure, Acura's RSX is better than the Integra it replaces, in every quantifiable way.
"The Integra was more boy-racer," says RSX product planner, Jay Joseph. "We needed to bring the RSX more in line with the rest of the Acura lineup. It needed to grow up." In Acura-speak that means giving it more performance and more luxury appeal. To that end the RSX succeeds, though it took a good deal of time behind the wheel before we felt comfortable bidding sayonara to Integra, boy-racer or not. After all, you don't just casually toss aside a relationship built up over a decade-and-a-half.
On paper-and on road-the RSX impresses. The base RSX gets a 20-horsepower boost over the Integra GS with a 160-horsepower i-VTEC four mated to either a five-speed manual or SportShift automatic. The sportier Type-S gets a 200-horsepower 2.0-liter engine-30 more horses than in the Integra GS-R-linked to a sweet-shifting close-ratio six-speed manual. Acura says it improved the six-speed's shift effort over the GS-R's five-speed while shortening the throws to only 1.8 inches.
In both cars, power comes more quickly with the addition of a cam phaser (the "i" in i-VTEC), boosting torque throughout the rev range without interfering with the VTEC whomp at the top-end. Additionally, a dual-stage intake manifold helps improve engine efficiency throughout the rpm range in the RSX. The Type-S gets a short-length intake manifold designed for higher output, and both cars benefit from a redesigned exhaust system that reduces backpressure, allowing for better exhaust flow. These improvements help bump RSX's torque to 141 lb-ft at 4000 rpm over the GS's 124 lb-ft at 5200 rpm, while the Type-S cranks out 142 lb-ft at 6000 rpm compared to the GS-R's 128 lb-ft at 6200 rpm.
Acura also upgraded the brakes, giving RSX larger discs than the outgoing Integra, with 10.3-inch rotors up front in the RSX and 11.8-inchers in the Type-S. Each model gets 10.2-inch discs in the rear.
But as with the Honda Civic, RSX loses the Integra's front double-wishbone setup in favor of a MacPherson strut design, with the Type-S version getting a strut tower brace as well. Wheel bearing sizes and damper stiffness are increased all-around. The rear sits on a more compact double-wishbone suspension than the Integra, and all RSXs get larger 205/55R-16s Michelin MXM-4 all-season tires and five-spoke alloy wheels.
Looking at the two versions side by side, it's easy to see how much Acura worked to make the RSX look better, too. Inside, controls wrap around the driver cockpit-style. The seats provide a tremendous amount of lateral support, from the seat bottom up through the shoulders. The materials used, too, impart a level of sophistication not found in Integra, from dimpled rubber surrounding the instrument panel to the tasteful metal-look plastic around the climate control switchgear. The Type-S comes standard with leather. It's a clean look, and one that can't be mistaken for anything but upmarket.
The Type-S comes near fully equipped, too, including a standard six-disc in-dash CD player with cassette deck and Bose BassBox subwoofer mounted in the trunk; leather interior; and power moonroof. The only options available on the base RSX are leather interior and the SportShift automatic transmission.
The RSX sits 2.56-inches taller than the Integra, giving front passengers more headroom. Rear seat passengers benefit from about an inch more legroom and a flatter floor to stretch out in, but the C-pillar impedes into the cabin more, forcing taller passengers to sit with their heads slightly askew.
The RSX's skin may have a more modern look, but the Integra's familiar shape resounds in its lines. Gone are the Integra's familiar round headlights, but RSX's single clear lenses mimic the old model's double-circle look. Set between the headlights sits a recognizably Acura pentagonal chrome grille. From the side, RSX strikes an even more Integra-like pose, with slightly shorter front and rear overhangs and a sweptback coupe profile.
The RSX makes the Integra look instantly dated, old-fashioned, a design spawned from the last decade. And it's a far cry from the first Integras to roll off the line 15 years ago.
With Acura's inception in 1986, Honda aimed at expanding its offerings beyond its work-a-day lineup of Accords and Civics, rolling out hits like the Acura Legend and Integra, and in September 1990, the exotic NSX. But Acura had its share of flops, too, as witnessed by the short-lived Accord-based Vigor in 1992 and the SLX sport/ute, a rebadged Isuzu Trooper, in 1996.
Success was too slow in coming to Honda's premier division, and in 1996, the automaker began to transform itself into a new-and-improved Acura.
The Vigor made way for the TL-series, while the Legend became the 3.5RL. Alphanumeric designations, apparently to the marketers, make for more luxurious-sounding cars, and with TL Acura had a relatively easy time convincing consumers of that. But with the Legend, Acura faced a public that placed more brand-equity on the nameplate than on the marque. Sales of Acura's largest car pale in comparison to that of the Legend, which soared to 70,770 at its peak in 1988. Last year Acura sold just 14,827 RLs.
The Integra faces the same reality. More people know what an Integra is than an Acura. But with a lineup in 2001 that includes the CL, TL, RL, MDX and NSX, clearly the Integra's time has come to go. How easily the buying public will make the transition with the new car is yet to be seen.
The late winter sun doesn't rise over the giant Twin Ring Motegi racing and entertainment facility so much as the air grows gradually lighter. Empty grandstands slowly emerge from the morning fog, until eventually a row of large, modern-looking suites materialize out of the gray. Needless to say, our group of jet-lagged American scribes doesn't attract spectators. Situated just 70 miles north-northeast outside Tokyo, Motegi lies deep in the Japanese countryside, surrounded by farms and forestland.
Here we get our first taste of the RSX, though not immediately. Acura brought cars for comparison, including the outgoing Integra GS-R, to the track as well. We need a baseline, so we jump into the Integra and head out to Motegi's road course.
The Integra is loud with the buzz of its 1.8-liter VTEC four filling the cabin. As a 90-degree right-hander looms, though, noise hardly matters as we drift to the outside and prepare for the turn, stabbing brakes and downshifting to third, to second. Either because of jet or linkage lag (or adrenaline surge), the shifter hangs up for a moment between gears. We try again, more slowly this time, securing second. With a few yards remaining to the corner, we point the Integra's nose, and scrub off speed as tires slide through the turn. We ride out second gear through a short chute and ease off the throttle for a turn-in to a series of S-turns. The Integra's five-speed manual lets us keep second without bumping up against the rev limiter; we grab third gear at exit onto the straight and drift toward the track's outer curbing.
Integra allows us to feel everything, even when there is too much to feel-like the slight flop of the body as it leans into a turn. Or tires scrambling under too much body roll. And it's an exhilaratingly familiar ride. Coming to the pits after a few laps means a reluctant surrender to someone else.
But, that also means we get our first crack at the RSX Type-S. Whoa! Differences between old and new leap out as soon as RSX is up to speed. Its relative quiet at full throttle is nearly unnerving, more so than the noise of the Integra. But the Type-S's extra 30 horses and 14 more lb-ft of torque make themselves known on the front straight. We enter that first turn at almost 110 mph-10 mph faster than the Integra. The brakes grab with authority, allowing RSX to dive deeper into corners. Now comes the downshift: four, three, two. It's tighter, more precise. No hanging up between gears, just clean short throws from gate to gate. Through Motegi's short chute, however, the tranny's close ratios become apparent as it bogs. The RSX's rev limiter forces us to back off the throttle before the esses.
It sets up nicely through corners, but on quick transitions the tail loosens up. We ease off the throttle and gather it. Again we bump against the rev limiter before our line onto the straight. After a couple of more laps, it's time to take a break.
The next day we try again, alternating again between Integra and RSX and come to understand that the RSX Type-S behaves more like a luxury car than Integra ever did. To that, RSX turns in crisper than Integra, the chassis feels tauter and road noise is lessened. Integra imbued a rawness that is all but erased in RSX. And because of the RSX's more isolated feel, we were able to carry more speed into turns in the Type-S. Recalibrating our senses to the car, Type-S performed magnificently. No more overdriving a corner, no more bumping redline.
The Integra, we came to understand, was an insolent youth. For old times' sake (and perhaps because we consider ourselves Integra peers?) we take another, final spin. It is loud. This time we notice. And it annoys us.
Acura wants a young, sophisticated buyer with RSX. It says the typical Type-S buyer will be 27 years old and earn $60,000 a year. Acura aims for between 7000 and 9000 affluent youngsters who'll buy Type-S; this of a total 20,000 to 25,000 RSXs the automaker plans to sell per year. The RSX sticker should not venture too much beyond that of the Integra it replaces which now sells for between $19,500 for the base model and $24,500 for the Integra GS-R. It may or may not matter whether these buyers know about Integra, though we're sure it could only help.
But we wonder what to do about a car that performs substantially better than the one it replaces, yet leaves us remembering the good ol' (insolent) days? Perhaps we should wait-and pray-for an RSX Type-R? Though Acura has no plans for such a model, our considered opinion is that there's room for an R version. History shows us that anything "Type-R" from Acura must have a rawness to it. Insolence, even.
And if Acura won't give us one, well, then, we'll just have to grow up.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
Grandpa used to say it's tough growing old. But between his folksy aphorisms and curmudgeonly grumblings, he failed to ever mention that sometimes just growing up is bittersweet. Perhaps because it's a lesson only experience can teach.
Acura, Honda Motor Co.'s upmarket division, has done a lot of growing up in recent years. Its cars look better today than ever, produce quicker numbers at the track and offer buyers greater bang- (and equipment) for-the-buck than previous models. More importantly, Acura has watched its sales consistently rise; its 3.2TL now leads the way as America's No. 1 selling near-luxury midsize sedan, eclipsing such competition as the BMW 3 Series, Mercedes C-Class and Lexus ES300. For 2001, Acura hopes to move out 170,000 cars and trucks.
What, you ask, is so bittersweet about that? Well, not much. It's just sometimes when a new model debuts it's hard to let go of the old.
The smooth lines of the Acura RSX make the car it's replacing, the Integra, almost instantly seem out of date. Not only will the RSX raise the luxo level of the brand, with upgraded materials used throughout the cockpit, but it also packs some serious performance improvements as well.
If you didn't already know, the Acura Integra is about to die. In its place Acura will roll out the RSX this July, to the delight of every Acura dealer in the country, says the automaker. To be sure, Acura's RSX is better than the Integra it replaces, in every quantifiable way.
"The Integra was more boy-racer," says RSX product planner, Jay Joseph. "We needed to bring the RSX more in line with the rest of the Acura lineup. It needed to grow up." In Acura-speak that means giving it more performance and more luxury appeal. To that end the RSX succeeds, though it took a good deal of time behind the wheel before we felt comfortable bidding sayonara to Integra, boy-racer or not. After all, you don't just casually toss aside a relationship built up over a decade-and-a-half.
On paper-and on road-the RSX impresses. The base RSX gets a 20-horsepower boost over the Integra GS with a 160-horsepower i-VTEC four mated to either a five-speed manual or SportShift automatic. The sportier Type-S gets a 200-horsepower 2.0-liter engine-30 more horses than in the Integra GS-R-linked to a sweet-shifting close-ratio six-speed manual. Acura says it improved the six-speed's shift effort over the GS-R's five-speed while shortening the throws to only 1.8 inches.
In both cars, power comes more quickly with the addition of a cam phaser (the "i" in i-VTEC), boosting torque throughout the rev range without interfering with the VTEC whomp at the top-end. Additionally, a dual-stage intake manifold helps improve engine efficiency throughout the rpm range in the RSX. The Type-S gets a short-length intake manifold designed for higher output, and both cars benefit from a redesigned exhaust system that reduces backpressure, allowing for better exhaust flow. These improvements help bump RSX's torque to 141 lb-ft at 4000 rpm over the GS's 124 lb-ft at 5200 rpm, while the Type-S cranks out 142 lb-ft at 6000 rpm compared to the GS-R's 128 lb-ft at 6200 rpm.
Acura also upgraded the brakes, giving RSX larger discs than the outgoing Integra, with 10.3-inch rotors up front in the RSX and 11.8-inchers in the Type-S. Each model gets 10.2-inch discs in the rear.
But as with the Honda Civic, RSX loses the Integra's front double-wishbone setup in favor of a MacPherson strut design, with the Type-S version getting a strut tower brace as well. Wheel bearing sizes and damper stiffness are increased all-around. The rear sits on a more compact double-wishbone suspension than the Integra, and all RSXs get larger 205/55R-16s Michelin MXM-4 all-season tires and five-spoke alloy wheels.
Looking at the two versions side by side, it's easy to see how much Acura worked to make the RSX look better, too. Inside, controls wrap around the driver cockpit-style. The seats provide a tremendous amount of lateral support, from the seat bottom up through the shoulders. The materials used, too, impart a level of sophistication not found in Integra, from dimpled rubber surrounding the instrument panel to the tasteful metal-look plastic around the climate control switchgear. The Type-S comes standard with leather. It's a clean look, and one that can't be mistaken for anything but upmarket.
The Type-S comes near fully equipped, too, including a standard six-disc in-dash CD player with cassette deck and Bose BassBox subwoofer mounted in the trunk; leather interior; and power moonroof. The only options available on the base RSX are leather interior and the SportShift automatic transmission.
The RSX sits 2.56-inches taller than the Integra, giving front passengers more headroom. Rear seat passengers benefit from about an inch more legroom and a flatter floor to stretch out in, but the C-pillar impedes into the cabin more, forcing taller passengers to sit with their heads slightly askew.
The RSX's skin may have a more modern look, but the Integra's familiar shape resounds in its lines. Gone are the Integra's familiar round headlights, but RSX's single clear lenses mimic the old model's double-circle look. Set between the headlights sits a recognizably Acura pentagonal chrome grille. From the side, RSX strikes an even more Integra-like pose, with slightly shorter front and rear overhangs and a sweptback coupe profile.
The RSX makes the Integra look instantly dated, old-fashioned, a design spawned from the last decade. And it's a far cry from the first Integras to roll off the line 15 years ago.
With Acura's inception in 1986, Honda aimed at expanding its offerings beyond its work-a-day lineup of Accords and Civics, rolling out hits like the Acura Legend and Integra, and in September 1990, the exotic NSX. But Acura had its share of flops, too, as witnessed by the short-lived Accord-based Vigor in 1992 and the SLX sport/ute, a rebadged Isuzu Trooper, in 1996.
Success was too slow in coming to Honda's premier division, and in 1996, the automaker began to transform itself into a new-and-improved Acura.
The Vigor made way for the TL-series, while the Legend became the 3.5RL. Alphanumeric designations, apparently to the marketers, make for more luxurious-sounding cars, and with TL Acura had a relatively easy time convincing consumers of that. But with the Legend, Acura faced a public that placed more brand-equity on the nameplate than on the marque. Sales of Acura's largest car pale in comparison to that of the Legend, which soared to 70,770 at its peak in 1988. Last year Acura sold just 14,827 RLs.
The Integra faces the same reality. More people know what an Integra is than an Acura. But with a lineup in 2001 that includes the CL, TL, RL, MDX and NSX, clearly the Integra's time has come to go. How easily the buying public will make the transition with the new car is yet to be seen.
The late winter sun doesn't rise over the giant Twin Ring Motegi racing and entertainment facility so much as the air grows gradually lighter. Empty grandstands slowly emerge from the morning fog, until eventually a row of large, modern-looking suites materialize out of the gray. Needless to say, our group of jet-lagged American scribes doesn't attract spectators. Situated just 70 miles north-northeast outside Tokyo, Motegi lies deep in the Japanese countryside, surrounded by farms and forestland.
Here we get our first taste of the RSX, though not immediately. Acura brought cars for comparison, including the outgoing Integra GS-R, to the track as well. We need a baseline, so we jump into the Integra and head out to Motegi's road course.
The Integra is loud with the buzz of its 1.8-liter VTEC four filling the cabin. As a 90-degree right-hander looms, though, noise hardly matters as we drift to the outside and prepare for the turn, stabbing brakes and downshifting to third, to second. Either because of jet or linkage lag (or adrenaline surge), the shifter hangs up for a moment between gears. We try again, more slowly this time, securing second. With a few yards remaining to the corner, we point the Integra's nose, and scrub off speed as tires slide through the turn. We ride out second gear through a short chute and ease off the throttle for a turn-in to a series of S-turns. The Integra's five-speed manual lets us keep second without bumping up against the rev limiter; we grab third gear at exit onto the straight and drift toward the track's outer curbing.
Integra allows us to feel everything, even when there is too much to feel-like the slight flop of the body as it leans into a turn. Or tires scrambling under too much body roll. And it's an exhilaratingly familiar ride. Coming to the pits after a few laps means a reluctant surrender to someone else.
But, that also means we get our first crack at the RSX Type-S. Whoa! Differences between old and new leap out as soon as RSX is up to speed. Its relative quiet at full throttle is nearly unnerving, more so than the noise of the Integra. But the Type-S's extra 30 horses and 14 more lb-ft of torque make themselves known on the front straight. We enter that first turn at almost 110 mph-10 mph faster than the Integra. The brakes grab with authority, allowing RSX to dive deeper into corners. Now comes the downshift: four, three, two. It's tighter, more precise. No hanging up between gears, just clean short throws from gate to gate. Through Motegi's short chute, however, the tranny's close ratios become apparent as it bogs. The RSX's rev limiter forces us to back off the throttle before the esses.
It sets up nicely through corners, but on quick transitions the tail loosens up. We ease off the throttle and gather it. Again we bump against the rev limiter before our line onto the straight. After a couple of more laps, it's time to take a break.
The next day we try again, alternating again between Integra and RSX and come to understand that the RSX Type-S behaves more like a luxury car than Integra ever did. To that, RSX turns in crisper than Integra, the chassis feels tauter and road noise is lessened. Integra imbued a rawness that is all but erased in RSX. And because of the RSX's more isolated feel, we were able to carry more speed into turns in the Type-S. Recalibrating our senses to the car, Type-S performed magnificently. No more overdriving a corner, no more bumping redline.
The Integra, we came to understand, was an insolent youth. For old times' sake (and perhaps because we consider ourselves Integra peers?) we take another, final spin. It is loud. This time we notice. And it annoys us.
Acura wants a young, sophisticated buyer with RSX. It says the typical Type-S buyer will be 27 years old and earn $60,000 a year. Acura aims for between 7000 and 9000 affluent youngsters who'll buy Type-S; this of a total 20,000 to 25,000 RSXs the automaker plans to sell per year. The RSX sticker should not venture too much beyond that of the Integra it replaces which now sells for between $19,500 for the base model and $24,500 for the Integra GS-R. It may or may not matter whether these buyers know about Integra, though we're sure it could only help.
But we wonder what to do about a car that performs substantially better than the one it replaces, yet leaves us remembering the good ol' (insolent) days? Perhaps we should wait-and pray-for an RSX Type-R? Though Acura has no plans for such a model, our considered opinion is that there's room for an R version. History shows us that anything "Type-R" from Acura must have a rawness to it. Insolence, even.
And if Acura won't give us one, well, then, we'll just have to grow up.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-07-2001, 03:00 PM
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I'd be careful plagarizing all these magazine stories gavrill.
Not to mention a link would work just as well.
-J
------------------
2001 CL-S Aegean Blue/black interior spoiler, wheel locks, no-navi
Stock for now.
Not to mention a link would work just as well.
-J
------------------
2001 CL-S Aegean Blue/black interior spoiler, wheel locks, no-navi
Stock for now.
05-07-2001, 03:27 PM
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Comments:
1. I think Honda/Acura is goind the right thing by going the MacPherson strut design up front for the RSX and Civic and dropping the double-wishbone. MacPherson strut design has come a long way as far as handling goes and it provides a lot of packaging advantages that contribute to more interior space and lower cost. Hell, the E46 M3 is using MacPherson struts up front.
2. Acura must love those Michelin MXMs. Even the RSX wears them now!
3. It says: "Additionally, a dual-stage intake manifold helps improve engine efficiency throughout the rpm range in the RSX. The Type-S gets a short-length intake manifold designed for higher output..."
I dont understand. Does that mean that the Type S does not get the dual stage manifold but just a short length manifold? Or does that mean that the Type S gets both? If the latter is the case, how does it work?
4. Acura seems it is following the same strategy with the standard equippment with the RSX as it did with the TL and CL. Great job. A 6 disc changer is standard! With a subwoofer. Wow.
5. "3.2TL now leads the way as America's No. 1 selling near-luxury midsize sedan, eclipsing such competition as the BMW 3 Series, Mercedes C-Class and Lexus ES300. For 2001,...". Great job Acura. The best is yet to come in my opinion.
6. "More people know what an Integra is than an Acura". Then why are they changing the name?
7. "It sets up nicely through corners, but on quick transitions the tail loosens up. We ease off the throttle and gather it." I see this as an advantage. A little oversteer from a FWD "sports" car is not a bad thing right?
8. "Acura wants a young, sophisticated buyer with RSX. It says the typical Type-S buyer will be 27 years old and earn $60,000 a year." Sure!
9. "Acura aims for between 7000 and 9000 affluent youngsters who'll buy Type-S;" I think this is way pesimistic. I think the Type S will capture 35% of the total RSX volume easy.
10. About the Type R comments in the end: Just take the engine from the S2000 and do the usual suspension and wheel package mods and there is your Type R. I wonder if production capacity permits that though. Plus I wonder about the cost of that engine.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
1. I think Honda/Acura is goind the right thing by going the MacPherson strut design up front for the RSX and Civic and dropping the double-wishbone. MacPherson strut design has come a long way as far as handling goes and it provides a lot of packaging advantages that contribute to more interior space and lower cost. Hell, the E46 M3 is using MacPherson struts up front.
2. Acura must love those Michelin MXMs. Even the RSX wears them now!
3. It says: "Additionally, a dual-stage intake manifold helps improve engine efficiency throughout the rpm range in the RSX. The Type-S gets a short-length intake manifold designed for higher output..."
I dont understand. Does that mean that the Type S does not get the dual stage manifold but just a short length manifold? Or does that mean that the Type S gets both? If the latter is the case, how does it work?
4. Acura seems it is following the same strategy with the standard equippment with the RSX as it did with the TL and CL. Great job. A 6 disc changer is standard! With a subwoofer. Wow.
5. "3.2TL now leads the way as America's No. 1 selling near-luxury midsize sedan, eclipsing such competition as the BMW 3 Series, Mercedes C-Class and Lexus ES300. For 2001,...". Great job Acura. The best is yet to come in my opinion.
6. "More people know what an Integra is than an Acura". Then why are they changing the name?
7. "It sets up nicely through corners, but on quick transitions the tail loosens up. We ease off the throttle and gather it." I see this as an advantage. A little oversteer from a FWD "sports" car is not a bad thing right?
8. "Acura wants a young, sophisticated buyer with RSX. It says the typical Type-S buyer will be 27 years old and earn $60,000 a year." Sure!
9. "Acura aims for between 7000 and 9000 affluent youngsters who'll buy Type-S;" I think this is way pesimistic. I think the Type S will capture 35% of the total RSX volume easy.
10. About the Type R comments in the end: Just take the engine from the S2000 and do the usual suspension and wheel package mods and there is your Type R. I wonder if production capacity permits that though. Plus I wonder about the cost of that engine.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-07-2001, 03:29 PM
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Good point. Multi billion dollar company Disney just came down hard on a small time day care for painting Mickey, Pluto, and Goofy on the side of their building. All they were trying to do was make the kids feel safe. Talk about David and Goliath!!!
05-07-2001, 03:52 PM
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Er...IF you site your Source: It's not Plagarizism! Course I'm NOT real sure if he needs to add anything MORE THAN: FROM AUTOWEEK:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JRock:
I'd be careful plagarizing all these magazine stories gavrill.
Not to mention a link would work just as well.
-J
</font>
I'd be careful plagarizing all these magazine stories gavrill.
Not to mention a link would work just as well.
-J
</font>
05-07-2001, 04:00 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by caddy:
Er...IF you site your Source: It's not Plagarizism! Course I'm NOT real sure if he needs to add anything MORE THAN: FROM AUTOWEEK:
</font>
Er...IF you site your Source: It's not Plagarizism! Course I'm NOT real sure if he needs to add anything MORE THAN: FROM AUTOWEEK:
</font>
Guys guys. You are missing the point here. The point is, LET US MAKE COMMENTS ON THIS ARTICLE WRITTEN FROM A GOOD SOURCE AND LEARN FROM THOSE COMMENTS. Even our TL/CL cars are mentioned. Come on, stay focused on what is best for us and Acura.
What do you guys think about the article? I wonna read your comments.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
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05-07-2001, 05:55 PM
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What kind of 27 year old idiot that makes 60k a year would buy an RSX type S when they can get the CL Type S.
other than the fact it offers a 6 speed. which the cl will soon have.
The realworld buys of this car will be
1. spoiled high skool kids w/ rich parents
or 2. 19~25 students or workers making under 35k.
Any one who makes over 60k would probably buy a car over 30k. JMO.
or
------------------
CL-S
White/Ebony/Navi/Spoiler/Visor/Full Bra/Mud Guards/Acura Car Cover/Tint 20%,35%,5% on Sun Roof, Rockford 250a2 Amp w/JL10w6 / K&N Drop in Filter.Polarg m-6.
Comptech Headers,Springs,Sways, Eurolite Xenon Crystal high beams.Polarg m6
gtech 0-60 6.03 w/ 438 pound load. preheader.
other than the fact it offers a 6 speed. which the cl will soon have.
The realworld buys of this car will be
1. spoiled high skool kids w/ rich parents
or 2. 19~25 students or workers making under 35k.
Any one who makes over 60k would probably buy a car over 30k. JMO.
or
------------------
CL-S
White/Ebony/Navi/Spoiler/Visor/Full Bra/Mud Guards/Acura Car Cover/Tint 20%,35%,5% on Sun Roof, Rockford 250a2 Amp w/JL10w6 / K&N Drop in Filter.Polarg m-6.
Comptech Headers,Springs,Sways, Eurolite Xenon Crystal high beams.Polarg m6
gtech 0-60 6.03 w/ 438 pound load. preheader.
05-07-2001, 06:04 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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Using an S2000 engine in the RSX for a Type R variant wouldn't be a matter of just popping it in and slapping a decal on it. They're two completely different engines (F series versus K series), not to mention that there isn't a FWD transmission for the F20C motor and the RSX chassis obviously isn't RWD, so a parts swap isn't feasible either.
We can dream though... I hear the replacement for the 4-door Integra will be powered by an S2000 engine variant and be RWD.
------------------
2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI w/bypass, Comptech header
[This message has been edited by RAdams (edited 05-07-2001).]
We can dream though... I hear the replacement for the 4-door Integra will be powered by an S2000 engine variant and be RWD.
------------------
2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI w/bypass, Comptech header
[This message has been edited by RAdams (edited 05-07-2001).]
05-07-2001, 06:40 PM
#10
2nd Gear
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NOVAwhiteTypeS:
What kind of 27 year old idiot that makes 60k a year would buy an RSX type S when they can get the CL Type S. </font>
What kind of 27 year old idiot that makes 60k a year would buy an RSX type S when they can get the CL Type S. </font>
05-07-2001, 07:02 PM
#11
Drifting
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I'm 55, and if the RSX Type-S had been available I probably would have gotten it instead of the CL-S (last June), although I'd really like to see the Type-R version!
------------------
Eat Safe, Use Condiments
Red CL-S, non-Nav, 35% tint, M6 driving lights, M4 map and door lights
------------------
Eat Safe, Use Condiments
Red CL-S, non-Nav, 35% tint, M6 driving lights, M4 map and door lights
05-07-2001, 07:13 PM
#12
Elite Member
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mackincls:
Doh! Not everyone thinks like you. As much as you try to think it's a young persons car, it's really aimed for the older crowd.
</font>
Doh! Not everyone thinks like you. As much as you try to think it's a young persons car, it's really aimed for the older crowd.
</font>
------------------
CL TYPE S - Silver
Spoiler, Eibach Pro-Kit Springs, Comptech Sways, AEM CAI
Polarg M6(road lamps), M12(turns), M13(reverse), M4(map and door), M16(dome)
Cleared Headlights(M4)
05-07-2001, 07:20 PM
#13
Race Director
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wow, i think if this RSX-S was available last year, i would have a tough time choosing between the CL-S, or the RSX-S and pocket some money...
All i can say is FINALLY Acura is getting its shit together! I am really happy for Acura though.
And I am glad the name Integra is gone too, cause its time for acura to move onn...
------------------
2001 CL-S
Black/Black
Moonroof Visor
35% Tint All Around
Black Wood Dash Kit
Sportswing spoiler
My Bitch
All i can say is FINALLY Acura is getting its shit together! I am really happy for Acura though.
And I am glad the name Integra is gone too, cause its time for acura to move onn...
------------------
2001 CL-S
Black/Black
Moonroof Visor
35% Tint All Around
Black Wood Dash Kit
Sportswing spoiler
My Bitch
05-07-2001, 07:59 PM
#14
Moderator Alumnus
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by amirsafdari:
wow, i think if this RSX-S was available last year, i would have a tough time choosing between the CL-S, or the RSX-S and pocket some money...
All i can say is FINALLY Acura is getting its shit together! I am really happy for Acura though.
And I am glad the name Integra is gone too, cause its time for acura to move onn...
</font>
wow, i think if this RSX-S was available last year, i would have a tough time choosing between the CL-S, or the RSX-S and pocket some money...
All i can say is FINALLY Acura is getting its shit together! I am really happy for Acura though.
And I am glad the name Integra is gone too, cause its time for acura to move onn...
</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-07-2001, 09:10 PM
#16
2nd Gear
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ELITE TYPE S:
That's what they said about the cl-s too...i think the majority of the people on this board are under 27...i dont know if this is true of cl-s owners as a whole...but i agree with Nova
</font>
That's what they said about the cl-s too...i think the majority of the people on this board are under 27...i dont know if this is true of cl-s owners as a whole...but i agree with Nova
</font>
05-07-2001, 09:13 PM
#17
Banned
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ELITE TYPE S:
That's what they said about the cl-s too...i think the majority of the people on this board are under 27...i dont know if this is true of cl-s owners as a whole...but i agree with Nova
</font>
That's what they said about the cl-s too...i think the majority of the people on this board are under 27...i dont know if this is true of cl-s owners as a whole...but i agree with Nova
</font>
------------------
2001 Silver 3.2CL Type S with Spoiler and Navi
Charter member of the Scratched Rim Club
05-07-2001, 09:57 PM
#18
Suzuka Master
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that' spretty true...and the majority of cl-p owners are middle aged to old men.
which scares me...call me a sexist, but i'd rather have more power in a man's hands than a woman's considering the way i see them drive.
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-07-2001).]
which scares me...call me a sexist, but i'd rather have more power in a man's hands than a woman's considering the way i see them drive.
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-07-2001).]
05-07-2001, 11:03 PM
#19
Fahrvergnügen'd
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JRock:
I'd be careful plagarizing all these magazine stories gavrill.
Not to mention a link would work just as well.
-J
</font>
I'd be careful plagarizing all these magazine stories gavrill.
Not to mention a link would work just as well.
-J
</font>
05-07-2001, 11:32 PM
#20
Retired. Not available.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mackincls:
Well, I'm 34. I guess those days of me thinking i'm still a youngin' are over. I still love me CL-S, but those reason for me buying the car was because it has a mature and sophisticated look to it. I didn't think it really appealed to the younger crowd. I just thought Novas words were a little harsh when he said anyone under 27, making 60k would be an "IDIOT" for chosing a RSX. Anyways, before I ruffle too manu feathers, have a great day!</font>
Well, I'm 34. I guess those days of me thinking i'm still a youngin' are over. I still love me CL-S, but those reason for me buying the car was because it has a mature and sophisticated look to it. I didn't think it really appealed to the younger crowd. I just thought Novas words were a little harsh when he said anyone under 27, making 60k would be an "IDIOT" for chosing a RSX. Anyways, before I ruffle too manu feathers, have a great day!</font>
------------------
'01 Silver CL-S
Painted Mud Guard
Silver Aluminum Pedals
Kenwood Amp with 10in. Pioneer sub.
(modified) CAI.
My Car
[This message has been edited by SilverKnight (edited 05-07-2001).]
05-07-2001, 11:43 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
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Ok whats the story on the "Bose BassBox subwoofer"? I just want a compatible sub thats hopefully not to space eating as I use my trunk every weekend for shoots.
Anybody know this creature?
------------------
"01" CL Type-S
White\Black
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sways
Navigation System
Burlwood Shifter
Guards+Fenderwell Trim
PIAA16969
Smokers Package
My Car
Anybody know this creature?
------------------
"01" CL Type-S
White\Black
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sways
Navigation System
Burlwood Shifter
Guards+Fenderwell Trim
PIAA16969
Smokers Package
My Car
05-08-2001, 12:11 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
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I wonder if that "Bose BassBox subwoofer" would fit the cls, but judging from bose it most likely isn't too bassy anyway.
I like the new rsx. I had an integra, still loved the matador red color (wish the cls was that color red), and the look of the front end. The integra was too low to the ground, glad they raised it a bit in the rsx.
I think once again Acura is targeting the wrong group of potential buyers.
------------------
2001 Satin Silver CL Type S.
No Navi, PIAA 19169, Comptech Sways, Century Childseat, Mudguards.
I like the new rsx. I had an integra, still loved the matador red color (wish the cls was that color red), and the look of the front end. The integra was too low to the ground, glad they raised it a bit in the rsx.
I think once again Acura is targeting the wrong group of potential buyers.
------------------
2001 Satin Silver CL Type S.
No Navi, PIAA 19169, Comptech Sways, Century Childseat, Mudguards.
05-08-2001, 12:18 AM
#23
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by charliemike:
It's only plagarism if he makes money off it =)</font>
It's only plagarism if he makes money off it =)</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-08-2001, 12:20 AM
#24
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fast_daddy_car:
I wonder if that "Bose BassBox subwoofer" would fit the cls, but judging from bose it most likely isn't too bassy anyway.
</font>
I wonder if that "Bose BassBox subwoofer" would fit the cls, but judging from bose it most likely isn't too bassy anyway.
</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-08-2001, 12:21 AM
#25
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fast_daddy_car:
I think once again Acura is targeting the wrong group of potential buyers.
</font>
I think once again Acura is targeting the wrong group of potential buyers.
</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-08-2001, 12:23 AM
#26
w.t.f., mate?
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bone_stock:
Good point. Multi billion dollar company Disney just came down hard on a small time day care for painting Mickey, Pluto, and Goofy on the side of their building. All they were trying to do was make the kids feel safe. Talk about David and Goliath!!!</font>
Good point. Multi billion dollar company Disney just came down hard on a small time day care for painting Mickey, Pluto, and Goofy on the side of their building. All they were trying to do was make the kids feel safe. Talk about David and Goliath!!!</font>
------------------
_-Phil-_!
2K1 #10,029 Satin Silver CL-S since 6/13/00 named Laetitia with Navi! Mods : XEPHYR PERFORMANCE CAI~3M Reflective Tint(37%) tint~Hiper Hibrid Plasma "Xenon" road lamps & high-beams~Uniden LRD 6599SWS Radar Detector~Shine by Meguiar's Gold Wax~Member of the Scratched Rims Club~Upgraded cupholder
~
05-08-2001, 03:26 AM
#27
Racer
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by charliemike:
It's only plagarism if he makes money off it =)</font>
It's only plagarism if he makes money off it =)</font>
As long as he has a refereence its not, but without referece it is.
------------------
-------------
Acura 2001 CL Type S, (black on black)
Acura 1996 CL (bronze on stove)
05-08-2001, 10:17 AM
#28
Suzuka Master
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actually, i don't even think it's a reference thing, i think it's a "" thing...like in high school...if you put something you found in a book within "", then you were quoting it...if you didn't, then you were plaguarizing, whether you had the source listed or not.
but that's paper documents...i dont' know how it works on the web.
but that's paper documents...i dont' know how it works on the web.
05-08-2001, 10:30 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
I disagree with that. Why are u saying that? What is wrong with the target market?
</font>
I disagree with that. Why are u saying that? What is wrong with the target market?
</font>
------------------
2001 Satin Silver CL Type S.
No Navi, PIAA 19169, Comptech Sways, Century Childseat, Mudguards.
05-08-2001, 11:17 AM
#30
Suzuka Master
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SilverKnight:
I think we have some miscommunication here. from my POV, Nova meant if you are 27 and making 60k or more, you wouldn't settle for RSX but something else that is more "mature and sophisticated" like our CL-Ss.
</font>
I think we have some miscommunication here. from my POV, Nova meant if you are 27 and making 60k or more, you wouldn't settle for RSX but something else that is more "mature and sophisticated" like our CL-Ss.
</font>
My point is exactly what SilverKnight said. if your in your 20's and you make pretty good money and usually the young crowd or people in there 20's like fast expensive cars, (atleast for me) they would settle for something a little more luxurious and a little faster. (CL-Types, 330xi,S4,CLK...)
Sorry can't speak for the older gen. people.
Didn't mean to offend the older crowd here.
JMPOV from a young ones perspective.
------------------
CL-S
White/Ebony/Navi/Spoiler/Visor/Full Bra/Mud Guards/Acura Car Cover/Tint 20%,35%,5% on Sun Roof, Rockford 250a2 Amp w/JL10w6 / K&N Drop in Filter.Polarg m-6.
Comptech Headers,Springs,Sways, Eurolite Xenon Crystal high beams.Polarg m6
gtech 0-60 6.03 w/ 438 pound load. preheader.
05-08-2001, 12:11 PM
#31
Prez & GC, .Net
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Citing Web Sources: Citing web sources is similar to citing writing pieces. The same rules apply. Although its not a full cite, it's close enough to keep him out of legal trouble. It's not like he tried to present it as his own writing folks. Geessh...picky picky. GO buy "THE BLUE BOOK" aka "A Uniform System of Citation"(any law school bookstore has it) on citing sources before jumping down someone else's throat for not citing sources properly.
BOSE Bass module: According to the latest Car and Driver, the bass sits in the middle of the spare tire...which sits underneath the truck. Interesting location. I'll have to hear it to see if it actually work.
Acura Marketing:
I agree w/ the previous statement that if Acura is trying to market this car toward the 27+ and 60k+ folks...they're just deluding themselves. I'm 29 and the next car I'll be getting will be either the TL-S or the WRX Sti or the Lancer Evo 7 when they all come out in the next year or two. Everyone knows that every HS kid and college kid is gonna run for the RSX and the Type-S variant. At least 50% of the buyers will be women too...so sorry guys, the ladies will be joining us in bidding for this car when it comes out. Most of my lady friends have already seen pictures of this car and prefer it over the Civic (which many of them were going for). I'm guessing that most buyers 27+ will be gunning for the 4 door fast sedan variants. Having kids or preparing to have kids makes that a necessity. Single males earning 60k+? Who are you kidding? They're gonna go for the BMW M3's and equivalent. Yeah...the CL Type-S is awesome...but most folks around this area (DC Metro) still prefer the status of the Bimmer. Fortunately, the more price conscious souls are still running to the CL-S.
Dizzy
------------------
1998 Red Accord EX-V6 Coupe
AEM CAI
AEM Pulleys
Denso Iridium Spark Plugs
Tokico Illuminas
Eibach Pro-Kit
Neuspeed Strut Tower Bar
Wing's West Type-R Spoiler
Phillips BlueVision bulbs
16" Yokohama AVID V4 215
Valentine One
Red "H" Badge, front and rear
BOSE Bass module: According to the latest Car and Driver, the bass sits in the middle of the spare tire...which sits underneath the truck. Interesting location. I'll have to hear it to see if it actually work.
Acura Marketing:
I agree w/ the previous statement that if Acura is trying to market this car toward the 27+ and 60k+ folks...they're just deluding themselves. I'm 29 and the next car I'll be getting will be either the TL-S or the WRX Sti or the Lancer Evo 7 when they all come out in the next year or two. Everyone knows that every HS kid and college kid is gonna run for the RSX and the Type-S variant. At least 50% of the buyers will be women too...so sorry guys, the ladies will be joining us in bidding for this car when it comes out. Most of my lady friends have already seen pictures of this car and prefer it over the Civic (which many of them were going for). I'm guessing that most buyers 27+ will be gunning for the 4 door fast sedan variants. Having kids or preparing to have kids makes that a necessity. Single males earning 60k+? Who are you kidding? They're gonna go for the BMW M3's and equivalent. Yeah...the CL Type-S is awesome...but most folks around this area (DC Metro) still prefer the status of the Bimmer. Fortunately, the more price conscious souls are still running to the CL-S.
Dizzy
------------------
1998 Red Accord EX-V6 Coupe
AEM CAI
AEM Pulleys
Denso Iridium Spark Plugs
Tokico Illuminas
Eibach Pro-Kit
Neuspeed Strut Tower Bar
Wing's West Type-R Spoiler
Phillips BlueVision bulbs
16" Yokohama AVID V4 215
Valentine One
Red "H" Badge, front and rear
05-09-2001, 12:18 AM
#33
Intermediate
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrdeeno:
that' spretty true...and the majority of cl-p owners are middle aged to old men.
</font>
that' spretty true...and the majority of cl-p owners are middle aged to old men.
</font>
------------------
'01 Naples Gold CL-P
... Just don't be the slowest wildebeast when the cheetas are chasing you...
05-10-2001, 09:54 AM
#34
Instructor
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I believe that a lot of young people will buy this car. I am 20 and make $50k/year and probably would buy it if I could not afford the CLS. But I do think that a 27 year old person making $60k/year is a little far fetched. Not to be sexist or anything but if anyone in that category did buy it, it would be a woman. JMO
------------------
White/Parchment CLS Spoiler,35% Tint, Gold emblems,Mudflaps,Moonroof Visor, Polarg M6
------------------
White/Parchment CLS Spoiler,35% Tint, Gold emblems,Mudflaps,Moonroof Visor, Polarg M6
05-10-2001, 11:17 AM
#35
Suzuka Master
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is that $60k before or after tax?
well, if i was 27 and made $60k, and had a wife and a 1 year old kid, and a mortgage payment and other loans to pay off, i'd buy an rsx over anything more expensive.
but then again, if i have a wife and 1 year old kid, i'd buy a camcord over an rsx.
but if i was single and 27, and had hefty loans to pay off, and a pretty decent apartment to pay for and not much savings, i'd buy an rsx over anything more expensive.
c'mon, we aren't thinking like regular people...there are people out there that are 27 and make $60k, but they have other expenses such as loans and food and savings and insurance and other priorities (not to mention that someone who makes $60k isn't bringing home $60k) than to buy a car that they can barely afford.
acura knows this...don't you remember that they don't directly cater to the enthusiasts?
they hit the nail on the head with the cl, how many people are on this board, and how many cl's were actually sold? we are a really small % of total sales, and we are NOT a statisically accurate representation (ie not random...we are more computer savvy than acura's target demographic).
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-10-2001).]
well, if i was 27 and made $60k, and had a wife and a 1 year old kid, and a mortgage payment and other loans to pay off, i'd buy an rsx over anything more expensive.
but then again, if i have a wife and 1 year old kid, i'd buy a camcord over an rsx.
but if i was single and 27, and had hefty loans to pay off, and a pretty decent apartment to pay for and not much savings, i'd buy an rsx over anything more expensive.
c'mon, we aren't thinking like regular people...there are people out there that are 27 and make $60k, but they have other expenses such as loans and food and savings and insurance and other priorities (not to mention that someone who makes $60k isn't bringing home $60k) than to buy a car that they can barely afford.
acura knows this...don't you remember that they don't directly cater to the enthusiasts?
they hit the nail on the head with the cl, how many people are on this board, and how many cl's were actually sold? we are a really small % of total sales, and we are NOT a statisically accurate representation (ie not random...we are more computer savvy than acura's target demographic).
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-10-2001).]
05-10-2001, 11:58 AM
#36
ACME sucks!
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mackincls:
Well, I'm 34. I guess those days of me thinking i'm still a youngin' are over. I still love me CL-S, but those reason for me buying the car was because it has a mature and sophisticated look to it. I didn't think it really appealed to the younger crowd. I just thought Novas words were a little harsh when he said anyone under 27, making 60k would be an "IDIOT" for chosing a RSX. Anyways, before I ruffle too manu feathers, have a great day!</font>
Well, I'm 34. I guess those days of me thinking i'm still a youngin' are over. I still love me CL-S, but those reason for me buying the car was because it has a mature and sophisticated look to it. I didn't think it really appealed to the younger crowd. I just thought Novas words were a little harsh when he said anyone under 27, making 60k would be an "IDIOT" for chosing a RSX. Anyways, before I ruffle too manu feathers, have a great day!</font>
------------------
2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
No Navi/No Spoiler
Competch springs
35% tint
PIAA 19169 bulbs
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The Aviation Zone
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