I wouldn't trade my 06 TL for an A4.

I agree. I think I have ended up with a decent Audi and had a bad Acura.

With that said, I will buy another Acura if they ever offer the TL in AWD or RWD. Aside from the problems I loved my CL-S.

I think some of you have somehow overhyped Acura and when you realize what it really is, you say it's overhyped. If you went into it knowing full well what Acura is as a brand, you wouldn't consider it overrated.

Also, you say you can't look at the last generation Audi, well, if that's the case, you can't look at the last generation TL.

2001 CL-S

nope.

The 2.0T is a waste. If you wan't to reflash it, fine, however there are bolted TL-S putting down 270+...but stock for stock, the 2.0T is a turd. I raced one a week ago and completely demolished it, as in 3-4 cars. I didn't even realize he was still racing till I ease off and he flies by me I guess you can compare it to the TSX, in which case its still more expensive. I'm comparing similarly equiped models as well. Once you load up the Audi, the prices really start to climb. I just built a 3.2 A4 on Audi's website and it came out to roughly $41k and some change. The only A4 i'd consider over a TL-S is the S4...which is a quite a bit more.

And all this talk on reliability... My car has been in the shop two times with 40k miles. I'm sure the 2G CL/TL folks are scarred from the tranny failure, however the 3G tranny is built much better. And rattles...I'm lowered 2" on 19" wheels with 35 series tires and I don't have a single rattle Just because an extremely small fraction of TL owners complain about it on this site doesn't mean every TL ever sold has rattles. I'd much rather deal with something as simple as rattles rather than mechanical/electrical problems that plauge most german cars. I'm talking from experience as well, because we've had a BMW 7 series, Range Rover, S430, and a ML320 sport...all of those cars were built by monkies.

TL - TCO
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/acur...02910/cto.html

A4 - TCO
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/audi...82881/cto.html

But again, that generation '03 was known to have coilpack issues, just as certain CL's, TL's, accords and Odysseys's were known to have transmission problems.

I have yet to hear about an across the board coilpack issue on the B7 A4 as was the case on the previous gen you currently own.

Well that explains it then... your '01 CL, my '01 A4 - all 2001 cars suck!

A 2.0T flashed will at keep up to your "bolted" TL. And as for "bolted" do you mean modified TL's wtih only bolt on's? How much do those bolt ons run you in order to beat a 4 cylinder?

How much do you know about the 2.0T in all honesty?

Here's something to wet your whistle.... (apr reflash)

<table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="45%"><tbody><tr align="center" bgcolor="#666666"><td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="7%">Year</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="7%"> Model

</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="9%"> Engine

</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="15%">91 Octane
Chipped</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="19%">93 Octane
Chipped </td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="11%">DirectPort
Available </td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="10%"> Price

</td> </tr> <tr align="center"> <td class="text9" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom">2005-08</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="7%"> </td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom"> 2.0T

</td> <td class="text9" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="15%">232hp/273lb-ft</td> <td class="text9" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="19%">241hp/292lb-ft</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom" width="11%">Y</td> <td class="text9" valign="bottom"> $599.00

</td></tr></tbody></table>
How much torque does your TL put down again to your front wheels?

Yep still i think thats an unfair comparison. A tranny failure will keep you stuck on the side of the road.

Whereas a coilpack failure can be fixed within 10min on the spot with a $25 part. I went through a few on my 04. Then again i was modded up the gills.

And just to add, you're bragging about beating a stock 2.0T with your v6? what do you expect, your car has more torque and the cars weight about the same. That's why I was comparing the v6 model's of both cars. I chose the 2.0T for my avant because I plan on reflashing it because it'll put more power down than the v6 model after I'm done with it.

And the 2.0T is severly detuned in stock form. that's why all the guys that tune'em reflash em.

The depreciating costs are really killing audi IMO. The operation costs I think are lower than what you'd expect for a german car in all honesty. Aren't they cheaper than the operating costs of bimmer's and mercs?

Acura is not overrated IMO...I never felt that way. It has its positives and its obvious negatives as a brand...


If you ask me what is overrated, it's BMW.

<---- Slaps on flamesuit and awaits the donkeys who get offended use Aston Martin as a retort.

I think they're slightly overated too, i'd choose an audi over a bimmer. I still think an RS4 > M3.

Why would anyone use Astron Martin as a retort. Not like you ever had one.

If you think a brand is overrated/underrated then at least have some type ownership with one to be able to comment. IMO

You make it sound like I've never sat or driven a BMW before. But, if it makes you feel better, I'll try to start a thread for every car I testdrive or sample going forward, mkay?

Acura has a good resale value, decent reliability, and has done a good job of staying on the cusp of technology so far as the interior goes.

For example, it's taken a while for others to come close to the TL's navigation with voice activation.

You could just trade cars in every few months but I think the quota on how many AZine members can change their cars on a whim has been met.

I said ownership and not a test drive.

How can someone call a whole brand overrated just by a 10min test drive with one model.

Different priorities. I'm a big-time car-nut (or else I wouldn't be so keen on being a mod for Auto News)...and the time will come when I trade-in/sell-off my snowplowing CL-S.

But, in the meantime, I've got an engagement ring to pay off, recover from the DP of my house, and oh...a wedding by next summer.

Then again, how could you know? I should've started a thread...for each of those. And for each time I blow $$$$ on name-brand clothes. Or do well on stocks. Or get a promotion. Or get a raise.

Oh oops...I guess I shouldn't go into too much details about driving a 328i for a week. Danged details! Memo to me: Start thread next time.

You're being hypersensitive, Jesal. You're making it sound like I said BMW sucks...which is not what I'm saying. However, that being said, I believe the brand to be overrated. But, hang on...let me blow $40K on it first so that I can better validate myself, mkay?

My point is, you like your Acura, yes? Do you think the brand is overrated?

I also dont get why you taking cheap shots at me about making threads. I dont start new ones about my personal life, besides cars.

Also why not start a thread next time you test drive a car. It is a car forum after all.

You kidding? I'm fine with my Acura...it works. Is it a perfect car? Hell no.

And where the fuck did you get the idea I was taking a cheapshot at you? You decided to respond right away to my thoughts of a BMW being overrated and took it as personal...

Dude, what is there to say that isn't already said for the current gen. 3-series? Nice drive...I enjoyed it. Um...what else is there to say that hasn't been posted...?

I start threads if I think it's in good fun...otherwise, if I'm not amused/interested in it, I'm not planning to.

WTF, i didnt take it personal. Only thing i took personal was you commenting about making threads about everything. I was thinking you were aiming that to me as if i do that all the time. Maybe I do but its mostly car related which i dont see whats wrong with it.

If someone calls a certain brand overrated then i would like to know why. Others in this thread had personal experiences with Acura and they mentioned it in here. Which is why to them they think Acura is overrated. Which I can understand.

I dont think Acura is overrated at all. They are priced well below most and offer safe technology that is trouble free with decent performance. I like Acuras and i personally think you get what you pay for with them. Are they built as solid as an Aston Martin... doubt it but the price tag reflects that.

Course I never had an Aston so who knows.

i think of acura as a near-luxury brand. their cars reflect that, their pricing structure reflect that, and their option package reflect that, their materials reflect that. "luxury" is an idea. if everyone in the world thought garbage bags was the shiznit, our cars would be lined with garbage bag materials. clothes are a prime example of the 'luxury" idea. what makes a diesel jean worth $200 when you can get just as edgy jeans from levi's for $70? or heck, $30 at old navy? von dutch fashion glorified truckers! truckers for crying out loud! do you associate "luxury" with truckers? acura is basically levi's of cars. they got good value, nice looks, great functionality, and great utility. it was someone's idea that corinthian leather in a car would make it more exclusive, other "luxury" models followed suit. hence, people's perception that luxury is defined by something like corinthian leather upholstery...

as far as reliablity, ALL cars will have problems, some more than others. even within the brand and even within the same model line. mass manufacturing will lead to quality control problems.

between my parents, me and my sis, we've had the following cars and experiences:

78' lincoln grand marquis (bought used) - solid as a tank. drove like one too. never had mechanical problems from my recollection. dad sold it later for 800 bucks.

79' cadillac seville (bought used) - solid as a tank. saved us from death when a nissan maxima rammed us in an intersection. however, auto trunk latch always broken, had all kinds of engine problems, all kinds of electrical problems.

88' buick lesabre (bought new) - both front windows always fell out of the rails, engine would randomly die on the freeway, would randomly start when it felt like it, engine mounts broke

91' suzuki sidekick (bought used)- no problems except a leaky radiator.

92' mercedes benz 190 (bought used) - no problems. sold it within a year of ownership tho...

01' toyota highlander (bought new) - engine idle valve had to be replaced 2x, rear passenger window fell out of rail.

03' toyota corolla (bought new) - fog lights kept burning out, console tray door broke.

07' acura tsx (bought used CPO) - third brake light bulb went out.

as you can see, our family doesn't really have any brand loyalty. we've had varying degrees of success with different brands. i think ya'll just need to be balanced in your views. once you become a zealot, its hard to see outside the blinders...

Okeydokey...so, after all of that banter back and forth, ALL you were really truly asking was, "Yumchah, please present your reasons for why BMW is overrated?", correct...?

I was asking everyone for their reasons why they think a ANY brand is overrated.

I didnt quote you after all.

Well, then...so long as we're civil now.

First and foremost: the vehicle dynamics is very nice. I like the quality of the materials for the interior.

However. For the price you pay, the interior's design is meh at best. I found it rather cramped inside (sure, it's a smaller car, yes yes)...and iDrive drove me batty. And despite feeling quite different in regards to driving a FWD plodder like the CL, I found that the funness I experienced was pretty much replicated in a cheaper car with the G35...? So, hence why I feel it is overrated.

BMW 5-series? You should know already...I find the design of it, horrid. And no, I've never sat in a 6-series and etc.

The one I raced had a d-bag driver doing mini ricer flyby's next to me in traffic so I coud hear his BOV. I'm also pretty sure he had an exhaust because the one he had did not look stock, along with some license plate frame that said "____ tuning".

With just an intake and exhaust, my car dynoed 221whp/207wtq about two weeks ago at my buddies place. Trust me, I wouldve beat him without the intake and exhaust, they're not exactly huge power adders for the 3G. The exhaust barely adds 3whp and an intake gives you roughly 5whp? Not to mention im running on extremely heavy & wide 19" wheels, which cancel out any performance the I/E would have yeilded.

As far as my knowledge on the 2.0T, I don't follow them. However, comparing a reflashed turbo car to a stock car isn't really fair game IMO. Most factor cars with F/I do come underrated (335, Cobras, Cobalt SS, etc...) Yes, a reflash will really open those cars up, but modding aside, the 2.0T A4 is a dog. A more fair comparison would be the 3.2 .

It's funny. I live in the "overseas" market, and the deal here is all Honda's cost more than their Lexus (yes, sold here) and Nissan brands (sans GT-R). The thing that people know is the Honda is an extremely reliable car. These are the ones that you do not see in the junk yard. There are a lot more Toyota and Nissan cars on the used market.

People here in Japan keep Honda's for a long time, and the vast majority usually keep them more than 5 years. That can't be said for the others, where they are too much to maintain after that mark.

Do I like my Saber/TL? Yes, but the next car is going to be a Legacy GT (maybe Spec B) because I want some real HP and AWD, which is needed on roads made from coral rock. I wish Honda had a better performance sedan here, because that would be my first choice.

PS... I would buy a TL here, but that stopped with the second gen TL (Saber/Inspire). Here the Inspire is a USDM accord, and very expensive (starting at about $32K). Why can't they do an AMD TL? They have AWD Accords here (but with a weak 4 cyl).

You should have seen the great resale value of the CL-S

See that stuff i can understand. You act as if i get pissy if someone doesnt like BMWs. The way you feel about the 5series is the way I feel about the 7series.

Plus the voice activation on the BMW is terrible compared to Acura. Lets not even talk about the Navigation.

No brand is perfect.

Cool! Can we make up and hug now...? Like, um...just a manly type hug...

How bad was the resale value of the CL-S? I don't recall it being difficult for others to sell and I recall the prices staying pretty consistent with that of the TL-S of the same time period.

Mine was a 6MT and didn't have too much hassle selling it but maybe the 5ATs were a different story.

I will make a thread about it