AlanW

Does a manual transmission still have an advantage in horsepower at the wheels over the new dual clutch transmissions?

Lets say in some magic land far away, they make a dual clutch version of a TL exactly like my 06 TL 6MT. Give the dual clutch version as many speeds as would be normal, like 8 or something.

What would be differences in performance, etc. ??

TacoBello

no difference in power put down.

DCT will shift faster then you could ever imagine shifting your 6MT. If power was equal, DCT would walk your ass.

TacoBello

Scroll down to the DCT section. All will be answered.

Transmissions explained: Manual v Automatic v Dual clutch v CVT v Others

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

I'd say similar performance.

Having owned a 6MT Accord & CLS-6, I felt the 6 speed was geared perfectly for the J3x engine.

The 6MT has 12-15% drivetrain loss respectively .. I wonder what the new 8AT produces?

TacoBello

To what car are you comparing your 6MT to? and who said anything about AT? Are we reading the same initial post? I'm confused. Where am I? And where are my pants?

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Whoops, should have said 8 DCT - not AT. Mah bad bruh.

Honda's new 8 DCT has a torque converter - wonder what kind of drivetrain loss it produces vs the 6MT?

There's only so much power more gears can extract from a 230whp engine

AlanW

Haven't most designs of DCTs eliminated the torque convertor and are more or less a direct hookup like in a manual?

And I was really meaning differences in the 2 trans in cars in general, I just used my car as an example

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Honda's new 8-speed DCT uses a torque converter - SAE International

Got my information from here.

AlanW

I'm no rocket surgeon, but it seems like if there is a fluid drive torque converter there would be some loss in it.

SamDoe1

Most automatics nowadays are faster than manuals just from a gear shifting and efficiency standpoint regardless of if it's a normal AT or a DCT. The only trans out there that's slower than the manual is the sh1tty CVT.

That said, give me a manual all day every day.

Most, yes. But Honda uses the torque converter to smooth out starts (rather than using a clutch) and then locks it up shortly after the car gets moving. This not only smooths out starts but also helps with clutch life because it prevents slippage during starts. A traditional AT will use the torque converter through every gear and only lock it up after reach top gear and/or at cruising speed.

TacoBello

your original question is very vague.

not all DCTs are the same.

you make zero reference into what you are comparing.

MOST DCTs will have the same losses as a MT.

Booya4139

dont care, still want a manual... worst problem you can have is needing a new clutch vs a 5k transmission.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

While some of that is true, it's not exactly cheap replacing gear sets or synchros either

Aman

If I'm understanding this right, DCT is a bit of a misnomer for Honda's application since it uses a torque converter instead of a clutch.

Does this torque converter have the ability to completely decouple the transmission and engine? If not, does that increase wear on the synchros?

foxriderar77

manual all day, nothing more satisfying than actually shifting the gears and getting a perfect rev matched downshift. Might not be as fast as a DCT/Auto but way more satisfying. Why even buy a car if it isn't fun to drive.

SamDoe1

What? Do you guys even know what a torque converter is? It's basically a clutch/flywheel for an AT that helps during starts and between shifts. It's a viscous coupling that allows for a speed differential between the engine output shaft and the transmission input shaft (like a clutch) but instead of a wear disc, it has a viscous coupling. The Honda trans has one to do just that and then the DCT function takes over. If you drive other cars with a DCT, they feel like a teenager learning how to drive a manual when the clutch is engaging. The torque converter is basically fixing that issue and that issue alone on the Honda one since it locks up right after the car starts moving and then basically doesn't do anything other than add weight.

Saintor

For the new S4, Audi gave up their S-Tronic/DSG (DCT style) in favor of a conventional automatic.

The interest of DCT over conventional is now marginal. I spent 1600km in the Alps with a DSG/Diesel and I was surprised how rough it was.

fsttyms1

And that is a big reason honda put a torque converter in. It is there to smooth out the slow speed roughness a DCT exhibits.

Your Huckleberry

I am still amazed that my TL is faster, quite a bit faster actually, in auto vs sport shift. The computer does a great job with shift points In relation to what I'm doing with the gas pedal. I cannot do better, or even break even technically.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

...but still slower than an otherwise identical car with a 6MT.

ttribe

Legend2TL

Holy thread revival!!