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I have read all the threads about how Acura has ignored the enthusiasts and how the TLX is a glorified kitchen appliance.
I have now read the articles about the 2018 Toyota Camry and it seems as though Toyota is beating Honda/Acura to the punch. The 2018 Camry is offering a sport version with the now direct injected 3.5 liter engine, quad tailpipes, sport suspension etc.
I honestly think that if the TLX MMC has no significant changes besides cosmetics, Acura is dead in the water. I noticed lots of comments about the Kia Stinger being cool but cheap looking/associated. One needs to remember that the Genesis G70 will be it's twin, and that should destroy the TLX if the MMC stays as is. It really has all the options Acura fans truly want: rwd/awd, turbo, brembos, good looks, cool tech, etc. Will need to see how all of them drive on the road, but the future looks promising... with the sad exception of Acura if we trust the rumors. I think Acura may have been caught with it's pants down if true, its sedan sales will take a beating.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 01-11-2017 at 10:49 PM.
I honestly think that if the TLX MMC has no significant changes besides cosmetics, Acura is dead in the water. I noticed lots of comments about the Kia Stinger being cool but cheap looking/associated. One needs to remember that the Genesis G70 will be it's twin, and that should destroy the TLX if the MMC stays as is. It really has all the options Acura fans truly want: rwd/awd, turbo, brembos, good looks, cool tech, etc. Will need to see how all of them drive on the road, but the future looks promising... with the sad exception of Acura if we trust the rumors. I think Acura may have been caught with it's pants down if true, its sedan sales will take a beating.
Acura has been caught with its pants down for over 10 years now. They are the Fat guy trying to figure out why their skinny jeans wont come past their calfs. They just dont get it.
The Camry looks OK on side profile, but I am not a fan of some of the angles and I definitely do not like the Toyota/Lexus mashup grille or the Kylo Ren grille.
Good comments. BTW, I did not mean for this thread to be I the wrong section. To me the thread was meant to be about what Acura should be doing with the TLX .
Toyota lost its entire soul back in the 90s and they've never looked back. Everytime I sit in a Toyota, I can't help but think as to why so many people buy them.
Their engines generally suck compared to the competition (worse fuel economy, lower power), and they're so fucking cheap on the inside.
Toyota sold itself out decades ago, to pursue nothing but dollars.
Some angles look really cool (rear 3qtrs), and whether you are a fan of the styling or not it's at least daring, and not bland. However that front end is horrible... Car is like 85% of the way designed pretty well then the front.... same problem I have with the new Maxima.
But let's face it, Camrys always drive like Camrys, and until that changes we can't compare the two. While the TLX is soft and a little numb for an enthusiast driver, it's definitely sportier (even in fwd layouts) than the current gen (-2017) Camry/Avalon/ES. We as enthusiasts also have a hard time separating what we want and what the typical buyers want. It's the reason on BMW forums everyone who's been there for a while is trashing all the newer BMW products except for the M2, BMW went after sales (successfully) and watered down their sporting heritage to supply softer cars for the millions of non enthusiasts who just want a badge to tout. It's what Acura is trying to do too, albeit unsuccessfully, in gaining mass market appeal by being more Toyota like...
Some angles look really cool (rear 3qtrs), and whether you are a fan of the styling or not it's at least daring, and not bland. However that front end is horrible... Car is like 85% of the way designed pretty well then the front.... same problem I have with the new Maxima.
But let's face it, Camrys always drive like Camrys, and until that changes we can't compare the two. While the TLX is soft and a little numb for an enthusiast driver, it's definitely sportier (even in fwd layouts) than the current gen (-2017) Camry/Avalon/ES. We as enthusiasts also have a hard time separating what we want and what the typical buyers want. It's the reason on BMW forums everyone who's been there for a while is trashing all the newer BMW products except for the M2, BMW went after sales (successfully) and watered down their sporting heritage to supply softer cars for the millions of non enthusiasts who just want a badge to tout. It's what Acura is trying to do too, albeit unsuccessfully, in gaining mass market appeal by being more Toyota like...
hah...BMW has been doing that for well over a decade or more, gradually. I've been saying it for years. I just think all the bimmer fans are finally starting to admit it because its getting to the point of undeniable.
Still like their M cars. I even like a lot of their line up. I just don't think they have that special driving feeling they had in the 80s/90s and earlier.
hah...BMW has been doing that for well over a decade or more, gradually. I've been saying it for years. I just think all the bimmer fans are finally starting to admit it because its getting to the point of undeniable.
Still like their M cars. I even like a lot of their line up. I just don't think they have that special driving feeling they had in the 80s/90s and earlier.
Totally agree, the last non M(non Z4M/1M also) BMW that felt very BMWish was the E46 3 series, IMO... (I had an E90 and even that was good, but not quite as direct, but at least it had the right handling/ride balance when properly optioned), welp at least I still have my old E36 M3 lol
Some angles look really cool (rear 3qtrs), and whether you are a fan of the styling or not it's at least daring, and not bland. However that front end is horrible... Car is like 85% of the way designed pretty well then the front.... same problem I have with the new Maxima.
But let's face it, Camrys always drive like Camrys, and until that changes we can't compare the two. While the TLX is soft and a little numb for an enthusiast driver, it's definitely sportier (even in fwd layouts) than the current gen (-2017) Camry/Avalon/ES. We as enthusiasts also have a hard time separating what we want and what the typical buyers want. It's the reason on BMW forums everyone who's been there for a while is trashing all the newer BMW products except for the M2, BMW went after sales (successfully) and watered down their sporting heritage to supply softer cars for the millions of non enthusiasts who just want a badge to tout. It's what Acura is trying to do too, albeit unsuccessfully, in gaining mass market appeal by being more Toyota like...
Originally Posted by Sarlacc
hah...BMW has been doing that for well over a decade or more, gradually. I've been saying it for years. I just think all the bimmer fans are finally starting to admit it because its getting to the point of undeniable.
Still like their M cars. I even like a lot of their line up. I just don't think they have that special driving feeling they had in the 80s/90s and earlier.
Originally Posted by E90 Skye
Totally agree, the last non M(non Z4M/1M also) BMW that felt very BMWish was the E46 3 series, IMO... (I had an E90 and even that was good, but not quite as direct, but at least it had the right handling/ride balance when properly optioned), welp at least I still have my old E36 M3 lol
I agree on the unfortunate direction BMW has been taking. I love my E93, and my son loves his E46, but every time I get a loaner F30 from the dealership, I can't help but feel disappointed.
The Camry is only FWD correct? With that being said, I don't think the latest camry is doing anything spectacularly or special. I am sure under all that crap about sport suspension and aggressive looks it is still the plain old boring appliance camry that toyota has become famous for. However there is one thing it is doing that Acura is failing severely and that is getting people to talk and getting people's attention (for good or bad).
Other than being red and having four doors, I don't see how it's a copy
Agreed... Take away the front end, and just looking at the side profile, they both have the generic profile of what is obviously an Asian sedan.. Neither were/are trendsetting in any way.
Interesting to see the Lexus style grille making its way to Toyota. Even though it's still a Camry, it looks pretty good to me.
That said, wouldn't Toyota be competing more directly with Honda (Camry and Accord in this case)? The Accord is not as aggressively styled but certainly holds its own. I would assume Lexus vs Acura would be more accurate and in those cases, Lexus has them beat pretty handily...
Interesting to see the Lexus style grille making its way to Toyota. Even though it's still a Camry, it looks pretty good to me.
That said, wouldn't Toyota be competing more directly with Honda (Camry and Accord in this case)? The Accord is not as aggressively styled but certainly holds its own. I would assume Lexus vs Acura would be more accurate and in those cases, Lexus has them beat pretty handily...
at this point in time; Acura is the bait in the water. EVERY one is going after the chum!
Sharks, I tell you!!
I'm sure it will sell well - to me it looks like an evolutionary upgrade for the Camry.
This is going to be a fun year with new the new Camry and the upcoming redesign of the Accord. In fact I think we'll get a good idea of the direction of the next-gen TLX when the new Accord rolls out.
Other than being red and having four doors, I don't see how it's a copy
Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
Agreed... Take away the front end, and just looking at the side profile, they both have the generic profile of what is obviously an Asian sedan.. Neither were/are trendsetting in any way.
I agree.. In addition the TLX in the photo was for show, and was more aggressive looking than what the final the production version ended up looking like. Does anyone know if the Camry in the photo is what the final production version will look like?
01. The Camry’s final exterior design started as a two-inch sketch in Cartabino’s notebook. Seriously, he has the notebook locked in a desk drawer.
02. Cartabino went to Japan for 18 months to work on the car. He says he now intimately understands the company and believes that the Camry wouldn’t look as good as it does had he not gone across the Pacific.
03. Toyota designed the XLE model first, and it ended up being more aggressive than the outgoing XSE model. So Toyota decided to dream up completely new front- and rear-end designs for the new XSE model, which is even more aggro.
04. The XSE’s rear wing is one-third the height of the outgoing XSE’s spoiler. Toyota wanted this new Camry to have a more “premium … European” feel.
05. No one thought the Camry’s blacked-out roof would happen. But somehow, it slipped through the concept phase to production. (And we’re happy it did.)
06. Oh, and that black roof is a serious pain to do. While Toyota first tried to do the roof in vinyl wraps, they ended up needing to use black paint with a blue-metallic base to get the finish right. The Camry has come off the production line, and the roof has to be taped off and sprayed separately.
07. A team from Calty designed the final mock-up for interior in six weeks. The team from Toyota’s SoCal-based Calty design research center went to Japan to draw, model, and build a last-minute full interior, which wowed executives.
08. Design and engineering teams worked together all day, every day. CEO Akio Toyoda wouldn’t have it any other way as Toyota works to break down disconnected “chimney” development in order to get everyone on the same page.
09. The “combustion design” of the four-cylinder engine is all new. The 2.5-liter inline-four is completely reimagined, from the block out.
10. The trunk lid opens just past vertical. That way you don’t hit your head when you’re loading in bags, groceries, whatever.
11. The hybrid has the same trunk space as the standard Camry. Toyota expects hybrid sales to be 10 to 12 percent of all Camry sales.
12. The hybrid also has better weight distribution and balance than even the XSE model. Masato Katsumata says it is his favorite Camry for spirited driving, more so than the V-6 model.
13. “American customers love the V-6.” According to Masato Katsumata, it’s the only reason the V-6 stuck around; it should represent less than 10 percent of Camry sales.
14. The Camry almost had totally different headlights. Some pending production issues near the very of development necessitated an alternate, last-minute design for a headlight.
15. The all-new chassis allows for more efficient building in the factory. More components, like suspension parts, can be bolted to the chassis before the platform is mated to the body.
16. The Camry has all-new fonts, inside and out. Exterior and interior design teams made up new typefaces for the Camry so that absolutely everything on the sedan felt different.
17. The Camry has some of the thinnest A-pillars Toyota has been able to produce. “Forward visibility is amazing,” says Cartabino. “It’s not so claustrophobic.”
18. The rear-door apertures are larger than the outgoing car’s. Made possible by moving the roof peak and rear wheels back a bit.
19. The front-facing camera couldn’t be anywhere else but exactly where it is. Moving it would’ve meant nixing the surround-view system, so instead the design team redesigned the front grille in one day, better integrating the camera into the exterior.
20. “If you close your eyes, it drives like a European car.” Cartabino drove the Camry at Toyota’s proving ground in Arizona and said the car is very much improved, especially its steering feel and suspension rebound. We can’t wait to get behind the wheel ourselves.
Last edited by justnspace; 01-13-2017 at 04:50 PM.
Ive often wondered the same thing. In fact Im going to see my buddy tomorrow who is a GM of a local Acura dealership to discuss the Type R. I will definitely be bringing this up.
Prior to leasing my infiniti I did test drive a 2015 Camry V6 and I was very unimpressed with the overall driving dynamics and quality of the vehicle itself. For example, the doors felt paper thin, a lot of road noise on the highway, and just an overall cheap feeling interior. Other then that, at least it looked decent. I really hope that the quality matches its looks this time around, and maybe I will consider it when its time for another car.
I work in midtown Manhattan so expect to see these in droves as yellow cabs with a big black T on the doors soon enough. Nothing dilutes a car's image more than it's over representation as a service vehicle. But I'll probably get a feel for its ride quality when I have to shuttle to/from Laguardia on a business trip.
Even KIA is giving what the customer wants with the new STINGER. Acura is ruled by accountants instead of car enthusiasts.
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Acura has been caught with its pants down for over 10 years now. They are the Fat guy trying to figure out why their skinny jeans wont come past their calfs. They just dont get it.
Even KIA is giving what the customer wants with the new STINGER. Acura is ruled by accountants instead of car enthusiasts.
And the accountants made the $150-200K NSX?
I won't say that it is because of the bean counters.... their cars are always packed, value-wise. At the risk of being sexist, I'd say it is a femal-ization of the styling.
But the 2009-2014 TL and TSX designers were also clearly blind! That beak also killed them.
Hi,
Sorry about bring the topic about a Toyota, Toyota, Toyota~~~~.
I never thought of I would see a Toyota Toyota Toyota. even for my car searching period (I keep looking at the cars, ever I have one I love), never checked out any Toyota cars.
When I saw the Auto show about 2018 Camry coming in the late summer, I was stunned
1. 8 speed auto is standard for all trims except hybrid. (consider Honda shitty transmissions, I think, at least Toyota's gearbox should be reliable). I hate when I was driving on the back road with little up hill, my 12 TL up shits to fifth gear, the judder and shaking come from TC, giving me the falling apart feeling. I need to have my right foot learn how to hit accelerator to let tranny know when to shit. Last night I am pissed off with that 6 speed auto. I shout at my TL what the piece of junk you are when I was driving~~~.
2. 3.5 v6 with D4S injection, pretty much produce 290+ hp and 268 around toruqe, which is very appreciated. consider Toyota's v6 has been using at several models even Lexus, it should be never dying. but may lack of spirit like vetc.
3. Quad exhaust for v6, looks good
4. double wishbone for rear suspension. looks like they want to build a sportier Camry now. could at least have same driving dynamic as current accord sport. Think about that Honda no more offers double wishbone, even Acura. shame
5.Exterior and Interior design looks fantastic, for exterior, it may be subjective, but for interior, it surprises me. every time when I hop into my friend's current gen camry, I want to throw up with the interior.
6. they said best mpg in the market comparing to competitors, 8 Speed shouldnt be bad on gas.
7.New Platform, I do not how good this platform is. but consider Honda is going to use civic's platform to share with 10 gen accord and crv. WTF. Means that, future TLX may also run on the civic chassis. I am laughing~~~. I want to beat shit out of Honda product manager. they are fucking arrogant on their product and sales.
8. Holy cow, I wrote that much for a Camry?
The Camry is only FWD correct? With that being said, I don't think the latest camry is doing anything spectacularly or special. I am sure under all that crap about sport suspension and aggressive looks it is still the plain old boring appliance camry that toyota has become famous for. However there is one thing it is doing that Acura is failing severely and that is getting people to talk and getting people's attention (for good or bad).
I think 8 speed as standard on 2.5 and 3.5 can beat shit out of Acura and accord
01-11-2017, 10:02 PM
to 2.0Toys and alikes. 
05. No one thought the Camry’s blacked-out roof would happen. But somehow, it slipped through the concept phase to production. (And we’re happy it did.)
09. The “combustion design” of the four-cylinder engine is all new. The 2.5-liter inline-four is completely reimagined, from the block out.
15. The all-new chassis allows for more efficient building in the factory. More components, like suspension parts, can be bolted to the chassis before the platform is mated to the body.
