oonowindoo

what is heated seat?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Something folks in Los Angeles would never use.

Christopher.

I was ready to buy 2018 Accord 2.0T Sport on the spot right then, if only it had leather seats... So then I went to the Acura dealer and tried the TLX - SOLD.

00TL-P3.2

I'm plenty happy with the heated cloth seats in my F150. Cloth v leather isn't a deal breaker for me.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

What drives me nuts regarding the whole manual transmission/trim level thing is, what makes some companies think just because some of us want a manual transmission we also want a stripped car? In this day and age, folks who want/demand manual transmissions are often paying the same or even a premium for the privilege of a third pedal under the dash, and many of us also want to be able to include other premium options. Maybe the new TLX based upon the 10G Accord will rectify this situation and offer high end options and a stir-your-own shift lever.

svtmike

Maybe with the level of system integration in modern cars it is just easier to leave features out than to reengineer them around a transmission whose mind cannot be read.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

And here I thought leather seating had no relationship to either the type of transmission or for that matter, the vehicle's weight.

FWIW, I completely get the argument when it comes to things like, remote start and self park; but how many Drivers (as in folks who stir their own) do you know who want such crap on their cars?

Black Tire

Since KIA has their STINGER with RWD...wouldn't it be logical to make the next Accord RWD with all these new Horsepower?

Black Tire

Just wait for the tuners get their hands on the new Accord...we may see Accords with 400-500 HP???

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Highly unlikely if for no other reason than the packaging efficiencies from FWD are quite substantial. This and 99.8% of the Accords out there are purchased for their capabilities as a generic sedan and not for the performance potential.

SamDoe1

Wait, so you just wanted leather seats? You know you could have just bought an Accord that comes with leather right? Having a MT was obviously not a dealbreaker for you so why not get the EX-L or Touring if you liked it so much?

This I agree with. The Germans are doing it right and selling it as a no cost option but that really fits in with their production model.

Honda doesn't do the same thing and instead sells trim levels instead of options. It's cheaper for Honda to make set trim levels with set engines/equipment which is why they do it. I bet all the wiring is the same in every car though. You could likely yank the leather seats out of an EX-L and drop them in a Sport without much issue.

At this point I don't think people who want manuals still think manuals have any performance advantage over an automatic. You buy it for the fun, that's about it. If your idea of fun is speed, then get the auto. If your idea of fun is row your own then accept the performance penalty and call it good. Modern autos are quite good and far superior to the slush boxes of old. Modern dual clutch autos are even better.

None for the self parking garbage, I hate that crap. Remote start is REALLY handy in MN though. It's really cold out and helps to at least get the seat warmers going before you get in the car. I understand why MT's will never have it and have accepted it as such.

SamDoe1

It'll never happen. The entire design of the whole car would have to be restarted. Honda hasn't made a car that's not FWD based since the S2000 and probably won't until if/when the new S2000 debuts. Even then, it may be engine to drive the fronts and electric at the rear. All the Acuras, sans NSX, are also all FWD based.

That'll make for some epic torque steer...

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

The thing about remote start is it encourages folks to start their cars and let them idle. In extremely cold weather that is absolutely the worst thing one can do for the engine. Back when I worked for Mercedes we had to rebuild the engine of the 560SEL we had sold to the U.N. at only 22,000 miles. Why? Too much idling following cold starts; even with synthetic oil that engine had sludged up so much it died of oil starvation.

SamDoe1

Well first of all, the 560SEL is something from the 70's and comes with the technology of that era too. Second, I agree completely. I don't sit and let it run for a long time though. I basically hit the start button when I can visually see the thing in the lot and let the seats and steering wheel heat up before I get in. It runs for maybe a minute or two before I start driving. I only start it for long periods when it's incredibly cold out like last week up north where the air temp was -25F. Then I started it and let it run while I loaded our shit in the trunk.

Also, lifetime warranty FTW.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

No, not quite that old, the 560SEL in question was a W126 from 1991 and was only five years old when we needed to yank the motor (it was so bad we debated whether to put in a new long block or rebuild the poor beast).

SamDoe1

Damn, didn't realize the run for those was that long.

TacoBello

Yeah so... you'll never have that issue with a modern J series engine. There are countless people in canada or the northern US with car starters on their Honda V6s, and to date, I've seen zero that have ever died or even come close to dying because of cold idling.

the beauty with a Honda V6, versus that 1991 Benz... all you have to do is rev that bitch to the moon a few times and it will keep shit from building up sludge, etc. Something tells me that Benz engine was rarely pushed past 3000rpm, in a car from over a quarter century ago. You're equating stuff from decades gone by to modern tech. It doesn't work that way.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Impressive! Wonder how it drives.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

No, not at all true. The 560SEL in question was frequently used on a track to teach the chauffeurs emergency driving skills should the UN Secretary-General's life be threatened. During the class the engine spent much of its time up in red-line territory.

Shadow2056

Just drove an EX-L Accord 2.0T this morning. 1 bar of boost. 14.5psi. Had the pedal half way down and it was trying to break traction. This thing hauls! I can see people upping the boost and getting in the 375-400 range with intake and exhaust mods.

charliemike

I like the Sport more than the EX-L for a few reasons but not having leather on the Sport is ridiculous.

oonowindoo

Only rest of the market thinks like you.... fortunately, the majority of the buyers have more common sense.

oonowindoo

It takes more than that.... i mean 100 crank HP is not hard to get with boost... but it still take $$, not as much as N/A engines obviously to get reliable HPs.

SamDoe1

Agreed. Not a deal breaker for me though. The heated seats definitely are a deal breaker. I wouldn't buy a car without them. Heated steering wheel is an even bigger plus.

oonowindoo

To be honest, i would much prefer non-leather materials here in LA.... but red cloth just looks straight up ghetto..

Leather makes it cold in the winter and hot in the summer.... and i mean i honestly could not tell they are actually more comfortable than non leather. My ass can't tell with a layer of pants over it.

TacoBello

well, that benz was a hunk of junk, apparently. No other way to describe it. You're not going to ruin your engine by idling it. Seriously, I have friends who will idle their Integras, STis, Lexus', Infiniti's, etc. until they are at full operating temperature, every winter. Yep. Idle for up to 30 minutes. Every time they drive. And they've never had any issues whatsoever, related to any sort of engine failure or damage. I know for at least one of the Integras, the B17 engine was ripped open at one point and she was as clean as can be. Zero sludge build up, anywhere. But then again, he's also hitting VTAK all day, every day, once that sucker is warmed up. And that engine was produced in 1992, lol. RPM help keep your engine clean.

To me, its either there was something wrong with that engine right from the get go, it's an old design prone to sludge build up, or it's just an unreliable MB- no big surprise. Though, I thought back then they were still considered uber reliable. I have no idea.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. Idling engines is the absolute worst thing you can do to them.

Shadow2056

I normally let my TL warm up every morning for at LEAST 15min. Especially in the winter time. During the summer time, less time because its warmer outside of course. I never had any issues with letting it idle. There have been SOME people that have said that the fuel gets past the rings and washes them out over time. But I've yet to hear anyone say that about any imports.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Fifteen minutes is about fourteen and a half minutes too long. I'm betting if you cold start your car, let it idle for fifteen minutes, and then take an oil sample for UOA analysis, the percentage of fuel in the oil will be well beyond tolerance.

Shadow2056

You're actually encouraged to let your car warm up to operating temps before driving it. This lets the oil, and other fluids, warm up and circulate completely through the engine(during cold months). Letting it warm up for 30 seconds is pointless. If it was so horrible, remote start systems wouldn't have timers set at 5-8min.

Back on topic though:
So what's the deal on the power numbers? 300tq but it's rated at 276tq?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Please provide references for an authoritative source which "encourages" long warm ups. Here is a comment from Honda (from my Owner's Manual):

A cold engine uses more fuel than a warm engine. It is not necessary to "warm-up" a cold engine by letting it idle for a long time. You can drive away in about a minute, no matter how cold it is outside. The engine will warm up faster, and you get better fuel economy. To cut down on the number of "cold starts," try to combine several short trips into one.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

That's just for creature comforts, like warming up the interior.
most modern cars have their catalytic converter coming right off the heads for extreme efficiency, it's best to get in the car and drive it under 3k RPM until it is up to operating temps.

Shadow2056

Car experts, certified techs, and other car enthusiast. If you're going to strictly by the manual, at one point, Honda said not to change your oil before 10,000 miles. How long do you go between oil changes now?


Found this dyno vid from Hondata on the 1.5T. Seems Honda is hiding numbers. But for good reason.


199ft-lb tq. Crank is rated at 197tq. So it's actually putting more power to the crank than Honda says.

SilentWrath

You don't have to worry about sludge build up from cold start idling. You do have to worry about fuel wash on the cylinder walls though.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, excess fuel in the oil can and often lead to sludge buildup.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Epic fail of a response.

nist7

I'm just here for the 2.0T and how impressive it is. The massive increase in torque is great and a nice welcome to all...plus the efficiency of the turbo helps with MPG and hence why probably not more bigger and bigger NA motors.

And with porsche going ALL-turbo in their line up and whatnot...it seems like pretty much everyone is going to go turbo in the future? Would be an interesting trend....

oonowindoo

"Warming up" is not needed for moderns cars... as long as you dont WOT 5 secs after a cold start, i think it does not make it better or worse. That also means waste of time.

Long period of idle is not good for cars, i think we all know that. but 2-3 minutes of warm up in freeze temp is not a bad idea since it gives your car time to provide some hot air in the cabin and let the window defrost a bit... 15 mins is ridiculous.

Shadow2056

Same here. A lot of manufactures are going for the turbo option. Chevy has them in their Sonics and Cruises. Ford has them in their Fusions(certain trim levels). Dodge/Chrysler has them in their Dart(well...HAD them. Lol). Wasn't there talk of Nissan having them in their Versa? Acura has had them in their RDX for a while. None of their cars though. Now Honda has them in the CR-V, Civic, and Accord.


Well I'll admit, might be wrong. But never had any issues over letting it idle. And no. OMG no don't WOT after starting a car up. Lol.

oonowindoo

You are not going to have any issues... not for a LONG LONG time. Unless you are still running on carburetors.
But just FYI, read the link below about idling.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.fc18681e84f6
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weath...-life/55447779