Crazy Bimmer

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Forced-induction fisticuffs, with combatants from America and Germany.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...cadillac-cts-v



It’s tough to be the king. Sit upon a throne long enough and someone’s bound to come along and try to knock you off—as was the case in the summer of 2008 when Cadillac released its all-new CTS-V to challenge the nearly 4-year-old sports sedan king, the BMW M5 (2009 Cadillac CTS-V vs. 2008 BMW M5 SMG). It was a historic moment that has helped to redefine Cadillac’s image. GM’s luxury division made no bones about it in 2008, as it specifically developed the CTS-V to knock the 2005–2010 E60 M5 off its pedestal. BMW graciously rose to the challenge and fought it out with the upstart on the racetrack, the BMW driven by Bill Auberlen and the CTS-V by John Heinricy. Not surprisingly, the CTS-V narrowly edged out the M5. If it hadn’t, we suspect someone in Cadillac’s engineering department would have been fired. Fast forward and BMW is now ready for some payback with its new F10 M5.




This time, however, we’ve skipped inviting the pro drivers in favor of driving ourselves. We wrangled up the first manual-transmission BMW M5 in the U.S. and took it to Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch in Pahrump, Nevada, where the CTS-V—now in its fourth year—stoically waited to get its clock cleaned. Turnabout is fair play, and the boys at Cadillac know it; it’s put up or shut up with these two. As icing on the cake, we did some back-road driving and then performed acceleration testing on the 7-speed MDCT-equipped M5 for good measure. On track, it’s all about the 6-speed manuals and an apples-to-apples comparison brawl that left these two blacker and bluer than when they arrived.


Just like the last go-around, the CTS-V is black and little has changed in the time since its introduction. Nothing, at least, that should significantly affect its track performance. It’s a seductive devil with a roaring supercharged 6.2-liter pushrod V-8 combined with the conventional luxury trappings of any modern Cadillac. In short, it’s a 4-door Corvette with ventilated bucket seats.

A quick scan of the data reveals that the M5 has smacked the CTS-V over the head and retaken the throne with a lap time that bettered the CTS-V’s by 1.43 seconds. A crushing blow for sure, and if you’ve already skipped ahead to evaluate the points, something might seem amiss since the point split between these two is less than one. It’s because of the subjective metrics where we rated the Cadillac higher primarily because it remains truer to the concept of a spirited sports sedan.

Having been created specifically to rival the previous-generation BMW M5, the Cadillac CTS-V shares many of that car’s fundamental qualities, but wherever possible the Cadillac team tried to improve the total package. This is particularly evident in our test car, which is a top-of-the-line specimen. Loaded with Black Diamond Tricoat paint, Recaro seats and suede steering wheel and shift knob, it’s ready to strut its 556 bhp and demonstrate what 551 lb.-ft. of torque can do to some unsuspecting Michelin Pilot Sport tires. It’s a sedan that tries hard to drive like a smaller and lighter car. For the most part, it succeeds, splitting the difference between comfort and sport well.



Without driver restraint, the tires can vaporize in an instant. The V is just so eager to run, it’s hard to drive it in a civil manner. Even on back roads, it begs to let its supercharger sing. The manual transmission welcomes high-revving downshift blips and allows for no-lift up-shifts that not only provide superb forward thrust, but wow passengers with sheer brutality. There’s a race car under this mass of leather, wood and steel eager to be let out. Executive Editor Patrick Hong particularly likes the brakes that are superbly responsive lap after lap, imparting the utmost in confidence.

If you’ve been keeping tabs you may have realized that Tommy Milner in the base 425-bhp Corvette Coupe from our February Corvette Fever test posted a 1:23.50 lap time at this same track, and that’s 1 full second slower than the CTS-V we just ran, and I’m not Tommy, underscoring the comment that this is a 4-door Corvette.



The Cadillac CTS-V is fabulous, performing like a sports car while purporting to be a luxury sedan. Does it have shortcomings? Yes, we found the navigation system to be showing its age and the wheels could be shod with better rubber. The tires were superb at the time of introduction; in fact, they matched what the BMW M5 rolled on. But BMW has upped the ante with Michelin Pilot Super Sports, a sticky new tire that clearly has given the performance edge to the new M5. Nevertheless, the Bavarian is numb and quiet in comparison to the verve and vigor that is the CTS-V. If you secretly want a Corvette, but need a sedan, the Cadillac CTS-V is your car.

When you get right down to it, the M5 isn’t what it used to be, and that’s immediately clear when you open the trunk. You’ll need spelunking gear to explore its depths. The new M5 is longer, wider and heavier, but amazingly, it performs better too. That performance is achieved with uncharacteristic isolation. The world is tuned out from the inside of the new M5, to the point that even engine noise must be enhanced with the audio system. It all makes for an uncomfortable silence.





After the initial hot laps in the M5, we were unimpressed. It feels ponderous in tight corners and the chassis only provides a modicum of communication, but surprise, the very first lap time in the M5 demolished the CTS-V’s. Feeling fast is truly not the same as being fast. The best example of exactly how isolated the driver is from the road are the brakes. Massive calipers clamp on floating rotors when decelerating from 110 mph down the back straight, the ABS is fully invoked and there is nothing felt. No pulsations in the brake pedal, no yaw resistance in the superbly thick steering wheel, and only a hint at the tires’ grip limit coming through the seat of the pants. To drive the M5 fast requires trust in the electronics and being sensitive to the gentlest of feedback in the steering wheel and chassis. Where the CTS-V does little to hide its performance-car roots, the M5 buries them under a mound of opulent isolation. We didn’t know it was possible to do that!





Outside of the track, the M5 was heavenly. Its 560-bhp twin-turbo V-8 packs a walloping 500 lb.-ft. of torque that starts at an amazingly low 1500 rpm. It dices traffic better than a Ginsu at work on a boiled carrot. The numbers don’t show it, but the CTS-V simply can’t compete with that broad torque curve.

As has become the M way, there are myriad adjustments to change the dampers, the steering effort and throttle response, so why not one to turn up the engine noise inside the car? In contrast, the CTS-V is simplicity itself with its 2-mode Magnetic Ride Control suspension and 3-mode stability system. Thankfully, in the BMW you can call up all your preset preferences on two steering-wheel-mounted M buttons. I naturally set one for full race, with the stability disabled, and everything set to max performance, including the head-up display that showed a full-color set of shift lights—a beautiful thing, if not as Knight Rider-themed as the trick light tracers on the CTS-V’s analog tachometer.





We’re ignoring the 7-speed dual-clutch transmission in our analysis. It’s a no-cost option and only makes the M5 better. As much as we like manual transmissions, it’s hard to argue with the MDCT and its blistering acceleration numbers. We can only theorize how much quicker it would make the M5 on the track, maybe a half-second or more. But for the purist, the 6-speed is the thing of dreams. These traditional gearboxes work equally well in both cars, yet like most things in the M5, it feels a little softer than you might want for an M model.

And that pretty much sums up the M5: It’s been refined. And for that we’re thankful for the CTS-V and its uncouth raucousness. However, if luxury sport sedan means quiet, comfortable and fast, then the M5 is an absolute must. The M5 has begun a new era of performance that refuses to sacrifice comfort. Long live the king.







Sometimes a car is slower than it feels, and other times it’s faster. This is one of the latter. The CTS-V is immensely capable and provides the feedback we’ve come to expect from a sports sedan. But we’ve learned what a superb sports sedan should feel like from the BMW M5. So here’s the monkey wrench that BMW has hit us over the head with: The newest M5 has lost much of that feel as it has been made more comfortable. But in the process of isolating the driver from the road, BMW engineers have made the car much quicker. Take a look at the data and see how they did it.

A - For starters, the M5 powers across the starting line and achieves a 5-mph advantage into the first corner. This is partly due to the CTS-V’s hitting the top of 3rd and needing a shift to 4th briefly.

B - The difference in this off-camber corner is grip. The M5, with its custom Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires, provided 0.07g more lateral grip than the CTS-V could on its older, smaller and less tacky Michelin Pilot Sports. We can guess that the next evolution of the CTS-V will include updated rubber.

C - A long 2-3 shift in the M5 delays entry to the tightest corner of the track; however, it stops quicker and pulls harder out of the corner than the CTS-V. From the driver’s seat, the M5 pushes through the corner while the CTS-V cuts a balanced slice through the apex. Thus, it’s a surprise that the M5 is so much quicker. We’ll chalk it up to the BMW’s Active M differential and tires.

D - A short shift here before a gut-checking dip is necessary. Each sedan takes it well, with their respective electronically adjustable dampers stabilizing the landing. But it’s the M5’s stability that allows it to carry more speed into this fast right-hander with a rise to the apex at the crest.

E - At the crest, the M5 is pulling 1.05g, a significant 0.10g more than the CTS-V. This allowed the BMW to open up a big gap. Here, even though the M5 feels stable, the CTS-V isn’t afraid to yaw, and requires its driver to keep hands at the ready for when it does.

F - With similar speeds down the straight, it’s no surprise that braking is important. The nod here goes to the CTS-V with more predictable braking manners. The decreasing-radius turn that follows is notoriously unfriendly to a car that understeers. The M5 requires its driver to be painfully patient, while the CTS-V can get on the gas much earlier. But the grip of the M5 keeps the fight close, only yielding a hundredth of second.

G - The CTS-V is able to eke out an extra 2.5 mph down the short chute thanks to its advantage in segment F. When it gets to the tight left, though, the BMW pulls a surprisingly high 1.11g, which is again 0.10g higher than the CTS-V. Are we sensing a pattern here?

H - Just as these cars have different levels of grip, they also require different racing lines. The CTS-V prefers the tighter line, with emphasis on its ability to shorten distances with tidy steering. The M5 is all about opening up a corner and late apexing. Patience is hugely rewarded once the go pedal hits the floor.

I - The tighter corner doesn’t favor the M5’s extra grip as much as we’d have thought. It has only a 0.03g advantage, and that lets the CTS-V keep pace.

J - The Cadillac navigates this high-speed right-hander better than the M5, but can’t keep the lead due to the overwhelmingly wide torque curve of the M5. The BMW just pulls amazingly hard from any rpm.

F23A4

While I will admit that the M5 peaked with the E39 in terms of being a driver's car (and certainly something I would have preferred when I was back in my 20s), the F10 definitely appears to be a sports sedan for my now 40-something sensibilities.

neuronbob

I saw the video for this comparo a few days ago. I salute the M5 and thank BMW for continuing the sport sedan horsepower wars. Now Cadillac will have to step up again to kick the Germans' asses.

Is this the best time to be an auto enthusiast or what?

BTW, I would still take a CTS-v and $40k any day of the week over the M5. If money were no object, though, I would have BOTH in my garage.

Crazy Bimmer

Yep, no one can ever argue that the CTV-S is not a bargain!

Its not a 40k difference though....$25k difference according to this comparison.

pttl

and

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

25K can buy a lot of track day car.

MTEAZY

Interdesting. I will take the M6 with a side of C63 sedan.

Hapa DC5

I love both cars. Neither would be kicked out of bed. Add an E63 to the mix too..

Costco

While the CTS-V was once my favorite sedan of all time, the F10 M5 has unseated it from its throne. Still is an amazing bargain any way you look at it. The M5 is just too captivating.

HBaJ

The only thing more amusing than the article are the idiots posting about it on Bimmerpost.



Why bother

Saintor

One thing to add.

F80 M3


The F10 M5 doesn't seem right to me; too huge.

g37guy01

If money were no object, there are other cars I would rather have in the garage. Price independent though the m5 first from this pick.

F23A4

If I weren't budget conscious nor income 'constrained', the F10 M5 would be the lone sports sedan in my garage and parked in between a Nissan GT-R Black Edition and a Cayenne Turbo.

Anyway, I love the V and it never fails to catch my eye when one drives by. However, my epicurean leanings incline me towards the M5 and the Bimmer marque in general.

Costco

really?

Sometimes the extent of peoples' arrogance makes me just laugh. They think they own a Ferrari or something.

Hapa DC5

I'd like to punch that guy in the throat.

Hapa DC5

Jeez this almost makes me want to slum around in a V after reading that thread...

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

I'm with Saintor. The M5 is just too big.

Who cares if it's a second or two quicker than the CTS-V on the track? I'm too poor to track a $65K vehicle anyway. Also, the M5 may be a more comfortable car for daily driving, but for normal people this is where all of their driving is done. I like the idea of feeling like I'm in a sporty car when I'm driving a sporty car, even when driving to work.

Also, I loooove the chiseled body of the CTS-V. The M5 is far from ugly (nice looking in fact), but it's predictable exterior design is nothing to drool over either.

Crazy Bimmer

I think all cars are headed in that direction where few gadgets can completely change the personality of the car.

Which is nice about the M5 it seems, it can be a comfortable cruiser yet change on the fly to be a sporty track star. Its like having two cars in one.

I will bet my balls that the next CTS-V will have the same concept.

subinf

Awesome

HBaJ

What's even worse are the guys applauding him. I really do like the F10, as much as it may not be a driver's car anymore, but that being said..I cannot wait to see what the 3rd Gen V has in store as Bob said before.

Hapa DC5

Yeah I know what you mean. My step dad only drives BMWs. He ED his previous 3er and 5er. My mom and him were trying to schedule their Euro trip around his F10 purchase, not gonna happen. His dealer told him that they can change a car to his specs on the line, but he's still looking at a September delivery if he orders now.

We were out test driving the 535 and 550 two weeks ago, the cars felt much more luxurious, less communicative than his E39. I told him we should go drive an M56 or E550 and he looked at me like I'm crazy lol. I still really like the F10s, but this generation just isn't as exciting or pure as they used to be.

He's not a BMW snob so to speak, he pays cash for his cars and drives them until they hit 120K+, always Dinan serviced, and super clean, but guys like the one you quoted are a straight up joke and only help to enforce the stereotype about BMW drivers.

The 550i w/m sport pack in Space Grey was the car we were test driving I would've just bought off the lot, but it was auto and he is going to order a manual 550i. I'm just glad I get to drive it even if we're 3+ months out lol.

Crazy Bimmer

What car isnt getting "softer" with each generation.

Hell people even say the new 991 feels softer than the 997.

I dont like it as much as most of you, but it pleases the masses which is what these manufacturer are after.

HBaJ

Yeah, my dad is also picking up a 535 X-Drive in the fall, likely a low mileage E60 though, the deals on them are unreal. There's a huge difference between brand loyalty and simple snob/douchery.

Crazy Acura- I don't think they're all getting softer but definitely more "numb" the 991 is a great example, because (not that I've driven it) them simply switching from hydraulic to electric steering changes the entire dynamic of the car. It's the little things that make a big difference.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I love the new M5 from a styling perspective. I hate that they recreate the exhaust sound in the cabin.

mmafighta

artificially enhanced

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I don't see what the big fuss is about what he posted. I agree on what he said about the v's styling. It was designed in europe by europeans just like the new buicks and pretty much any "american car by name" that is now getting good reviews. The ford focus is another.

Americans just love taking credit for others work just because their money paid the europeans to design it.

His last 2 comments are a little out of line but what do you expect from human beings, no bias?

We need engine sound through the speakers and an air horn on the roof cause soon enough cars won't make any noise.

I also disagree about this being the best time for auto enthusiasts. Cars now drive themselves and noone buys manual. That is the opposite of an enthusiast in my mind. Plus with overpopulation, worse traffic laws, traffic, construction, speed cameras etc. you have to take your car to a track to really drive it. I doubt many people in the US will buy a m5 or v and ever go to a track. These cars are for posers.

mmafighta

I agree! Waiting for the new m3's to arrive, so the e90 m3 prices drop farther already...But I doubt it will, considering everybody wants one, and they hold their value quite well.

HBaJ

Okay throw out the last two comments, when you open up your statement with "Forgive me for being a snob, but it's a fucking Cadillac." do you expect an open-minded answer? You should watch the videos of the ATS being developed, a team of Americans in Germany, it's not what you would call outsourcing. Does that mean Porsche shouldn't take the Cayenne to the Scandinavian countries to do cold-weather testing and tune their AWD systems?

Regardless, the point is that the V is a great car in it's own right, just because it doesn't have a propellor on the hood, doesn't mean its automatically a piece of crap. That's the point I'm trying to refute with that post. Like I said, fine line between brand loyalty and snob/douchery.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Was the CTS-V actually designed by Europeans either? I don't believe it was.

F23A4

I wonder what Jeremy Clarkson would say about the 2G V.

fsttyms1

Hopefully the next gen V will have a DSG trans.

mmafighta

wow

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

The next generation m5 and m6 won't even offer a manual as an option, this is the last generation for it. Luckily BMW said the m3 will still have it as an option.

ttribe

It's a photoshop special; don't get too excited yet.

Black Tire

Oh god forbid someone having a negative opinion against the GM product. He's un-American.

This used to be a free country where you are allowed to make your own opinion.

MeehowsBRZ

I'd take a CTS-V wagon and call it a day.


You're also allowed to disagree with someone if you have a different opinion... especially if they sound like an ass hat while making it.

HBaJ

? Where did I say anything about anybody being unamerican? You might want to push your personal agendas in another thread.

F23A4

I saw one of those parked in SoHo last month.

Crazy Bimmer

The wagon makes me all giddy!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I saw a wagon, without a sunroof. Not sure it it was a manual or not, but I hear the sunroof delete option is very rare on the Vagon.