gixxer60097

I really have my heart set on the A4 but reliability is a big thought. I currently have a 3G TL FWD and love it. It has been trouble free and is in perfect condition with 67K miles.

Pros and cons with the two cars:

Mileage: A4 wins by a large margin here
Price to value: Tie (TL slightly in front but both comparable)
Reliability: TL
Fun to drive: Only drove the A4 but the turbo with a manual was a blast
Resale: TL
Exterior: A4
Interior: Tie
Availability: Probably the TL. Audi has too many options to configure
Performance: TL but a chipped A4 can be the same for $600. I just don't know what effect it will have on the reliability of the turbo.

I will be putting 20K miles on a year and need something good on gas but is fun to drive.

Any thoughts from others facing the same dilemma?
So far I can get the A4 $500 over invoice @ 5.9% vs the 1.9% for the TL but I always pay my vehicles off in 2-3 years anyway.

Fishy

I'd put another 40k miles on your 3G TL, save up some cash and wait to see what happens in a couple of years. The 4G TL model refresh may improve the beak by removing it and we can see if Audi has indeeed improved their long term reliability.

(Cj)

What about a G37x? Then you don't have to compromise at all. Have your cake and eat it too

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

I'd say keep the TL and get your moneys worth out of it. Give it a few years to let the normal kinks get fixed in the newly remodeled cars and then get one.

Just my of course.

gixxer60097

The reason I am in the market is my car is still worth a descent amount and if I wait it will get to the point where it is only worth money to me, if that makes sense.
I have been saving for a few years for a new vehicle and I have a renter for the next two years so that will pay off the new purchase.

Now is the time to make a choice.

gixxer60097

I don't like the looks of the sedan which is a requirement and I do not like the interior. I know the muscle is there and it would be fun but it just doesn't do it for me.

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

^Very true. In that case I would go for the Audi. Even though the TL is bigger, I like the fit and the finish of the new A4 much better.

(Cj)

I guess looks are subjective, because I prefer the look of the G over the new TL. THe G is a little bland but not controversial like the TL. Don't get the Audi, because reliablity is still a factor. Here's a lists of the most reliable luxury sedans according to Consumer Reports: Infiniti M35 (RWD) Lexus IS 250 Acura TSX (2008) Infiniti G35 Sedan (RWD) Acura TL (2008) Lexus GS450h Hybrid* Maybe you should check out the IS?

subinf

I'd keep the 3G TL. The new TL's are so god damn ugly I'd hate myself if I had to wake up and see that car everyday.

But, if you are getting a new car, go for the Audi

gixxer60097

I have ruled out RWD cars due to the snow I get around here. I would love one but it is not realistic for me.

Mokos23

Cadillac CTS? Isn't it available in AWD?

07TLTYPESex

i would go with the audi, i've been reading in car and driver and that car is getting nothing but good reviews, but have you checked the new subaru legacy? i hear from people that they are excellent vehicles too

stlswagger

I'd say go with an S4. B5 if you want twin turbo and can find one that hasn't been beaten up or a B6 with that sexy V8...

fsttyms1

Audi or CTS-4

nokiaman

A4!

SodaLuvr

Definitely the Audi.

The new VW/Audi cars have been much more reliable. APR does a good job with tuning and durability doesn't seem to be an issue.

S14 n Tsx

I will take A4 over ugly turd!

onebadna1nsx

TinkySD

Wasn't a bone stock A4 2.0t just as quick as a 2010 TL AWD in the most recent car and drive comparo? It doesn't have the HP of the TL but with a flash that midrange is sick. If they were similarly performing before the flash per the comparo i'm thinking the A4 would have some serious advantage after.

mrmako

Given the two choices, and in a down market, you could try a trade for the A4.

But stop by the Subaru dealer and give a Legacy GT a test drive. It may not be up to the level of interior perfection a TL has (or Audi, which is the benchmark), but the AWD and performance will surprise you. Plus, the car can be easily modded for 300HP plus. Only test a GT. The 3.6 is not cheaply modified (think $ thousands).

Just take a look.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I dumped my last Acura in 2005 and we have been an Audi family ever since.

First Audi was a B7 A4 2.0T, then we upgraded to a C6 A6. Both have been trouble-free and just as reliable, if not more reliable then the two Acura's I owned previously.

So I'd say drive them both, figure out your finances, then go with your gut. Can't really go wrong either way... but for me... it will take a lot from Acura for me to even consider them again.

Saintor

4-cyl. are a joke in this class....whatever the power is. Without Audi Drive Select, an expensive option, the car is not really interesting to push.

I can't stand the TL look (once the best looking one - shame).

Go see the 328i Xdrive, they probably have great deals too. I would be also interested in the CTS-4, although it is a bit expensive and less of a treat to drive than the Bimmer.

(Cj)

Yeah, I believe that in 0-60 the 2.0T A4 is as fast or nearly as fast as the TL SH-AWD. Although the Audi is gorgeous and has good performance, I'm not sure of reliability past the warranty. But it's good to hear that Juniorbean has had good experience with his Audis.

BMW has decent reliability, not sure about the CTS, though. Infiniti and Lexus are still top of the class for long term reliability (yes even above Acura now).

Moog-Type-S

A4...sorry, the Acura beak FTL

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^^ And a nice little chip in that 2.0T A4 and that car becomes even MORE fun to drive! Luckily for us our dealer has a great relationship with a large tuner here in Charlotte (GMP Performance), so not only are they cool with mods... they encourage the relationship with the tuner!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

From my experience, when someone says that about the 2.0T they haven't driven it. Any Audi with that engine is a blast to drive... and even more fun in stick. More fun then the 328 and 530 I've driven and more fun then any Acura I've driven (aside from my TL-S... but that was after I had every bolt-on available installed).

Not only that... but my wife would regularly get 33-36mpg per tank. Can't beat that combo! Fun to drive and frugal.

Saintor

Your experience is wrong.

Even Car&Driver complained about that underpar engine in their last comparo.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

majin ssj eric

I would say pick ANYthing over the new TL. It just looks awful. Then again, if the styling doesn't bother you I'd wager that the TL is sportier than the A4...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

If you haven't driven the TL SH-AWD yet, then it's probably a good idea to give it a try.

Go to the 4G TL forum and you will find many people who initially thought the beak was so ugly that they would never buy that car....but after test driving it, a lot of them bought one home.

And it also seems like you don't mind driving a manual car. If that's the case, definitely give the 6MT TL a try. It's a 13-second car just like a lot of cars in its class, so the speed issue isn't too much of a problem anymore. The mileage seems to be pretty good too as Car and Driver was able to get 21mpg from their aggressive driving.

May be take a look at this review first:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

Speed_Racer

That's dumb. You can't say JB experience is wrong and then use a comparo to justify your statment when said comparo used all V6's. Of course they are going to say it's underpar.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

For many, ignorance is bliss.

Costco

I would take the A4 2.0T, even though I've already voiced my opinion of its pricing being a little high in the past. The TL still has a few hurdles to leap in regards to proving its reliability, build quality and especially looks. Recent Audi interiors are a cut above, I'll have to admit, after seeing them in person.

Audi's build quality has always been pretty high, and their reliability seems to be on the upswing. Even with the seemingly high occurence of reflashing the 2.0T you don't hear about bad coilpacks or sludging or anything like the old 1.8T, not that they're necessarily related to chips or anything.

For the TL so far there's a TSB on the rusting rotors, and already there's a 2010 6MT owner reporting a slight grind. The steering wheel clicks and I think a few members reported blown speakers even at lower volumes. Also, rattles including the classic rear shelf rattle that has been prevalent since the TSX and 3G TL... and the mismatched rear bumpers live on. Even 3G owners are starting to discover issues with their 5ATs.... I would know since I'm subscribed to a thread about 3G shifting issues. Planning on changing the pressure sensors once our 2G gets out of its warranty period.

Who knows if Acura's solved these problems yet with the 4G? With the new A4 a few problems I've heard of are issues with vibration at a certain speed due to the casting of the control arms (but this could also probably be due to tire imbalance), and a hesitation in upshifts with the DSG or Tiptronic, and the classic sunroof closing/opening on its own which is still around from previous gens Aside from those issues, I haven't read or heard about anything else.

As far as maintaining the reliability of the turbo (this goes for all turbo/SC engines) the best things you can do are to change the oil often i.e. 3,000 mile intervals, use a high quality synthetic oil and get a turbo timer or allow the engine to idle for 30 seconds after you're done driving; if you've been driving hard then up to a minute. I don't think the 2.0Ts boost very much to begin with or even after a tune, so it should be safe as long as you maintain it.

When it comes to some people, it can be painfully obvious when the only thing they're useful for is being a fountain of ignorance. You can look all you want but the fountain isn't going to start flowing wine instead of water out of nowhere

SodaLuvr

If you purchase a VW/Audi 2.0T or any DI engine, it is very important to perform a fuel induction service at least every 10,000 miles. This would involve introducing a solvent-based cleaner through the throttle-body or vacuum line and also adding an additive to the fuel tank.

Since the DI engines directly inject fuel into the cylinders, a lot of build-up accumulates in the intake tract and on the back of the intake valves. On traditional port-injected vehicles, fuel is mixed with the air before it is drawn in. So on a traditional port-injected vehicle, the fuel's additives has a chance to dissolve any accumulated deposits, but on a DI engine, this does not happen.

Overtime, this is what can happen on a DI engine if you do not perform a fuel induction service with every oil service:

At 100k miles:




At 22k miles:



The newer 2.0T TSI engines are supposed to be better, but it's still a must to use either Amsoil Powerfoam or Seafoam every 10k or so to keep the intake area clean. Otherwise, you'll have to manually remove the manifold and scrub out all of the deposits. If you allow the deposits to build-up, you will get misfire problems due to the reduced airflow.

Costco

Holy crap that looks bad. Just goes to show maintenance is key.

I would probably just do a PCV bypass. That would probably help a lot, including the Seafoam that SodaLuvr is recommending. I haven't heard of any engines failures due to sludge build-up on the 2.0T yet though.

SodaLuvr

The 2.0Ts are definitely hard on oil. Lots of fuel dilution (also another issue with DI engines) and oil shearing. An oil service every 5,000 miles is a good idea for maximum engine longevity.

The problem with Seafoam, BG ISC, Mopar CCC or Amsoil Powerfoam is that it MUST be used from day one-- starting at the 5k or 10k mark. If you wait until 30k before you perform your first fuel induction service, you will not be able to remove the accumulated build up. As you can see in the pictures, the build-up is very thick and sticky, so the cleaners will not be able to attack it. If you wait too long, you might as well remove the intake and clean it manually.

nj2pa2nc

did you check out the subaru legacy-turbo engine, awd, lots of pep and features-test drove one-very impressed with the 6MT

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

As far as I know, the Turbo in the A4 is liquid cooled, no turbo timer needed; however, you are right, if you had been pushing it hard just before you arrived at your destination, it is a good habit to give it a chance to cool down a bit before shutting down the motor.

Also, the 3K interval for oil changes on the 2.0T is overkill; it would be better to stick to 5K intervals (which is also overkill depending on what kind of driving you do), but many do it anyway, including myself. The 5K intervals would allow you to keep your service intervals at the 10K marks that are recommended by the factory.

Blk6sp

I ALWAYS change my oil to from organic oil to a synthetic! They have a higher temperature threshold and don't leave as many nasty deposits.

The A4 is a nice car but the 4 banger just isn't as smooth as the V6.

Costco

I was just listing general recommendations for maintaining a turbocharged engine. I drive my cars hard but don't like to put them away bleeding so I try to get as much insurance as I can for things like that. I've never believed in a 3k oil change interval.... except for forced induction engines or race applications.

I'm not sure if it was directly the cause but out of the 1.8Ts that I've seen get sludge buildup, but IIRC most followed the factory recommended 5k or 10k (whichever one its supposed to be) OCI. The sludge problem was also partly due to engine design but I can imagine the PCV system didn't help.

Nonetheless I'd still take the A4 just so much potential.

Eoanou

Audi reliability is a non-issue when you won't be doing more than 100K miles. My brother had an A4 2006, he drove it very hard. The only problem was it developed a oil burning issue at 100K miles, but that could have been remedied with a larger down pipe and intercooler. The oil burning issue was a result of hot engine temps I'm sure.

Anyway I doubt you'll be driving as hard as he did so you should expect the car to have minimal issues by 100K miles. However a maintenance costs are much more than that of the TL (oil changes, brakes, etc.)

Also note that the TL has lower depreciation than the Audi so after a few years your Audi will be worth less than the TL.