1 of the 3 Genesis in the United States...
#165
Senior Moderator
WOW ... about 4 pages of this thread can be chopped since it has nothing to do with the car, but cross-arguing among AZ members.
Can't we all get along and talk about cars? (in a Rodney King voice)
I'm going to dis on Hyundai for one second ... the only reason why Hyundai can charge $50k for the Genesis in their home market is because they charge a huge tariff on non-Korean made cars ... I'm thinking it's around a 100% tariff. So if you wanted to buy a $28k TSX (since it's been mentioned so many times here in this thread), you'd be paying closer to $56k. And based upon the goods inside the Genesis ... that would be a no-brainer. And there's a huge patriotism in Korea to buy the local product. (It was like circa 1970 here in North America and 'buying domestic')
OK ... now that I've got that off my chest ... I think the modest exterior is non-offensive enough to get people into the showroom and see it for what it's worth. Rarely do pictures of a car and first-hand impression with your own eyes match 100%. If we can remove the badge on the grill and trunk ... see the car for what it is ... I think it is a fine looking car. And to people who have posted, "It took lines from [here] and [there]" ... that's a common practice in the auto industry, if you haven't noticed. And isn't imitation the greatest form of flattery? Just don't go out and copy verbatim a car (a la Chinese automakers).
I honestly think Hyundai is going to be a major force in the world car market. People laughed when Acura and Lexus came out in the late 80s ('jap crap') ... look at where we are today? (And look at the name of this web site, for crying out loud!) I would have told my dad to test drive this car when it comes out ... but he and my mom are such brand whores, it's not even funny! Oh well ... opportunity lost for them.
I bet if we did an experiment with 100 people on the street and flipped the Hyundai badge for BMW ... have them drive the car around ... they'd have no problems dropping $50k for this thing, based upon PA's short analysis. Sad to see how public impression can so easily be swayed by a symbol on the hood.
Can't we all get along and talk about cars? (in a Rodney King voice)
I'm going to dis on Hyundai for one second ... the only reason why Hyundai can charge $50k for the Genesis in their home market is because they charge a huge tariff on non-Korean made cars ... I'm thinking it's around a 100% tariff. So if you wanted to buy a $28k TSX (since it's been mentioned so many times here in this thread), you'd be paying closer to $56k. And based upon the goods inside the Genesis ... that would be a no-brainer. And there's a huge patriotism in Korea to buy the local product. (It was like circa 1970 here in North America and 'buying domestic')
OK ... now that I've got that off my chest ... I think the modest exterior is non-offensive enough to get people into the showroom and see it for what it's worth. Rarely do pictures of a car and first-hand impression with your own eyes match 100%. If we can remove the badge on the grill and trunk ... see the car for what it is ... I think it is a fine looking car. And to people who have posted, "It took lines from [here] and [there]" ... that's a common practice in the auto industry, if you haven't noticed. And isn't imitation the greatest form of flattery? Just don't go out and copy verbatim a car (a la Chinese automakers).
I honestly think Hyundai is going to be a major force in the world car market. People laughed when Acura and Lexus came out in the late 80s ('jap crap') ... look at where we are today? (And look at the name of this web site, for crying out loud!) I would have told my dad to test drive this car when it comes out ... but he and my mom are such brand whores, it's not even funny! Oh well ... opportunity lost for them.
I bet if we did an experiment with 100 people on the street and flipped the Hyundai badge for BMW ... have them drive the car around ... they'd have no problems dropping $50k for this thing, based upon PA's short analysis. Sad to see how public impression can so easily be swayed by a symbol on the hood.
#166
Instructor
Originally Posted by derrick
I bet if we did an experiment with 100 people on the street and flipped the Hyundai badge for BMW ... have them drive the car around ... they'd have no problems dropping $50k for this thing, based upon PA's short analysis. Sad to see how public impression can so easily be swayed by a symbol on the hood.
10 years from now, we'll see.
Maybe by that time the new force in the market would be cars from PRC and India, who knows.
#167
Registered but harmless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Age: 59
Posts: 14,857
Received 1,149 Likes
on
775 Posts
Alright, bishes, quit moaning about Hyundai's past...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23390986/
And no Acuras are on the list, although the Accord remains, as do a couple of those el cheapo POS Lexus and Infiniti wanna-bes.
And no Acuras are on the list, although the Accord remains, as do a couple of those el cheapo POS Lexus and Infiniti wanna-bes.
#168
Originally Posted by Will Y.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23390986/
And no Acuras are on the list, although the Accord remains, as do a couple of those el cheapo POS Lexus and Infiniti wanna-bes.
And no Acuras are on the list, although the Accord remains, as do a couple of those el cheapo POS Lexus and Infiniti wanna-bes.
Here's another article -- http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/28/e...icks-for-2008/
Announced of as 2:00 PM yesterday, the Elantra and the Santa Fe were named top picks by the Consumer Reports alongside the most recognized brands in the industry.
So it's a laugh that Walmart Gangsta is questioning the quality control process of Hyundai when he hasn't the slightest clue about Hyundai's QC process or QC processes in general.
#169
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
I was just about to post that.
Here's another article -- http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/28/e...icks-for-2008/
Announced of as 2:00 PM yesterday, the Elantra and the Santa Fe were named top picks by the Consumer Reports alongside the most recognized brands in the industry.
So it's a laugh that Walmart Gangsta is questioning the quality control process of Hyundai when he hasn't the slightest clue about Hyundai's QC process or QC processes in general.
Here's another article -- http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/28/e...icks-for-2008/
Announced of as 2:00 PM yesterday, the Elantra and the Santa Fe were named top picks by the Consumer Reports alongside the most recognized brands in the industry.
So it's a laugh that Walmart Gangsta is questioning the quality control process of Hyundai when he hasn't the slightest clue about Hyundai's QC process or QC processes in general.
#170
Drifting
Join Date: May 2004
Location: D.C. area
Age: 46
Posts: 3,457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
I was just about to post that.
Here's another article -- http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/28/e...icks-for-2008/
Announced of as 2:00 PM yesterday, the Elantra and the Santa Fe were named top picks by the Consumer Reports alongside the most recognized brands in the industry.
So it's a laugh that Walmart Gangsta is questioning the quality control process of Hyundai when he hasn't the slightest clue about Hyundai's QC process or QC processes in general.
Here's another article -- http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/28/e...icks-for-2008/
Announced of as 2:00 PM yesterday, the Elantra and the Santa Fe were named top picks by the Consumer Reports alongside the most recognized brands in the industry.
So it's a laugh that Walmart Gangsta is questioning the quality control process of Hyundai when he hasn't the slightest clue about Hyundai's QC process or QC processes in general.
#171
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by sipark
You seem to be a bit familiar with Hyundai QC process. Would it be possible for you to describe how they've been able to improve their quality so dramatically in recent years?
#173
You can flip all the badges you want, when it comes down to it, nobody is going to pay more than $30k for a Hyundai...and thats being generous. As Charliemike said, many of us younger kids grew up when Acura,Infiniti, and Lexus were the major players for the Japanese upscale market, so I personally have not seen any of those companies grow. However, I do not believe Hyundai will grow as rapidly as the above trio if they stick to the Hyundai name. Flexus, or Flacura, or Finitie would all be very good examples for a new branch as they don't have a problem ripping off others design cues.
#174
I disagree with unanimity
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by JJaber06
nobody is going to pay more than $30k for a Hyundai
like i said before, not everybody is a brand whore. the genesis will be ~$35K, which is ~$25K < an E-class. people will buy it.
http://www.hyundaigenesis.com/
Last edited by sho_nuff1997; 02-29-2008 at 11:37 AM.
#175
What Would Don Draper Do?
Originally Posted by sho_nuff1997
an AWD VeraCruz starts @ $30K
at JJaber06. i wonder how many said nobody would pay $30k for a toyota back in the days.
#180
Originally Posted by JJaber06
You can flip all the badges you want, when it comes down to it, nobody is going to pay more than $30k for a Hyundai...and thats being generous. As Charliemike said, many of us younger kids grew up when Acura,Infiniti, and Lexus were the major players for the Japanese upscale market, so I personally have not seen any of those companies grow. However, I do not believe Hyundai will grow as rapidly as the above trio if they stick to the Hyundai name. Flexus, or Flacura, or Finitie would all be very good examples for a new branch as they don't have a problem ripping off others design cues.
I always quote Rick Wagoner (Chairman of GM) and when I hear statements like this. I believe it went something like "Hyundai is taking the playbook of the Japanese companies and doing it ten times faster."
And please don't talk like Hyundai is the only one "copying" off other companies' cues. Everybody does it; get real. It's called a design trend. You don't keep up with the trend, you fail as a business. Companies like Ferrari, Porsche and BMW can dare to be bold and SET the trend; after all, even if they are ugly people will still buy them just for the status symbol. Everybody else, be it GM, Ford, Chrysler, Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, Acura, Infiniti, your mainstream auto manufacturers that market to the Average Joe, has to follow the trend. They can't afford to be bold and set the trend. Remember the controversy when the original iteration of the current 7-series came out? Everybody said it was butt ugly, yet you started seeing one on every street corner. Soon after, others started utilizing the design cues on their own cars.
As for creating a new brand... sometimes, instead of creating something new out of thin air, it's better to build up on what you have. And what Hyundai has right now isn't too bad. There ARE people out there who recognize the progress Hyundai has made. By creating a new brand at this critical juncture, it might actually disconnect itself from that important demographic. You've gotta weigh the pros and cons.
Now I don't know what's going on inside Chairman M.K. Chung's head. But as a car guy, not as a Hyundai Team Member, my speculation is that Hyundai is testing the waters with the Genesis, Veracruz and the Genesis Coupe. The success of the first generation of these 3 models may dictate the future of a premium brand. After all, Hyundai has always said it wanted 3 models to start off a new premium brand. But that's just my own speculation.
Last edited by Pure Adrenaline; 02-29-2008 at 12:05 PM.
#182
What Would Don Draper Do?
http://www.detnews.com/2005/specialr...A01-182019.htm
it's a long article, so i don't want to copy/paste it.
but you may want to read it, JJaber.
it's a long article, so i don't want to copy/paste it.
but you may want to read it, JJaber.
#183
Originally Posted by JJaber06
You can flip all the badges you want, when it comes down to it, nobody is going to pay more than $30k for a Hyundai...and thats being generous. As Charliemike said, many of us younger kids grew up when Acura,Infiniti, and Lexus were the major players for the Japanese upscale market, so I personally have not seen any of those companies grow. However, I do not believe Hyundai will grow as rapidly as the above trio if they stick to the Hyundai name. Flexus, or Flacura, or Finitie would all be very good examples for a new branch as they don't have a problem ripping off others design cues.
Hyundai Kia Motor Group is already bigger than Honda and Nissan. Only Toyota is bigger than HKMG among the competitors hailing from Japan. So what was that about how Hyundai won't grow as rapidly as them?? They already are bigger than two of the three.
#185
Originally Posted by sipark
You seem to be a bit familiar with Hyundai QC process. Would it be possible for you to describe how they've been able to improve their quality so dramatically in recent years?
When Chairman M.K. Chung became the top dog, he put quality as the number one priority. I really don't think we would be where we are today without him.
Our Alabama plant boasts world class manufacturing operation, but it is a sister plant to the Asan facility in Korea. So it's not just Alabama. All global Hyundai manufacturing plants are world class facilities. We have plants and are building plants in Asia, Europe, North America and South America, and have R&D facilities in almost all places considered to be the mecca of the global auto industry including Japan, U.S., Germany, etc. This is just Hyundai and Kia. We have countless Korean suppliers and supplier affiliate companies who have also brought up their quality standards. We can do a great job putting the parts together at OEM level, but it won't mean jack if the supplied parts don't live up to the standards.
Hyundai Kia Motor Group is larger than Nissan and Honda on a global scale. Toyota is the only bigger company among the competitions hailing from Japan. Besides the auto industry, Hyundai is involved in many different industries including shipbuilding, construction, heavy machinery, financial services, high-speed trains and rails, steel manufacturing, satellite telematics, IT, sports, etc.
#186
What Would Don Draper Do?
Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
Besides the auto industry, Hyundai is involved in many different industries including shipbuilding, construction, heavy machinery, financial services, high-speed trains and rails, steel manufacturing, satellite telematics, IT, sports, etc.
all of my cousins work for either hyundai or samsung. and they all do different things for different industries/sectors.
#187
Chloe @ 17mo
I'm still waiting Hyundai to make the car that would force me to start wanting to buy it. The Genesis series won't be it. Even GM has done that with the new CTS and Enclave and G8.
#188
Oderint dum metuant.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Wylie
Age: 46
Posts: 12,496
Likes: 0
Received 534 Likes
on
446 Posts
Eight pages, six of which are moaning about Hyundai trying to compete with Tier 1 luxury companies and/or being crappy cars. WTF? This BS discussion (which has been carried in numerous other threads) has nothing to do with PA's review or the car itself. If you want to discuss the company Hyundai, do it elsewhere. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to sift through BS comments that have nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread to get to the good stuff.
#189
an asshole from florida
I know Im pretty young and didnt see honda or toyota come up from being a "bad" name. But my parents were given an early 90's sonata back when we were tight on money. the thing was a total piece of shit, i mean totally. I compare that sonata to the new sonata and wow does that thing look good, ive been in santa fes and those are actually really nice to. I really dont understand why people just cant accept that Hyundai has become a better brand
#190
What Would Don Draper Do?
Originally Posted by chill_dog
Eight pages, six of which are moaning about Hyundai trying to compete with Tier 1 luxury companies and/or being crappy cars. WTF? This BS discussion (which has been carried in numerous other threads) has nothing to do with PA's review or the car itself. If you want to discuss the company Hyundai, do it elsewhere. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to sift through BS comments that have nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread to get to the good stuff.
might as well just update the thread title to:
"1 of the 3 Genesis in the United States (Post 1 is all you need to read)"
#191
Drifting
Join Date: May 2004
Location: D.C. area
Age: 46
Posts: 3,457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
true.
might as well just update the thread title to:
"1 of the 3 Genesis in the United States (Post 1 is all you need to read)"
might as well just update the thread title to:
"1 of the 3 Genesis in the United States (Post 1 is all you need to read)"
#192
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by chill_dog
Eight pages, six of which are moaning about Hyundai trying to compete with Tier 1 luxury companies and/or being crappy cars. WTF? This BS discussion (which has been carried in numerous other threads) has nothing to do with PA's review or the car itself. If you want to discuss the company Hyundai, do it elsewhere. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to sift through BS comments that have nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread to get to the good stuff.
#193
Originally Posted by sho_nuff1997
an AWD VeraCruz starts @ $30K
like i said before, not everybody is a brand whore. the genesis will be ~$35K, which is ~$25K < an E-class. people will buy it.
http://www.hyundaigenesis.com/
like i said before, not everybody is a brand whore. the genesis will be ~$35K, which is ~$25K < an E-class. people will buy it.
http://www.hyundaigenesis.com/
You're right, not everybody is a badge whore. I think thats part of the reason why Hyundai has been so successful, they don't have the image that comes with most of the other car companies and offer extremely affordable cars. I still think they need an upscale name change though...
I believe Honda,Nissan, and Toyota came in and DEMANDED everyones respect by putting out some amazing cars. I mean i'm talking the Supras, NSX, Skyline, Z,240s, ITR, S2000,Soarer and so many more. These cars started up an entire new "tuner world" and IMO, revolutionized the auto industry. I think thats one reason why i'll have so much respect for them.
I don't really see any history behind Hyundai though...I'll always see them as pretty crappy run of the mill cars, as i'm sure many others on this site will agree...they're just scared of being attacked for having an opposing opinion. Want to preform your own experiment? I.M. everyone on your buddylist and tell them you traded in your xxxx for a Hyundai. Here, i'll do a couple...I just copied and pasted this
yo i traded in the TL for the new luxury hyundai
to three different people....here are the results...
: LOL
: yeh right
: id shoot you
--------------
: um...ew
: i guess im driving when we go out
-------------
: wait what? joking right?
-------------
#194
Oderint dum metuant.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Wylie
Age: 46
Posts: 12,496
Likes: 0
Received 534 Likes
on
446 Posts
Originally Posted by JJaber06
I believe Honda,Nissan, and Toyota came in and DEMANDED everyones respect by putting out some amazing cars. I mean i'm talking the Supras, NSX, Skyline, Z,240s, ITR, S2000,Soarer and so many more.
Originally Posted by srika
you're right. this sort of thing just never happens anywhere else, in any other threads, ever, period. all threads remain 100% on course for the entire duration of their existence.
And yes, what I wrote in response to JJaber helps the situation .
#195
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by JJaber06
I don't really see any history behind Hyundai though...I'll always see them as pretty crappy run of the mill cars, as i'm sure many others on this site will agree...they're just scared of being attacked for having an opposing opinion. Want to preform your own experiment? I.M. everyone on your buddylist and tell them you traded in your xxxx for a Hyundai. Here, i'll do a couple...I just copied and pasted this
yo i traded in the TL for the new luxury hyundai
to three different people....here are the results...
: LOL
: yeh right
: id shoot you
--------------
: um...ew
: i guess im driving when we go out
-------------
: wait what? joking right?
-------------
yo i traded in the TL for the new luxury hyundai
to three different people....here are the results...
: LOL
: yeh right
: id shoot you
--------------
: um...ew
: i guess im driving when we go out
-------------
: wait what? joking right?
-------------
#196
What Would Don Draper Do?
Originally Posted by JJaber06
You're right, not everybody is a badge whore. I think thats part of the reason why Hyundai has been so successful, they don't have the image that comes with most of the other car companies and offer extremely affordable cars. I still think they need an upscale name change though...
I believe Honda,Nissan, and Toyota came in and DEMANDED everyones respect by putting out some amazing cars. I mean i'm talking the Supras, NSX, Skyline, Z,240s, ITR, S2000,Soarer and so many more. These cars started up an entire new "tuner world" and IMO, revolutionized the auto industry. I think thats one reason why i'll have so much respect for them.
I don't really see any history behind Hyundai though...I'll always see them as pretty crappy run of the mill cars, as i'm sure many others on this site will agree...they're just scared of being attacked for having an opposing opinion. Want to preform your own experiment? I.M. everyone on your buddylist and tell them you traded in your xxxx for a Hyundai. Here, i'll do a couple...I just copied and pasted this
yo i traded in the TL for the new luxury hyundai
to three different people....here are the results...
: LOL
: yeh right
: id shoot you
--------------
: um...ew
: i guess im driving when we go out
-------------
: wait what? joking right?
-------------
I believe Honda,Nissan, and Toyota came in and DEMANDED everyones respect by putting out some amazing cars. I mean i'm talking the Supras, NSX, Skyline, Z,240s, ITR, S2000,Soarer and so many more. These cars started up an entire new "tuner world" and IMO, revolutionized the auto industry. I think thats one reason why i'll have so much respect for them.
I don't really see any history behind Hyundai though...I'll always see them as pretty crappy run of the mill cars, as i'm sure many others on this site will agree...they're just scared of being attacked for having an opposing opinion. Want to preform your own experiment? I.M. everyone on your buddylist and tell them you traded in your xxxx for a Hyundai. Here, i'll do a couple...I just copied and pasted this
yo i traded in the TL for the new luxury hyundai
to three different people....here are the results...
: LOL
: yeh right
: id shoot you
--------------
: um...ew
: i guess im driving when we go out
-------------
: wait what? joking right?
-------------
Originally Posted by JJaber06
As Charliemike said, many of us younger kids grew up when Acura,Infiniti, and Lexus were the major players for the Japanese upscale market, so I personally have not seen any of those companies grow.
#198
Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
What are people going to be looking at 10 years from now when they reflect on Hyundais?
"Man, remember when the Accent got A/C as a standard option"
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
So the point of this experiment is that your buddies are as closed minded as you?
Last edited by FiveLiterCheater; 02-29-2008 at 04:53 PM.
#199
In the Mid-South meow
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by JJaber06
I can even go as far back as the S600...If you couldn't tell the cars I listed were from the 90's....I'm talking 70's and 80's.
What are people going to be looking at 10 years from now when they reflect on Hyundais?
"Man, remember when the Accent got A/C as a standard option"
What are people going to be looking at 10 years from now when they reflect on Hyundais?
"Man, remember when the Accent got A/C as a standard option"
#200
Originally Posted by SuperTrooper169
I think it's funny how you talk about Honda, Toyota and Nissan and their "amazing cars" yet you're trying to compare those with the entry level econo-box Accent. I will tell you this though... not even ten years from now, more like right now, I reflect back upon my Acura and I say "Man, remember when the CL dropped it's first automatic tranny and then the replacement felt just as shitty as the original slush box." Even your fav brand has made some crappy decisions along the way, bud. You're not being fair or equal in the comparison.