Nikon D80
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by wackjum
This post confuses a lot of the issues. The 18-200 VR is an 11x zoom lens. There is only one 18-200 VR lens, so I know exactly what lcrazyaznl is talking about. However, the usual way of identifying a lens name is 18-200 VR 3.5-5.6. Let's take it slow.
18-200 means this lens can go from 18mm to 200mm. This is the distance the lens' elements focus light so that it appears to come from another direction (called nodal point), from the imaging sensor of the camera (focal plane). That is a partial explanation but it is all you need to know.
18mm means the nodal point is 18mm from the sensor of the camera and 200mm means the nodal point is 200mm from the sensor. This is normally called the "focal length" of a lens and it directly impacts how much of the image is visible to the sensor and how magnified the image is.
Another way of looking at it is the light coming from out the rear of the lens is a spreading cone with the tip at the nodal point. The sensor is smack in the middle of this cone and can only read some of this light (the middle). What it can read, it records and displays as a digital image.
Let's assume a 50mm lens. It projects a cone of light from out the back that starts to with the tip 50mm away from the sensor. You can imagine that a cone with a tip 100mm away means that the base is larger than the 50mm since there has been more distance for the light to spread. But since the sensor is the same size, it can "see" less area in the cone of light.
Therefore, a 100mm lens will see approximately 1/2 of the center area of the 50mm lens' image but the objects it can see will be twice as large as in the 50mm lens.
So that is focal length. Know that at 18mm, the image is fairly wide. At 200mm, the area seen is narrow but things are larger. This is generally called "zoom." And these lenses can be set at any distance between 18-200, such as 115mm. As a matter of fact, an object at 200mm will be approximately 11x larger than that same object photographed at 18mm.
The second part of the lens's name is "VR." This stands for vibration reduction and is a way of stabilizing the lens so that shakey hands won't have so big an effect.
The third part is 3.5-5.6. This is the aperture of the lens, and because there are two numbers, this lens starts out with an aperture of 3.5 around 18mm, but by the time it gets to 200mm, the maximum aperture is 5.6. The exact point where it changes cannot be told from these numbers alone.
Aperture is important because it controls how much light can come into the lens. Each f-stop number means it allows twice the light of the previous number. The following are the common full stop numbers:
f1.4, f2.0, f2.8, f4.0, f5.6, f.8, f16
This means that a lens of f2.0 lets in only half as much light as f1.4. It also means a f2.8 lens lets in only 1/4 of the light of the f1.4 lens. This means that by the time you get to f5.6, very little light is coming into the lens and it would be hard to use this lens in the dark.
A camera will divide aperture into either half or third stops. That is why you see numbers like f1.8 or f3.5.
A 24-70 f2.8 is a lens that can go from 24mm to 70mm. and has a maximum aperture of 2.8 the whole time (only one number). For a zoom lens, this is a good wide aperture. For prime lenses, which are lenses that cannot change, you can see f stops of f1.4 or f1.8.
Prime lenses are better than zooms because they have been engineered to precisely focus light at that distance. A zoom has to be engineered to focus light "pretty well" at a range of distances.
Lower f-numbers does not necessarily mean better quality. Strictly speaking, it only means that it can let in more light and therefore is more useful in the dark.
However, manufacturers tend to use the best optics and construction in lenses that have wide apertures, because wide aperture lenses are typically sold at a price premium.
It is a fair guess to say that a 50mm f1.4 probably has better optics than a 50mm f1.8. But this is not a rule. It might have better optics because it costs 2x more, but really, you are paying that amount for the better low light use.
Also, don't compare the sharpness of a zoom lens to a prime lens. They are different tools for different uses.
I hope that helps you read a lens and know what people are talking about.
18-200 means this lens can go from 18mm to 200mm. This is the distance the lens' elements focus light so that it appears to come from another direction (called nodal point), from the imaging sensor of the camera (focal plane). That is a partial explanation but it is all you need to know.
18mm means the nodal point is 18mm from the sensor of the camera and 200mm means the nodal point is 200mm from the sensor. This is normally called the "focal length" of a lens and it directly impacts how much of the image is visible to the sensor and how magnified the image is.
Another way of looking at it is the light coming from out the rear of the lens is a spreading cone with the tip at the nodal point. The sensor is smack in the middle of this cone and can only read some of this light (the middle). What it can read, it records and displays as a digital image.
Let's assume a 50mm lens. It projects a cone of light from out the back that starts to with the tip 50mm away from the sensor. You can imagine that a cone with a tip 100mm away means that the base is larger than the 50mm since there has been more distance for the light to spread. But since the sensor is the same size, it can "see" less area in the cone of light.
Therefore, a 100mm lens will see approximately 1/2 of the center area of the 50mm lens' image but the objects it can see will be twice as large as in the 50mm lens.
So that is focal length. Know that at 18mm, the image is fairly wide. At 200mm, the area seen is narrow but things are larger. This is generally called "zoom." And these lenses can be set at any distance between 18-200, such as 115mm. As a matter of fact, an object at 200mm will be approximately 11x larger than that same object photographed at 18mm.
The second part of the lens's name is "VR." This stands for vibration reduction and is a way of stabilizing the lens so that shakey hands won't have so big an effect.
The third part is 3.5-5.6. This is the aperture of the lens, and because there are two numbers, this lens starts out with an aperture of 3.5 around 18mm, but by the time it gets to 200mm, the maximum aperture is 5.6. The exact point where it changes cannot be told from these numbers alone.
Aperture is important because it controls how much light can come into the lens. Each f-stop number means it allows twice the light of the previous number. The following are the common full stop numbers:
f1.4, f2.0, f2.8, f4.0, f5.6, f.8, f16
This means that a lens of f2.0 lets in only half as much light as f1.4. It also means a f2.8 lens lets in only 1/4 of the light of the f1.4 lens. This means that by the time you get to f5.6, very little light is coming into the lens and it would be hard to use this lens in the dark.
A camera will divide aperture into either half or third stops. That is why you see numbers like f1.8 or f3.5.
A 24-70 f2.8 is a lens that can go from 24mm to 70mm. and has a maximum aperture of 2.8 the whole time (only one number). For a zoom lens, this is a good wide aperture. For prime lenses, which are lenses that cannot change, you can see f stops of f1.4 or f1.8.
Prime lenses are better than zooms because they have been engineered to precisely focus light at that distance. A zoom has to be engineered to focus light "pretty well" at a range of distances.
Lower f-numbers does not necessarily mean better quality. Strictly speaking, it only means that it can let in more light and therefore is more useful in the dark.
However, manufacturers tend to use the best optics and construction in lenses that have wide apertures, because wide aperture lenses are typically sold at a price premium.
It is a fair guess to say that a 50mm f1.4 probably has better optics than a 50mm f1.8. But this is not a rule. It might have better optics because it costs 2x more, but really, you are paying that amount for the better low light use.
Also, don't compare the sharpness of a zoom lens to a prime lens. They are different tools for different uses.
I hope that helps you read a lens and know what people are talking about.
Great, great instruction.
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by wackjum
The way the industry moves, I am always hesitant to drop bills on new consumer oriented equipment when the depreciation is so large. For a camera in the Rebel or D70 range, used but perfectly fine equipment shows up all the time on Craigslist from people who are in over their heads. Camera lenses and bodies are generally tough enough that even hammered equipment works fine. Photography is an expensive hobby so it is just a thought on saving money.
But if you want to buy new, perfectly acceptable. Now what should you buy?
I would hold off on the extra battery for now. Lithium ion batteries start to go bad the day they are manufactured. I think unless you are travelling or doing paid work, battery life won't be an issue. Better to buy an extra battery before you travel, then to buy one now and have it decay before you ever get to use it.
Your tripod will probably not be good enough for an SLR because they are significantly heavier than any point and shoot camera. Just a thought. Test it well before you trust it.
As stated before, lens caps come with the lens. The best lens cleaner is a microfiber cloth you can buy for $5 at any chain camera store (like Ritz or Wolf).
To UV filter or not... Personally I do not, but I am not a good example to learn from. I do paid work and I don't want more elements affecting my image or introducing flare. Do I really want a $15 piece of glass to start messing with the light before my $1,500 lens gets a crack at it?
That said, filters will keep stuff like salt spray at the ocean off of your lens. For a general purpose zoom lens you'll be carrying around for vacation or whatnot, I would put a filter on. But before you can buy the filter, you need to know what size your lens requires.
Personally, I am suspicious of package deals. I would rather assemble my own package from parts that fit what I am planning on doing.
But if you want to buy new, perfectly acceptable. Now what should you buy?
I would hold off on the extra battery for now. Lithium ion batteries start to go bad the day they are manufactured. I think unless you are travelling or doing paid work, battery life won't be an issue. Better to buy an extra battery before you travel, then to buy one now and have it decay before you ever get to use it.
Your tripod will probably not be good enough for an SLR because they are significantly heavier than any point and shoot camera. Just a thought. Test it well before you trust it.
As stated before, lens caps come with the lens. The best lens cleaner is a microfiber cloth you can buy for $5 at any chain camera store (like Ritz or Wolf).
To UV filter or not... Personally I do not, but I am not a good example to learn from. I do paid work and I don't want more elements affecting my image or introducing flare. Do I really want a $15 piece of glass to start messing with the light before my $1,500 lens gets a crack at it?
That said, filters will keep stuff like salt spray at the ocean off of your lens. For a general purpose zoom lens you'll be carrying around for vacation or whatnot, I would put a filter on. But before you can buy the filter, you need to know what size your lens requires.
Personally, I am suspicious of package deals. I would rather assemble my own package from parts that fit what I am planning on doing.
Thanks for the tip on battery. I guess I will wait until later for that.
Actually, I have a very nice tripot that was gifted to my dad from someone. He is letting me have it so this should work fine. I tried w/ brother's SLR on it and worked well.
yeah, after reading your posts, I think I'm just going to assemble my own little by little.
man, I wish I had a expert person like you as a friend....
Master Graphic Artist
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 0
From: Northbrook, IL
D300 would be nice, I really wanted to pull the trigger on that. But I couldn't justify the spend with photography being just a hobby.
I have a 40D as well and I love it, I'm now Canonized. The 24-70L Is a beautiful lens and is perfect for portraits on trhe 1.6x body. Canon's lenses are also 30% cheaper than the Nikon equivalents (for most at least).
I have a 40D as well and I love it, I'm now Canonized. The 24-70L Is a beautiful lens and is perfect for portraits on trhe 1.6x body. Canon's lenses are also 30% cheaper than the Nikon equivalents (for most at least).
CL9 ABP
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,528
Likes: 245
From: Commack, Long Island -> Queens NY
I say go for new d80 750 range i think look at amazon, start off with the 50mm 1.8 about 110
then find a the kit lens 18-55 if you need zoom try get 18-70
not sure if thats the 1 but its a good idea.
I started with 18-135 wasn't a fan always wanted sharper glass.
then find a the kit lens 18-55 if you need zoom try get 18-70
not sure if thats the 1 but its a good idea.
I started with 18-135 wasn't a fan always wanted sharper glass.
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by lcrazyaznl
I say go for new d80 750 range i think look at amazon, start off with the 50mm 1.8 about 110
then find a the kit lens 18-55 if you need zoom try get 18-70
not sure if thats the 1 but its a good idea.
I started with 18-135 wasn't a fan always wanted sharper glass.
then find a the kit lens 18-55 if you need zoom try get 18-70
not sure if thats the 1 but its a good idea.
I started with 18-135 wasn't a fan always wanted sharper glass.
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-10-2MP-D...2914345&sr=1-3
now with four rings
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
From: Bixby, OK
noink? canonite? 
when i hear nikon i think 'icon'...or ikon...
...as in being a part of the company setting the standard for photographic quality... 
when i hear canon i think not-so-accurate tank weapon...
(yes i know canon and cannon are spelled different)...
just messin' with ya cannies...
and yes i know the D300 is near the $2k range, but damn, you start off with $1000 from your parents, might as well match it with your own money and get one badass DSLR...i would...
by the way, i paid $899 + tax for my D80 with 18-55mm lens kit from buydig.com back in august 2007...you should be able to find a lower price than that now...
when i hear nikon i think 'icon'...or ikon...
...as in being a part of the company setting the standard for photographic quality... when i hear canon i think not-so-accurate tank weapon...
(yes i know canon and cannon are spelled different)...just messin' with ya cannies...
and yes i know the D300 is near the $2k range, but damn, you start off with $1000 from your parents, might as well match it with your own money and get one badass DSLR...i would...
by the way, i paid $899 + tax for my D80 with 18-55mm lens kit from buydig.com back in august 2007...you should be able to find a lower price than that now...
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by rimz
noink? canonite?
when i hear nikon i think 'icon'...or ikon... ...as in being a part of the company setting the standard for photographic quality...
when i hear canon i think not-so-accurate tank weapon... (yes i know canon and cannon are spelled different)...
just messin' with ya cannies...
and yes i know the D300 is near the $2k range, but damn, you start off with $1000 from your parents, might as well match it with your own money and get one badass DSLR...i would...
by the way, i paid $899 + tax for my D80 with 18-55mm lens kit from buydig.com back in august 2007...you should be able to find a lower price than that now...
when i hear nikon i think 'icon'...or ikon...
...as in being a part of the company setting the standard for photographic quality... when i hear canon i think not-so-accurate tank weapon...
(yes i know canon and cannon are spelled different)...just messin' with ya cannies...
and yes i know the D300 is near the $2k range, but damn, you start off with $1000 from your parents, might as well match it with your own money and get one badass DSLR...i would...
by the way, i paid $899 + tax for my D80 with 18-55mm lens kit from buydig.com back in august 2007...you should be able to find a lower price than that now...
I'm not in hurry to buy right now so I guess I will look around to find a good deal. I never heard of buydig.com. I'm glad that you mentioned....
Last edited by S14 n Tsx; Jun 9, 2008 at 02:02 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,683
Likes: 213
From: CA
Originally Posted by rimz
noink? canonite?
when i hear nikon i think 'icon'...or ikon... ...as in being a part of the company setting the standard for photographic quality...
when i hear canon i think not-so-accurate tank weapon... (yes i know canon and cannon are spelled different)...
just messin' with ya cannies...
and yes i know the D300 is near the $2k range, but damn, you start off with $1000 from your parents, might as well match it with your own money and get one badass DSLR...i would...
by the way, i paid $899 + tax for my D80 with 18-55mm lens kit from buydig.com back in august 2007...you should be able to find a lower price than that now...
when i hear nikon i think 'icon'...or ikon...
...as in being a part of the company setting the standard for photographic quality... when i hear canon i think not-so-accurate tank weapon...
(yes i know canon and cannon are spelled different)...just messin' with ya cannies...
and yes i know the D300 is near the $2k range, but damn, you start off with $1000 from your parents, might as well match it with your own money and get one badass DSLR...i would...
by the way, i paid $899 + tax for my D80 with 18-55mm lens kit from buydig.com back in august 2007...you should be able to find a lower price than that now...
hahaha its all good
Master Graphic Artist
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 0
From: Northbrook, IL
Originally Posted by S14 n Tsx
I wish I can match my own money to get D300. This is going to be my first SLR camera so I don't want to go too advanced.
I'm not in hurry to buy right now so I guess I will look around to find a good deal. I never heard of buydig.com. I'm glad that you mentioned....
I'm not in hurry to buy right now so I guess I will look around to find a good deal. I never heard of buydig.com. I'm glad that you mentioned....
But definately get a body you want, but make sure you buy GOOD GLASS. Your lens will retain value much better than your body. On the premier line of Nikkor 17-55 2.8, 24-70 2.8, etc if you buy it used from FM or Nikonians you can resell it years later for maybe a 15% loss. Then again you're talking about $1000 lenses.
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by Mizouse
1K plus a few hundred?
get a 40D + 28-135 lens!!!!
get a 40D + 28-135 lens!!!!
is learning to moonwalk i
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,520
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by S14 n Tsx
after talking to mizouse and pixelharmony, I decided to join the dark side. I am going to get this exact same setup.
You have restored my faith in mankind's ability to think clearly and reason.Congrats. When do you get them?
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by moeronn
You have restored my faith in mankind's ability to think clearly and reason.Congrats. When do you get them?
is learning to moonwalk i
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,520
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by S14 n Tsx
thank you, sir. I am thinking either tonight or tomorrow. I am trying to beat $1200 h+b's price right now if not I just going to get it from them.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...R_Digital.html
Suzuka Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,167
Likes: 142
Go for the D300 and call it a day!
D300 with a 50mm f1.8 can be had for $1790 on Amazon...FTW!
40D is old technology...FTL!
Spend the extra $600! The LCD alone on the D300 justifies the price, better high iso noise, unbelievable AF Dynamic 3D tracking system, a truer live-view, etc... the list goes on and on...
Goto your local brick & mortar store and hold a 40D and then hold a D300 in your hand...nuff said.
D300 with a 50mm f1.8 can be had for $1790 on Amazon...FTW!
40D is old technology...FTL!
Spend the extra $600! The LCD alone on the D300 justifies the price, better high iso noise, unbelievable AF Dynamic 3D tracking system, a truer live-view, etc... the list goes on and on...
Goto your local brick & mortar store and hold a 40D and then hold a D300 in your hand...nuff said.
is learning to moonwalk i
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,520
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by CLovis
Go for the D300 and call it a day!
D300 with a 50mm f1.8 can be had for $1790 on Amazon...FTW!
40D is old technology...FTL!
Spend the extra $600! The LCD alone on the D300 justifies the price, better high iso noise, unbelievable AF Dynamic 3D tracking system, a truer live-view, etc... the list goes on and on...
Goto your local brick & mortar store and hold a 40D and then hold a D300 in your hand...nuff said.
D300 with a 50mm f1.8 can be had for $1790 on Amazon...FTW!
40D is old technology...FTL!
Spend the extra $600! The LCD alone on the D300 justifies the price, better high iso noise, unbelievable AF Dynamic 3D tracking system, a truer live-view, etc... the list goes on and on...
Goto your local brick & mortar store and hold a 40D and then hold a D300 in your hand...nuff said.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,167
Likes: 142
Originally Posted by moeronn
I am by no means saying that the 40D is better than the D300, as that is definitely not the case. But you are talking about a 50% price increase for someone who will likely not make a dime in return.
Last edited by CLovis; Jun 11, 2008 at 06:41 PM.
is learning to moonwalk i
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,520
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by CLovis
i look at it this way... why save the 33% off the D300 and get the 40D, when the 40D isnt 2/3 the camera a D300 is...
Seriously, if there wasn't a market and "need" for other performance/feature levels, then there wouldn't be so many different models.
Thread Starter
mmmmmm....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,524
Likes: 95
From: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted by moeronn
When I searched for it on B+H it came up as 1129.95 + Shipping.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...R_Digital.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...R_Digital.html
is learning to moonwalk i
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,520
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by S14 n Tsx
Yeah, that's the one that I looking at. Good deal or decent deal?
Even if you found it for a few dollars less, I'd still feel more comfortable getting it from a reputable dealer (B+H, Adorama, etc) than saving a couple of dollars and getting it somewhere else.