entry dSLR model or a "megazoom" type point and shoot?
09-20-2007, 10:40 PM
#1
I shoot people
Thread Starter
entry dSLR model or a "megazoom" type point and shoot?
okay guys, I need your advice... In December I'll be visiting Europe for the first time... and I really wanna capture the trip with memorable pics... Right now, I have a Canon A710 IS... which I'll be bringing along anyways... but I'm starting to think that perhaps... I should look into something... well... something better 
...help me decide if I should go with an entry model dSLR like Canon XT/XTi or just get something like the Canon S5 IS.
...and IF, you suggest an entry model dSLR... should I just get the XT or the XTi? (or the Nikon D40 vs D40x).
Or if you guys know of any other brand with a good entry model dSLR please chime in, thanks in advance.
...help me decide if I should go with an entry model dSLR like Canon XT/XTi or just get something like the Canon S5 IS.
...and IF, you suggest an entry model dSLR... should I just get the XT or the XTi? (or the Nikon D40 vs D40x).
Or if you guys know of any other brand with a good entry model dSLR please chime in, thanks in advance.
09-20-2007, 11:14 PM
#3
I shoot people
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by moeronn
What is that you think your current camera is lacking?
last December, I took a cruise... and ya know now on board those ships... they always have their own photographers? They go around taking pics of everybody... and you can view them and decide if you wanna pay (an arm and a leg) for them? Anyway, it just seem like they always came out great when I thought they wouldn't be... And they all used dSLR's... I had a roommate that had a XT, and the same thing happened... we went somewhere, and took a bunch of pics... where I thought to myself... "I know THAT came out bad". But almost all of them were great! She took some outdoor/scenic type pics... when I had my A710 IS... and her's came out better... maybe she was just better at taking pics?
Or maybe it's just in my head... so....
09-20-2007, 11:30 PM
#4
I shoot people
Thread Starter
oh, and also... I like how with the standard lens on a XT/XTi it's 18mm-55mm... 18mm for the scenic shots...
09-21-2007, 12:13 AM
#5
Safety Car
Originally Posted by is300eater
well, I can't really give you an exact answer to that question... but I'll explain why I feel like I should get something a step up...
last December, I took a cruise... and ya know now on board those ships... they always have their own photographers? They go around taking pics of everybody... and you can view them and decide if you wanna pay (an arm and a leg) for them? Anyway, it just seem like they always came out great when I thought they wouldn't be... And they all used dSLR's... I had a roommate that had a XT, and the same thing happened... we went somewhere, and took a bunch of pics... where I thought to myself... "I know THAT came out bad". But almost all of them were great! She took some outdoor/scenic type pics... when I had my A710 IS... and her's came out better... maybe she was just better at taking pics? Or maybe it's just in my head... so....
last December, I took a cruise... and ya know now on board those ships... they always have their own photographers? They go around taking pics of everybody... and you can view them and decide if you wanna pay (an arm and a leg) for them? Anyway, it just seem like they always came out great when I thought they wouldn't be... And they all used dSLR's... I had a roommate that had a XT, and the same thing happened... we went somewhere, and took a bunch of pics... where I thought to myself... "I know THAT came out bad". But almost all of them were great! She took some outdoor/scenic type pics... when I had my A710 IS... and her's came out better... maybe she was just better at taking pics?
Or maybe it's just in my head... so....An SLR makes things easier, but it is just a tool. My
If you get an SLR but you don't really know how to use it and just set it to auto, you will get pretty much the same pictures as a point and shoot set to auto.
09-21-2007, 12:17 AM
#6
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How crazy do you want to get into the field.
Rebel xti is what i started with for basic phtography and for a newspaper. great camera it got stolen
I also wanted more lenses....
Bought a d80 to try nikon out more agressive for what i may be going into. more money still want more lenses.
Rebel xti is what i started with for basic phtography and for a newspaper. great camera it got stolen
I also wanted more lenses....
Bought a d80 to try nikon out more agressive for what i may be going into. more money still want more lenses.
09-21-2007, 01:19 AM
#7
Drifting
I was debating between nice NICE P&S and an SLR almost a year ago. I was glad I went w/ the SLR. But I was interested in taking up photography more as a hobby, not just recording a trip, or taking pictures of friends. An SLR has a lot more room to grow, but it'll cost more money in the long run. At least lenses are more of an investment, in that you know they won't go obsolete quite as quickly as the body itself.
I carried around my XT throughout Japan for two weeks, and I thought it was fine, as it was pretty light. But it's definitely not as convieniet as carrying a camera in your pocket. I've always wanted to upgrade to an XTi, so I'd probably just buy that if you have a choice. Even the XTi seems like it's due for a replacement pretty soon w/ the annoucement of the 40D and the digicIII making it into the SLR's.
If you do go w/ an SLR, I'd recommend buying it a month or two in advance, and learn how to use it pretty good before your trip.
I carried around my XT throughout Japan for two weeks, and I thought it was fine, as it was pretty light. But it's definitely not as convieniet as carrying a camera in your pocket. I've always wanted to upgrade to an XTi, so I'd probably just buy that if you have a choice. Even the XTi seems like it's due for a replacement pretty soon w/ the annoucement of the 40D and the digicIII making it into the SLR's.
If you do go w/ an SLR, I'd recommend buying it a month or two in advance, and learn how to use it pretty good before your trip.
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09-21-2007, 01:24 AM
#8
I shoot people
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by wackjum
If you get an SLR but you don't really know how to use it and just set it to auto, you will get pretty much the same pictures as a point and shoot set to auto.
...anyway, it may or may not become a hobby, I guess that's something I'll have to figure out...
09-21-2007, 01:41 AM
#9
Safety Car
Originally Posted by wackjum
A bad photographer with a Canon 5D (one of the better Canon SLRs) will take bad pictures. A good photographer with a point and shoot (that has strong manual controls) can take excellent pictures.
An SLR makes things easier, but it is just a tool. My
If you get an SLR but you don't really know how to use it and just set it to auto, you will get pretty much the same pictures as a point and shoot set to auto.
An SLR makes things easier, but it is just a tool. My
If you get an SLR but you don't really know how to use it and just set it to auto, you will get pretty much the same pictures as a point and shoot set to auto.
You're just underestimating power of the "tools"
09-21-2007, 01:43 AM
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you're Asian, photography is in your blood 
09-21-2007, 01:49 AM
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well it really also depends on waht type of photos you're trying to take.
if you want to take more memorable photos that leave a great impression on the viewer, a dSLR will help you get that as will a p&s, but the dSLR gives you better control of what you want to achieve, but if you're just planning on taking snapshots of things to remember about the trip and just want good quality pictures, then i say go with a p&s
the main reason why i went with a dSLR is because i have that interest in photography, and a dSLR would give me better control of how i want an image to turn out.
if you want to take more memorable photos that leave a great impression on the viewer, a dSLR will help you get that as will a p&s, but the dSLR gives you better control of what you want to achieve, but if you're just planning on taking snapshots of things to remember about the trip and just want good quality pictures, then i say go with a p&s
the main reason why i went with a dSLR is because i have that interest in photography, and a dSLR would give me better control of how i want an image to turn out.
09-21-2007, 09:25 AM
#13
09-21-2007, 12:46 PM
#14
Safety Car
Originally Posted by yohan81718
I disagree. A bad photographer with 5D and L lens could take a decent picture whether it was intended or not. A good photographer with a P&S could take excellent picture but it's not going to be that easy.
You're just underestimating power of the "tools"
You're just underestimating power of the "tools"
At what point does the 5D and L lens combination do the thinking for the photographer? Does it ever tell the photographer where to the point the camera, what to focus on, use fill flash on a backlit subject?
Put a 5D and L lens in the hands of a novice and you're going to get sharper point and shoot photos. That's it.
09-21-2007, 12:55 PM
#15
Earth-bound misfit
Originally Posted by wackjum
Better tools = manual controls, faster shot to shot time, sharper pics, more light sensitivity.
At what point does the 5D and L lens combination do the thinking for the photographer? Does it ever tell the photographer where to the point the camera, what to focus on, use fill flash on a backlit subject?
Put a 5D and L lens in the hands of a novice and you're going to get sharper point and shoot photos. That's it.
At what point does the 5D and L lens combination do the thinking for the photographer? Does it ever tell the photographer where to the point the camera, what to focus on, use fill flash on a backlit subject?
Put a 5D and L lens in the hands of a novice and you're going to get sharper point and shoot photos. That's it.
09-21-2007, 12:58 PM
#16
Safety Car
To get back on target with the OP
You currently have an A series camera. Those are entry level digital cameras from Canon. You will see a big increase in photo quality if you get a S5, just as you would see an increase from getting an SLR.
But the difference between an S5 and an SLR is going to be nominal unless you can take advantage of the additional features of an SLR camera. This includes buying lenses and other accessories.
I would suggest that if you're not a photographer, get the S5. The extra zoom reach will be useful and the camera itself would be more portable. It will take much better pictures than your A series.
You currently have an A series camera. Those are entry level digital cameras from Canon. You will see a big increase in photo quality if you get a S5, just as you would see an increase from getting an SLR.
But the difference between an S5 and an SLR is going to be nominal unless you can take advantage of the additional features of an SLR camera. This includes buying lenses and other accessories.
I would suggest that if you're not a photographer, get the S5. The extra zoom reach will be useful and the camera itself would be more portable. It will take much better pictures than your A series.
09-21-2007, 01:09 PM
#17
I shoot people
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by wackjum
To get back on target with the OP
You currently have an A series camera. Those are entry level digital cameras from Canon. You will see a big increase in photo quality if you get a S5, just as you would see an increase from getting an SLR.
But the difference between an S5 and an SLR is going to be nominal unless you can take advantage of the additional features of an SLR camera. This includes buying lenses and other accessories.
I would suggest that if you're not a photographer, get the S5. The extra zoom reach will be useful and the camera itself would be more portable. It will take much better pictures than your A series.
You currently have an A series camera. Those are entry level digital cameras from Canon. You will see a big increase in photo quality if you get a S5, just as you would see an increase from getting an SLR.
But the difference between an S5 and an SLR is going to be nominal unless you can take advantage of the additional features of an SLR camera. This includes buying lenses and other accessories.
I would suggest that if you're not a photographer, get the S5. The extra zoom reach will be useful and the camera itself would be more portable. It will take much better pictures than your A series.
09-21-2007, 01:48 PM
#18
Also with the S5 you have the option of adding a lens conversation kit, for wider or longer reaches.
If you want more control of your pictures after you put them in the computer, Canon's G9 will shoot raw, also you can use lens conversion kit as well. But it's 5 bills
If you want more control of your pictures after you put them in the computer, Canon's G9 will shoot raw, also you can use lens conversion kit as well. But it's 5 bills
09-21-2007, 01:57 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by wackjum
Better tools = manual controls, faster shot to shot time, sharper pics, more light sensitivity.
At what point does the 5D and L lens combination do the thinking for the photographer? Does it ever tell the photographer where to the point the camera, what to focus on, use fill flash on a backlit subject?
Put a 5D and L lens in the hands of a novice and you're going to get sharper point and shoot photos. That's it.
At what point does the 5D and L lens combination do the thinking for the photographer? Does it ever tell the photographer where to the point the camera, what to focus on, use fill flash on a backlit subject?
Put a 5D and L lens in the hands of a novice and you're going to get sharper point and shoot photos. That's it.
The tool gives you much more flexibility and performance, but it's also a lot more complex. Plus, with a D-SLR it's expected by the manufacturer that the shooter be willing to take on a certain amount of post processing.IS300eater you have to decide what your longterm uses for a camera are going to be. If you think you might end up taking on photography as a hobby, then an SLR migh be a sound investment, but definitely give yourself time to learn the camera before taking it on an important trip.
One of the super zooms might be a good option; good image quality, portable, and you'll still have access to manual controls and different shooting modes.
09-21-2007, 02:02 PM
#20
Senior Moderator
I just recently came back from Europe, and the high ISO capability on my DSRL was invaluable. If you will be visiting lots of museums and churches, which Europe is full of, you'll want this ability.
Also, you'll need w-i-d-e angles, alot more than zoomed in.
That was my experience anyways.
Also, you'll need w-i-d-e angles, alot more than zoomed in.
That was my experience anyways.
09-21-2007, 02:04 PM
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yea, i wish i had more practice with my dSLR before i went to Hawaii 
09-21-2007, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wackjum
To get back on target with the OP
You currently have an A series camera. Those are entry level digital cameras from Canon. You will see a big increase in photo quality if you get a S5, just as you would see an increase from getting an SLR.
But the difference between an S5 and an SLR is going to be nominal unless you can take advantage of the additional features of an SLR camera. This includes buying lenses and other accessories.
I would suggest that if you're not a photographer, get the S5. The extra zoom reach will be useful and the camera itself would be more portable. It will take much better pictures than your A series.
You currently have an A series camera. Those are entry level digital cameras from Canon. You will see a big increase in photo quality if you get a S5, just as you would see an increase from getting an SLR.
But the difference between an S5 and an SLR is going to be nominal unless you can take advantage of the additional features of an SLR camera. This includes buying lenses and other accessories.
I would suggest that if you're not a photographer, get the S5. The extra zoom reach will be useful and the camera itself would be more portable. It will take much better pictures than your A series.
meh... the A-series can still take fantastic pictures:
http://photo.net/photodb/presentatio...tion_id=317651
09-21-2007, 02:10 PM
#23
^^ That's true but Wilson has many years of experience with many different cameras.
09-21-2007, 02:17 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by jupitersolo
^^ That's true but Wilson has many years of experience with many different cameras.
This is true. But it proves the point that just about any digi-camera available now that has a moderate amount of manual controls can take great photos.
I would invest in learning how to use the A710IS before heading out and dropping hundreds of dollars on more equipment.
09-21-2007, 02:20 PM
#25
Originally Posted by mrsteve
This is true. But it proves the point that just about any digi-camera available now that has a moderate amount of manual controls can take great photos.
I would invest in learning how to use the A710IS before heading out and dropping hundreds of dollars on more equipment.
I would invest in learning how to use the A710IS before heading out and dropping hundreds of dollars on more equipment.
09-21-2007, 02:23 PM
#26
Safety Car
Originally Posted by mrsteve
This is true. But it proves the point that just about any digi-camera available now that has a moderate amount of manual controls can take great photos.
I would invest in learning how to use the A710IS before heading out and dropping hundreds of dollars on more equipment.
I would invest in learning how to use the A710IS before heading out and dropping hundreds of dollars on more equipment.
But the OP seems to be disappointed with his. While some of it might be user error, I think the more advanced logic on the better cameras will help out.
09-21-2007, 02:26 PM
#27
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True. But like what was posted above. Even a Canon 5D is gonna take crappy pics in the hands of an inexperienced user. If one doesn't understand the basics (apeture, exposure, iso, etc) they aren't going to succeed.
So yes, if I was going to Europe I would want a better camera than the A710IS. But, unless I'm going to continue the exploration of photography as a hobby I wouldn't go out and buy a XTi.
The S5IS is a good choice but I wouldn't expect the quality of the pictures to magically improve over the A710IS just because the device changes. Some basic understanding and knowledge of why the DSLR photos he has seen are better quality would be more valuable than just buying a new camera.
So yes, if I was going to Europe I would want a better camera than the A710IS. But, unless I'm going to continue the exploration of photography as a hobby I wouldn't go out and buy a XTi.
The S5IS is a good choice but I wouldn't expect the quality of the pictures to magically improve over the A710IS just because the device changes. Some basic understanding and knowledge of why the DSLR photos he has seen are better quality would be more valuable than just buying a new camera.
09-21-2007, 02:27 PM
#28
^^^ Agree, no SLR now, a better P&S yes.
09-21-2007, 02:36 PM
#29
I shoot people
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jupitersolo
^^^ Agree, no SLR now, a better P&S yes.
09-21-2007, 02:50 PM
#31
I don't know anything about Panny's. The S5IS has a lens conversation kit to use a wider angle lens, you could also go with the S3IS that was last years model, which sells on amazon for about $70 less than the S5IS.
09-21-2007, 03:10 PM
#32
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The wide angle conversion lens eliminates your ability to use the built in flash. It will cast a shadow.
I had the wide angle and tele-photo conversion lenses for my G6 and the results were great as long as you didn't need the flash with the wide angle (i.e., indoors):
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3 (indoors with flash)
I had the wide angle and tele-photo conversion lenses for my G6 and the results were great as long as you didn't need the flash with the wide angle (i.e., indoors):
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3 (indoors with flash)
09-21-2007, 03:27 PM
#33
man, that flash pic.
09-21-2007, 03:34 PM
#34
is learning to moonwalk i
Originally Posted by jupitersolo
man, that flash pic.
Like trying to use the 17-40 with the lens hood and built-in flash. 
I think you are better off with the P&S over the dSLR.
09-21-2007, 03:41 PM
#35
^^ The first time I used my 10-22mm even without the flash, the light was behind.
09-24-2007, 03:07 PM
#37
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I have an older Fuji S5100 and I love that camera... At least up until going to the Airventure airshow in OshKosh WI this year.
Until the airshow I would have not thought of buying another camera. I love to take photos, but am not particularly talented, nor do I shoot a lot. The S5100 has a 37mm to 370mm (35mm equivalent) lens and all the manual adjustments I could want, plus it shoots in RAW format if I so desire. However what I found at the airshow is that it is slow as molasses in a Wisconsin February. Shooting planes in the air took a lot of guessing and many shots were ruined because of the delay between button press and actual "shutter release." Outside of that one thing it is a fantastic camera (well ok there is a bit of vignetting at wide angles, but that isn't a big deal.)
My airshow shots are on Picasa if you'd like to take a look.
CanopyFlyer's 2007 EAA Airventure Air Show trip album
I'd love to have a camera that is much more responsive. From what I understand though is only DSLR's really have that kind of ability.
Is that correct or is there a P&S out there that can match a DSLR in responsiveness?
CanopyFlyer
Until the airshow I would have not thought of buying another camera. I love to take photos, but am not particularly talented, nor do I shoot a lot. The S5100 has a 37mm to 370mm (35mm equivalent) lens and all the manual adjustments I could want, plus it shoots in RAW format if I so desire. However what I found at the airshow is that it is slow as molasses in a Wisconsin February. Shooting planes in the air took a lot of guessing and many shots were ruined because of the delay between button press and actual "shutter release." Outside of that one thing it is a fantastic camera (well ok there is a bit of vignetting at wide angles, but that isn't a big deal.)
My airshow shots are on Picasa if you'd like to take a look.
CanopyFlyer's 2007 EAA Airventure Air Show trip album
I'd love to have a camera that is much more responsive. From what I understand though is only DSLR's really have that kind of ability.
Is that correct or is there a P&S out there that can match a DSLR in responsiveness?
CanopyFlyer
09-26-2007, 03:07 PM
#38
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by CanopyFlyer
I'd love to have a camera that is much more responsive. From what I understand though is only DSLR's really have that kind of ability.
Is that correct or is there a P&S out there that can match a DSLR in responsiveness?
CanopyFlyer
Is that correct or is there a P&S out there that can match a DSLR in responsiveness?
CanopyFlyer
Shooting pictures of moving targets is a fairly specialized operation.
Usually you can get away with prefocusing on a spot and waiting.
DSLRS are way more responsive, but usually you don't need that level of responsiveness.
09-26-2007, 03:10 PM
#39
Moderator Alumnus
Another direction to consider is to get a compact point and shoot.
Even if you have a DSLR you'll want a compact P&S anyway, for convenience, or
for movie modes.
I'm on a trip, and have both a DSLR & P&S and the P&S gets a pretty decent amount
of use.
- Frank
Even if you have a DSLR you'll want a compact P&S anyway, for convenience, or
for movie modes.
I'm on a trip, and have both a DSLR & P&S and the P&S gets a pretty decent amount
of use.
- Frank
09-26-2007, 03:22 PM
#40
I shoot people
Thread Starter
oh, when I do go on my trip... I DO plan on bring the P&S too... I have a fairly decent one right now... a Canon A710 IS... has some manual settings.