gilboman

please provide examples of any sports car that use FWD..., or any real performance car that uses FWD? and the carry over brakes are a HUGE dissapointment 186ft from 70mph... that is just sad.

gilboman

are you sure they make a 325xi?? i havent seen a single one on the road...i really have no idea about the clubtsx thread..was it the one where i drove a 325ci and liked it? and that got you confused? i didnt know the 325xi existed until i read the replys here.

Davediego

i already gave you one, realtime racing's rsx, but heres several more
http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2003/entrylist-tc.html
gee, what kind of platform is up at the top?

the brakes i agree are dissapointing, part of it is the compound but the TL definitely needs bigger brakes. the MT with brembos should do a bit better

lakeman

Having owned several German cars, from a 64 VW bug, 2 Audis, an 86 911, and a 95 325 Conv., I have loved the perfromance, but about had it with the reliabilty issues. I have also owned several Hondas, and the last one, a 96 Accord, had one repair in 80K miles (a switch knob). The 04 TSX and the 04 TL offer me the reliability I like, with performance CLOSE to the German elite. I need more room, and the TL, regardless of the specs, is very roomy in actual use compared to the competition. And the awesome interior, sound system, and navi, can't be found anywhere near the TL's price.

vandy786_RENAMED2

The reason why many people are not talking about the new TL on the other forums is because they are afraid... The old TLS could keep up with or beat any 3 series (excluding M3), G35, Maxima, ES300, GS300, A4, etc in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

fdefulvio

I'd like to know what percentage of BMW sales are made up of manual trans. and performance package. I bet the majority of the BMW 3 series on the road consist of automatics and the base suspension. Everybody tries comparing the top "sport tuned" cars from other manufacturers with the base TL. Acura offers the manual with added performance features for those willing to accept a less comfortable ride for better performance. Acura will have no problem selling 60K plus TLs to the masses who could care less that the TL doesn't perform quite as well as a $40K BMW. The majority of car buyers are not obsessed like the people who frequent these forums. On an apples-to-apples comparison, that BMW emblem costs about $5,000.

lamster

Of course they have 325xi offered in Canada, in both the Sedan and Touring classes:

- 325xi Sedan: starts from $42,450 (CDN), 184 HP, 0-100kmph in 8.2 seconds.
- 325xi Touring: starts from $43,950 (CDN), 184 HP, 0-100kmph in 8.4 seconds.

Read more info from http://www.bmw.ca before you post.

gilboman

if you look at my post, you will see the line where i said i didnt know it existed until i read this post... so i now know of their existance...so please comprehend my post before replying

gilboman

so can a Maxima they dont mention it because it doesnt even register on their radar screen...but there was lots of talk on all forums when G35 came, even the M6 to a lesser extent

justinjsw

Mr. Gilboman don't let your own words bite you in the ass...

gilboman
Registered User

Joined: Jan 2003
why dont you go actually drive a 325xi and see?? and the xi is not a performance enhancing 4wd option..it is for snow/rain...and yes it is slower than the rwd version without helping in the handling department as well....the 4wd option makes sense for people who are uncomfortable with rwd in the snow...and not because it enhances performance...also think about the 325 is a inline6 and has a bigger torque/horsepower curve throughout the power band compared to the tsx eventhough the tsx has i-vtech.

Maybe you don't remember everything you say but I do. Your own words Mr Gilboman...I didn't know the 325XI existed...dude whatever.

lamster

You haven't seen one 325xi on the road? I mean, come on. You're obviously into BMW's and European cars so I would imagine you have better knowledge about what car models they make. Don't you think?

If you're from Canada (someone mentioned this earlier), the 3 and 5 serious are very popular here. Especially in Toronto where I live, I see the 3 series more often than I see people using the signal lights when turning.

I'm not trying to stir anything up here ... So life goes on.

justinjsw

He knows there is a 325Xi on the road. He talked about it himself.


gilboman
Registered User

Joined: Jan 2003

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by STL
I actually agree, and I'm not in favor of an AWD TSX. I only brought it up because of this comment he made, "166ft/torque..200bhp...3200lb car, it has its work cut out moving 2wheels let alone 4". Based on his same logic the 325xi...with 175ft/lb..184bhp...3300lb car, it should have its work cut out moving 2wheels let alone 4 AND therefore the 325i...with 175ft/lb..184bhp...3200lb car, it should have its work cut out moving 2wheels!

It's just funny how he tries to use something to say the TSX is going to be slow and a non-performer when some of that SAME logic can be applied to the 325i (which he seems to hold in such high esteem) with the same conclusions!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

didnt' you read anything? did i ever say the 325xi benifits from its 4wd system performance wise? i said the 4wd system in the bimmer is for bad weather only and didnt do jack for performance. you bought up the 325 so i told you the way it is...it has its max torque at at 3500 and likewise with the TSX the torque band is throughout the powercurve...therefore there is a torque advantage throughout the powercurve and is therefore more suited than the tsx for 4wd drive duty than the...torque is vital in getting any car 2wd or 4wd but especially 4wd to start moving...torque is wat gets you moving,

and i will say it again... 200hp,166lb/ft torque has its work cut out moving 3200lb and 2 wheels let alone 4 in a "sports sedan" ...same with the 325.....the 4wd has a 0.6sec slower 0-60 time (8.2 vs 7.6)....this is where my logic came from..if the bimmer with more torque available even earlier than the TSX and suffers performancewise from a 4wd..then the TSX even more so... but you had to argue that somehow 200bhp and 166torque in a 3200lb ft car is good in a sports sedan. i dont think you should've bought up the bimmer at all... one is FWD other is RWD...even if the RWD has less power, it will be better at putting it to the ground. And i dont think i need to talk about which is better for handling.

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01-25-2003, 05:27 PM

justinjsw

Mr. Gilboman go ahead tell all of us again how you didn't know a 325Xi existed till a couple days ago. You the great defender of the great BMW mystic.

justinjsw

I think you need to comprehend your own post.

BradW

Justin owns gilboman lol

RJC RSX

trolls

justinjsw

After a year im tired of hearing Gilbomans broken record.

jwaters943

I just wanted to comment on Gilbo's comments on the TL's brakes. Yes, the brakes are largely a carryover from the previous TL....HOWEVER, with wider tires, Electronic Brake Distribution & Brake Assist the new TL stops with much more authority. I should know as I've actually owned a '99 TL and have driven the new '04 extensively.

As a BMW owner you should know about judging cars superficially. On the surface a BMW 330i looks like nothing special. From the specs, 225hp seems quite inadequate given it's curb weight and intended market, but it's a different thing once you drive it right?

On a side note, what kind of person comes to a site to complain about a car they don't own and have never driven?!? If you're so happy with your clearly superior BMW, why concern yourself with the TL or the members of this forum who are interested in it?

dmac_RENAMED

to teh person who was complaining about carryover brakes...get the 6mt and u will get BREMBOS..or can u not drive a stick

justinjsw

Good point.

He has been at this for a yr. It started with the TSX over at you know where. For a while it's all fun and games but damn enough is enough. I wonder what his response is to this whole thread now.

Jason

He'll ignore it since he looks like an ass now. He doesn't have the stones to respond.

provench

I got your stones right here ...



Maybe we should fire up a 325 vs. TSX thread to distract Gilbo from the TL folks for a bit

Raheel

Or you can get A-Spec with Better Brake Pads, yes we know A-Spec is a expensive option, but when is a high priced option anything new for a German Car Owner .

gilboman

wow....great detective work.... so this shows what? i forgot about a car that i didnt care about? that thread was you saying BMW's awd system is not performance based and i agreed, that the 325xi is slow..just like the TSX would be if it had to move 4 wheels, but even slower b/c of low torque...... and back to the original question...where did i mention or imply i had a 325xi???? since you like to remember everythign i say and go through the trouble of searching for it...can you do it for me?

gilboman

b/c this is a message board and not a fan club..... i asked a simple question of why ppl were so enthusastic about a car that i didnt see any reason for being enthusatic about...

another FWD sedan from acura, yet people are saying it competes with 5 series, A6 and E class... and hopefully i can get some of the powerful stuff they are smoking.

but i will be the first to acknowledge a few categories my BMW is not superior ...power,price/value, i dont view it as superior all around car..just better at driving enjoyment and confidence driving it.... i seem like the anti-acura person because i dont belive value is everything in a car, especially a luxury/sporty one..but acura is all about features/price...a good value but nothing great other than price...and tranny.... wal mart is a good value for most stuff, but that doesnt mean i dont like to buy a nice Armani suit beause it's not as good a value...

gilboman

please understand differnce between a troll and somebody with an opposing opinon....

gilboman

...brembo's are nice... but what about the normal TL's?? dont they deserve good brakes too?...how hard could it have been to upgrade the rotors/calipers?? they can cut costs in materials..but shouldnt cut costs on brakes.

Jason

But the thing is, buying the TL is like getting Joseph Abboud at wal-mart. Not quite as nice as Armani, but a great looking suit at a terrific price. I'd rather be Abbouded up.

Peter7777

Do people still wear suits? I thought they went out with neckties in the 90s

But seriously the instrument cluster on the TL looks so much more futuristic than any of the BMW models. For that reason alone the Bimmer never entered my mind when making the comparison.

DISRUPTV

if i paid $40K+ for a 4dr w/compact size interior and questionable reliability, i'd probably proclaim it was the greatest thing since TV too


Everyone knows dynamically the TL will not be able to comptete 10/10 w/the rwd sedans...but who drives their cars on the streets at 8/10 let alone 10/10....the question is how much of a tradeoff can you live with? Most people here can live w/the fact they will save $5k in cash, have a car they can drive in the winter, all the latest safety and luxury items, altho they will have a fwd instead of a rwd car instead....o yea, dont 4get reliability as well


If acura does make an awd car, it'll be interesting to see how gilboman attacks that

claudw

Great point, "unsure"!!! Most , actually more like 95+ % of the people who I see driving BMWs would not know the difference if their car was front wheel drive, except that it would go better in the snow. If you want to drive fast, like that 8/10s, FWD is the way to go. Its much easier to drive fast, and safer too. If you overcook a curve, you just let off, and the front end will tuck back in and quit over steering.
I mostly see old women and fat assed old, 50+ men driving 5 and 7 series BMWs. I usually ask myself at least once a week why is that 50-60 year old woman driving a 540i, not a 525/530i.
I'm sure they wonder why this semi fat 55 year old is driving this kiddie car and even shifting for himself. Its because its one hell of a lot more fun to drive than my old Lexus GS 400. The TSX is the modern equivalent of my old 1972 BMW 2002ti. If the TSX had the TLs seats, and sound system, I would not even think about moving up.

justinjsw

First of that wasn't me saying anything at all...just you. Second yes I will do it for you...cause its already been done...I just didn't want to make you look like the ass that you already are. You the great defender of Bmw...forgot there was a 325Xi...so what it is you forgot or never heard of it.

It shows where your mindset is...you like to dig up every damn number, specs, graph to bring down Honda and bitch and complain for a yr...who cares man?

larchmont

At the risk of offending the mentioned demographic which BTW some people might say I'm a member of but they'd be wrong Claudw is right on. I used to have a 320i and there were advantages over the Acuras I've had since then, but they were very slight, and were far outweighed by the Acuras' advantages, including what Claudw said. Of course I can see how people prefer the FWD, but it's hard to see how most of the people who actually drive those cars could prefer it. And when you add the reliability difference between BMW and Acura (at least currently), there's even more question.

iNteGraz92

omg, how many times can gilbo get owned in his own threads
LOL

ILOVELEGEND

Guys we just need to ignore this ass! He has no credibility whatsoever! You SUCK man!

RJC RSX

I do, and you come off as a troll

Jason

Not a troll, a gentleman troll. I think there's a difference.

prballard

I am still enthusatic about the 2004 TL. From my test drive (which was very critical in part) the 2004 TL is a much better car in many ways than the 03. I drove the 5AT. I still believe the handling, performance, and brakes will be much better with the 6MT. Those dealers that have driven the 6MT, please tell me if I am wrong.

The TL is FWD of course, not RWD. I for one hold out hope for hybrid AWD Acuras. Call me crazy if you will. I would hate to see Acura make RWD sedans. I would stop buying them.

Raheel

WOW, Hold it there..

How can you compare Acura to Wal-Mart, and than compare a BMW 3 Series for a Armani Suit?

Thats a Big Leap..

It would be better if you said BMW to Wal-mart and Maybach to Armani Suit.


You act like BMW is GOD, My man beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and many people tend to like there Acuras!

princed

I think the comparison being made to suits is interesting. As nice as Armani suits are, most men who highly value their appearance and have a need to wear high quality suits regularly choose to have their suits custom made. The quality and variety of fabrics combined with the fit of having a suit built to one's frame is simply unbeatable. Armani is a nice label, but to those "in the know" with suits, seeing a suit by a respected establishment on Saville Row will trump anything mass produced and displayed on a European runway...

Before you think this thread is completely off topic, I just wanted to mention that a more appropriate comparison is in order (Acura as Walmart and BMW as Armani? -- that's a good one...). BMW is more like a Saville row tailor while Acura is a respected clothier in Hong Kong. Both use quality materials and produce exceptional suits far better than anything mass produced. The difference is that the Saville Row tailors build European suits with a distinctly European flavor. There is a great deal of tradition on the Row, and because these tailors can lay claim to producing the clothes of various royalty, the brand status is simply immense. In Hong Kong, the establishments are younger, bolder, and far less expensive. They will design a suit to the wishes of the customer. European cut? Fine. Something more trendy? You got it. They use the same high quality wool, cashmere, etc. but they are able to produce suits at a far lower cost (because they are younger and non-European and therefore have less of a brand image). There will be people who perceive a large difference in quality between the two establishments simply because they are tethered by their elitist views. Indeed, the Saville Row tailor might be better at certain things, but often the Hong Kong tailor is better at others. There will ALWAYS be people who will be unable to see beyond the fact that Saville Row = European and therefore MUST be superior. These tailors are merely different in their approach and appeal to different individuals.

Since this analogy has already run far away from its intended course and seems somewhat ridiculous now that I reread it, I will end. Acura and BMW are merely different in their approaches. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. As individuals, we evaluate how a car maker's philosophy interacts with our own and then go with our guts. Just because the TL does not follow the European luxury sedan formula of RWD does not make it any less of a vehicle -- it's just a different view...