Infamous425

i doubt fuel economy is the reason. the VQ made the list for many yrs with worse mpg than 18/26. and the Hemi doesnt exactly get good mpg

Fishy

Well, Honda's 3.5L V6 tuned for the TL isn't on there yet tuned for the Accord it is. The only difference I see is that the Accord's uses regular gas and subsequently produces less HP.

That pretty well sums up this list. Its not about the "best" motor from a performance perspective with BMW's I6 on the list being clear enough indication of that eh?

Costco

go away.

You're right though, I guess performance has nothing to do with sales either since the 3-series which is altogether older, more expensive and smaller in any comparable trim sold almost twice as many cars last month compared to the brand spanking new Acura TL.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol it's like the 3 series alone = sales of TL + G35 + IS...

oonowindoo

what is so special about toyota's 3.5L?

It is a good engine but 10 world best?

Also where the hell is the F22??


this list is .

# Audi AG: 2.0L TFSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (A4 Avant)
# BMW AG: 3.0L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (135i Coupe)
# BMW AG: 3.0L DOHC I-6 Turbodiesel (335d)
# Chrysler LLC: 5.7L Hemi OHV V-8 (Dodge Ram/Challenger R/T) no
# Ford Motor Co.: 2.5L DOHC I-4 HEV (Escape Hybrid) better than prius?
# General Motors Corp.: 3.6L DOHC V-6 (Cadillac CTS) ? ??
# Honda Motor Co. Ltd.: 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Accord Coupe) ????
# Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd.: 4.6L DOHC V-8 (Genesis) good but 10 best?
# Toyota Motor Corp.: 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350) ^
# Volkswagen AG: 2.0L SOHC I-4 Turbodiesel (Jetta TDI)

Costco

.... yet Fishy continues to insist that the inline-6 is obsolete, as is RWD

Did you even read the article? Or better yet have even driven cars with the engines on this list? I haven't tried most of them, but on paper there's stats that back these engines up.

The Hemis have variable displacement and a unique type of variable valve timing. They use that Hemi across half of Chrysler/Dodge's lineup and its even available in hybrid form. Pushrods with variable valve timing were almost unheard of until recent years.... simply because they didn't need it. But a pushrod that DOES have it....

Hyundai's new Tau engine has continuous VVT (like i-VTEC sorta) and it also puts out a lot more power than Ford's Modular 4.6 DOHC V8 which has been continuously improved over the years. Its also a huge first for Hyundai.

The Escape Hybrid's gasoline and electric engines are way more powerful than the Prius's engine, and not to mention they have to propel a much heavier vehicle, I'd guess 3500+ for the Escape Hybrid vs. under 3000 lbs for the Prius.

The direct-injected DOHC V6s from both Toyota and GM are available almost every midsize vehicle/SUV in their lineup, not to mention have higher combined power and efficiency than their competitors. Even better yet, the GM DI 3.6 makes the same/more power than competitors while on 87 octane. The Toyota and GM versions have a bit more torque than the Nissan ones, and isn't anyone else tired of seeing the VQ on there year after year after year with only one little addition after another? Its an OLD engine. The VQ is available with DI now, I'm surprised the still SOHC J-series made the list, if anything, but as its been said it makes its rated power off of 87 octane.

And lastly, the Wards Top 10 engines list is for North America only.... I can only imagine how pissed you'd be if they included engines from Renaults and Opels. I agree the F22 and VQ are great engines, but I don't think this list would have touched a nerve, if you hadn't owned an S2000 and a G before. Just sayin....

Anymore ??? ? ??? or ^'s?

Fishy

The gas turbo I6 won in the 135i coupe, not the 3 series. The 1 series is BMW's answer to the SC Cobalt, i.e. go fast econobox for badge whores with little sense of taste.

The diesel turbo I6 is in the 335d, which had N/A sales last month of ???

Moog-Type-S

Lots of forced induction on that list

Costco

The car(s) itself was what dictated design of the engine in the first place. Everyone else in the thread seemed to get my point, aside from you.... hmm And that's right, the diesel engine in the 335d is so promising that they even put it on the list even though it hasn't even sold any yet! Now that's impressive.

TWO obsolete engines made the list, both from one single obsolete manufacturer. You're funnier than people who drive OHC engined cars who call pushrods ancient.

msl82

Man.....What an accomplishment!!!! Finally some recognition as a result of absolute dedication, hardwork, research, and self-sacrifice by countless Korean workers in Korea to reach this stage, WHILE everyone else in the world mocked, and laughed at us (literally).

Good job Hyundai!!, and the countless self-sacrificing hardworking Korean citizens who devote their lives for betterment of their country!! I knew you can do it. We dont need no bailout from the government, we got our hardworking mentality and Korean spirit.

As long as we keep this advancement, Hyundai Motor Corp. can be one of the best in the world in the near future.

Costco

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol....

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

oh gawd, here we go.

savage

actually this article is talking about engines, the references to the cars are only examples which they tested.

Sarlacc

Stupidest comment made yet in this thread. Water urine filled lake did you crawl out of?

Edward'TLS

^^^^^ Agree. BMW is more interested in fighting the Audi S3 with it's 135i. It won't care less about any el cheapo Chevy econo boxes.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

The thought of BMW thinking of Chevy as a competitor is :ghey:

invisiblewar

there are times when i read msl's posts and need to leave azine for a few days, just because his posts are so effin retarded that i cant handle them, yes hyundais made big leaps, yes the cars have improved but for Gods sake they are not anywhere near the best car ever and they wont be for a long time. thats that

Sarlacc

I wouldnt laugh too much...CTS-V...

invisiblewar

^ caddy is def. a bmw competitor now with the new gen of the cts

Scrib

I'll be damned...

cusdaddy

Overall, I don't agree with many on the list.

* Audi AG: 2.0L TFSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (A4 Avant) ok
* BMW AG: 3.0L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (135i Coupe) good choice
* BMW AG: 3.0L DOHC I-6 Turbodiesel (335d) good choice, but I'm not a fan of diesels
* Chrysler LLC: 5.7L Hemi OHV V-8 (Dodge Ram/Challenger R/T) I'd rate the LS3 over the Hemi - It makes more HP, is more economical and I think it sounds nicer.
* Ford Motor Co.: 2.5L DOHC I-4 HEV (Escape Hybrid) ok, but isn't the Prius more economical
* General Motors Corp.: 3.6L DOHC V-6 (Cadillac CTS) good power, but from everything I've read, it has NVH issues
* Honda Motor Co. Ltd.: 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Accord Coupe) outdated SOHC design that dates back to the 2000 TL, and doesn't make competitve power. The VQ is a far better choice
* Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd.: 4.6L DOHC V-8 (Genesis) for a V8 luxury sedan, I'd rather have the engine in the Lexus LS, the Mercedes V8, BMW V8, Infiniti V8
* Toyota Motor Corp.: 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350) ok I guess.. but I still like the VQ over this engine
* Volkswagen AG: 2.0L SOHC I-4 Turbodiesel (Jetta TDI) ok

Fishy

No, that's fanciful speculation on the journalists part that diesels will be the "savior", hence all the other diesels on the list. Just the same BS as ethanol, hydrogen, etc.

I mock the feeble mentality of people who think getting 30mpg in a Corvette on the highway means that it's a fuel efficient car. No, the vette sucks back the gas with normal driving behavior (i.e. woo hoo, look at me go fast!) with a normal city/hwy mix.

What is needed is for auto makers and consumers to get two swift smacks in the face to realize that 300+hp cars are lemmings marching off a cliff stupid. And 200+hp family sedans are retarded as well... count me in there too

And a sea change in the lifestyle of industrialized nations is required. Too much driving is done, like the brain dead commuting in LA. Too much transportation of non-essential goods like strawberries from California to Canada in the winter is being done.

Bottom line, the world doesn't need a 330hp coupe nor 425ft/lb of torque moving a compact sedan. Shame on Ward and those journalists for propagating the stupidity.

Not quite, an engine is measured by how well it motivates a car. The car is the measure of the engine.

The lake next to an elementary school where I pick up some language skills. You?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Not sure about the other engines, but remember the J35 is more fuel efficient. Perhaps this year Ward placed a greater emphasize on that. Especially on the Accord coupe, it can do the 1/4 mile in 13.9s, and the trap speed can go up to 102.5mph, while still getting 22mpg combined (city, hwy, testing). The VQ35 powered cars might still be faster, but most of the time they get 17mpg combined (again, city, hwy, testing) according to most mags.

And actually, the J series, is dated back to 1997 in the 1G CL, but the VQ is as old, if not older.

Also, keep in mind that in terms of hp/L ratio, DOHC is superior theoretically for obvious reasons. For one, SOHC engines can't rev as high, and thus cannot make as much peak power.

From an engineering point of view though, hp/L only tells a little about the technology, BMEP is a far better indication. It takes into account engine rpm, engine volume and engine power output. It’s the only equation to use when comparing engines from the perspective of saying which is more highly developed. The J35 in the Accord has a very good BMEP value for an engine that runs on regular gas. If you compare the J37 in the new TL, it gets 11.9 bar, while the G37 gets 11.34 bar. For comparison, the Accord that runs on regular gas gets 11.26 bar.

The 2GR-FSE engine is in another league, mainly thanks to its "dual injection" system. Any car that has DI should have a higher BMEP. ALso this engine is quite fuel efficient. I guess these are the reasons why this engine is on the list, while the VQ is not.

Costco

^wow iforyou, somebody's been studying advanced engine performance... heh. I don't think most people even understand MEP....

Holy shit, I officially give up. Trying to make logic of your posts is like pissing into the wind. Go and buy a Prius, and revel in its non-RWD glory. Then put a V6 into it already since its so much more superior to an inline-6 or inline anything for that matter.

300+ horsepower cars are stupid what the hell are you doing on this site? I think I found the forum you're looking for.... The American Geriatrics Society - Education - Forum Index

The list is merely there to note advancements in engine technology. No, you won't get 30 mpg in a Corvette if your drive like a madman.... but most Corvette owners don't drive like one. 30 MPG in a V8 sports car eclipsing 400 bhp and 400 lb/ft of torque is impressive, period. Very few V8 powered road cars can achieve that. I won't even bother explaining the rest to you.... it'll just be wasted bandwidth anyway.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Caddy may be trying to compete with BMW, but I don't think BMW is treats caddy the same way.

I know this is but IMO, Merc and Audi are BMW's top two competitors with Infiniti/Lexus rounding out the 3 and 4 spots.

I've ridden in my friends CTS-V and it certainly does haul ass, but I dunno, I don't feel like it is worthy of being a BMW competitor.

Sarlacc

1) not the 1st gen CTS, the 2nd gen CTS is where I'm going with this...just read the review in the car talk thread.

2) bimmer is the benchmark, lutz said it clear. caddy was using them as the one to beat...and apparently this new cts v is a fighter, contender, and in some ways a winner.

dom

Just curious, have you ever heard of a place called 'Europe'?

Moog-Type-S

Bag of hammers smarter than this post.

Ashburner

uhh, can you even get a Genesis with the V8 yet? Do we know anything about the reliability of these engines?

derrick

When I went to a Metro Detroit Hyundai dealer ... no V8 Tau engines to be found ... sold to customers before they got to the dealer.

But I am shocked to see my VQ37 engine not on the list ... Oh well ... I'll blame the manual gearbox when they rated the engine!

Fishy

Well ya, I've watched National Lampoon's European Vacation.

Diesel is subsidized in many parts of Europe like France where it is cheaper than gas and Germany where it is priced the same as gas. Sadly in the US, diesel is not subsidized and much more expensive: $2.52 vs. $1.70 average Oct price in the US.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

This does away with any fuel economy advantage, which is also shrinking as gas engines become more advanced. Plus, you don't have to have some perverted catheter in your car that squirts piss into the poop shute.

When you add up the total monentary and energy cost to make a significant shift from gas to diesel for American consumers: modifying refineries, stations, repair garages, etc, then diesel is not worth it. Its better to just lop off two cylinders from V6's and V8's.

Similarly, the actual total energy costs to manufacture and run hybrids, ethanol, hydrogen, etc. is higher than gas engines. With ethanol, its double damning because the conversion from food production in part led to the global food crisis.

Again, the best option is to drive less, and drive a smaller engined car.

Fibonacci

No matter how much lipstick you put on the diesel pig - they are still dirtier. Next time you visit Europe or any place with a high proliferation of diesels like Seoul where I'm at now -- take a shower at night and blow your snot out: yep nice and black.


But what's the fun in that.

I still think the CAFE standards are a way for liberals to feel better about themselves. If it's the role of Gov't to enhance fuel economy, gas taxes would be the most effective method.

YeuEmMaiMai

I tell you what man I drove my cousin's jeep with that 5.7L hemi and when you can make ALL FOUR tires light up......now that's something :P

I am suprised that Honda's J series has not been on the list that much.....It's pretty much maint free and bullet proof.......

Crazy Bimmer

* 2.0L TFSI Turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A4)
* 3.0L TFSI Supercharged DOHC V-6 (Audi S4)
* 3.0L DOHC I-6 Turbodiesel (BMW 335d)
* 2.5L DOHC I-4 Hybrid (Ford Fusion Hybrid)
* 3.5L EcoBoost Turbocharged DOHC V-6 (Ford Taurus SHO)
* 2.4L Ecotec DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Equinox)
* 4.6L Tau DOHC V-8 (Hyundai Genesis)
* 2.5L Turbocharged DOHC H-4 (Subaru Legacy 2.5GT)
* 1.8L DOHC I-4 Hybrid (Toyota Prius)
* 2.0L SOHC I-4 Turbodiesel (Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen TDI)






Nice work VAG.

Forced induction is here to stay.

Belzebutt

One thing funny about that is when I look at comparison tests between say a 328i (or even 328xi) and the A4 2.0T, the EPA figures look quite a bit better on the A4, but actual test mileage as reported by Car & Driver and Motor Week are noticeably better on the BMW. The 2.0T can get very thirsty unless you take it real easy.

DISRUPTV

what abt the s65 motor in the m3?

visuelz

I read in Car and Driver that this was a top ten engine. Why isn't it on this list?

Moog-Type-S

...but if you are easy cruising on the highway...the MPG numbers are nothing short of fantastic....stay out of boost......If you are in boost (which is hard not to because it's too much fun) then your MPG numbers are going to nosedive.

cp3117

Damn you beat me to saying this......

When i get mine on the highway I get excellent mileage and actually better than what is suggested by VW.

In the city I can get very close to what is suggested if I stay out of the boost, but the thing is just sooooo much damn fun to drive in the boost stage, the MPG start dropping.

I cant believe its already been four years since I have had mine. I just bought out the lease two weeks ago because it was worth much more than the buyout and has been such a fun and reliable ride.....Nice work VAG. I hope they keep up the quality work and awesome drivetrains