helloha

Here comes TL competition...with $$+

LInk:
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...ge%5fid=189155

acuraman_RENAMED

well..uh...the interior looks nice! But I think Lexus was 'ultra' conservative with the changes for '05. Maybe my opinions will change when I see it in person.

Until then, the new TL is still the hit of the year!!!

1SICKLEX

GS=TL crusher, this car will be 10k more in 330 form, 20k more in 430 form...The IS/ES is Tl competition.

And mods, I think their is another GS thread in the first forum on this site.

BTW, I love it. It's not perfect but no car is....

w_piti

Doesn't the front end look like the new Ford ZX2???? I don't know.. It doesn't look that appealing to me..

nixon

looks ok, the front gots to go, I seen maxima and bwm all over the car, Lexus had good opportunity to challenge the E-class and the 5-series with GS, since a lot of people has second tough about the new 5s, and now it up to Acura to come out big with the RL to take the class lead, and I know it going to happen with that nice line up Acura have.

dom

The interior is stunning IMO, but it looks too big/bloated on the exterior, not sporty at all. Then maybe thats what they were aiming for, cruiser not bruiser.

tsx-mdxman

It's not a TL crusher. Yeah, I know it has RWD (and a V8 option?). But GS has always been the ugliest Lexus model. This one has improved but looks like GS will remain the ugliest Lexus. What happened to the shapely show car we saw recently? That was nice. This is, uh so-so. Nice interior though. I think you have to be a Lexus fanboy to get excited about it. (Hey, that's YOU!)

phile

The interior is luxurious, but the layout isn't as eye catching as the TL's. There's a lack of cohesiveness. And the shifter, shiftgate and stereo unit are ugly. The upright, squared off center stack looks like it came straight out of Cadillac. The wood steering wheel looks nice, but it'll probably be slippery.

Other than those things, the interior will no doubt live up to Lexus standards by having the finest textures and grains. The leather looks supple and I like the design of the wood paneling over the window switches/elbow rest area. Which is why I said the interior lacks cohesiveness, because you got the straight edged, squared off center stack and console, yet the door has all sorts of subtle nuances and non linear edges.

biker

Read the fine print. That's the 2006 GS!!! Won't be available for over a year.

vasu

Mix 1 part tacky camry/es300 styling with 1 part 1st gen GS and you get, the new 06 GS. Yay.

AcuraFan

The interior looks comfy and I'm sure the fit and finish is top notch but I'm not feeling the layout. And they exterior is just bland...it's big, bloated and a little shapeless...imho

gilboman

a GS is way above a TL... not even in the same playing field performancewise or pricewise... TL is same class as a ES and quality wise is not there yet either, so doubt there'll be much comparison btwn a GS and TL

larchmont

Don't know about "way above," but it's definitely very different.

Including that it costs an extra 15-20K.

I wouldn't take it for free. Well, I would, but I'd sell it.

dom

So a V6 GS will easiliy outperform a TL? Think again Gilbo. The current gen GS 300 has 220/220, hardly enough to match the new TL. I'm betting this next GS will be using the 3.3 with 240/250, again not enough to outperform the TL. It may handle better at the limit due to its RWD layout but in this segment it won't be a huge difference. So I don't agree that the GS is way above the TL performance wise.

But your right about there not being much comparison, they are aimed at different audiences just like the ES and TL are IMO.

phile

The ES is only above the TL in quality in regards to it using real wood while the TL uses fake wood; and even then it's not a critical difference as the wood in the ES is an ugly red hue. Otherwise, the plastics and soft touch materials in the TL are on par with the ES. The price increase for the TL reflects the higher grade materials that it now uses. With the last gen. TL, the Lexus had an edge, but not anymore.

Yeah, a GS with a 3.0L engine is just way above a TL performance wise.

gilboman

AWD and 6pd auto, the base GS should be close to the TL with the edge to the TL, but the TL handles adequately at best in comparison to the RWD sedans... and GS will not have the torque steer that kills the fun of the TL...i test drove it and it had horrible torque steer and the brakes were scary in that brembo's can be so weak.... the car had a nice engine but the rest of the car was definitely not up to the job... an improved version the maxima was what it felt like and not a sport sedan.... in other words, driving the TL was no fun at all.... i'll take a TSX over it.

Junkster

Welcome back, Gilbo.
How was your trip? Are you back to haggle us once again?

Junkster, who thinks the Maxima has way too much torque steer.

1SICKLEX

At first, the styling was like, okay, but as I look at the details, it's wonderful. Not perfect but elegant to me.When the TSX or TL came out, the only threads about it were on the Acura forums. No one else gave 2 figs. The new GS has only been shown to the press for 2 days and threads about it are on almost every major auto forum. So clearly, there are more than 1 Lexus fanboy. Hell I didn't start neither one of the threads here.:P

Shoot, it won't be out for at least a year.

coolio

you cannot compare the TL and the GS because the GS is on the level of the E-class and 5-series. The TL might have a few more horses, but that does not mean it's a better car than the GS. When it comes down to it and you are offered a GS or TL, everyone would choose the GS, no doubt. You can't hate on lexus because they make some fine cars. The TL is made to compete with the likes of cars like the Infiniti I35 or Lexus ES.

nixon

no dude you got it all wrong, you meet to say lexus duplicate some some fine cars, like MB and others, and now they after BMW and maxima,

Junkster

phile

No, it was on other non-Acura forums. Just as the Infiniti G35 was on Acura forums when it was announced. People on other boards watch out for Acura as well, despite what you claim.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...threadid=94434

And it's so funny, 1sicklex for someone who claims no one cares about the TL, you sure took the time to gather all its problems from reading various posts about the TL on clublexus. Obviously, you care enough for it:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...hreadid=104494

1SICKLEX

The G35 forum, maybe 20 people there. I think it's downright ridiculous a 35k car, a JAPANESE car, to have and continue as many problems as the TL. Hell, I'd take my chances with a nice German car instead. What the hell is the point of buying a Japanese car that is not reliable?

larchmont

Like what???

The main problem about the TL, and the only one I can think of at the moment, is that a lot of people seem to like the TSX even better.



P.S. Yeah, I did look at that post of yours over there....

gilboman

in addition to the squeaks and rattles... maybe its the cdn climate..but most people i know with TL/CL are on their second or third tranny by the 4th year...and i'm not talking about just lead footed friends either, there are mom's and grannies too... squeeks and rattles are one thing..having a tranny die is just unacceptable especially time and time again... which makes me worry about the new TL's reliability... for the money its not a bad car but just get rid of it within 3yrs or so... it seems the older acura's held up a lot better... i guess there's American quality for you.

gilboman

i'm an enlightened man after my trip i'm jealous of how lucky people in hkg are and all the choices of cars they have... the only honda that i saw with some frequency was the Jazz..nice little car.. but thats it... mostly Toyotas (lots of corollas, few camrys and vans) and a LOT of Lexus (ES,RX,LS), MB's , BMW and other european cars... there was quite a number of nissans too... very little honda and/or mazda. i saw a maybach there too..first one..and then i got to sat in that new Lambo Muricagino(sp? forgot the name)..i was just walking on the street past a Lambo dealer and a guy was getting ready for a test drive as the car was warming up on the sidewalk..he saw me staring at it and offered me to sit and look around...looks much nicer in person than in pics....also lots of Ferrari's and Skylines too.. .damn rich HKG ppl

nh-603p

Wouldnt this comparison thing be a good for the tl ? it is in the same class as the ES 300 and cars like audi A6 or saab 9-3
but it is constantly compared to bmw 5 series and the GS. doesnt that speak volumes for how much better this car is than anything else in its class?

phile

That's your opinion based on what you've read. People go online to complain about problems with their cars more than they go online, if ever, to praise them. Acura has sold about 18,000 TSXs for the year...do you see 18,000 people online complaining about rattles?

But anyway, that wasn't the point of my post. You've posted at least twice where you downplay Acura by saying the only ones who were excited by the release of the TSX and TL are Acura fans, and obviously you're wrong since you yourself (as well as some over at clublexus) are intrigued enough by.

gilboman

um..no...nobody is comparing it to Eclass or 5 series, only some ppl on this board mentiion the similar hp numbers and automatically think this means it can be compared to Eclass or 5seriesand if you havent test driven it, even by reading the mags which pretty much confirm it as not upto par with 3 series or G35 performance/driving wise so its nowhere near the Eclass or 5 series...only thing is that its got 270hp but torque steers and handles adequately at best with weak brakes.... does that sound like a car that is clearly better than its peers in the same class (3 series, G35)? straightline speed is easy to achieve...balance and confidence driving it is not..... .

Junkster

I should be asking about the Murcialago, but...
What was the Jazz like? There's been rumers flyin about that Honda intends to bring the Jazz over to the states as a Civic wagon. I've read pretty positive things about the car from both continents, euro and asia. Give us a HONEST opinion, Gilbo, and don't say it sucks because it isn't RWD!!!

Junkster, who also thinks HK people are spoiled.

1SICKLEX

Dude, a good friend of mine is a GM at Baranco Acura here in Atlanta. Wanna here his opinion on the cars? Especially when they are getting KILLED fixing all this warrenty work. It's way bigger than the internet. Most people waiting in the lobby for their car have never heard or TL/CL/TSX/World .com.

I'll also post the repair order for my best friends new CL-S, getting it's tranny done this week (I think again)....I'm on tons of forums. I know when the new SEAT is out, or Vauxhall, hell the new Yugo. Objectively speaking, no is talked about the TL. That is a fact. No one cared. Just like the new Maxima. The last car that really generated a buzz that was affordable was the G35. That car (especially the coupe) was discussed all over the internet.

phile

Oh here we go with the anecdotal "evidence" - yeah, that's always convincing. Look, I already linked to where people are talking about the TL outside of the Acura forums, contrary to what you have said. You can twist it any way you want (first you say no one cares, I point out they do, now you say "objectively speaking" - whatever).

Precision Crafted

I guess I've been lucky. My '02 TL had over 50k miles on it and not one tranny issue. My issue was the sunroof rattling but it was replaced and no more noise.

My only issue with my new '04 TL is the memory loosing it's memory but I'm the only one who drives my car so I'm not caring too much.

I personnally don't see the TL and GS as competitors. I see the TL as being way sporter then the ES and having a better looking interior then the G35. I've driven both the GS430 and the G35 and chose the new TL. To each their own. I can live with my choice until I don't want to look at it any longer and must have something new.

I will say that I do think the overall quality of the new TL is better then the second gen model as well as the first gen model (that I also had). As for the American vs the Japanese build quality (squeaks, rattles) the first gen had no such thing.

tsx-mdxman

Who cares how many people are talking about it? That is meaningless and totally not empirical with respect to popularity. Sales are the key. TL is kicking butt.

1SICKLEX

Then the Ford Taurus kicks butt too. And so do toaster ovens. And socks, a lot of socks are sold.:P The new TL is selling very well, I think on par with the previous TL, and since it costs more, that means more revenue for Acura.

tsx-mdxman

Good comeback! But Taurus' don't cost $35K, so we should only be talking about cars within the (rather broad) $$ range the TL competes in. Be honest and acknowledge it outsells most of its competitors. That's not by accident, it's a very nice car.

1SICKLEX

The previous Tl sold in droves, I think between 55-70k a year. It also cheap, Type-P at under 30k, Type-S at 32k (compared to the competition and the previous TL). Acura, IMO, hit the nail on the head with it.

I was commenting on his basis that "all things that sell must kick-ass". That is a flawed argument.

And just like the other thread, who gives a shit.

tsx-mdxman

All things that sell well relative to the competition (given that a market is competive with many excellent choices provided the consumer) do technically kick-*ss! I learned that little nugget in business school many moons ago. But I agree with you, who cares about a lame GS thread. (Just kidding.)

justinjsw

Is that right a GM huh? What is his name? I think I should give them a ring over there and see what you are talking about. Getting killed fixing ALL the warranty work....interesting...what do you think they work for free?

YeaH the crappy TL is out selling the awesome G35 almost 2.5-1. Don't give me Im bias shit. I drive a G35 sedan and also work for Infiniti.

You are right the Acuras are all falling apart. The Lexus and MBs of the world are bullet proof.

gilboman

its a nice looking practical car and if it came here , the best looking car in the Honda lineup (i dont think the S2K is that nice looking ) i have no clue about the performance of it other than its not fast, but is practical and looks good... think of it as almost the samething as the echo hatch (we cancuks get it..yanks dont)... if it came, it would probably be the only desirable car in the honda lineup for me... so in other words i like it a lot.

i saw a couple modded ones and looked nice..but to be honest i usually paid more attention to the other cars..eg GTR's, Ferrari's, i stared at the Maybach for a long time too to make sure i wasnt mistaken...and those MRS look really nice modded...