Volkswagen: Phaeton News
02-02-2004, 10:26 PM
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i sat in a phaeton at the auto show (i convinced the lady to let me in)....It was very nice inside. Very comfortable, sleek and flat button layout....but I still couldn't get over the VW badge...label whore or not, those cars are built and bought to impress
02-03-2004, 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Zoot
i sat in a phaeton at the auto show (i convinced the lady to let me in)....It was very nice inside. Very comfortable, sleek and flat button layout....but I still couldn't get over the VW badge...label whore or not, those cars are built and bought to impress
i sat in a phaeton at the auto show (i convinced the lady to let me in)....It was very nice inside. Very comfortable, sleek and flat button layout....but I still couldn't get over the VW badge...label whore or not, those cars are built and bought to impress
07-06-2004, 05:31 PM
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REPORT: VW CEO calls Phaeton saloon a mistake - - Reuters / July 06, 2004 - - Source: Autonews.com
FRANKFURT -- Volkswagen AG Chief Executive Bernd Pischetsrieder believes the company's previous management made a mistake when it built the luxury Phaeton as a saloon, British monthly CAR reported in its August issue.
"The Phaeton fails to sell because it is not distinctive enough," Pischetsrieder told the magazine in an interview, adding that the next generation might be a mixture between an estate car and a coupe.
"It will definitely not be a normal saloon," the former BMW CEO said, pointing out that engineers had originally conceived it differently. "But the marketing people said the luxury buyers would insist on a saloon. That was a mistake."
Pischetsrieder also blamed marketing for nearly killing off the immensely popular Golf GTI model, which he is reviving.
"It was too slow, too average. It was a good example of marketing getting it wrong. If it hadn't been for those fans of the old Golf GTI, and their clubs and meetings, the icon would have completely disappeared," he said.
This is the second time Pischetsrieder has publicly criticized the car maker's product policy under his predecessor and current VW supervisory board Chairman Ferdinand Piech.
In an interview with the Financial Times in early June, Pischetsrieder said it had been "absolutely the wrong decision" to introduce VW's small Polo model in China.
Pischetsrieder also used the CAR report to take aim at Piech, who brought him to VW and anointed him as his successor.
"Dr. Piech possibly emphasized engineering too much, and his predecessor Dr. Hahn possibly emphasized employment too much," he told CAR. "My goal is very clear. It is to make money."
FRANKFURT -- Volkswagen AG Chief Executive Bernd Pischetsrieder believes the company's previous management made a mistake when it built the luxury Phaeton as a saloon, British monthly CAR reported in its August issue.
"The Phaeton fails to sell because it is not distinctive enough," Pischetsrieder told the magazine in an interview, adding that the next generation might be a mixture between an estate car and a coupe.
"It will definitely not be a normal saloon," the former BMW CEO said, pointing out that engineers had originally conceived it differently. "But the marketing people said the luxury buyers would insist on a saloon. That was a mistake."
Pischetsrieder also blamed marketing for nearly killing off the immensely popular Golf GTI model, which he is reviving.
"It was too slow, too average. It was a good example of marketing getting it wrong. If it hadn't been for those fans of the old Golf GTI, and their clubs and meetings, the icon would have completely disappeared," he said.
This is the second time Pischetsrieder has publicly criticized the car maker's product policy under his predecessor and current VW supervisory board Chairman Ferdinand Piech.
In an interview with the Financial Times in early June, Pischetsrieder said it had been "absolutely the wrong decision" to introduce VW's small Polo model in China.
Pischetsrieder also used the CAR report to take aim at Piech, who brought him to VW and anointed him as his successor.
"Dr. Piech possibly emphasized engineering too much, and his predecessor Dr. Hahn possibly emphasized employment too much," he told CAR. "My goal is very clear. It is to make money."
07-06-2004, 05:50 PM
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I feel somewhat vindicated that I said way back when this car was announced that it was a terrible business decision. I still stand by my statement back then that in MBA classes, they will use this as a case study
07-06-2004, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
I feel somewhat vindicated that I said way back when this car was announced that it was a terrible business decision. I still stand by my statement back then that in MBA classes, they will use this as a case study
I was surprised to see him say what he said about the Golf! I mean, VW is in real trouble all over the world currently.
07-06-2004, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
I feel the same way.
I was surprised to see him say what he said about the Golf! I mean, VW is in real trouble all over the world currently.
I was surprised to see him say what he said about the Golf! I mean, VW is in real trouble all over the world currently.
07-06-2004, 06:47 PM
#169
Pit Stop?
I actually saw a one on the road today....it took me a moment to realize what it was, I pointed it out to my friend and he's like "Who would pay 80k for a VW?". I tried to explain but then we saw an Aston Martin AV8 so we focused on a new topic.
07-07-2004, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
I feel the same way.
I mean, VW is in real trouble all over the world currently.
I mean, VW is in real trouble all over the world currently.
that surprises me, how can they be in trouble, who the hell doesnt have a jetta now!!?
07-07-2004, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoot
who didn't see this coming? As great of a car it is, it was destined to fail because of the 2 letters on front....VW
07-07-2004, 09:46 PM
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... VW just doesn't stir emotions of luxury and grandeur... I think Piech was crazy for trying to take the that far upstream. They idea of selling them as premium alternatives to more everyday cars seemed a smart move.
07-08-2004, 02:21 AM
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BEST NEWS EVER!
I'll buy this car used in a couple of years. And rock it to no end. Maybe. Just maybe, I tell you. I bet it'll sell for no more than 30k or so, 35 TOPS. Getting a car like that for that kinda money... THANK YOU, OVERAMBITIOUS VW EXECS!
I'll buy this car used in a couple of years. And rock it to no end. Maybe. Just maybe, I tell you. I bet it'll sell for no more than 30k or so, 35 TOPS. Getting a car like that for that kinda money... THANK YOU, OVERAMBITIOUS VW EXECS!
07-08-2004, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by goldmemberer
BEST NEWS EVER!
I'll buy this car used in a couple of years. And rock it to no end. Maybe. Just maybe, I tell you. I bet it'll sell for no more than 30k or so, 35 TOPS. Getting a car like that for that kinda money... THANK YOU, OVERAMBITIOUS VW EXECS!
I'll buy this car used in a couple of years. And rock it to no end. Maybe. Just maybe, I tell you. I bet it'll sell for no more than 30k or so, 35 TOPS. Getting a car like that for that kinda money... THANK YOU, OVERAMBITIOUS VW EXECS!
Im wiht stupid
07-09-2004, 08:30 AM
#177
Cost Drivers!!!!
that car is gangsta. Better body styling and good marketing would make it distinctive. S and 7 series are boring.....only thing that sets them apart is the exterior.
12-15-2004, 04:35 PM
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Huge incentive helps VW dealers move slow-selling Phaetons off lots - - By RALPH KISIEL | Automotive News - - Source: Autoweek
DETROIT -- Slap 10 grand on the hood and guess what happens?
Volkswagen of America Inc. has discovered that it can move the slow-selling Phaeton luxury sedan off dealership lots, that's what.
After VWoA offered $10,000 in dealer cash on the struggling model to move out the 2004 version, dealers think they can hit the revised sales target of 2,000 this year.
Dealers say they had decent October and November sales. They sold 305 Phaetons in October and 308 in November. Through November, Phaeton sales are 1,741 for the year.
The low point this year was August, when 76 Phaetons were sold.
Now dealers are looking to 2005.
"I'm pushing like hell for them to get a lease on the '05 because we've got some momentum now," says Gene Langan, VW national dealer council chairman. "Let's get this thing going."
Langan is hoping that VWoA will make the current Phaeton lease more attractive. The car is offered at a 36-month lease for $699 a month, with $999 due at signing.
Langan, who owns Gene Langan Volkswagen Inc. of Glastonbury, Conn., leased four Phaetons in October and four in November.
"Most are going out around $700 a month with $2,500 down." he says. "There's been a lot of traffic, and it's been people who have owned a lot of the other upscale brands - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus customers."
Before the Phaeton went on sale here in November 2003, Volkswagen AG executives in Germany expected annual U.S. sales of 5,000. But after a poor showing in Europe, the sales target was lowered to 2,000 in the United States.
"If they want to sell '05s, they know the number," says dealer Mike Sullivan of Volkswagen Santa Monica in California.
Sullivan's dealership sold a total of nine Phaetons in October and November.
"At the right number, it's a delightful car, and they found out what that number is," he says.
Langan and other VW dealers are still chafing over derogatory remarks by former Audi of America Inc. head Axel Mees.
Mees said that he would not buy the premium Phaeton because "it has the VW logo, and because I have to go to a VW dealership where the salesmen are used to selling Jettas and Golfs."
He was fired over the Nov. 8 remarks.
"I think that the dealers who have embraced this car have Phaeton specialists who are as high a caliber salesperson as any BMW or Mercedes salesman out there," Langan says. "I don't know what more an Audi dealer can offer their customer that I can't. I think our level of service is just as good. I think we're going to prove them wrong with this car."
Volkswagen of America Inc. has discovered that it can move the slow-selling Phaeton luxury sedan off dealership lots, that's what.
After VWoA offered $10,000 in dealer cash on the struggling model to move out the 2004 version, dealers think they can hit the revised sales target of 2,000 this year.
Dealers say they had decent October and November sales. They sold 305 Phaetons in October and 308 in November. Through November, Phaeton sales are 1,741 for the year.
The low point this year was August, when 76 Phaetons were sold.
Now dealers are looking to 2005.
"I'm pushing like hell for them to get a lease on the '05 because we've got some momentum now," says Gene Langan, VW national dealer council chairman. "Let's get this thing going."
Langan is hoping that VWoA will make the current Phaeton lease more attractive. The car is offered at a 36-month lease for $699 a month, with $999 due at signing.
Langan, who owns Gene Langan Volkswagen Inc. of Glastonbury, Conn., leased four Phaetons in October and four in November.
"Most are going out around $700 a month with $2,500 down." he says. "There's been a lot of traffic, and it's been people who have owned a lot of the other upscale brands - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus customers."
Before the Phaeton went on sale here in November 2003, Volkswagen AG executives in Germany expected annual U.S. sales of 5,000. But after a poor showing in Europe, the sales target was lowered to 2,000 in the United States.
"If they want to sell '05s, they know the number," says dealer Mike Sullivan of Volkswagen Santa Monica in California.
Sullivan's dealership sold a total of nine Phaetons in October and November.
"At the right number, it's a delightful car, and they found out what that number is," he says.
Langan and other VW dealers are still chafing over derogatory remarks by former Audi of America Inc. head Axel Mees.
Mees said that he would not buy the premium Phaeton because "it has the VW logo, and because I have to go to a VW dealership where the salesmen are used to selling Jettas and Golfs."
He was fired over the Nov. 8 remarks.
"I think that the dealers who have embraced this car have Phaeton specialists who are as high a caliber salesperson as any BMW or Mercedes salesman out there," Langan says. "I don't know what more an Audi dealer can offer their customer that I can't. I think our level of service is just as good. I think we're going to prove them wrong with this car."
12-15-2004, 06:55 PM
#182
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"Langan is hoping that VWoA will make the current Phaeton lease more attractive. The car is offered at a 36-month lease for $699 a month, with $999 due at signing."
Oh now thats hot. IMO
Oh now thats hot. IMO
07-30-2005, 08:22 PM
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MT mag is reporting that VW has no schedule to replace the Phaeton with a next generation offering. Instead it will use those resources for the rumored RWD E-class fighter.
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
07-31-2005, 01:12 AM
#186
Suzuka Master
VW dealers are still chafing over derogatory remarks by former Audi of America Inc. head Axel Mees.
Mees said that he would not buy the premium Phaeton because "it has the VW logo, and because I have to go to a VW dealership where the salesmen are used to selling Jettas and Golfs."
Mees said that he would not buy the premium Phaeton because "it has the VW logo, and because I have to go to a VW dealership where the salesmen are used to selling Jettas and Golfs."
07-31-2005, 03:21 PM
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Good. The Phaeton is a great car but a really stupid business decision. I don't even think they should worry about an E-Class competitor for VW. Put the investment dollars in areas like technology (Hybrids)
07-31-2005, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
07-31-2005, 08:56 PM
#192
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by cusdaddy
Good. The Phaeton is a great car but a really stupid business decision. I don't even think they should worry about an E-Class competitor for VW. Put the investment dollars in areas like technology (Hybrids)
08-02-2005, 03:53 AM
#193
2G TLX-S
Originally Posted by gavriil
MT mag is reporting that VW has no schedule to replace the Phaeton with a next generation offering. Instead it will use those resources for the rumored RWD E-class fighter.
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
08-02-2005, 07:38 AM
#194
Race Director
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
No problem. Just simply drop the price of the Phaeton to the E-class level, and VW will have a winning E-class fighter today. No need to wait any further.
08-02-2005, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
MT mag is reporting that VW has no schedule to replace the Phaeton with a next generation offering. Instead it will use those resources for the rumored RWD E-class fighter.
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
So we can derive from that, that the Phaeton may be no more in a few years.
08-02-2005, 12:04 PM
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The Phaeton Platform is in good hands, even Phaeton is cancelled the Bentley Conti GT and the Flying Spur would keep it going for years to come.
One of the things that VW USA should do but didnt do is import the short wheelbase model that might be more popular (can you imagine hiring a driver to drive a VW?)
One of the things that VW USA should do but didnt do is import the short wheelbase model that might be more popular (can you imagine hiring a driver to drive a VW?)
08-02-2005, 01:34 PM
#199
2G TLX-S
Originally Posted by titan
I don't think VW needs to move upmarket. That's the stupidest thing ever. VW group a bunch of premium brands here (NA market), and one brand for the "people". Lambo, Audi, Bently, and Bugatti (one day) are sold here!! Why move the VW brand and infringe on Audi? Especially since VW has no history of being true lux. Then all of the sudden they come out with the Phaeton and everyone is to forget it's history. That said, VW's execs are dumb, because if they're bent on moving up this is how they should have done it from the get go. Instead of coming out with a full ledge flagship, without much lux product under it, they should have worked they're way up (which is what they seem to be trying now). The Passat is supposidly a C-Class competitor now. Okay. Next step, the E. THEN, years later, the S. Throw in a premium roadster (coming soon) that has that neat retractable hardtop, and a premium SUV (Toureg), and we can talk. But still, I think this whole thing is folly. Leave this level of lux to Audi, damnit.
11-14-2005, 10:21 AM
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Volkswagen to yank slow-selling Phaeton from U.S. market next summer - - DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News - - Source: Autoweek
Volkswagen AG is admitting defeat with the Phaeton. VW plans to pull the slow-selling luxury car from the U.S. market next summer.
The Phaeton is losing money in the United States. "It is not a viable business case anymore," says Hans-Gerd Bode, a VW spokesman at the company's global headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany.
The decision to pull the plug was made by Wolfgang Bernhard, head of the VW brand worldwide, and Adrian Hallmark, the new executive vice president of Volkswagen of America Inc.
The executives decided Volkswagen will focus on being a volume player in the U.S. market instead of trying to move up-market, Bode says.
"Bernhard and Hallmark said, 'We are a volume producer, and let's go in this direction, beginning with the U.S. market, where we are losing a lot of money,' " Bode says.
Slumping sales
The Phaeton's U.S. sales tumbled to 686 in the first 10 months of 2005 from 1,433 in the year-ago period. That's a 52.1 percent drop.
VW prices the Phaeton at $68,655 for a V-8 model, including a $1,300 gas-guzzler charge. The 12-cylinder version starts at $100,255, including a $3,000 gas guzzler charge.
By contrast, the most expensive four-door VW Passat sedan starts at $32,515 for a 3.6-liter VR6 model.
VW plans to announce the Phaeton decision to dealers today, Nov. 14. Wolfsburg expects Phaeton sales to end in the U.S. market next July or August.
The company will not send the 2007 Phaeton here.
VW will continue to provide customer support to Phaeton owners, Bode says.
VW's U.S. market will focus on core vehicles, including the Passat, Jetta, Golf and Touareg, Bode says, along with new models such as the Eos convertible that is due early next year.
The company's U.S. dealers will get a car above the Passat as part of a product offensive that Bernhard has promised for 2008 and beyond.
Since VW launched the Phaeton in the U.S. market in 2003, the car has not approached its initial sales target of 5,000 a year. This year, the Phaeton does not appear to be on track to hit its lowered U.S. sales target of 1,000.
VWoA offered $10,000 in dealer cash last year on 2004 models.
Bode says it was probably a mistake for VW to launch the Touareg and the Phaeton together. Marketing wasn't sufficient to position both vehicles strategically, he says.
VWoA's marketing also has been inconsistent, Bode says: "In the last year, we didn't have a good marketing effort in the U.S. Today we do this, and tomorrow we do that."
Bode says VWoA's continued losses also affected the decision to yank the Phaeton. VW expected to turn around its fortunes in the United States this year with redesigned versions of the Jetta and Passat and a freshened New Beetle.
This month, though, Wolfsburg announced this year's losses at VWoA are expected to top last year's loss of $1.07 billion.
Chris Curran, a Volkswagen dealer in Stratford, Conn., says "it's no surprise" VW is dropping the Phaeton.
"As the volumes got smaller," says Curran, "they decided they didn't have enough funds to support stronger incentive programs."
Curran says the Phaeton represented too big a jump for traditional VW buyers to make. At the same time, he says, luxury buyers did not gravitate to the car.
Says Curran: "People in that high-price range are buying prestige and image, and want the logo to represent that."
The Phaeton is losing money in the United States. "It is not a viable business case anymore," says Hans-Gerd Bode, a VW spokesman at the company's global headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany.
The decision to pull the plug was made by Wolfgang Bernhard, head of the VW brand worldwide, and Adrian Hallmark, the new executive vice president of Volkswagen of America Inc.
The executives decided Volkswagen will focus on being a volume player in the U.S. market instead of trying to move up-market, Bode says.
"Bernhard and Hallmark said, 'We are a volume producer, and let's go in this direction, beginning with the U.S. market, where we are losing a lot of money,' " Bode says.
Slumping sales
The Phaeton's U.S. sales tumbled to 686 in the first 10 months of 2005 from 1,433 in the year-ago period. That's a 52.1 percent drop.
VW prices the Phaeton at $68,655 for a V-8 model, including a $1,300 gas-guzzler charge. The 12-cylinder version starts at $100,255, including a $3,000 gas guzzler charge.
By contrast, the most expensive four-door VW Passat sedan starts at $32,515 for a 3.6-liter VR6 model.
VW plans to announce the Phaeton decision to dealers today, Nov. 14. Wolfsburg expects Phaeton sales to end in the U.S. market next July or August.
The company will not send the 2007 Phaeton here.
VW will continue to provide customer support to Phaeton owners, Bode says.
VW's U.S. market will focus on core vehicles, including the Passat, Jetta, Golf and Touareg, Bode says, along with new models such as the Eos convertible that is due early next year.
The company's U.S. dealers will get a car above the Passat as part of a product offensive that Bernhard has promised for 2008 and beyond.
Since VW launched the Phaeton in the U.S. market in 2003, the car has not approached its initial sales target of 5,000 a year. This year, the Phaeton does not appear to be on track to hit its lowered U.S. sales target of 1,000.
VWoA offered $10,000 in dealer cash last year on 2004 models.
Bode says it was probably a mistake for VW to launch the Touareg and the Phaeton together. Marketing wasn't sufficient to position both vehicles strategically, he says.
VWoA's marketing also has been inconsistent, Bode says: "In the last year, we didn't have a good marketing effort in the U.S. Today we do this, and tomorrow we do that."
Bode says VWoA's continued losses also affected the decision to yank the Phaeton. VW expected to turn around its fortunes in the United States this year with redesigned versions of the Jetta and Passat and a freshened New Beetle.
This month, though, Wolfsburg announced this year's losses at VWoA are expected to top last year's loss of $1.07 billion.
Chris Curran, a Volkswagen dealer in Stratford, Conn., says "it's no surprise" VW is dropping the Phaeton.
"As the volumes got smaller," says Curran, "they decided they didn't have enough funds to support stronger incentive programs."
Curran says the Phaeton represented too big a jump for traditional VW buyers to make. At the same time, he says, luxury buyers did not gravitate to the car.
Says Curran: "People in that high-price range are buying prestige and image, and want the logo to represent that."