cusdaddy

I agree that after seeing the video, the Phaeton is a great car. Probably a better car than the A8... but I still wouldn't buy it. The engineering requirements seem like overkill actually. Who really needs to cruise at 200mph with the AC on? But that's beyond the point. It's a truly great car. No doubt about it.

The fact is that when you are spending that much $$ on a car, most people want more than just a good car. They want the image and service that goes along with it. I am far from a label whore, but if I was going to spend $100k on a new car, I doubt I'd want a VW. They should have made it an Audi or Bentley or any other of their high-end labels.

Here is the question: How many of you would say GM would be crazy for taking the Cadillac Sixteen (16 cylinder supercar) concept and making it a Chevy? They have Cadillac as the brand to sell these types of cars. Same with VW.

What does the Phaeton REALLY give you over what a Accord 6-cylinder with leather gives you? They both get you from point A to B in comfort. They both have the basics. Basics are all we REALLY need. The rest is excess. Part of that excess unfortunately to most is the brand of the car.

jts1207

The dealer here has a silver one parked out front...............it hasnt moved in 3 weeks, no interest I guess

fahoumh

1SICKLEX

If I want to spend 100k on a car, damn right I want a focking label on my car. That is why we buy luxury cars. Or we would all be driving Sonatas...

fahoumh

so you wouldn't have bought your GS if it was called an Aristo over here too?

astro

ya'll are trippin!!!!

the Phaeton is a better car than the A8L. It has 35% more torsional rigidity with it's steel frame.

I'm sorry, you do n ot buy a car like this, based on it's sporting credentials. you buy it, for it's ability to scoot you across the pavement, as if you're on a silent, cusion of air.

and trust, the phaeton will do this like NO OTHER.

I for one, still think the Phaeton is the best deal on North American roads today.

Beltfed

The people have spoken over at the Vortex.....here are the results from the VAG nuts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Online Poll » Results

Select a link to place your vote.

A8L (74%, 115 votes)

Phaeton (25%, 40 votes)

heyitsme

Its nice but its really a rediculous idea when they have Audi and VW, if they're going to build a Phaeton for the ultra luxury market I hope they bring the Audi A3 and S3 to compete against the Golf to even out the brands.

1killercls

Does it come with the Rainbow Sticker too????

1SICKLEX

I get that mag, got that article. The Phateon couldn't beat the current LS 430, let alone a V-12 model. There is a reason the LS 430 is considered the best luxury car ever made.

Even in Europe, VW is getting slapped for making this silly car. ALl it is is old man Pierch's focked up dream. An upscale VW to battle Mercedes Benz (plain ol dumb) and Audi taking on BMW (hence the pushing of S/RS models and the more aggresive faces to come).

Phaeton=POS. I have no confidence in VW quality.

Python2121

how the hell am i being a label whore?

a label whore is someone who says they wont buy a car even if its better (ford gt vs ferarri)

im saying audi is vw's LUXURY DIVISION, therefore, high end cars should be THERE

vw = the peoples car, what aveage people buy cars with a base price of $60k, im saying that it should be placed there for IMAGE, im not saying its crap and im not saying i wouldn't buy it, but i AM saying that they have 2 divisions to fill 2 different nitches, place the cars in teh appropriate one

Python2121

says their brand slogans

and i just wanna clarify that im not taking any jabs at what this car is, or how nice it is. im just saying put it in its proper place to increase sales

no need to get all antsy in your pantsy

soopa

lol i have never heard the LS430 called the best luxury car ever made.


lil too much brand loyalty clouding your head me thinks

soopa

lol dude... you are a moron.

the phaeton a POS? the car is close to hand assembled in a dedicated factory by elite technicians.

it is probably one of the best made cars on the market if not the best.


do some research.


and yes vw is getting alot of shit for this car... but not because of the car... but more for the price and the badge.


you guys are completely correct... 100k vw badge is kinda nutty. but if you can look past a label... you will see the finest car on the market.


if it had a benz badge you would all be drooling. bunch of fucking yuppies

soopa

omg i expect alot more from you beltfed.


the `people have spoken`?!!?

this doesnt seem like a poll on the quality of the car. this sounds to me like a `what would you buy` and as weve seen established... most people would buy label over quality.

TypeSAddict

I agree with soop. I like the fact that it has a VW badge. Understated luxury. Just because your rich, doesn't mean you have to flaunt it. I think it's classier if your rich, and secure enough not to have to drive the benz around.

Python2121

alright soopa, im glad you agree with me

im not exactly going to go drool over this car cause i dont know much about it, and haven't read 1 review for myself yet

soopa

Beltfed

Come now, I already gave my reasoning as to why I favor the A8.

I just wanted to point out what the people on the biggest VW board on the net thought of the 2 cars and what they would prefer.

They liked the A8 better for most of the reasons I gave.

Take a look at what Autoweek said, not that I take car rags word as gospel.....but overall the Phaeton has been receiving less than spectacular reviews.



2004 Volkswagen Phaeton
By THE EDITORS OF AUTOWEEK

2004 VOLKSWAGEN PHAETON

DATE IN FLEET: Dec. 29-Jan. 19
AS-TESTED PRICE: $74,365
POWERTRAIN: 4.2-liter V8; awd, six-speed automatic OUTPUT: 335 hp @ 6500 rpm, 317 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm
CURB WEIGHT: 5194 pounds

GRITZINGER: This is one expensive, overdone and way overweight Volkswagen. If that's what you're looking for, buy in and along with it you get almost G35-good styling (at least from the rear) in a really huge sedan. The back-seat footwells alone could handle three sets of ski boots-on each side. This is a limo.

Given all that, if what you're looking for is a competent, sporty driver in a full-size luxury sedan, this isn't your best choice. This car is more than half a ton heavier than a 2004 Jaguar XJ8, which costs less, drives smooth-er, is more refined and, well, it's a Jag-you-ah. The Jag is supposed to be a luxury, high-end car; it doesn't have to put on airs (or the electronic equivalent) to get there. On two occasions, each time driving a different Phaeton, I've had the climate control electronics go ziggy, resulting in seriously fogged windows. If I want Brit-type electronics problems, I can just buy a Brit car, thank you very much.

I'll say it again: Phaeton is luxurious, heavy, huge and overdone. And it's a Volkswagen. Confused? You're not the only one.

LUU: I second Bob's assessment. I couldn't see myself passing up the cheaper but dynamically better XJ8. I'll give the Phaeton the styling, because it's smooth and proportional, and with better wheels would be downright handsome. The interior looks the part, but doesn't have the airtight feel I expected as I started playing around with the controls. It rolls through the corners, steering feedback is average, and power delivery is just enough to move its 5000-plus pounds, though it sounds pretty good. Would I buy one? No, because when you're playing in this class, curb appeal and ambience behind the wheel are what make these luxury liners so appealing. Volkswagen has easily done that, but then what sense is there in having an Audi with the same price?

CLovis

hey how do you expect them to pay for this $208M factory???

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7207

1SICKLEX

Soopa, I looked at my Car mags. For the 100 best cars in the world list, Phaeton is 69th, LS 430 75th. Both cars got 4 1/2 (outta 5) star ratings.

Maximized

I wouldn't say that the LS is the best luxury car ever made. It's a great vehicle and you can argue that it's the most reliable luxury car made. Lexus as a whole division, isn't a trend setter. The new technology in high end luxury vehicles is almost always introduced my BMW, Audi, and Mercedes Benz. Lexus usually implements the technology seem in these cars a year or so later.

CLovis

Lexus was a plain rip-off MB when it came out. It still is.

Sarlacc

Explain to me how the ES250 was a rip off a Mercedes?

1SICKLEX

Fellas, what I meant to say for 70k, (the LS 430 loaded) some regard the LS as all the luxury car you'll need. I am not saying it is the best, just regarded as one of the best.

Lexus not a trend setter? Seems everyone upgraded their cars and interiors after Lexus came along. Not to mention their dealerships, customer service, loaners etc. I know Lexus is not THE trend setter, but I think it sets some trends. It is common knowledge Germans add many 1sts to cars and the Japanese (rather Lexus) fixes them. But Germans have copied Lexus too.

But this is about the Phaeton. In person, it just looks like a limo. THe doors are way to long, short hood and deck. In badge loving America, it won't sell. And in Europe it won't sell either. Maybe the diesal version.

VW should concentrate on improving quality and not proving some stupid point with the Phaeton.

CLovis

im talking about the first Lexus, the LS400. The ES250, isnt a ripoff MB, its worse, its a Camry.

Clovis

Maximized

German cars in my opinion have always had nice interiors. Early 90s MB's had great looking interiors for that period. Lexus brought customer service and quality to the luxury market. This in itself was not a new idea, Honda and Toyota had been doing it for years.

Sarlacc

Well the first lexus was the ES250.

If you want to call the LS400 a MB ripoff then you have to say the same thing about the same year q45. All cars follow patterns and trends. So how did lexus come up? OK they learned from the best and then went their own way with it, big deal. I saw nothing in my mothers former 92 LS400 that made me think MB. Have you ever really driven a LS400?

I would take a Lexus any day of the week over a MB, cept an SL55 or SLR But that is just my opinion.

CLovis

No way in hell. The Q45 was unique. Unique design, did not REALLY look like anything else out there. The LS was a blatant S-class ripoff, and this was common knowledge and discussion in the press, etc. and if you look at it it you can see the definate resemblance.

Both went on sale at the same time, however the LS400 was developed first.

Any questions?
http://www.lexus.com/about/history/index_1997_1983.html

bring da peace
Clovis

Sarlacc

Take a look out there. Car styles follow in trends and patterns.

I wont argue the LS400 bears similarites to the same gen S-class. But i still argue the Q does too, specially the interior.

Look at all the competing cars today that look similar in profile and share design ques. Its how the market goes.

IMO I while both of them now look dated. I think the LS400 has held up as being more visually appealing then the same model of S-class :P

CLovis

ok... newsflash, I agree with you on ^^^ one thing....

Clovis

Sarlacc

cool then we can all be friends

CLovis

i dont know about THAT...........

jk

gavriil

Astro, I think you are exegurating a little bit. The Phaeton is great, but it's no better than the S. Sorry.

gavriil

gavriil

The Phaeton is a great achievement for VW. It totally is worth its cost. In some cases it's above and beyond everyone else. But I think that it will be discontinued soon. It wont sell. VW made a bad business decision with the Phaeton and the W8 Passat. Unless if there is something else I am missing and we have not seen yet, this VW ultimate luxury, wont fly. The market is not ready for such a proposition currently.

Sarlacc

I will disagree with you on this for one reason, and its been stated on here at least once already.

Service. The price of this car is just not justified by the service that you will NOT get with it. Part of paying this much for a vehicle is to get pampered while owning it.

CLovis

and you know they won't get this, how? I don't think you'll be PAMPERED by a VW dealer, but how do you know you won't get good service?

Maybe they should just rebadge them all as Audi's and be done with it. Like an A8 Type-S or something.

CLv

Sarlacc

Damn it CLovis, here i was thinking we were being all chummy.

I think I'm safe in saying phaeton owners will not the get the level of service as most bimmer, audi, and MB owners. And certainly not Infinti, and DEFINATELY NOT Lexus.

And for a 90g car, thats exaclty the kind of service id expect.

fahoumh

guy, we HAD a '98 Q45 and what you said about the LS is applicable to the Q.