id888

Oh, and the Passat 1.8T we own... it's the wife's. I guess it's fair to say that MOST VWs are chick cars.

Raheel

brutus

ok, I could not resist putting my 2 pennies in on this... I also own a Passat, bought a 2000. Back then I test drove a bunch of other cars including the Honda Accord because we had so much luck with our Civic and becuase well I love Honda.

Ended up going with the Passat, much tastier looking, a lot more sporty, great interior and room (suprisingly spacious backseat), good balance of confort and sport in the ride, along with free scheduled maintenance.

It was essentially a less expensive Audi A4, with a lot more room so we went with it. In 2000 I don't think you can look at the list of family cars in the U.S. and tell me one more sporty... just look at C&D's comments.

I am now at about 70,000 miles... it has been great... no complaints... only thing we have run into is the HVAC controls stopped lighting up at night... but I need to double check the fuse. If that is a major concern for you as a question of reliability then I will not change your mind.

Would my wife and I buy one again, absolutely!... now Honda/Acura finally comes out with a sporty sedan that I have been waiting for years & years to come out and it is a perfect time to get rid of our trusty Civic and turn the Passat over to the wife as a daily driver.

Is the Passat in it's current iteration more sporty then the TSX, no way... is it probably sportier & more lux then most of the family sedans in the U.S...... yes... consider it a bigger A4.

BTW on this chick car thing, I technically disagree, as I mostly see men driving them... the Accord on the other hand now that is primarily women... I would bet that if you looked at the numbers.. majority of Passat owners are men... but who cares.

B.

hondamike

I may not be maniacal about a car brand, but I am about Consumer Reports. They get their data from a questionnaire they send out to their subscribers once a year. They tally the results and publish those. The dots are based on the percentage of problems reported. It is not unusual for a car to go from recommended to not recommended based on user feedback. The BMW 3 Series and Lincoln LS are good examples of those. What I like most about CR is they do not accept any advertising at all. If anyone tries to use their data to promote a product and they find out about it, they will go after them in court.

I realize this is probably getting off topic. Let me just say I think the Passat is a really nice car. If its reliablity had been just a little bit better, I would have bought it instead of the Accord.

One last thing, to say a car is mostly driven by women or men is a little to much of a generalization. IMHO

id888

Based on what you've told us about how Consumer Reports gets their reliability data, I can now say with confidence that I will NEVER trust that magazine's reliability data again. Unfortunately, my job depends on a moderately sophisticated use of statistics on a daily basis. The worst sort of study involves reliance on questionnaire data.

What you typically get is something called reporting bias-- people with strong opinions will fill out the survey. Everybody else who doesn't feel strongly either way will just sit on their a$$.

I imagine that the CR survey data is rife with japanese car-loving folks who may have a tendency to overlook minor issues. There may also be a contingent of people buying European and domestic makes that are perpetually disgruntled.

The alternative, of course, is to rely on even more biased data- the J.D. Power folks. Talk about being cozy with the industry. As Hondamike pointed out, at least CR doesn't take money of any sort from the products they evaluate, be they toilet paper or sport sedans.

captainjack

On the versions of the Passat:
I saw a story on a Aussie web site about the new Passat and Subaru Legacy. The pictures showed the version with part of the headlight dipping below the rest a bit. The Subaru had a similar look. So maybe that's the final version?


On VW reliability:
I like VWs' styling, ergonomics, and level of fit and finish. But I wouldn't buy one--I've heard too many horror stories. For those of you haven't had negative experiences, great. But you seem to be the exceptions.

Plus, several MECHANICS have warned me away. They always site electrical problems.

Great looking Passat, though.

hondamike

You raise some valid issues with this type of sampling. As an engineer I have had to use some statistical evaluation on some of the projects I work on. The results are only as good as your data. The old "GIGO" effect. However I still think they, CR, provide a good guideline on product quality and reliability.

Well, I think we have beat this dead horse enough.

PS.
Whoohoo, I am no longer a newbie with this post

id888

GIGO, is that "garbage in, garbage out"?

Was it Mark Twain that said, "There's lies, damn lies, and statistics"?

Anyway, I would agree with your point that if you have to choose an independent source to trust, the folks at CR look like they are doing the best job they can. On a related theme, I read an article in a "real" car magazine a few years ago blasting CR. The car mag implied that you cannot have expertise in evaluating toilet paper AND automobiles. While the point was valid, I think it was overstated.

hondamike

Yep, Garbage in Garbage out. I love that quote, I think it was Mark Twain who said it. Just in case you are curious I have attached a link to the CR test track, check it out. By the way, they really like the Passat also, thats why I test drove one. I hope the link works


http://www.consumerreports.org/main/...=1058566022043

vitocorleone

Self-report is indeed prone to bias, but, if I remember my stats correctly, a large enough sample size can (not guaranteed, of course) help mitigate that. It'd be interesting to know the power, standard error of the mean and all the other "fun" statistical stuff. At least most people recognize that, while CR ratings may be flawed, at least they are still genuine (high internal validity even if external validity is questionable) - rather than having been bought by members in the industry.

id888

I think Victor has several valid points, sample size will certainly help with power and issues of external validity. However, CR is not randomly sampling, even if you consider the CR universe as valid. Questionnaire reporting biases may invalidate or trump any advantages to sample size.

Like we're all saying, though, at least CR is not J.D. Power or its analogues.

One wonders with all the useless federal regulation in this country, why do we not have access to more "objective" data on vehicle reliability. For example, shouldn't the percentage of cars recalled as lemons be readily available? It's easy enough to find similar data regarding vehicle safety.

Xtrema

Almost looks like.....



Who copied who?

GenMetaL CLSPiG

nice i like the headlight

gavriil

By WIM OUDE WEERNINK | Automotive News Europe

Zoot

Did they really expect to sell Passat W8's? As cool as the Phaeton is, i think US buyers won't be interested.

1SICKLEX

I think of VW and I think of the Bug and the old Fox. Not of the W-8 or Phaenton. Sorry, this won't fly. Hell, they can't get Audi to sell well.

DISRUPTV

They can't even get them to HOLD up well lol

heyitsme

they're nice to look at but i can't see buying one until they start focusing on mechanical quality as much as they do interior quality.

soopa

unsure thats a cheap shot...

most of my friends drive audis/vws/bmws


all of their cars have held up far better then any of my Acuras.

DISRUPTV

i know, i was just playing...it was toooo easy lol :P


Honestly, for my friends that do own VW's, most of them are great until the warranty expires, then lil nagging problems tend to occur. Same applies to bmw, altho, if i had to get a German car that I thought was the most reliable, it would probably be a bmw.

ya, i'll give you that, the present day acuras (seems the ones made in the US at least) are way over-rated and sometimes the problems (from tranny to rattles) makes it very hard to want to get another acura for ALOT of peeps

dabuda

Hmm, if the subaru comes with a turbo-charged engine i would pick that over the passat if i ever needed a 4WD sedan...plus everywhere I look VW seems to always have reliability issues...esp those jettas that are hecho in mexico

need4spd_RENAMED

Wow, I like the subaru, what is the chance we get it unchanged from that photo? Kinda TSX like with the sharp lines on the fenders???

Alex

Subaru coming....you can buy this car next year btw
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
You might notice new flat-six 3L with 247hp - this is exactly the same numbers as current Honda Inspare V6 3L has!
Seems like Subary decided to nail Honda at Honda own territory (engines)

More here
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2005/s...nav..0.Subaru*

Considering Subaru agressive marketing and all-new Legacy I have no doubts that Subaru will get a lots of Honda/Acira ex-customers.
With AWD + 280hp + full luxery toys inside it will be winner in all categories.
Subaru keep bringing new models from Japan without any mods to US/Euro market - unlike Honda/Acura keeping all good stuff in Japan and selling us bulky stuff

rb1

Best part about the new Passat is the 130 hp TDI P.D. engine option.

You hp fiends will turn up your nose, but that engine makes 227 lb-ft of torque at 1900 RPM. 50 mpg, too.

Entirely different beast than a gasser, but quite driveable.

Gebbeth

Sadly, I think Subaru is starting to get it right.

DISRUPTV

i hope their reliability and interior quality improves

Eternal TL2k3

not according to the latest JD power rankings for reliability

cusdaddy

My best friend and his family always were die-hard VW fans. They had at least 5 VW's between the entire family. After the numerous problems they have had, they said they will never buy a VW again.

The worst part is the service. My friend's radio completely died in his 03 GTI. Tried to get it fixed. Earliest appointment he could get from checking 4!!! VW dealers is August 24th. He has to drive around with no radio for a month. And that's just one small problem out of many

gi'me

<Sadly, I think Subaru is starting to get it right.>

I wonder. Until we can see it and the specs, I think it'll be a new skin over the same mechanicals. So what?

MJMeucci

Funny that you say that about the GTI radio, the same thing happened to my friend. He has an 02 GTI VR6 and one day we were going to lunch and his radio just stopped working. He called VW when we got to the restruant parking lot and they told him to bring it in and it would be covered under warranty. So he brought it in and from waht he says they did not even look at the car, rather tell him that they overbooked and that he would need to come back, and that their next audio specialist would be in on July 23. He was at VW on July 1st. He told them that that didnt work for him and that they were either going to have it fixed by the end of the week or they can provide him with an equal loaner car, as he will not drive a car without a radio. It ended with VW ordering a complete new radio system, speakers and all and installing it the following monday.

gavriil

I think VW's latest strategy is flawed. VW is trying to be all things to all people. That can be catastrophic for them because they are not able to focus on one thing.

gavriil

(20:21:13 Sep. 16, 2003)
Volkswagen planning to add mid-range premium nameplate above Passat


By WIM OUDE WEERNINK | Automotive News Europe


Sales of both VW's upmarket Passat W8, which sells for about $40,000 in the United States, and the $70,000 Phaeton (above), introduced last year, have been disappointing.
Volkswagen AG plans to fill the gap between the next-generation Passat and the slow-selling Phaeton luxury sedan with a new mid-range premium nameplate.

Referred to as the C1 inside VW, it is expected to compete with the BMW 5 series and the Mercedes-Benz E class starting in 2006.

"We have seen definitive design proposals," says a VW insider familiar with the project. "You will get an impression of it when you see the next-generation Passat in 2004."

The C1 is understood to be based on VW's modular C platform that was developed as part of former CEO Ferdinand Piech's platform strategy in the 1990s. The C platform has never been used.

Sources say a decision has been made to go ahead with the C1 project.

"Three months ago it was still not certain," says a Volkswagen engineer who asks not to be named. "But in our planning, it has been set for 2006, so you may assume that it is definite now."

The volume objective has not been set, but the minimum goal is expected to be 50,000 units.

"Otherwise it would not make sense," the VW engineer says.

Analysts say building a premium nameplate above the Passat is a logical move for VW.

"Although the Passat is successful, the overall Passat segment is going nowhere in Europe," says Colin Couchman, a senior analyst at Global Insight, a research group in London. "So a premium model on one hand and a European size MPV on the other would be sensible additions for VW."

Couchman says a premium sedan would help VW in the North American market and may even have a chance in emerging markets such as China.

"But there is a risk of confusion within the VW group," he adds. "Audi already has its A6."

Sales of both VW's upmarket Passat W8, which sells for about $40,000 in the United States, and the $70,000 Phaeton, introduced last year, have been disappointing.

Volkswagen had planned to sell 10,000 units of its W8-powered Passat annually, but managed just over 5,000 in 2002.

VW sold 2,128 Phaetons during the first six months of 2003.VW once expected to sell 7,000 units of the luxury sedan during 2003, the car's first full year on the market.

The Phaeton debuted in spring 2002 in Europe and will go on sale in the United States this year.

Says Couchman: "Maybe such a premium model (the C1) will eventually succeed the Phaeton, which VW may let die slowly."

gavriil

So, what is VW known for these days in the USA? Quality? No. Reliability? No. Performance? Absolutely not! German egnineering? Not really. Sexy cars? Not! Value? NO! Luxury cars? NO! Audi is there for that.

How the hell do they expect to sell a $70K VW car, or even a $40K VW car with what they have to offer and the way the market perceives them? I just dont get what they are trying to do in the USA.

Things are different for them in Europe. There, they are the European GM. Value is the name of the game.

cusdaddy

I don't get it... VW is definitely having identity problems lately. Why would someone get a VW priced like this when they can get an A6?

Sarlacc

VW has two failures so they want to make a 3rd?

Sounds like they bought bad crack and wont stop smoking it.

gavriil

Looks like it

SilverCL225hp

Volkwagen is simply too greedy, since its current and soon future model lineup is too broad. What is Volkswagen? Why can't it just concentrate on making good regular cars instead of overlapping the market of Audi's? German automakers are all crazy or what? Mercedes Benz and BMW are both so successful in making high prestige luxury cars and yet want to go downward and get a bite on Toyota's and Honda's lunch. Volkswagen is so famously known as "people's car company" and yet want to go upward to go head to head against BMW and Lexus, and even worse is that Volkswagen is also competing against Audi, its own luxury division. Right now the only German company still maintaining clear minds and heading toward a correct direction in my opinion is Porsche, yeah go ahead and make a four door sport sedan Porsche.

gavriil

Spy Shots: 2007 VW Sfero
Filling the gaps with a new crossover, VW style.
by Brenda Priddy (2003-11-03)

To fill the gap between the Passat and the Phaeton sedans, Volkswagen is expected to introduce a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive crossover. Expected to arrive in concept form in 2005, the actual production version should to be ready to launch in 2007.

The name "Sfero" was registered by Volkswagen in June of 2003. Insiders have told us that the Sfero will be a crossover between a wagon and an SUV, although all-wheel drive will not be offered

To lessen the development costs, Bernd Pischetsrieder and Ferrari-boss Luca di Montezemolo are said to be in agreement for a unique technology transfer: While Maserati will deliver the chassis of their brand-new Quattroporte sedan as a base for the new VW Sfero, Volkswagen will deliver the 4x4 chassis of its Touareg off-roader for the future Maserati Kubang SUV. This deal is actually quite interesting for both parties: while the Touareg's 4x4-chassis is regarded to be the best currently available, the Quattroporte's transaxle chassis allows an excellent weight-balance and therefore promises superb handling for the Sfero.

Another advantage of the Maserati chassis is the compatibility with Audi's V-8 engines. They are too large to be fitted under the hood of the next Passat - but they are said to fit perfectly in the Sfero, with the top-of-the line engine expected to offer as much as 450 horsepower.

Other luxury features include a new active steering system, a wide track and long wheelbase (114.2 inches), an electrically operated rear door, air suspension and LED taillights, and an adaptive brake light.

Lots of information has been leaking out about the Sfero, but apparently no decision has been made as to if the Sfero will be a four-, six- or even seven-passenger vehicle.

gavriil

"While Maserati will deliver the chassis of their brand-new Quattroporte sedan as a base for the new VW Sfero, Volkswagen will deliver the 4x4 chassis of its Touareg off-roader for the future Maserati Kubang SUV."


"Another advantage of the Maserati chassis is the compatibility with Audi's V-8 engines."


Hehehehe...

Red Nj-s

sweeeet