Volkswagen: Jetta News
01-18-2007, 07:36 PM
#201
Originally Posted by charliemike
You forgot your sarcasm tag 
01-18-2007, 07:54 PM
#202
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by taitando
It looks to be a good move to lower the price of the Jettas even if they have to decontent the cars. Excluding special versions (GLI, GTI) I had always viewed Jettas to be in the same class as Corollas, Civics, and Sentras. Pitting Jettas in the same price range as Camrys and Accords was just plain dumb. Similarly, I always thought Passats were more in the Camry and Accord class, so putting their pricing in the same range as a 3 series and A4 was just insane. I'm glad Wolfgang Bernhard was removed after his failed attempt to move VW upmarket.
(which is pretty much in line with what Gavrill posted back in June.) I am not certain what types of discounts can be secured on the 06 Passat but I cannot imagine paying thousands over a fully loaded G35 sedan or TL w/ Navi-HPT to only have a VW Passat in the end.
(....and just realized that it is only ~$2k less than the IS350 
)Sorry for the
01-18-2007, 10:59 PM
#203
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
How many miles do you have on the VW and is it your daily commuter?
Don't get me wrong, I want the VW but I've heard they don't hold up well. After this tranny issue with the CLS, I'm done with crap like this.
Don't get me wrong, I want the VW but I've heard they don't hold up well. After this tranny issue with the CLS, I'm done with crap like this.
I have a cousin with a 97 jetta that has over 100k miles on it and nothing like what everyone thinks happens to older VWs has happened. I believe the idea that German cars have horrid electrical problems, although true about 80's German car which i have first hand experience with, doesnt hold true anymore...
01-18-2007, 11:05 PM
#204
_____ like a rabbit
Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
My logic regarding the move to VW is this: I have gotten in touch with many GTI and MKV Rabbit owners, and the biggest issue is "the rattle". My dad owns a 2004 TSX, and when they first came out, that was the biggest issue. The dealer and waranty cleared that right out. Other than that, the only major issues with the GTI are a TSB that some dealers don't follow through on regarding adding Launch Control to pre 07 GTIs, something I will not have to deal with since I am getting an 07 or 08.
edit: oh and the Eos and Passat are grossly overpriced
edit: oh and the Eos and Passat are grossly overpriced
01-18-2007, 11:12 PM
#205
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Originally Posted by stangg172004
totally forgot about that. The only problem i have with my rabbit is this rattle thats caused by the cabin air filter atop the dash and yes the Eos is insanely overpriced. I think i saw one at the dealer for 36k!!!
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01-19-2007, 12:04 AM
#206
_____ like a rabbit
Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
i went to the same dealer. you know that. don't try running away from that fact.
to the general forum: we're life long friends and neighbors
to the general forum: we're life long friends and neighbors
i dont know him 
01-19-2007, 01:55 AM
#207
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by gavriil
"If we are going to be a volume player, we have to play the volume game," Hallmark said at a press event here. "If you look at the price-volume relationship, the decision is really clear."
Volkswagen cuts Jetta price in effort to regain volume; upmarket move to come later - - SOurce: Autoweek
Volkswagen cuts Jetta price in effort to regain volume; upmarket move to come later - - SOurce: Autoweek
VW needs to be a quality player and needs to play the quality game if they ever hope to regain their credibility and increase sales.
01-19-2007, 07:34 AM
#208
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Originally Posted by stangg172004
I believe the idea that German cars have horrid electrical problems, although true about 80's German car which i have first hand experience with, doesnt hold true anymore...
Not to mention my buddy's girlfriend's 2000 jetta that had to the ignition coil recall done, and also a myriad of other electrical "gremlins" (gauge lights constantly just "die").
basically your evidence and my evidence mean nothing in this forum. But on the larger scheme of things, the general consensus is that VW's and other german makes have relatively many more problems than their japanese counterparts...no matter how nicer the leather or headliner material is in the german car.
01-19-2007, 09:27 AM
#209
_____ like a rabbit
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
not sure how it is these past couple years, but my family has had german cars going into 2000 that had major electrical problems. a '94 SL500 with ignition problems (would sputter, stall and not restart in the middle of the highway once) that took years to finally resolve, a '00 s500 and a '91 560sel that both had a slow electrical leak somewhere (battery would die if car sat for 24hrs) which to this day could not be solved (s500 sold, sel is still being used).
Not to mention my buddy's girlfriend's 2000 jetta that had to the ignition coil recall done, and also a myriad of other electrical "gremlins" (gauge lights constantly just "die").
basically your evidence and my evidence mean nothing in this forum. But on the larger scheme of things, the general consensus is that VW's and other german makes have relatively many more problems than their japanese counterparts...no matter how nicer the leather or headliner material is in the german car.
Not to mention my buddy's girlfriend's 2000 jetta that had to the ignition coil recall done, and also a myriad of other electrical "gremlins" (gauge lights constantly just "die").
basically your evidence and my evidence mean nothing in this forum. But on the larger scheme of things, the general consensus is that VW's and other german makes have relatively many more problems than their japanese counterparts...no matter how nicer the leather or headliner material is in the german car.
unlike the smiley, i see not light bulb. I guess its the luck of the draw? worth it to some, but not for others...
01-19-2007, 10:01 AM
#210
2010 SHAWD
How much of a difference does the fact that the GTI is built in germany make? My salesmen told me that the GTI was mostly assembled in Mexico and that made a difference.
01-19-2007, 10:08 AM
#211
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Originally Posted by stangg172004
unlike the smiley, i see not light bulb. I guess its the luck of the draw? worth it to some, but not for others...I'll leave quality/reliability up to "luck" when i purchase $80 sheets at target rather than $150 sheets at Macy's, but I'd rather choose something with historically consistent decent reliability than to leave it up to luck when spending $20k+ on a car. When you're paying a premium over everything else on the market for a certain car (for example a Jetta over a Civic), you shouldn't have to depend on "luck" to get reliability from the more expensive car.
01-19-2007, 10:14 AM
#212
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
How much of a difference does the fact that the GTI is built in germany make? My salesmen told me that the GTI was mostly assembled in Mexico and that made a difference.
for example, the CL-S's are built in the U.S. had pretty shoddy "quality" and fit/finish problems due to manufacturing, but the design of the car is relatively reliable. But that's the same as the tranny...it was built mostly in Japan, so technically should have better fit/finish (for a tranny, that doesn't mean anything). but the design was what caused the problems, so the problem would occur wherever it was built...Japan, U.S., Africa, wherever.
From my experience most of the Euro cars we owned had very high quality and fit/finish, meaning the manufacturing was sound. But the design itself is what has caused problems. But i have not driven a car built in Mexico so I don't know. My buddy has a Focus built in Mexico, and that thing is pure crap...but not sure if it was designed like that or not since it's coming from Ford.
01-19-2007, 11:08 AM
#213
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I think reliability problems are more a design than a manufacturing problem and can occur anywhere it's manufactured.
for example, the CL-S's are built in the U.S. had pretty shoddy "quality" and fit/finish problems due to manufacturing, but the design of the car is relatively reliable. But that's the same as the tranny...it was built mostly in Japan, so technically should have better fit/finish (for a tranny, that doesn't mean anything). but the design was what caused the problems, so the problem would occur wherever it was built...Japan, U.S., Africa, wherever.
From my experience most of the Euro cars we owned had very high quality and fit/finish, meaning the manufacturing was sound. But the design itself is what has caused problems. But i have not driven a car built in Mexico so I don't know. My buddy has a Focus built in Mexico, and that thing is pure crap...but not sure if it was designed like that or not since it's coming from Ford.
for example, the CL-S's are built in the U.S. had pretty shoddy "quality" and fit/finish problems due to manufacturing, but the design of the car is relatively reliable. But that's the same as the tranny...it was built mostly in Japan, so technically should have better fit/finish (for a tranny, that doesn't mean anything). but the design was what caused the problems, so the problem would occur wherever it was built...Japan, U.S., Africa, wherever.
From my experience most of the Euro cars we owned had very high quality and fit/finish, meaning the manufacturing was sound. But the design itself is what has caused problems. But i have not driven a car built in Mexico so I don't know. My buddy has a Focus built in Mexico, and that thing is pure crap...but not sure if it was designed like that or not since it's coming from Ford.
01-19-2007, 11:31 AM
#214
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Originally Posted by charliemike
It really depends on the component. A turn signal switch shorting repeatedly is not a design flaw. It's a crappy part. Now, perhaps VW said to their suppliers, "We're only going to give you 7 euros per part" and it costs the supplier 6 euros to make properly. Guess who's gonna cut the quality of the part to ensure their margin?
If a turn signal shorts because it was installed incorrectly, then it is a manufacturing problem. But if it shorts because it's a crappy part, that's a design flaw because VW manufacturing can do a PERFECT job, yet the part will still fail.
01-19-2007, 11:43 AM
#215
2010 SHAWD
My heart wants the GTI but my wallet is apprehensive about it. Something makes me feel that they have a winner with this model but it hasn't been out long enough to get a sense of its reliability.
01-19-2007, 12:58 PM
#216
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
It does not depend on the component. Selection of outside/vendor components is an INTEGRAL part of the engineering/design of the product. If an engineer selects a crappy component from a vendor, then the design of the system will be flawed. If VW accountants choose a cheaper supplier, then again, the design of the system will be flawed.
If a turn signal shorts because it was installed incorrectly, then it is a manufacturing problem. But if it shorts because it's a crappy part, that's a design flaw because VW manufacturing can do a PERFECT job, yet the part will still fail.
If a turn signal shorts because it was installed incorrectly, then it is a manufacturing problem. But if it shorts because it's a crappy part, that's a design flaw because VW manufacturing can do a PERFECT job, yet the part will still fail.
01-19-2007, 02:10 PM
#217
Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
My heart wants the GTI but my wallet is apprehensive about it. Something makes me feel that they have a winner with this model but it hasn't been out long enough to get a sense of its reliability.
I was like you 1.5 years ago. My final choices came down to a TSX and a loaded Jetta 2.0T, both manual trans. The jetta nicer matreials, better usable drivetrain and more luxury features for $2000 CDN less. I had one problem. A rattle fixed when it had its first oil change. I guess im also one of the lucky many that have had success with this new car.
All cars have problems and all have recalls. Weather it be faulty coils, poorly designed trannies etc. Yesterday Honda recalled over 80,000 accords for faulty airbag sensors and today Toyota recalled over 550,000 tundras for faulty ball joints. Yet if VW/Audi recall 500,000 vehicles total (not just one line) for faulty coils it haunts them for years on these forums, yet the others are brushed aside.
Bottom line... go with what you like. Im sure glad I did.
PS... our family use to own a toyota dealership and own or have owned many japanese cars in our life. This jetta so far is our first german designed car and has been the most reliable for a new car.
01-19-2007, 02:18 PM
#218
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
How much of a difference does the fact that the GTI is built in germany make? My salesmen told me that the GTI was mostly assembled in Mexico and that made a difference.
Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
My heart wants the GTI but my wallet is apprehensive about it. Something makes me feel that they have a winner with this model but it hasn't been out long enough to get a sense of its reliability.
"5th Gear" Car of the Year, "What Car?" Car of the Year, Automobile Magazine Car of the Year, Car and Driver's 10 Best.
01-19-2007, 03:41 PM
#220
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Okay, you and I disagree on definitions.
As a mechanical engineer selecting equipment and planning and laying out designs for multi-million dollar projects with both proprietary and vendor equipment, I kinda know what constitutes a "design flaw" or not.
There are 2 types of flaws...design flaws and manufacturing flaws.
A design is the plan of what the product will be. It consists of what the parts are, where they go, and how they operate by themselves and how they operate as part of the system. The parts can be proprietary or vendor parts, but they are specifically selected as part of the design. If the selected component is consistently crappy because the vendor is cheaper, then the engineer/designer (or accountant) selected a crappy component as part of his design...ie a design flaw. There's no other way to define it.
An engineer hopefully just doesn't say, "Oh you can put in whatever, i don't care!". And of course it is not "intended" for the component to be crappy (hence the word "flaw"), but nevertheless it is still part of the design and still a flaw (until a more reliable component from another vendor/supplier is selected).
01-19-2007, 03:42 PM
#221
2010 SHAWD
Guys, thanks for ALL of the great advice and info. It didn't dawn on me that the GTI was not in its 1st year. That may have sealed the deal.
Thanks again but keep the opinions coming if you have more. I know that if I do get this car, I'm not leaving AZ.
Thanks again but keep the opinions coming if you have more. I know that if I do get this car, I'm not leaving AZ.
01-19-2007, 04:22 PM
#222
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyacura
I know that if I do get this car, I'm not leaving AZ.
I thought you were in Baltimore...there's a 'Baltimore' in Arizona?
01-19-2007, 05:51 PM
#223
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Going OT...
As a mechanical engineer selecting equipment and planning and laying out designs for multi-million dollar projects with both proprietary and vendor equipment, I kinda know what constitutes a "design flaw" or not.
There are 2 types of flaws...design flaws and manufacturing flaws.
A design is the plan of what the product will be. It consists of what the parts are, where they go, and how they operate by themselves and how they operate as part of the system. The parts can be proprietary or vendor parts, but they are specifically selected as part of the design. If the selected component is consistently crappy because the vendor is cheaper, then the engineer/designer (or accountant) selected a crappy component as part of his design...ie a design flaw. There's no other way to define it.
An engineer hopefully just doesn't say, "Oh you can put in whatever, i don't care!". And of course it is not "intended" for the component to be crappy (hence the word "flaw"), but nevertheless it is still part of the design and still a flaw (until a more reliable component from another vendor/supplier is selected).
As a mechanical engineer selecting equipment and planning and laying out designs for multi-million dollar projects with both proprietary and vendor equipment, I kinda know what constitutes a "design flaw" or not.
There are 2 types of flaws...design flaws and manufacturing flaws.
A design is the plan of what the product will be. It consists of what the parts are, where they go, and how they operate by themselves and how they operate as part of the system. The parts can be proprietary or vendor parts, but they are specifically selected as part of the design. If the selected component is consistently crappy because the vendor is cheaper, then the engineer/designer (or accountant) selected a crappy component as part of his design...ie a design flaw. There's no other way to define it.
An engineer hopefully just doesn't say, "Oh you can put in whatever, i don't care!". And of course it is not "intended" for the component to be crappy (hence the word "flaw"), but nevertheless it is still part of the design and still a flaw (until a more reliable component from another vendor/supplier is selected).
I don't want to fight anymore. Hold me?
01-19-2007, 06:22 PM
#224
2G TLX-S
Originally Posted by stangg172004
In defense of VW, look at these issued TSBs . Notice how many are issued for Toyota, Honda, BMW, MB, GM. Yes Honda has less then VW but only by 28 and when u compare VW to the rest of the German makes, they're doing damn well. Yes u might be thinking but this doesn't guarantee a car that will last 200k+ miles, but i think it does because the number of problems that a car shows early on correlates to the amount it will have down the line. Oh and look at Lexus, they have only 2 less then VW
<--VW owner with 0 problems
Oh and look at Lexus, they have only 2 less then VW <--VW owner with 0 problems
01-19-2007, 07:28 PM
#225
_____ like a rabbit
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
sure it's the luck of the draw when you buy cars that are considered unreliable on average.
I'll leave quality/reliability up to "luck" when i purchase $80 sheets at target rather than $150 sheets at Macy's, but I'd rather choose something with historically consistent decent reliability than to leave it up to luck when spending $20k+ on a car. When you're paying a premium over everything else on the market for a certain car (for example a Jetta over a Civic), you shouldn't have to depend on "luck" to get reliability from the more expensive car.
I'll leave quality/reliability up to "luck" when i purchase $80 sheets at target rather than $150 sheets at Macy's, but I'd rather choose something with historically consistent decent reliability than to leave it up to luck when spending $20k+ on a car. When you're paying a premium over everything else on the market for a certain car (for example a Jetta over a Civic), you shouldn't have to depend on "luck" to get reliability from the more expensive car.
01-19-2007, 07:29 PM
#226
_____ like a rabbit
Originally Posted by charliemike
My point is that VW isn't making those components. GM can give Delco specs for something and Delco can still fuck it up
I don't want to fight anymore. Hold me?
I don't want to fight anymore. Hold me?
01-20-2007, 12:20 PM
#228
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
TSB (technical service bulletins) are not necessarily issued for recall works. Sometimes they are issued for updated instructions to service new components or systems as well as service information that is not available in the factory service manuals. So they cannot be used to accurately compare brand reliabilities.
01-20-2007, 01:31 PM
#229
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
TSB (technical service bulletins) are not necessarily issued for recall works. Sometimes they are issued for updated instructions to service new components or systems as well as service information that is not available in the factory service manuals. So they cannot be used to accurately compare brand reliabilities.
TSB's range from fixing a common customer complaint (sunroof squeek fix with tape like on the TL/CL-s) to what the best sequence dealers should remove underbody panels to do an oil change to what that doo-hickey under the hood next to the dipstick is. Just because a company issues more TSB's doesn't have any correlation to their quality/reliability.
01-20-2007, 04:15 PM
#230
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Originally Posted by F23A4
Simple: Look to the used car market and compare the condition of 96-97 Civics to that of 96-97 Jettas/Golfs. This should provide some feel for how an 07 Civic and 07 Golf may fare in 10 years' time.
As the wife and I have been in the market for our son's first car, I can state that higher mileage Civics seem to be in MUCH better shape than lower mileage Golfs/Jettas of the same years.
.
As the wife and I have been in the market for our son's first car, I can state that higher mileage Civics seem to be in MUCH better shape than lower mileage Golfs/Jettas of the same years.
.
Audi/VW have ramped up quality standards in the past few years to really beef up their quality. comparing their late models to current models isn't a fair comparison IMHO.
I'm not saying VW/Audi has passed Honda in terms of reliability, but they have come a very long way in the last 10 years.
Last edited by Sly Raskal; 01-20-2007 at 04:17 PM.
01-20-2007, 06:08 PM
#232
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
So you're basically saying that the VW of 96-97 are the same exact build quality as the VW of today?
Audi/VW have ramped up quality standards in the past few years to really beef up their quality. comparing their late models to current models isn't a fair comparison IMHO.
I'm not saying VW/Audi has passed Honda in terms of reliability, but they have come a very long way in the last 10 years.
Audi/VW have ramped up quality standards in the past few years to really beef up their quality. comparing their late models to current models isn't a fair comparison IMHO.
I'm not saying VW/Audi has passed Honda in terms of reliability, but they have come a very long way in the last 10 years.
01-21-2007, 03:25 AM
#233
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Originally Posted by Saintor
A bit off-topic, but 599$ and you just bought yourself a 252HP/303lbs-ft engine (APR). Wow.
01-21-2007, 08:22 AM
#234
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
So you're basically saying that the VW of 96-97 are the same exact build quality as the VW of today?
Audi/VW have ramped up quality standards in the past few years to really beef up their quality. comparing their late models to current models isn't a fair comparison IMHO.
I'm not saying VW/Audi has passed Honda in terms of reliability, but they have come a very long way in the last 10 years.
Audi/VW have ramped up quality standards in the past few years to really beef up their quality. comparing their late models to current models isn't a fair comparison IMHO.
I'm not saying VW/Audi has passed Honda in terms of reliability, but they have come a very long way in the last 10 years.
11-10-2009, 03:48 PM
#235
The sizzle in the Steak
Illustrated: 2011 Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen’s Jetta has long been its bread and butter sedan in North America, and since it’s not a big player elsewhere, the next-generation model set to debut for 2011 will probably be a little more tailored for the North American market. Our illustration, based on what we’ve been able to discern from tight-lipped VW so far, shows a clear familiar resemblance to the new Golf.
Earlier this year, our spy photographers caught up with the Jetta. Internally known as NCS – or New Compact Sedan – this updated Jetta will be built on a re-engineered fifth-generation Jetta platform. The new model has also been referred to as the Jetta VI.
The Jetta name will likely be carried over, and assembly will continue to take place at Volkswagen’s Puebla, Mexico, plant, but the new Jetta will measure in slightly longer and a bit wider. Volkswagen plans to sell 160,000 units annually as it hopes to convert some potential Corolla and Civic buyers with its lower base price.
Although cost-cutting measures may be obvious compared to the current Jetta, there is speculation that an all-wheel drive option may be offered.
A diesel will certainly be part of the equation, but the future of Volkswagen’s 2.5-liter five-cylinder is up in the air. Not as fuel-efficient as rivals’ four-bangers, its main advantage to the German automaker is the low cost of producing it.
Earlier this year, our spy photographers caught up with the Jetta. Internally known as NCS – or New Compact Sedan – this updated Jetta will be built on a re-engineered fifth-generation Jetta platform. The new model has also been referred to as the Jetta VI.
The Jetta name will likely be carried over, and assembly will continue to take place at Volkswagen’s Puebla, Mexico, plant, but the new Jetta will measure in slightly longer and a bit wider. Volkswagen plans to sell 160,000 units annually as it hopes to convert some potential Corolla and Civic buyers with its lower base price.
Although cost-cutting measures may be obvious compared to the current Jetta, there is speculation that an all-wheel drive option may be offered.
A diesel will certainly be part of the equation, but the future of Volkswagen’s 2.5-liter five-cylinder is up in the air. Not as fuel-efficient as rivals’ four-bangers, its main advantage to the German automaker is the low cost of producing it.
11-10-2009, 09:14 PM
#236
Some dude
Although cost-cutting measures may be obvious compared to the current Jetta
11-11-2009, 07:46 AM
#237
Senior Moderator
Rear end looks much better. Almost too close to the rear end of an A4 though.
I don't quite understand the cost cutting comment. The Jetta has always been a Golf with a trunk. The new Golf has clearly taken a step up in terms of quality so why would the Jetta be any different.
I don't quite understand the cost cutting comment. The Jetta has always been a Golf with a trunk. The new Golf has clearly taken a step up in terms of quality so why would the Jetta be any different.
11-11-2009, 11:00 AM
#238
The sizzle in the Steak
Rear end looks much better. Almost too close to the rear end of an A4 though.
I don't quite understand the cost cutting comment. The Jetta has always been a Golf with a trunk. The new Golf has clearly taken a step up in terms of quality so why would the Jetta be any different.
I don't quite understand the cost cutting comment. The Jetta has always been a Golf with a trunk. The new Golf has clearly taken a step up in terms of quality so why would the Jetta be any different.
Who knows what the MMS will be called.
Jetta will now = civic/corolla
MMS = Accord / Camry
11-11-2009, 11:11 AM
#239
Senior Moderator
But as long as it shares a platform with the Golf, how could the quality be any less?
The Jetta - Golf were identical in terms of interior layout and quality. Why would that change. The Golf hasn't gone downmarket.
The Jetta - Golf were identical in terms of interior layout and quality. Why would that change. The Golf hasn't gone downmarket.