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Volkswagen: Development and Technology News

Old 10-05-2015, 01:04 PM
  #281  
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I would not put any VW TDI in my shop right now. If i had a shop

40 times higher... not 40% higher.

Get that shit away from me.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:07 PM
  #282  
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Volkswagen Wiped Diesels From Their U.S. Website

Very interesting.....

Volkswagen Wiped Diesels From Their U.S. Website

Volkswagen is in some deep stuff right now. So deep, in fact, that they just deleted diesels from their website.

Volkswagen’s turmoil is pretty serious right now. We writers came up with the silly “Dieselgate” name, and lets be honest, anytime the media slaps “gate” at the end of anything, you know there’s trouble.

If you open up VW’s website, you’ll find nary a mention of diesels and you won’t find most their questionable TDIs on their car configurator (the Touareg TDI is the only one left)—crazy considering how just a month ago VW was touting their diesels as the second coming.

On one hand, since you can’t buy one, it makes sense that you can’t configure one. But on the other hand, many automakers offer configurators for vehicles not yet on the market. Volkswagen’s diesels will come back at some point, so why delete them from the website?

Either Volkswagen has no ballpark idea of when diesels will make a comeback, or it’s just going to be a really long time from now.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:19 PM
  #283  
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I think it is fine.

No one is going to buy TDI from them for a while... i mean a LONG time.

VW had tried very hard to improve their reliability and reputation. I think this Dieselgate just kicked them back into the Ice age.
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:29 PM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
I think it is fine.

No one is going to buy TDI from them for a while... i mean a LONG time.

VW had tried very hard to improve their reliability and reputation. I think this Dieselgate just kicked them back into the Ice age.
At first I thought losing VW's brand in the US was an exaggeration, but then I thought, "Would I actually buy one now?". The answer is an emphatic "No".
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:18 PM
  #285  
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You know what.... I should US should just ban VW for 10 years.

after all, this was intentional and the result is not just 40%, it is 40 times higher!!

US should use VW as an example to all the other manufactures.

Does not matter how big you are, you fuck up bad enough, then you are banned.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:41 PM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
You know what.... I should US should just ban VW for 10 years.

after all, this was intentional and the result is not just 40%, it is 40 times higher!!

US should use VW as an example to all the other manufactures.

Does not matter how big you are, you fuck up bad enough, then you are banned.
C'mon now, this isn't a message board we are talking about. This is a company that sells thousands of cars a year in this country, under several different brands, and manufactures MANY of those cars right here in the States. Such a thing would be an economic shot in its own foot for the U.S. to do that. VW is going to get hit, hard. But, ours is their most important market. They'll submit to whatever punishment the government (and courts) mete out, but it would be severely harmful to our own economy to completely kick them out.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:54 PM
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I know it is all about $$ and ban is highly unlikely.

But I think VW pretty much already indirectly banned themselves from most of the future customers. I am not sure how long this effect will last. but it will last a while. Unlike Toyota or GM or other brand that have recently been fined, which had little to no impact on their sales. They admitted that a mistake is made and go on.

VW is going to be stuck in this for a long time, and the penalty from the US government is just the beginning.

good thing is most of the buyers do not know Audi and Porsche are part of VW, so i would suspect Audi and Porsche will continue without much trouble.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:09 PM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
I know it is all about $$ and ban is highly unlikely.

But I think VW pretty much already indirectly banned themselves from most of the future customers. I am not sure how long this effect will last. but it will last a while. Unlike Toyota or GM or other brand that have recently been fined, which had little to no impact on their sales. They admitted that a mistake is made and go on.

VW is going to be stuck in this for a long time, and the penalty from the US government is just the beginning.

good thing is most of the buyers do not know Audi and Porsche are part of VW, so i would suspect Audi and Porsche will continue without much trouble.
I gotta say, I have my doubts about the lingering effects of this issue. Diesels were sold in relatively low quantities here. Besides, when it's all said and done, the TDI is still a good engine. Let's see where the revised software mapping shakes out in terms of performance and see if it's really all that material in terms of HP and TQ.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:19 PM
  #289  
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
And in the grand scheme of things I much rather have a VW that pollutes slightly more for better mileage. Unlike the media and tree-huggers would lead you to believe, modern cars have virtually no effect on climate change.
Says the biker with advanced degrees in pollution control? Good luck with that.

“Statistically, we can’t point out who died because of this policy, but some people have died or likely died as a result of this,” said Carnegie Mellon environmental engineer professor Peter Adams. He calculates the cost of air pollution with a sophisticated computer model that he and the AP used in its analysis.

Computer software allowed VW diesel cars to spew between 10 to 40 times more nitrogen oxides (NOx) than allowed by regulation, making this “clearly a concern for air quality and public health,” said Janet McCabe, acting air quality chief for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Nitrogen oxides mostly form smog — that murky, dirty air that makes it hard to see and for some people to breathe — but also amplify a deadlier, larger problem: tiny particles of soot. Numerous medical studies show those tiny particles cause about 50,000 deaths a year in the United States, mostly from heart problems.

Nitrogen oxides can travel hundreds of miles, so pollution spewed in Pittsburgh can be felt on the East Coast, Adams said....
VW deception likely led to dozens of deaths in U.S.
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:35 PM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by Black Tire View Post
Well this explains Audi's dominance in LeMans. If that engineer is found guilty, then Audi should be stripped of all the LeMans titles.

Volkswagen Emissions Investigation Zeroes In on Two Engineers - WSJ
Why? They didn't cheat in the LeMans.
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:37 PM
  #291  
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All I care about is somehow someway the penalty to VW is to Porsche car prices.


I want a 911 for $10,000.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:06 PM
  #292  
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Originally Posted by Yumcha View Post
All I care about is somehow someway the penalty to VW is to Porsche car prices.


I want a 911 for $10,000.
What about $34.50?
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:21 PM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
What about $34.50?
But, Porsche is not ...so, not likely.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:39 PM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by Yumcha View Post
All I care about is somehow someway the penalty to VW is to Porsche car prices.


I want a 911 for $10,000.
you give me $10,000 and i will find you a 911....
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Old 10-06-2015, 02:25 AM
  #295  
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci View Post
Says the biker with advanced degrees in pollution control? Good luck with that.
Why don't you ask that professor how many deaths are caused by the backyard BBQ? Extrapolating numbers, especially in the medical field, are only meaningful to attract headlines and grant money.
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Old 10-06-2015, 02:31 AM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
after all, this was intentional and the result is not just 40%, it is 40 times higher!!
This is what happens when you grab a headline and have no context. Did it occur to anyone that the test that mentioned this was talking about an on road test whereas the EPA levels are measured at idle. Of course you'll have more emissions on the road (even with an EPA legal car), due to the greater load and engine RPM. The testers may have had a car that needed some work - a simple leaking fuel injector could cause huge increases in emission. The problem with any headline is that by the time the context and real truth comes out, none of that matters since the public doesn't care anymore.
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Old 10-06-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by yumcha View Post
all i care about is somehow someway the penalty to vw is to porsche car prices. :o


i want a 911 for $10,000.
911 tdi?
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:02 AM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci View Post

“Statistically, we can’t point out who died because of this policy, but some people have died or likely died as a result of this,” said Carnegie Mellon environmental engineer professor Peter Adams. He calculates the cost of air pollution with a sophisticated computer model that he and the AP used in its analysis.

Computer software allowed VW diesel cars to spew between 10 to 40 times more nitrogen oxides (NOx) than allowed by regulation, making this “clearly a concern for air quality and public health,” said Janet McCabe, acting air quality chief for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Nitrogen oxides mostly form smog — that murky, dirty air that makes it hard to see and for some people to breathe — but also amplify a deadlier, larger problem: tiny particles of soot. Numerous medical studies show those tiny particles cause about 50,000 deaths a year in the United States, mostly from heart problems.

Nitrogen oxides can travel hundreds of miles, so pollution spewed in Pittsburgh can be felt on the East Coast, Adams said....

VW deception likely led to dozens of deaths in U.S.

Yea..... Because there arent any other Diesels on the road polluting more than them. 1 Chevy, Ford, or Dodge pickup slightly modified Rollin Coal across 1 intersection probably pollutes more in 60 feet than a VW does in its lifetime (the difference in the EPA allowable limits and what they are actually producing that people are complaining about)

Somewhere some redneck is doing something like this (below) making this claim utterly stupid.

http://www.musclecarszone.com/hard-d...smoke-mixture/



Or this



Last edited by fsttyms1; 10-06-2015 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 10-06-2015, 04:59 PM
  #299  
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Volkswagen CEO Matthias Mueller warns of 'massive' cost cutting

As usual, when the top people lie and cheat, it's the employee who suffer...

Volkswagen CEO Matthias Mueller warns of 'massive' cost cutting - Business - CBC News

New Volkswagen CEO Matthias Mueller warned staff on Tuesday to brace for "massive cutbacks" in response to the diesel emissions scandal that has hammered the company's stock and reputation.

Speaking to employees at VW headquarters in Wolfsburg, Mueller, who replaced longtime CEO Martin Winterkorn late last month, said all the company's investment plans would be put under review and an existing cost-cutting programme accelerated, cautioning, "this will not be painless".

It was the first admission that the emissions crisis, which has sent tremors through the broader auto industry, could lead to significant job cuts at the company, which employs close to 60,000 at its main factory, roughly 10 percent of its global workforce.

"We need to make massive cutbacks in order to manage the consequences of the crisis," Mueller told more than 20,000 workers at the staff gathering, according to a statement released by Volkswagen.

"Technical solutions to the problems are within view. However, the business and financial consequences are not yet clear," he said, adding that VW would review all of its investment plans.

"What is not urgently needed will be scrapped or delayed," Mueller said. "And therefore we will adjust our efficiency programme. I will be very open: this won't be painless."

Workers at the meeting wore t-shirts emblazoned with the slogan "One team - one family" and held up banners declaring "We are Volkswagen"

Earlier, Bernd Osterloh, the influential head of VW's works council, said the scandal would impact earnings at the core autos division as well as bonus payments to workers.

But he played down the impact on jobs, saying there were no immediate plans to cut staff and stressing that workers would not "foot the bill for the wrongdoings of a group of managers". VW employs roughly 60,000 people at its main factory.

Mueller said the company's more important task was to restore trust after it admitted that 11 million vehicles were affected by the rigging of diesel emissions tests. But he noted that thoroughness was more important than speed in clearing up the issue.

The company has an Oct. 7 deadline to present a plan to Germany's KBA regulator to bring diesel emissions into line with the law.

A letter sent to German lawmakers and seen by Reuters on Tuesday said that 8 million diesel vehicles in the European Union were fitted with software capable of cheating vehicle emissions tests.

Mueller said for some of the vehicles it would be sufficient to have software refitted, while others may need additional work on the hardware.

Sources close to Volkswagen's board had told Reuters last week that it was considering cost cuts as well as measures to boost cash flow in order to prop up its credit rating.
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Old 10-06-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
This is what happens when you grab a headline and have no context. Did it occur to anyone that the test that mentioned this was talking about an on road test whereas the EPA levels are measured at idle. Of course you'll have more emissions on the road (even with an EPA legal car), due to the greater load and engine RPM. The testers may have had a car that needed some work - a simple leaking fuel injector could cause huge increases in emission. The problem with any headline is that by the time the context and real truth comes out, none of that matters since the public doesn't care anymore.
Yah i expect it to be higher at higher RPM or due to some broken parts, injector, catalytic converter and exhaust.

That is why we have the required smog check.

Still, could all the above cause 40 TIMES higher? 40%, 100% ok.
But 4000%????

and that is when the car is not broken, when you add some broken cat, exhaust and injectors into the mix... now it could be 5000%.

Unless VW did not intentionally cheat the software, otherwise, why should the public care?
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Old 10-07-2015, 06:27 PM
  #301  
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
Why don't you ask that professor how many deaths are caused by the backyard BBQ? Extrapolating numbers, especially in the medical field, are only meaningful to attract headlines and grant money.
Oh yeah, the dreaded vast left wing grant money industrial complex.


Feel free to suck on the end of a TDI tailpipe for about 20 minutes and let us know how you feel before you poo~poo the repercussions of diesel soot.
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Old 10-08-2015, 02:05 AM
  #302  
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci View Post
Feel free to suck on the end of a TDI tailpipe for about 20 minutes and let us know how you feel before you poo~poo the repercussions of diesel soot.
My point is that even if the 11 million VWs are in fact at 40x EPA level of emission, they are not the cause of ills around the world. There are much worse polluters (earlier models of the same car for example) and the minuscule pollution caused by VW diesels (within EPA limit or not) is not the main cause of people dying. Go visit Beijing on a winter day and look up at the sky (or LA on a smoggy day) - what you see there is not caused by VW diesels. And guess what, despite the increase in the number of ICE engines (diesel or otherwise, within EPA limit or otherwise) around the world, the air is still cleaner today in the US than it was 30 years ago.

So just like the climate change "professors" livelihood depends on perpetuating the myth that man made global warming is destroying the planet (there's warming but a very small fraction of it is caused by man and mankind going back to the stone age will not stop the warming), there will be "environmental" professors whose livelihood may depend on piling on to this "dieselgate" issue.

Biker, who would bet money that the professor that mentioned the increase in deaths from diesel-gate is a tree-hugging liberal.

Last edited by biker; 10-08-2015 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:32 AM
  #303  
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Correct me if i am wrong, so you do not believe in Global Warming
and you do not think the dramatic changes in the past 100 years are caused by human?



and we are not saying VW is the cause of the global warming but its intentional lying to its customers and the government while proudly advertise their cars as "Clean Diesel". The supposed polluters like the V8 and other gas powered cars are getting more efficient and produce less and less CO2 while the supposed "Clean" cars are actually producing more pollution. The irony....

I am by no means "Green" but I will be first one to admit that human is the primary cause of all negative things on this planet.

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Old 10-08-2015, 10:00 AM
  #304  
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Prosecutors raid homes of VW employees, VW headquarters

What the heck is going on over there? Are VW employees destroying the evidence?

Prosecutors raid homes of VW employees, VW headquarters | Toronto Star

The raids were carried out Thursday in Wolfsburg, where VW has its headquarters, and at other locations.

By: Geir Moulson Associated Press, Published on Thu Oct 08 2015

BERLIN — German prosecutors carried out searches Thursday in connection with their investigation of the Volkswagen emissions scandal, seeking material that would help clarify who was responsible for the cheating.

The raids were carried out Thursday in Wolfsburg, where VW has its headquarters, and at other locations, prosecutors in nearby Braunschweig said in a statement.

They said the aim of the searches was to “secure documents and data storage devices” that could identify those involved in the alleged manipulation and explain how it was carried out.

According to Bloomberg, three prosecutors and some 50 state criminal investigators searched the carmaker’s factories in Wolfsburg, as well as the homes of several employees, said Birgit Seel, a senior prosecutor in the German state of Lower Saxony. Investigators took documents and electronic media.

Prosecutors last week launched an investigation to determine who was responsible for suspected fraud committed through the sale of vehicles with manipulated emissions data. They acted after receiving about a dozen criminal complaints from citizens and one from VW itself.

Longtime chief executive Martin Winterkorn resigned after the scandal broke in the U.S. on Sept. 18, saying that he was not aware of any wrongdoing on his part. He was replaced by Porsche boss Matthias Mueller.

Volkswagen has suspended four individuals, including three managers who were responsible for engine development, and hired U.S. law firm Jones Day to conduct an investigation.

Earlier Thursday, Germany’s vice chancellor travelled to Wolfsburg to send a message of support to the automaker’s employees, and urged the company to be pro-active in its efforts to clear up the scandal.

Sigmar Gabriel, who is also Germany’s economy minister, joined a meeting of employee representatives from Germany and beyond as Volkswagen tries to determine who was responsible for the installation of test-cheating software and how quickly up to 11 million vehicles that potentially contain it can be fixed.

“I think it is important to send the message that, in the end, the employees must not pay the price for ... criminal behaviour by managers,” Gabriel said in Wolfsburg, where VW is headquartered.

“It is clear that the company must clear this up — the more offensively it does so, the better,” Gabriel said. “The more defensively it approaches the question, the more difficult it will be. My impression is that the supervisory board and the new CEO know this.”

The company says a recall of cars with the suspect software could start in Germany in January and last until the end of next year. On Wednesday, Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt said the automaker said in reply to German authorities’ demand for a timetable that there would be a recall for vehicles with 2-litre, 1.6-litre and 1.2-litre engines.

VW said the 2-litre engines will need a software update that should be ready before the year’s end and be installed from the beginning of 2016, according to Dobrindt. He said 1.6-litre vehicles will need “an engineering modification that according to Volkswagen shouldn’t be expected before September 2016.”

There are some 3.6 million 1.6-litre cars in Europe, Dobrindt said. He didn’t say what fix 1.2-litre cars will require.

The software in question, known as a “defeat device,” is capable of turning on pollution controls for lab tests and shutting them off during real-world driving. German daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported Thursday that VW apparently used it for that purpose in Europe as well as the U.S.

Volkswagen said in an emailed response to questions about the report that “whether and to what extent this software actually intervenes improperly is currently still the object of internal and external tests.” The company added that it’s also not yet clear whether the software was banned under European rules.

With files from Bloomberg
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:08 AM
  #305  
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Has anyone seen any articles with actual data and numbers from the ICCT researchers who measured the emission violation found?

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/23/r...vw-got-caught/

From what I read they presented the data and info to EPA and VW in 2013, and VW agreed it was a problem then IIRC.

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Old 10-08-2015, 01:08 PM
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If it does costs $40 billion to fix this mess, VW will be on it's knees and near bankrupt.


https://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-chief-kn...--finance.html

By Andreas Cremer

BERLIN (Reuters) - German prosecutors raided Volkswagen's headquarters and other offices on Thursday as part of their investigation into the carmaker's rigging of diesel emissions tests.

Prosecutors from Braunschweig, close to the German company's home town of Wolfsburg, said they were targeting documents and data storage devices that might help with their inquiries.

Volkswagen said it was supporting the investigation and had handed over a "comprehensive" range of documents.

Almost three weeks after it confessed publicly to rigging U.S. emissions tests, Europe's largest carmaker is under huge pressure to identify those responsible, fix affected vehicles and clarify exactly how and where the cheating happened.

The biggest business crisis in Volkswagen's 78-year history has wiped more than a third off its share price, forced out its long-time chief executive, prompted investigations across the world and rocked both the car industry and German establishment.

Later on Thursday, the company's top U.S. executive will tell a panel of U.S. lawmakers he knew the carmaker might be breaking U.S. emissions rules as long as 18 months before it admitted cheating diesel tests to regulators.

The admission by Michael Horn, in a written testimony to a congressional oversight panel a day ahead of the hearing, is likely to raise questions about why the company did not act more quickly to tackle its wrongdoing.

"In the spring of 2014 ... I was told that there was a possible emissions non-compliance that could be remedied," Horn, President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, said in his statement published on a U.S. House of Representatives website.

"I was also informed that the company engineers would work with the agencies to resolve the issue," he said, without identifying the people providing him with the information.

It was not until Sept. 3, 2015, that Volkswagen told U.S. regulators it had installed so-called "defeat devices" in some diesel engines to mask their true level of toxic emissions. U.S. regulators made public the wrongdoing on Sept. 18.

Volkswagen has come under fire on both sides of the Atlantic for its handling of the crisis, with lawmakers, investors and customers saying it has been too slow to release information.

Analysts are still unsure how widespread the cheating was.

Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper reported on Thursday that Volkswagen's manipulation software was switched on in Europe, citing a company spokesman.

The carmaker has previously said the software could be installed on up to 11 million vehicles, mostly in Europe, but that for the majority of them it "does not have any effect".

In a statement on Thursday, Volkswagen said it was still investigating whether or to what extent the software interfered illegally with vehicles.

"We are working intensely on technical solutions," a spokesman said. "For that reason, questions posed at this point of time are speculative."

IN-HOUSE

Volkswagen has suspended more than 10 senior managers, including three top engineers, as part of an internal investigation. It has also hired U.S. law firm Jones Day to conduct an external inquiry.

But some analysts have questioned whether new Chairman Hans Dieter Poetsch and new CEO Matthias Mueller, both company veterans, will introduce the sweeping changes in business practices they think are necessary to restore Volkswagen's reputation.

Poetsch said on Wednesday it would take "some time" to get to the bottom of the matter.

The company, controlled by the Piech-Porsche clan, is not drawing on outside restructuring experts to help with its plans for a new company structure, one source close to the board said.

"There’s a strong tradition to handle such matters in-house," the source said, adding the company was also unlikely to draw on outside experts as it reviews investment plans and steps up cost savings to help meet the cost of the scandal.

Critics say giving top jobs to company insiders could also complicate the clean-up. For example, it would make it hard for the supervisory board to take legal action against the management board because, until he became supervisory board chairman, Poetsch sat on the management board as finance chief.

UBS analysts estimate Volkswagen could face a bill of around 35 billion euros ($40 billion) to refit cars, pay regulatory fines and settle lawsuits, though they also say this is more than factored into the stock price after its plunge.

The crisis has been a major embarrassment for Germany, which has for years held up Volkswagen as a model of the country's engineering prowess and looks to the car industry as a source of export income and an employer of more than 750,000 people.

Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel on Thursday urged Volkswagen to be pro-active in addressing its problems, but also said critics should not overstep the mark.

"There should not be a debate about the automotive industry or about diesel technology," Gabriel said after attending a meeting of Volkswagen's world workers council.

Data on Thursday showed German exports plunged in August by the largest amount since the height of the global financial crisis in the latest sign that slowing emerging markets are hurting Europe's largest economy.

European carmakers rely heavily on diesel vehicles, which account for about a half of new sales in Europe compared with only a small fraction in the United States.

Horn, reaffirmed in his position by Volkswagen on Sept. 25, also said in his testimony Volkswagen had withdrawn its U.S. certification application for some model year 2016 vehicles over a software feature that should have been disclosed to regulators as an auxiliary emissions control device.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Tire View Post
If it does costs $40 billion to fix this mess, VW will be on it's knees and near bankrupt.


https://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-chief-kn...--finance.html
My guess is there are a number of liability insurance policies that will come into play to defray some of that cost. However, the litigation alone (if this keeps up) could add significantly to the negative financial impact.
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
My guess is there are a number of liability insurance policies that will come into play to defray some of that cost.
Don't insurance policies usually have some clause that voids coverage due to fraud, which this clearly is?
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Old 10-08-2015, 04:20 PM
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I agree. Insurance will not cover deliberate fraud. Every single dime will come from VW's pockets.

Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
Don't insurance policies usually have some clause that voids coverage due to fraud, which this clearly is?
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
Don't insurance policies usually have some clause that voids coverage due to fraud, which this clearly is?
Originally Posted by Black Tire View Post
I agree. Insurance will not cover deliberate fraud. Every single dime will come from VW's pockets.
I'm not an attorney, but I do work in a profession that deals with both insurance companies and fraud. The answer is - it depends. It depends on who the culpable party is, what their responsibilities were, how the liability and D&O policies are written, the applicable laws that govern (which vary significantly across state lines in the U.S., not to mention U.S. v. Germany v. Japan v. ....), etc. In short, yes there could be coverage, but it's not a given. I'm sure that will be litigated as well.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
My point is that even if the 11 million VWs are in fact at 40x EPA level of emission, they are not the cause of ills around the world. There are much worse polluters (earlier models of the same car for example) and the minuscule pollution caused by VW diesels (within EPA limit or not) is not the main cause of people dying.
No body is saying VW's are the sole cause of "ills around the world", but it is clear that they purposely circumvented pollution rules to the detriment of air quality.

Go visit Beijing on a winter day and look up at the sky (or LA on a smoggy day) - what you see there is not caused by VW diesels. And guess what, despite the increase in the number of ICE engines (diesel or otherwise, within EPA limit or otherwise) around the world, the air is still cleaner today in the US than it was 30 years ago.
I've been to plenty of cities in China (probably many more than you) and am well aware the source of their poor air quality is varied and cannot be pinpointed to one source. And guess what, the air quality is cleaner in the US today precisely because of the EPA and CARB pollution regulations such that VW tried to circumvent.

So just like the climate change "professors" livelihood depends on perpetuating the myth that man made global warming is destroying the planet (there's warming but a very small fraction of it is caused by man and mankind going back to the stone age will not stop the warming), there will be "environmental" professors whose livelihood may depend on piling on to this "dieselgate" issue.
Now you are starting to sound like a low information voter who can see Russia from their house and I'd like to think you're smarter than that. Instead of spewing dogma and hyperbole, why don't you stick to facts instead of making this a political issue.

Biker, who would bet money that the professor that mentioned the increase in deaths from diesel-gate is a tree-hugging liberal.
Most reasonable people prefer to drink clean water and breathe clean air, not just crunchy tree-hugging liberals.
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
This is what happens when you grab a headline and have no context. Did it occur to anyone that the test that mentioned this was talking about an on road test whereas the EPA levels are measured at idle. Of course you'll have more emissions on the road (even with an EPA legal car), due to the greater load and engine RPM. The testers may have had a car that needed some work - a simple leaking fuel injector could cause huge increases in emission. The problem with any headline is that by the time the context and real truth comes out, none of that matters since the public doesn't care anymore.
EPA emissions testing are not only measured at idle but while driving as well, IIRC it's been that way for decades. So you're trying to compare apples to oranges. IN MD there used to be dyno's in the state emissions testing centers, where the car's emissions would be measured over a range of engine load. Even before the dyno's they would rev the engine across a range (which was sorta useless from what I've read). AFAIK, the testing the ICCT did was apples to apples in terms of when and where the EPA test measurements were taken. ICCT received a mobile emissions testing setup and used that for their 2k mile testing of the VW and BMW diesels

VW?S DIESEL SCAM | Simanaitis Says

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Old 10-09-2015, 01:22 PM
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:16 PM
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:28 AM
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Texas sues VW over consumer protection, clean air violations

If these go through, it's pretty much game over.

Texas sues VW over consumer protection, clean air violations

Texas has filed two suits against Volkswagen, charging that the automaker's emissions rigging violated state consumer protection laws and clean air standards. The lawsuit is part of a probe into the German automaker's diesel scandal being undertaken by 45 states and the District of Columbia. There are also over 250 class action suits that have been filed in US federal courts.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said Thursday that his state would seek restitution for consumers, and an injunction and civil penalties to prohibit future violations. Paxton, who himself has been indicted for securities fraud, said in a statement, "When companies willfully violate the public's trust, a penalty must be paid." Paxton said Texans purchased around 32,000 affected vehicles. There are about 49 authorized VW dealerships statewide. The Texas suit is asking for pollution fines of somewhere between $50 and $25,000 per vehicle (quite a spread, we know) for each day the vehicles were in use in the state.

Volkswagen admitted in the middle of September that it installed devices designed to defeat government emissions tests on many Volkswagen and Audi diesel cars dating to model year 2009. Globally, 11 million VW group vehicles are affected. The automaker declined to comment to Bloomberg on the Texas lawsuit.

Last month, Harris County, which includes Houston, filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit against VW, alleging the automaker contributed to air quality problems. You can find PDFs of the two state lawsuits here (the deceptive-practices case) and here (the environmental case).
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Old 10-10-2015, 01:19 PM
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Fact Sheet: Light-duty diesel in-use tests

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Old 10-11-2015, 02:17 PM
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I knew that German built unreliable crap but it didnot realized they do cheating on such large scale. the financial shock is such that Germany will be forced to lift sanctions on Russia. and cut down investments in VW group various divisions.

2012 750i only 27k miles. Asking $42k.
Used 2012 BMW 750i For Sale in Colma CA | Stock: BCDX01486 | San Francisco Bay Area


this $100k car. in three years $60k depreciation with such low mileage. alot of financial engineering.
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Old 10-11-2015, 02:22 PM
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Have you looked at the 2014 RLX prices?
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Old 10-11-2015, 02:30 PM
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yes. the lowest in my area RLX tech package is $28k with 57k miles. i am sure there will be lower outthere but at most $50k car is sold for $25k. thats $25k depreciation. with engine/transmission shared with other Honda products.
V8 BMW are rarity. It cost alot to develop V8 engine for low volumes. BMW simply dont have Toyota kind V8 market with its global SUV dominance.
Just GX460 alone sales 2k units a month in US.
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Old 10-11-2015, 02:38 PM
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You showed a "100k car" is being sold for 42k. A 58% drop in price over 3 years.

You also just admitted that the RLX has dropped 50% in just over 1 year.

Thanks.
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