Toyota: Development and Technology News
Makes you wonder about the demand for the Model S -- I also have yet to see a single new Model S on the road here, and we are absolutely covered in EVs (esp Teslas) here. I've seen a ton more Taycans and even the unicorn RAV4 Primes. And if you look at Tesla's own inventory system, they have quite a number of Plaids available right away in stock throughout the whole continent.
I see a few MS around here, but don't know that I could tell the difference between a newer/older one.
Tons of M3 around here, probably the most common EV I see, apart from those that are less obvious on the road (e-tron models)
Tons of M3 around here, probably the most common EV I see, apart from those that are less obvious on the road (e-tron models)
That 7k number probably includes the pre-refresh Model S and X that mysteriously showed up as delivered in Q1 (and part of Q2 likely) even though the S/X hadn't been in production for months AFAIK, there were 2-3k of them, and Tesla combines S/X deliveries in their reports.
Makes you wonder about the demand for the Model S -- I also have yet to see a single new Model S on the road here, and we are absolutely covered in EVs (esp Teslas) here. I've seen a ton more Taycans and even the unicorn RAV4 Primes. And if you look at Tesla's own inventory system, they have quite a number of Plaids available right away in stock throughout the whole continent.
Makes you wonder about the demand for the Model S -- I also have yet to see a single new Model S on the road here, and we are absolutely covered in EVs (esp Teslas) here. I've seen a ton more Taycans and even the unicorn RAV4 Primes. And if you look at Tesla's own inventory system, they have quite a number of Plaids available right away in stock throughout the whole continent.
I guess BMW and Mercedes should combined their S class/7 series and with GLS/X7 sales #s. 
But that would give Tesla too much credit.. Comfy would think BMW/Mercedes are too worried

I see a number of the older MS around here still - Easiest indication would be the chrome trim, and the model designation at the back (P70D, P85D, P100D; which no longer exist on the newer models). A few of them do drive around with the sunroof open; which Tesla annoyingly took out after the refresh.
There are tons of barely used Tesla in SF bayarea that people want to sell. Seem people dont want to keep the cars long term but for quick buck turn. It is more like meme stock.
. I havent seen this situation on this scale with any other brand.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto...420404170.html
They have to decrease the price.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ctd...420683343.html

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto...419799308.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto...419592191.html
. I havent seen this situation on this scale with any other brand.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto...420404170.html
2021 Tesla Model X Long Range Plus w/ Full Self-Driving - $114,900 (redwood city)
They have to decrease the price.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ctd...420683343.html
2021 Tesla Model Y Performance AWD stk# 21219 JC - $78,995 (corte madera)

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto...419799308.html
2021 Tesla Model Y - $68,000 (novato)
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto...419592191.html
2022 Tesla model Y Long Range - $69,000 (turlock ca)
So as you guys say EV tech is so much easier and simpler than making ICE and the legacy could put that together in a weekend, why aren’t they crushing Tesla in sales…? Just because of superchargers …..????
Me thinks they are too late to the party. LOL.
Me thinks they are too late to the party. LOL.
The other brands like Toyota built quality cars that stood test of time Globally. Not related to one market.
Musk mobiles have difficulty entering smaller markets and that not have mild weather.
Toyota has the deep pockets and quality to gain market. BZ4X standard rim is 18inch. so it has solid foundation of competent vehicle.
You want Chinese crap Model Y or overpriced Berlin made Model Y. pick your poison.
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/12/20...040-in-the-uk/
Musk mobiles have difficulty entering smaller markets and that not have mild weather.
Toyota has the deep pockets and quality to gain market. BZ4X standard rim is 18inch. so it has solid foundation of competent vehicle.
You want Chinese crap Model Y or overpriced Berlin made Model Y. pick your poison.
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/12/20...040-in-the-uk/
2022 Toyota bZ4X Undercuts Tesla Model Y By £13,040 In The UK
Just look for the yoke. 
I see a number of the older MS around here still - Easiest indication would be the chrome trim, and the model designation at the back (P70D, P85D, P100D; which no longer exist on the newer models). A few of them do drive around with the sunroof open; which Tesla annoyingly took out after the refresh.

I see a number of the older MS around here still - Easiest indication would be the chrome trim, and the model designation at the back (P70D, P85D, P100D; which no longer exist on the newer models). A few of them do drive around with the sunroof open; which Tesla annoyingly took out after the refresh.
Tesla is losing market share champ, it's in the hard data. Superchargers is a big reason people buy Tesla, another is the badge recognition. Once MB, BMW, and Audi bring out their mass market EV's then it'll be a case of good bye Mr. Bond.
The legacy auto makers have already made significant gains within the last 2-3 years... There wasn't any 2-3 years ago and look at them now...
Almost every single EV out there are looking better than Tesla... it is just the supercharger stations are very attractive on their own Since Tesla had many many years head start on charging stations. , which has NOHTING to do with how good or bad Tesla cars are.
Once Everyone else figures out a way on the charging situation, then Tesla has no more competitive advantage, only disadvantages left.
They will still be around but they are just gonna be 1 of the many players in the market. No longer the monopoly.
Almost every single EV out there are looking better than Tesla... it is just the supercharger stations are very attractive on their own Since Tesla had many many years head start on charging stations. , which has NOHTING to do with how good or bad Tesla cars are.
Once Everyone else figures out a way on the charging situation, then Tesla has no more competitive advantage, only disadvantages left.
They will still be around but they are just gonna be 1 of the many players in the market. No longer the monopoly.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Dec 16, 2021 at 06:30 PM.
If what you say is true we should all be driving Fords and Fords only.
Tesla fanbois can't tell the difference between CGI (no doubt, it was a bad copy/paste job) and the Real thing (tm)?
The Lexus RZ is scheduled to be released by the end of next year. I would trust Toyota's release dates and expect to see them on the road well before any of Tesla's pipe dreams (CT for example).
The Lexus RZ is scheduled to be released by the end of next year. I would trust Toyota's release dates and expect to see them on the road well before any of Tesla's pipe dreams (CT for example).
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Aut...h-Tesla-and-VW
Toyota to launch own operating system, vying with Tesla and VW
January 4, 2022
TOKYO/NAGOYA, Japan -- Toyota Motor plans to develop its own automotive software platform by 2025 that handles everything from basic functions to advanced applications like autonomous driving, Nikkei has learned.
With the Arene operating system, the Japanese automaker will join rivals such as Tesla and Volkswagen, as well as tech companies, in the competition to set the standards for the software powering the next generation of vehicles.
Toyota aims to put Arene in its own vehicles by 2025. After that the automaker will make the software available to affiliates including Subaru, along with other manufacturers and startups working on electric or self-driving vehicles. The company is considering monetizing the system through a licensing model.
Arene will control basic components -- the steering wheel, brakes and accelerator, for example -- and manage safety systems as well as location and traffic information. All vehicles with the OS, regardless of make or model, will have access to shared functions. Consumers can update the system online, much like smartphone software, enabling quick improvements to performance.
Engineers will be able to develop for the OS without waiting for new hardware, and cloud integration will let various teams within a corporate group work in parallel and remotely. The system is intended to allow for simulation and virtual testing as well.
Toyota will open Arene to other developers, encouraging companies from outside the industry to create applications for autonomous driving and other functions. The automaker envisions services from a variety of businesses being added to a car as easily as downloading smartphone apps.
The automaker anticipates that Arene will become a more effective platform as more users and developers join, generating more data that can be used to create new services.
Toyota faces competition in the field from Volkswagen, which is working on its "vw.os" operating system, and Daimler, which plans to roll out the MB.OS in its own vehicles in 2024.
General Motors, too, is developing an OS that can be updated instantly via the internet, poring $35 billion by 2025.
Tesla is developing software and systems toward its goal of fully self-driving vehicles, and, like Toyota, it aims to market to other companies as well. Tech companies like Apple -- which is rumored to be working on an autonomous vehicle -- and Google seek to bring the business models that succeeded in smartphones to the auto industry.
The competition to add value to vehicles has been shifting from hardware, such as conventional engines and gears, to the software controlling it. U.S.-based Lux Research predicts that electronics and software will account for 50% of a vehicle's cost in 2030, up from 20% in 2000.
Toyota looks to lift the share of software specialists in its hires of fresh engineering graduates to between 40% and 50% this spring from about 20% previously. Though the company has not said how much it will invest in software development, the automaker looks set to tilt more in that direction, with plans for 18,000 personnel in the field groupwide.
January 4, 2022
TOKYO/NAGOYA, Japan -- Toyota Motor plans to develop its own automotive software platform by 2025 that handles everything from basic functions to advanced applications like autonomous driving, Nikkei has learned.
With the Arene operating system, the Japanese automaker will join rivals such as Tesla and Volkswagen, as well as tech companies, in the competition to set the standards for the software powering the next generation of vehicles.
Toyota aims to put Arene in its own vehicles by 2025. After that the automaker will make the software available to affiliates including Subaru, along with other manufacturers and startups working on electric or self-driving vehicles. The company is considering monetizing the system through a licensing model.
Arene will control basic components -- the steering wheel, brakes and accelerator, for example -- and manage safety systems as well as location and traffic information. All vehicles with the OS, regardless of make or model, will have access to shared functions. Consumers can update the system online, much like smartphone software, enabling quick improvements to performance.
Engineers will be able to develop for the OS without waiting for new hardware, and cloud integration will let various teams within a corporate group work in parallel and remotely. The system is intended to allow for simulation and virtual testing as well.
Toyota will open Arene to other developers, encouraging companies from outside the industry to create applications for autonomous driving and other functions. The automaker envisions services from a variety of businesses being added to a car as easily as downloading smartphone apps.
The automaker anticipates that Arene will become a more effective platform as more users and developers join, generating more data that can be used to create new services.
Toyota faces competition in the field from Volkswagen, which is working on its "vw.os" operating system, and Daimler, which plans to roll out the MB.OS in its own vehicles in 2024.
General Motors, too, is developing an OS that can be updated instantly via the internet, poring $35 billion by 2025.
Tesla is developing software and systems toward its goal of fully self-driving vehicles, and, like Toyota, it aims to market to other companies as well. Tech companies like Apple -- which is rumored to be working on an autonomous vehicle -- and Google seek to bring the business models that succeeded in smartphones to the auto industry.
The competition to add value to vehicles has been shifting from hardware, such as conventional engines and gears, to the software controlling it. U.S.-based Lux Research predicts that electronics and software will account for 50% of a vehicle's cost in 2030, up from 20% in 2000.
Toyota looks to lift the share of software specialists in its hires of fresh engineering graduates to between 40% and 50% this spring from about 20% previously. Though the company has not said how much it will invest in software development, the automaker looks set to tilt more in that direction, with plans for 18,000 personnel in the field groupwide.
Always cool to watch these manufacturing video's.. Kinda surprised they're still some human deburring of the aluminum castings. That localized induction heat treating of the crank journals is pretty trick.
Capable of providing quicker charging and a considerably longer range, solid-state batteries are considered to be the next breakthrough in the development of electric vehicles. Toyota is one of the many companies investing in solid-state batteries. However, the firm's electrification strategy and powertrain boss, Thiebault Pâquet, told Autocar last December the technology will make its debut on a hybrid rather than a pure EV.
Speaking with Autoline during CES 2022, the company's chief scientist and head of the Toyota Research Institute, Gill Pratt, reiterated the first Toyota with a solid-state battery will still have an internal combustion engine. He went on to say development is progressing on schedule and the first car to do away with lithium-ion batteries will arrive in the first half of the decade. Well, since it's already January 2022, it means the vehicle in question is going to hit the market in three years or perhaps even sooner than that.
But why is Toyota prioritizing hybrids to the detriment of EVs? Gill Pratt admits it seems "a little bit unintuitive" at a first glance, but his explanation makes perfect sense. With the current crop of electric cars still carrying a substantial premium over their gasoline equivalents, fitting an EV with solid-state batteries would render the vehicle even more expensive. Costs are likely to come down between now and 2025, but not enough to make an ICE-less car with solid-state batteries feasible.
For this reason, Toyota will be applying the promising tech to hybrids first since the batteries will be smaller and therefore won't have such a big impact on the asking price. The company also sees hybrids as somewhat of a testbed for solid-state batteries since Gill Pratt explains the charging and discharging cycles are more pronounced. Hybrids will represent a "tougher test" for these next-gen batteries, which will eventually be installed in EVs once products costs will go down enough.
Eventually, solid-state batteries will be installed in performance cars as well. Toyota, through its luxury division Lexus, unveiled last month the Electrified Sport taking the shape of a low-slung electric coupe. Featuring the "secret sauce" that made the V10-powered LFA so great, the concept had enough juice for 435 miles (700 kilometers) of range. The speedy two-seater machine did 0 to 62 mph (100 km/h) in the low two-second range.
Speaking with Autoline during CES 2022, the company's chief scientist and head of the Toyota Research Institute, Gill Pratt, reiterated the first Toyota with a solid-state battery will still have an internal combustion engine. He went on to say development is progressing on schedule and the first car to do away with lithium-ion batteries will arrive in the first half of the decade. Well, since it's already January 2022, it means the vehicle in question is going to hit the market in three years or perhaps even sooner than that.
But why is Toyota prioritizing hybrids to the detriment of EVs? Gill Pratt admits it seems "a little bit unintuitive" at a first glance, but his explanation makes perfect sense. With the current crop of electric cars still carrying a substantial premium over their gasoline equivalents, fitting an EV with solid-state batteries would render the vehicle even more expensive. Costs are likely to come down between now and 2025, but not enough to make an ICE-less car with solid-state batteries feasible.
For this reason, Toyota will be applying the promising tech to hybrids first since the batteries will be smaller and therefore won't have such a big impact on the asking price. The company also sees hybrids as somewhat of a testbed for solid-state batteries since Gill Pratt explains the charging and discharging cycles are more pronounced. Hybrids will represent a "tougher test" for these next-gen batteries, which will eventually be installed in EVs once products costs will go down enough.
Eventually, solid-state batteries will be installed in performance cars as well. Toyota, through its luxury division Lexus, unveiled last month the Electrified Sport taking the shape of a low-slung electric coupe. Featuring the "secret sauce" that made the V10-powered LFA so great, the concept had enough juice for 435 miles (700 kilometers) of range. The speedy two-seater machine did 0 to 62 mph (100 km/h) in the low two-second range.
The future of Toyota EVs is going to be very exciting. Besides the developments in performance, range, and efficiency Toyota’s EV future may include something from the past. Based on a recent patent filing by Toyota, a clutch-operated manual transmission may be on the future option list for your next Toyota. So how exactly does a manual transmission work in an EV? Let’s find out.
In today’s EV market transmissions are basically non-existent. In Tesla products, there is no shifting and only a 1-speed transmission. Then Porsche and Audi use 2-speed transmissions for better response at higher speeds for better performance on the German Autobahn. But outside of these two EV heavyweights transmissions don’t really have a place in modern EVs.
Toyota plans to change all of this. In their patent filing, Toyota basically created a traditional clutch-activated manual transmission with a familiar shift lever as you’d find on a GR86. In Toyota’s patent filing they explain, “The controller of the electric vehicle is configured to control the torque of the electric motor using the MT vehicle model based on the operation amount of the accelerator pedal, the operation amount of the pseudo-clutch pedal, and the shift position of the pseudo-shifter.”
The word pseudo is an interesting inclusion since it implies that this entire transmission is all for fun and not required for the operation of the vehicle. To improve the feel of this innovative system Toyota will add, “The electric vehicle also includes a shift reaction force generator that generates a shift reaction force in response to the operation of the pseudo-shifter using by the operating of the reaction force actuator.”
This means Toyota EVs could have a simulated manual transmission that includes movement that you’d find in a connect manual in a sports car. The commitment to retaining fun in the EV future makes us excited to see what Toyota has in store for us
In today’s EV market transmissions are basically non-existent. In Tesla products, there is no shifting and only a 1-speed transmission. Then Porsche and Audi use 2-speed transmissions for better response at higher speeds for better performance on the German Autobahn. But outside of these two EV heavyweights transmissions don’t really have a place in modern EVs.
Toyota plans to change all of this. In their patent filing, Toyota basically created a traditional clutch-activated manual transmission with a familiar shift lever as you’d find on a GR86. In Toyota’s patent filing they explain, “The controller of the electric vehicle is configured to control the torque of the electric motor using the MT vehicle model based on the operation amount of the accelerator pedal, the operation amount of the pseudo-clutch pedal, and the shift position of the pseudo-shifter.”
The word pseudo is an interesting inclusion since it implies that this entire transmission is all for fun and not required for the operation of the vehicle. To improve the feel of this innovative system Toyota will add, “The electric vehicle also includes a shift reaction force generator that generates a shift reaction force in response to the operation of the pseudo-shifter using by the operating of the reaction force actuator.”
This means Toyota EVs could have a simulated manual transmission that includes movement that you’d find in a connect manual in a sports car. The commitment to retaining fun in the EV future makes us excited to see what Toyota has in store for us
Why is it those things?
The guy whined about a few things that amount to buyer preference not systemic issues. He had some good things to say about many aspects. Power and range while not "class leading" are on par, and whether it's a value or not will depend on the pricing which was unknown.
The guy whined about a few things that amount to buyer preference not systemic issues. He had some good things to say about many aspects. Power and range while not "class leading" are on par, and whether it's a value or not will depend on the pricing which was unknown.
This is what I don't like about a lot of EV reviews or even many folks opinion on EVs - that somehow if the EV doesn't go 0-60 in 3 seconds something is wrong and the car's not worth a damn. I gave up a long time ago caring about that statistic because it never comes into play. What I do care about is being able to be safe on a highway going 70 mph and passing slower traffic or maintaining the speeds of those around me. And while you need a bit of juice to do that you don't need a 3 second 0-60 time.
I think "inspiring" to a lot of these reviewers means that - how fast is it off the line. Maybe, just maybe, a few of them will consider how the car handles. But looking at most of these EV comparisons on YouTube, almost all of them are drag races.
If EVs are going to ever be popular they will need their share of efficient people-movers and not track stars.
I think "inspiring" to a lot of these reviewers means that - how fast is it off the line. Maybe, just maybe, a few of them will consider how the car handles. But looking at most of these EV comparisons on YouTube, almost all of them are drag races.
If EVs are going to ever be popular they will need their share of efficient people-movers and not track stars.
I have yet driven a full EV that i felt was slow... even the i3 was plenty fast for almost everyone.
So all these 0-60 in less than 3 secs shit is useless in the real world... Most of the EVs i have encountered actually drive slower than ICE cars on the freeway...
I could average about 35-38 mpg cruising at 85-90mph. Not sure what kind of empg EV could get at the same speed.. but I think the efficiency suffers dramatically when compare to ICE cars at those speed.
IMO, focusing on those efficiency issues is a lot more relevant than 0-60 in 3 secs.
So all these 0-60 in less than 3 secs shit is useless in the real world... Most of the EVs i have encountered actually drive slower than ICE cars on the freeway...
I could average about 35-38 mpg cruising at 85-90mph. Not sure what kind of empg EV could get at the same speed.. but I think the efficiency suffers dramatically when compare to ICE cars at those speed.
IMO, focusing on those efficiency issues is a lot more relevant than 0-60 in 3 secs.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Feb 14, 2022 at 01:41 PM.
I have yet driven a full EV that i felt was slow... even the i3 was plenty fast for almost everyone.
So all these 0-60 in less than 3 secs shit is useless in the real world... Most of the EVs i have encountered actually drive slower than ICE cars on the freeway...
I could average about 35-38 mpg cruising at 85-90mph. Not sure what kind of empg EV could get at the same speed.. but I think the efficiency suffers dramatically when compare to ICE cars at those speed.
IMO, focusing on those efficiency issues is a lot more relevant than 0-60 in 3 secs.
So all these 0-60 in less than 3 secs shit is useless in the real world... Most of the EVs i have encountered actually drive slower than ICE cars on the freeway...
I could average about 35-38 mpg cruising at 85-90mph. Not sure what kind of empg EV could get at the same speed.. but I think the efficiency suffers dramatically when compare to ICE cars at those speed.
IMO, focusing on those efficiency issues is a lot more relevant than 0-60 in 3 secs.
Cruising at that speed will fuck your range so fast. The issue is that EV's don't have a gearbox so the only way to get them to go faster is to spin the motors faster which consumes a ton of energy. This is why the Taycan has a two speed gearbox and others should as well. It'll help efficiency at speed.
That said, I don't think I've ever cruised at that speed anywhere in any car other than the couple times I was in Germany so whatever. Doing that around here will get you in jail pretty fast. Cruising at 90mph is not a real use case just as much as a 3s 0-60 isn't one.
Also, that 3s 0-60 came in handy a couple days ago when some flat brim hat douche in an Altima (??????) tried to take me off the line.
Inspiring is a feeling, not a tangible measurable quantity. Having a car that will blow your socks off gives you a pretty cool feeling and might therefore be seen as inspiring.
Cruising at that speed will fuck your range so fast. The issue is that EV's don't have a gearbox so the only way to get them to go faster is to spin the motors faster which consumes a ton of energy. This is why the Taycan has a two speed gearbox and others should as well. It'll help efficiency at speed.
That said, I don't think I've ever cruised at that speed anywhere in any car other than the couple times I was in Germany so whatever. Doing that around here will get you in jail pretty fast. Cruising at 90mph is not a real use case just as much as a 3s 0-60 isn't one.
Also, that 3s 0-60 came in handy a couple days ago when some flat brim hat douche in an Altima (??????) tried to take me off the line.
Cruising at that speed will fuck your range so fast. The issue is that EV's don't have a gearbox so the only way to get them to go faster is to spin the motors faster which consumes a ton of energy. This is why the Taycan has a two speed gearbox and others should as well. It'll help efficiency at speed.
That said, I don't think I've ever cruised at that speed anywhere in any car other than the couple times I was in Germany so whatever. Doing that around here will get you in jail pretty fast. Cruising at 90mph is not a real use case just as much as a 3s 0-60 isn't one.
Also, that 3s 0-60 came in handy a couple days ago when some flat brim hat douche in an Altima (??????) tried to take me off the line.
I average about 20-22 mpg mixed city/hwy normally and i could almost double that when going to Vegas when the traffic is not so crazy and i was not even trying to be efficient.
Any EV would take an Altima offline.. literally any EV... it does not need 0-60 in 3s to do that.
With the way i drive, i probably need to charge twice in a Tesla to get to Vegas

Last edited by oonowindoo; Feb 14, 2022 at 04:07 PM.
Oh if you go to Vegas as often as me, to average 70mph requires about 90mph+ for probably more than half of the 250 miles.
I average about 20-22 mpg mixed city/hwy normally and i could almost double that when going to Vegas when the traffic is not so crazy and i was not even trying to be efficient.
Any EV would take an Altima offline.. literally any EV... it does not need 0-60 in 3s to do that.
With the way i drive, i probably need to charge twice in a Tesla to get to Vegas
I average about 20-22 mpg mixed city/hwy normally and i could almost double that when going to Vegas when the traffic is not so crazy and i was not even trying to be efficient.
Any EV would take an Altima offline.. literally any EV... it does not need 0-60 in 3s to do that.
With the way i drive, i probably need to charge twice in a Tesla to get to Vegas

There are a variety of cars with several options for what kind of motive power they use that could beat an Altima. You can probably beat one with a Toyota Venza. I'm not really sure why this idiot tried but he didn't get too far.
Oh yah it seems people are driving faster and faster here in so Cal.
This past weekend i was driving back from San Diego and at 90mph i could only keep up with the traffic... even Corolla and Camry were passing me going faster
This past weekend i was driving back from San Diego and at 90mph i could only keep up with the traffic... even Corolla and Camry were passing me going faster
You could get from LA to Vegas with one stop to charge even if you drive like an idiot. It wouldn't really be that hard especially considering the relatively mild weather in that part of the world. You don't NEED to go that fast, you just want to. It's not really a major product requirement for it to be able to sustain 90mph for any real amount of time and still keep the rated range since that's just not a plausible use case for the vast majority of who's buying any of these...or really any car for that matter.
There are a variety of cars with several options for what kind of motive power they use that could beat an Altima. You can probably beat one with a Toyota Venza. I'm not really sure why this idiot tried but he didn't get too far.
There are a variety of cars with several options for what kind of motive power they use that could beat an Altima. You can probably beat one with a Toyota Venza. I'm not really sure why this idiot tried but he didn't get too far.
That goes back to the reviewer who is saying Toyota's EV is uninspiring, unless he also thinks Tesla is uninspiring, otherwise it was pretty biased review. Almost like if we asked the comfortable ones to review other EVs, i would think the conclusion would be very similar.
Also i would not call any car uninspiring EV or ICE if they can do 0-60 in 4s 5s .....Aside from the few trims from Tesla, vast majority of Model 3, Y and X are in 4 or 5 secs range.
With this Toyota, its focus is clearly not the max range or fast acceleration, but affordability. Something Tesla failed to provide.. A everyday SUV EV for everyone at 37k
Last edited by oonowindoo; Feb 14, 2022 at 04:25 PM.
Hey,, driving fast is not the same as driving like an idiot.
That goes back to the reviewer who is saying Toyota's EV is uninspiring, unless he also thinks Tesla is uninspiring, otherwise it was pretty biased review. Almost like if we asked the comfortable ones to review other EVs, i would think the conclusion would be very similar.
Also i would not call any car uninspiring EV or ICE if they can do 0-60 in 4s 5s .....Aside from the few trims from Tesla, vast majority of Model 3, Y and X are in 4 or 5 secs range.
With this Toyota, its focus is clearly not the max range or fast acceleration, but affordability. Something Tesla failed to provide.. A everyday SUV EV for everyone at 37k
That goes back to the reviewer who is saying Toyota's EV is uninspiring, unless he also thinks Tesla is uninspiring, otherwise it was pretty biased review. Almost like if we asked the comfortable ones to review other EVs, i would think the conclusion would be very similar.
Also i would not call any car uninspiring EV or ICE if they can do 0-60 in 4s 5s .....Aside from the few trims from Tesla, vast majority of Model 3, Y and X are in 4 or 5 secs range.
With this Toyota, its focus is clearly not the max range or fast acceleration, but affordability. Something Tesla failed to provide.. A everyday SUV EV for everyone at 37k

The biggest problem in a reviewer using such a subjective term is that it only means something to the individual saying it. What's "inspiring" is in the eye of the beholder. I guarantee you some folks think their F350 with enough torque to pull down a building is "inspiring" to them. I knew Prius owners who got all kinds of excited about hypermiling - to them them that was "inspiring". Being inspired by a car just means it's really good at something you place a lot of value in. It's a meaningless descriptor outside of that context and it's very bad form for a reviewer to use that descriptor without defining what they mean by it.
It is very similar to this
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/2022-te...2-toyota-bz4x/
Yah Model Y is better in EVERY single way....
At the end, it tells you oh by the way it is also $20k more... well no shit... that is like saying X3 M40i is better and faster than a 1.5T CRV Touring...
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/2022-te...2-toyota-bz4x/
Yah Model Y is better in EVERY single way....
At the end, it tells you oh by the way it is also $20k more... well no shit... that is like saying X3 M40i is better and faster than a 1.5T CRV Touring...
However, considering all the advantages that the 2022 Tesla Model Y has over the 2022 Toyota bZ4X, the extra cost is worth it — if you can afford it. As you can see, the Model Y crushes the bZ4X in a plethora of ways, including performance, range, acceleration, and technologies.

Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.
This is the kind of thing that pisses me off. 
Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.

Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.

This is the kind of thing that pisses me off. 
Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.

Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.

Hey,, driving fast is not the same as driving like an idiot.
That goes back to the reviewer who is saying Toyota's EV is uninspiring, unless he also thinks Tesla is uninspiring, otherwise it was pretty biased review. Almost like if we asked the comfortable ones to review other EVs, i would think the conclusion would be very similar.
Also i would not call any car uninspiring EV or ICE if they can do 0-60 in 4s 5s .....Aside from the few trims from Tesla, vast majority of Model 3, Y and X are in 4 or 5 secs range.
With this Toyota, its focus is clearly not the max range or fast acceleration, but affordability. Something Tesla failed to provide.. A everyday SUV EV for everyone at 37k
That goes back to the reviewer who is saying Toyota's EV is uninspiring, unless he also thinks Tesla is uninspiring, otherwise it was pretty biased review. Almost like if we asked the comfortable ones to review other EVs, i would think the conclusion would be very similar.
Also i would not call any car uninspiring EV or ICE if they can do 0-60 in 4s 5s .....Aside from the few trims from Tesla, vast majority of Model 3, Y and X are in 4 or 5 secs range.
With this Toyota, its focus is clearly not the max range or fast acceleration, but affordability. Something Tesla failed to provide.. A everyday SUV EV for everyone at 37k
Also, driving at 90mph around here will get you thrown in jail pretty fast. Traffic is fast but not that fast. Our speed limits are 60 in the city and 70 outside of the city. People will do 65-70 in the city and 70-75 outside of the city. Maybe a few going faster than that but it's not common. Last road trip I did in the Tesla I had the cruise pegged at 77mph for the entire trip and it did just fine. There was little to no traffic so aside from stopping once to pee, eat, charge the car was going at that speed the whole time for the ~300 mile drive each way.
You make a good point in here - at least how I'm interpreting it. 
The biggest problem in a reviewer using such a subjective term is that it only means something to the individual saying it. What's "inspiring" is in the eye of the beholder. I guarantee you some folks think their F350 with enough torque to pull down a building is "inspiring" to them. I knew Prius owners who got all kinds of excited about hypermiling - to them them that was "inspiring". Being inspired by a car just means it's really good at something you place a lot of value in. It's a meaningless descriptor outside of that context and it's very bad form for a reviewer to use that descriptor without defining what they mean by it.

The biggest problem in a reviewer using such a subjective term is that it only means something to the individual saying it. What's "inspiring" is in the eye of the beholder. I guarantee you some folks think their F350 with enough torque to pull down a building is "inspiring" to them. I knew Prius owners who got all kinds of excited about hypermiling - to them them that was "inspiring". Being inspired by a car just means it's really good at something you place a lot of value in. It's a meaningless descriptor outside of that context and it's very bad form for a reviewer to use that descriptor without defining what they mean by it.
This is the kind of thing that pisses me off. 
Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.

Why would anyone compare these 2 vehicles in the first place? They are clearly aimed at 2 different buyers. People who want to try to be an ev buyer but have a budget, vs people who think paying 20k more on a muskrat mobile is a badge of honor. Fucking ridiculous comparison.

Yes they are different cars, yes they are in different price brackets, no they should not be compared but unfortunately there isn't really much to compare this thing to. Tesla is, even though you hate it for reasons beyond my comprehension, the benchmark when it comes to EVs and every EV from here on out will be compared to a Tesla until there are enough other good options to compare to.
Here is an "inspiring" Toyota with an as tested price of $32k.... being compared to a benchmark handling car.
yeah I'll take either of these before ANY ev.
https://youtu.be/e-1fG3UYVWs
yeah I'll take either of these before ANY ev.
https://youtu.be/e-1fG3UYVWs














