Toyota: Development and Technology News
09-24-2021, 08:40 AM
#241
Ex-OEM King
There are plenty of automakers that have announced they are going full EV and it's not at all hurting current sales.
Toyota has more factories in one small country than Tesla has globally and the best manufacturing and supply chain people money can buy. I wouldn't worry about their ability to rapidly change out a plant to do something different.
They are not late to the transformation, the time is now and they are putting their hat in the ring. Tesla needs to do a hell of a lot more if they want to stay on top. More importantly, actually doing hardware improvements to their cars over time rather than once every decade. The biggest advantage Tesla has right now is the supercharger network. If that gets opened up to everyone, you can kiss that advantage goodbye.
Toyota has more factories in one small country than Tesla has globally and the best manufacturing and supply chain people money can buy. I wouldn't worry about their ability to rapidly change out a plant to do something different.
They are not late to the transformation, the time is now and they are putting their hat in the ring. Tesla needs to do a hell of a lot more if they want to stay on top. More importantly, actually doing hardware improvements to their cars over time rather than once every decade. The biggest advantage Tesla has right now is the supercharger network. If that gets opened up to everyone, you can kiss that advantage goodbye.
09-24-2021, 12:27 PM
#242
Sanest Florida Man
10-18-2021, 07:27 AM
#243
Toyota to build battery plant in USA
https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...-ev-production.
Toyota is planning to invest $3.4 billion over nine years. The factory is supposed to open in 2025 and will produce batteries only for hybrids. That’s a shocker.
Toyota is planning to invest $3.4 billion over nine years. The factory is supposed to open in 2025 and will produce batteries only for hybrids. That’s a shocker.
11-15-2021, 11:43 AM
#244
Toyota accelerates it’s suicide mission
https://insideevs.com/news/547809/toyota-team-japan/
Amid the refreshing news of Toyota releasing their first true BEV comes this one. Just shows how half hearted their BEV attempts are.
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Nov 14, 2021 at 5:38pm ET
54
By: Ben O'HareToyota’s continued resistance to BEVs is becoming more and more prevalent. Just days after refusing to sign a climate pledge aiming to phase out fossil-fuel vehicles by 2040, Toyota has organized a team to promote the combustion engine in the electric age. ‘Team Japan’ consists of Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. The group will work together on the development of greener fueling options as well as hydrogen tech.
The coalition will see the five companies develop carbon-neutral fuels for racing, meanwhile Toyota and Mazda will together develop a 1.5-liter Skyactiv-D engine powered by biodiesel. Subaru will work with Toyota for 2022’s Super Taikyu Series endurance season, with both companies collaborating to make a biomass-derived synthetic fuel. Furthermore, Yamaha and Kawasaki are considering working on a hydrogen engine for motorcycles.
Toyota clearly believes other solutions such as hydrogen will play their part in a sustainable future, an idea Tesla CEO Elon Musk has labelled “mind-bogglingly stupid” in the past. Despite all this, Toyota still intends to compete in the BEV space through the bz4xcrossover which will arrive in mid-2022.
Toyota released the following statement after the announcement of the coalition:
"By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice."
Greater choice? Perhaps, although only time will tell if the proposed alternatives are viable solutions. Toyota has seen limited success with the hydrogen-powered Mirai, with a lack of infrastructure and high running costs being key obstacles for consumers.
Amid the refreshing news of Toyota releasing their first true BEV comes this one. Just shows how half hearted their BEV attempts are.
*********************
Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ To Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive
Toyota has assembled a team consisting of themselves and four other Japanese marques in an effort to keep ICE vehicles relevant.
Nov 14, 2021 at 5:38pm ET
54
By: Ben O'HareToyota’s continued resistance to BEVs is becoming more and more prevalent. Just days after refusing to sign a climate pledge aiming to phase out fossil-fuel vehicles by 2040, Toyota has organized a team to promote the combustion engine in the electric age. ‘Team Japan’ consists of Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. The group will work together on the development of greener fueling options as well as hydrogen tech.
The coalition will see the five companies develop carbon-neutral fuels for racing, meanwhile Toyota and Mazda will together develop a 1.5-liter Skyactiv-D engine powered by biodiesel. Subaru will work with Toyota for 2022’s Super Taikyu Series endurance season, with both companies collaborating to make a biomass-derived synthetic fuel. Furthermore, Yamaha and Kawasaki are considering working on a hydrogen engine for motorcycles.
Toyota clearly believes other solutions such as hydrogen will play their part in a sustainable future, an idea Tesla CEO Elon Musk has labelled “mind-bogglingly stupid” in the past. Despite all this, Toyota still intends to compete in the BEV space through the bz4xcrossover which will arrive in mid-2022.
Toyota released the following statement after the announcement of the coalition:
"By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice."
Greater choice? Perhaps, although only time will tell if the proposed alternatives are viable solutions. Toyota has seen limited success with the hydrogen-powered Mirai, with a lack of infrastructure and high running costs being key obstacles for consumers.
Last edited by Comfy; 11-15-2021 at 11:45 AM.
11-15-2021, 11:46 AM
#245
Ex-OEM King
Toyota clearly believes other solutions such as hydrogen will play their part in a sustainable future, an idea Tesla CEO Elon Musk has labelled “mind-bogglingly stupid” in the past. Despite all this, Toyota still intends to compete in the BEV space through the bz4xcrossover which will arrive in mid-2022.
11-15-2021, 03:30 PM
#246
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
https://insideevs.com/news/547809/toyota-team-japan/
Amid the refreshing news of Toyota releasing their first true BEV comes this one. Just shows how half hearted their BEV attempts are.
*********************
Nov 14, 2021 at 5:38pm ET
54
By: Ben O'HareToyota’s continued resistance to BEVs is becoming more and more prevalent. Just days after refusing to sign a climate pledge aiming to phase out fossil-fuel vehicles by 2040, Toyota has organized a team to promote the combustion engine in the electric age. ‘Team Japan’ consists of Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. The group will work together on the development of greener fueling options as well as hydrogen tech.
The coalition will see the five companies develop carbon-neutral fuels for racing, meanwhile Toyota and Mazda will together develop a 1.5-liter Skyactiv-D engine powered by biodiesel. Subaru will work with Toyota for 2022’s Super Taikyu Series endurance season, with both companies collaborating to make a biomass-derived synthetic fuel. Furthermore, Yamaha and Kawasaki are considering working on a hydrogen engine for motorcycles.
Toyota clearly believes other solutions such as hydrogen will play their part in a sustainable future, an idea Tesla CEO Elon Musk has labelled “mind-bogglingly stupid” in the past. Despite all this, Toyota still intends to compete in the BEV space through the bz4xcrossover which will arrive in mid-2022.
Toyota released the following statement after the announcement of the coalition:
"By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice."
Greater choice? Perhaps, although only time will tell if the proposed alternatives are viable solutions. Toyota has seen limited success with the hydrogen-powered Mirai, with a lack of infrastructure and high running costs being key obstacles for consumers.
Amid the refreshing news of Toyota releasing their first true BEV comes this one. Just shows how half hearted their BEV attempts are.
*********************
Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ To Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive
Toyota has assembled a team consisting of themselves and four other Japanese marques in an effort to keep ICE vehicles relevant.
Nov 14, 2021 at 5:38pm ET
54
By: Ben O'HareToyota’s continued resistance to BEVs is becoming more and more prevalent. Just days after refusing to sign a climate pledge aiming to phase out fossil-fuel vehicles by 2040, Toyota has organized a team to promote the combustion engine in the electric age. ‘Team Japan’ consists of Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. The group will work together on the development of greener fueling options as well as hydrogen tech.
The coalition will see the five companies develop carbon-neutral fuels for racing, meanwhile Toyota and Mazda will together develop a 1.5-liter Skyactiv-D engine powered by biodiesel. Subaru will work with Toyota for 2022’s Super Taikyu Series endurance season, with both companies collaborating to make a biomass-derived synthetic fuel. Furthermore, Yamaha and Kawasaki are considering working on a hydrogen engine for motorcycles.
Toyota clearly believes other solutions such as hydrogen will play their part in a sustainable future, an idea Tesla CEO Elon Musk has labelled “mind-bogglingly stupid” in the past. Despite all this, Toyota still intends to compete in the BEV space through the bz4xcrossover which will arrive in mid-2022.
Toyota released the following statement after the announcement of the coalition:
"By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice."
Greater choice? Perhaps, although only time will tell if the proposed alternatives are viable solutions. Toyota has seen limited success with the hydrogen-powered Mirai, with a lack of infrastructure and high running costs being key obstacles for consumers.
So just because Toyota is thinking about those customers doesn't mean it's dead. Maybe it means they will be the provider of all the worlds transportation needs that can't do electric. Along with a strong portfolio of EVs.
Bizarre to me anyone thinks Toyota is a company full of fools.
11-16-2021, 09:02 AM
#247
Ex-OEM King
The power grids of first world countries need a lot of work to support the electrical demand of wide-spread EV use. You can't have transportation come to a standstill if the power goes out. Never mind the fact that long-haul trucking and all the things that move goods round have no electrical future based on the technology we have. Add to that the woeful state of power grids in less developed nations who still need transportation, who's electric future is likely generation(s) away.
So just because Toyota is thinking about those customers doesn't mean it's dead. Maybe it means they will be the provider of all the worlds transportation needs that can't do electric. Along with a strong portfolio of EVs.
Bizarre to me anyone thinks Toyota is a company full of fools.
So just because Toyota is thinking about those customers doesn't mean it's dead. Maybe it means they will be the provider of all the worlds transportation needs that can't do electric. Along with a strong portfolio of EVs.
Bizarre to me anyone thinks Toyota is a company full of fools.
EV definitely requires infrastructure work which should be helped by the bill that just passed so thank you Brandon for that.
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Comfy (11-16-2021)
11-17-2021, 04:40 AM
#248
Toyota Tundra specifications are out. 4WD loaded vehicle 5400 lbs weight. 265 width tires on either 18inch or 20inch. This with 32 gallon tank and 17/22/19 EPA estimate.
The TRD Pro with hybrid battery weights 6100lbs. if Hybrid is just 20% more efficient. it will translate into 850 range.
The TRD Pro with hybrid battery weights 6100lbs. if Hybrid is just 20% more efficient. it will translate into 850 range.
12-07-2021, 06:41 AM
#249
Race Director
Toyota wants to produce its own lithium-ion cells in the U.S. It announced on December 7 that it would invest $1.29 billion to build the TBMNC, or Toyota Battery Manufacturing, North Carolina. When it starts operations by 2025, it will produce enough cells for 200,000 electrified vehicles per year in its Greensboro-Randolph Megasite plant.
22 photos
Green Car Reports asked what Toyota meant by “electrified vehicles,” and the company said that it meant hybrid vehicles. However, Toyota’s hybrids use nickel-metal hydride battery packs. The only “hybrids” with the lithium-ion cells are the PHEVs (plug-in hybrid electric vehicles), such as the Prius Prime and the RAV4 Prime. The latter has a very high demand in the U.S.
There are other aspects of the announcement that deserve attention. When TBMNC starts producing lithium-ion batteries, Toyota should already have released its solid-state cell technology. In other words, the new factory may already be prepared to make the new cells as much as the ones the company’s plug-in hybrids will need.
Getting enough cells for 200,000 electrified vehicles per year is just the beginning. The new lithium-ion cell factory can be expanded to produce cells for 1.2 million cars per year, with at least six production lines, each of them manufacturing batteries for 200,000 vehicles. Curiously, the company did not reveal how many GWh the factory will be able to produce. We just know it is part of a strategy to have a 200 GWh capacity per year by 2030.
The $1,29 billion investment in the factory is part of an investment of $3.4 billion Toyota disclosed in October 2018. The Japanese carmaker expects to create 1,750 new jobs with TBMNC, but it did not inform if this number would be the initial or the final one, with all six production lines already working. Considering the company is talking about the total, we’d bet on the last option.
The four more years to wait clearly indicate that the factory has bigger plans than just lithium-ion cells for PHEVs. If that were Toyota’s only goal, TBMNC could start its activities by 2023 or even earlier. This is an excellent reason to follow news about the new factory and Toyota’s solid-state cells with close attention. It will be strategically more relevant than the short announcement from Toyota makes it seem.
22 photos
Green Car Reports asked what Toyota meant by “electrified vehicles,” and the company said that it meant hybrid vehicles. However, Toyota’s hybrids use nickel-metal hydride battery packs. The only “hybrids” with the lithium-ion cells are the PHEVs (plug-in hybrid electric vehicles), such as the Prius Prime and the RAV4 Prime. The latter has a very high demand in the U.S.
There are other aspects of the announcement that deserve attention. When TBMNC starts producing lithium-ion batteries, Toyota should already have released its solid-state cell technology. In other words, the new factory may already be prepared to make the new cells as much as the ones the company’s plug-in hybrids will need.
Getting enough cells for 200,000 electrified vehicles per year is just the beginning. The new lithium-ion cell factory can be expanded to produce cells for 1.2 million cars per year, with at least six production lines, each of them manufacturing batteries for 200,000 vehicles. Curiously, the company did not reveal how many GWh the factory will be able to produce. We just know it is part of a strategy to have a 200 GWh capacity per year by 2030.
The $1,29 billion investment in the factory is part of an investment of $3.4 billion Toyota disclosed in October 2018. The Japanese carmaker expects to create 1,750 new jobs with TBMNC, but it did not inform if this number would be the initial or the final one, with all six production lines already working. Considering the company is talking about the total, we’d bet on the last option.
The four more years to wait clearly indicate that the factory has bigger plans than just lithium-ion cells for PHEVs. If that were Toyota’s only goal, TBMNC could start its activities by 2023 or even earlier. This is an excellent reason to follow news about the new factory and Toyota’s solid-state cells with close attention. It will be strategically more relevant than the short announcement from Toyota makes it seem.
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1Louder (12-07-2021)
12-14-2021, 07:11 AM
#250
Apparently Toyota realized the error of their ways and like everyone else, decided to reverse course. Now going full steam on electrification. The goals appear little modest but still in the right direction. 
12-14-2021, 08:52 AM
#251
Ex-OEM King
Tesla should be very worried now. If anyone can make reliable quality low cost EV's for the masses, it's a company like Toyota.
Also, launching 30 models in 8 years is modest? Tesla launched 4 models in 8 years. I'm sure Toyota isn't including other vehicle launches in that number either so it's likely to be double or triple that number.
Also, launching 30 models in 8 years is modest? Tesla launched 4 models in 8 years. I'm sure Toyota isn't including other vehicle launches in that number either so it's likely to be double or triple that number.
12-14-2021, 01:46 PM
#252
Team Owner
It is ROFL to me every time Comfy says how wrong others have been about EV.
The image of him pumping that fossil fuel into his RDX after said all that is just too funny. ...
The image of him pumping that fossil fuel into his RDX after said all that is just too funny. ...
12-14-2021, 01:56 PM
#253
Ex-OEM King
12-14-2021, 02:06 PM
#254
Team Owner
is the Scooter at least Electric tho? 
12-14-2021, 03:28 PM
#255
Ex-OEM King
12-14-2021, 05:00 PM
#256
Team Owner
Ohhh so he is that guy i saw on the freeway..
12-14-2021, 08:43 PM
#257
Tesla should be very worried now. If anyone can make reliable quality low cost EV's for the masses, it's a company like Toyota.
Also, launching 30 models in 8 years is modest? Tesla launched 4 models in 8 years. I'm sure Toyota isn't including other vehicle launches in that number either so it's likely to be double or triple that number.
Also, launching 30 models in 8 years is modest? Tesla launched 4 models in 8 years. I'm sure Toyota isn't including other vehicle launches in that number either so it's likely to be double or triple that number.
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts. Increasing the number of models means they simply increased the complexity and cost of building. That 30 models combined still won’t probably beat any one comparable model from Tesla.
.And there’s this issue of dealerships too. Join the party. LOL.
12-15-2021, 01:46 PM
#258
Team Owner
Why should Tesla be worried…? Toyota is the one who was worried and changed course 180 degrees after proclaiming multiple times in public that EVs are bad and wouldn’t work, and what not. …?
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts. Increasing the number of models means they simply increased the complexity and cost of building. That 30 models combined still won’t probably beat any one comparable model from Tesla..
And there’s this issue of dealerships too. Join the party. LOL.
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts. Increasing the number of models means they simply increased the complexity and cost of building. That 30 models combined still won’t probably beat any one comparable model from Tesla.
.And there’s this issue of dealerships too. Join the party. LOL.
Every potential issues you are describing might be an issue for Tesla, but not for Toyota. That is the difference between a company that actually sold around 10 millions cars year after year and Tesla that only sold less than 500k a year globally in 2020.
Yes if you didn't know.. Toyota has been selling TEN MILLION CARS EVERY YEAR!
12-15-2021, 02:40 PM
#259
Why should Tesla be worried…? Toyota is the one who was worried and changed course 180 degrees after proclaiming multiple times in public that EVs are bad and wouldn’t work, and what not. …?
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts.
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts.
Toyota says it will build record 800,000 vehicles in January
December 15, 2021
TOKYO -- Toyota said it plans to build 800,000 vehicles globally in January, a record for the month, as it ramps up production to make up for output lost to parts shortages.
"We will continue to maintain our production forecast of the 9-million-unit level" for the year to March 31, the company said in a press release on Wednesday.
The production plan for January represents an increase of 60,000 vehicles from a year earlier.
Toyota has been affected by a shortage of parts supplied by COVID-19 hit factories in Malaysia and Vietnam.
The company this week said those shortages are forcing it to halt some manufacturing in Japan in December, resulting in lost production of 14,000 cars for the month.
December 15, 2021
TOKYO -- Toyota said it plans to build 800,000 vehicles globally in January, a record for the month, as it ramps up production to make up for output lost to parts shortages.
"We will continue to maintain our production forecast of the 9-million-unit level" for the year to March 31, the company said in a press release on Wednesday.
The production plan for January represents an increase of 60,000 vehicles from a year earlier.
Toyota has been affected by a shortage of parts supplied by COVID-19 hit factories in Malaysia and Vietnam.
The company this week said those shortages are forcing it to halt some manufacturing in Japan in December, resulting in lost production of 14,000 cars for the month.
12-15-2021, 03:13 PM
#260
Team Owner
I dont think he has any idea just how much bigger and more advanced Toyota is when compare to Tesla. If Tesla had to produce 10 million cars a year right now, you will have to wait until 2040 to get yours.
12-15-2021, 04:57 PM
#261
Ex-OEM King
Why should Tesla be worried…? Toyota is the one who was worried and changed course 180 degrees after proclaiming multiple times in public that EVs are bad and wouldn’t work, and what not. …?
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts. Increasing the number of models means they simply increased the complexity and cost of building. That 30 models combined still won’t probably beat any one comparable model from Tesla..
And there’s this issue of dealerships too. Join the party. LOL.
It’s not the number of models that count, is the total number of vehicles produced that counts. Increasing the number of models means they simply increased the complexity and cost of building. That 30 models combined still won’t probably beat any one comparable model from Tesla.
.And there’s this issue of dealerships too. Join the party. LOL.
If there's any company that can make a reliable, scalable EV and then mass produce it quickly, consistently, and reliably...it's Toyota, not Tesla.
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nist7 (12-15-2021)
12-15-2021, 06:40 PM
#262
Team Owner
It is mind blowing... It can produce in 18 days of what Tesla produced and sold in one year. Not on the same level is an understatement. yet he thinks Toyota is worried
12-15-2021, 07:30 PM
#263
Ex-OEM King
12-15-2021, 09:03 PM
#264
Even with all those advantages it’s Toyota that had to change course, not Tesla.
Now that they have stopped their suicide dive, Toyota is planning to shrink to one third it’s current sales by 2030. Whoops.
Now that they have stopped their suicide dive, Toyota is planning to shrink to one third it’s current sales by 2030. Whoops.
12-16-2021, 08:51 AM
#265
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Right up until the point they play other teams who've been playing football for decades.
Tesla hasn't had to compete with anyone yet. In the next 2-4 years they are about to compete against some giants that have been at this much longer, have decades of learning under their belt, have robust supply chains and high capacity factories. The Toyota's of the world refresh their models every 4-5 years. Tesla hasn't refreshed a single model yet. Why is that? Because it's expensive, and it's hard to transition an production line from building one model to another. But they are going to be forced into doing that very soon.
Not saying Tesla is going to be crushed - I think they survive and make cars. But they will not dominate this market. Tesla isn't going to be the teacher - they are going to be the student. They are about to enter the NFL and find out what the real game is like.
12-16-2021, 09:40 AM
#266
My first Avatar....
Forget it, Louder. You're talking to comfy...he'll short circuit and revert to Tesla Uber alles mode.
He seems to ignore that his beloved has been 100% full-time R&D on EVs for, what, 14 years? "Legacy" has been part time for 4 years. He doesn't want to conceive of what could happen when the big bad "Legacy" monster really focuses its attention on EVs.
He seems to ignore that his beloved has been 100% full-time R&D on EVs for, what, 14 years? "Legacy" has been part time for 4 years. He doesn't want to conceive of what could happen when the big bad "Legacy" monster really focuses its attention on EVs.
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Comfy (12-16-2021)
12-16-2021, 10:05 AM
#267
Here's an analogy for you. A second and equal professional football league gets created that will be on par with the NFL. This new league only starts with two teams, who's ability is on par with an average college team. Those two teams spar with each other for a while. Then team Tesla joins the league, who puts together a real NFL-caliber team and whoops on the two college-grade teams for several years. In doing so, they fancy themselves the greatest team of all time and are unstoppable. Then it's decided the leagues are going to merge, and team Tesla is now going to be playing the other 32 NFL teams on an equal playing field. But team Tesla thinks that because they were the first in their league and they've been at it for a half dozen years they are going to the superbowl their first year in the league because they think they are the best at football.
Right up until the point they play other teams who've been playing football for decades.
Tesla hasn't had to compete with anyone yet. In the next 2-4 years they are about to compete against some giants that have been at this much longer, have decades of learning under their belt, have robust supply chains and high capacity factories. The Toyota's of the world refresh their models every 4-5 years. Tesla hasn't refreshed a single model yet. Why is that? Because it's expensive, and it's hard to transition an production line from building one model to another. But they are going to be forced into doing that very soon.
Not saying Tesla is going to be crushed - I think they survive and make cars. But they will not dominate this market. Tesla isn't going to be the teacher - they are going to be the student. They are about to enter the NFL and find out what the real game is like.
Right up until the point they play other teams who've been playing football for decades.
Tesla hasn't had to compete with anyone yet. In the next 2-4 years they are about to compete against some giants that have been at this much longer, have decades of learning under their belt, have robust supply chains and high capacity factories. The Toyota's of the world refresh their models every 4-5 years. Tesla hasn't refreshed a single model yet. Why is that? Because it's expensive, and it's hard to transition an production line from building one model to another. But they are going to be forced into doing that very soon.
Not saying Tesla is going to be crushed - I think they survive and make cars. But they will not dominate this market. Tesla isn't going to be the teacher - they are going to be the student. They are about to enter the NFL and find out what the real game is like.
And how did the NFL game turn out for SpaceX competitors…? Right they had to go back to school…. Correct…?
Now every legacy is going to school learning about EV technology, software, and manufacturing.
This is what is happening in reality, not your hypothetical future emerging Tesla killers.
12-16-2021, 10:07 AM
#268
Forget it, Louder. You're talking to comfy...he'll short circuit and revert to Tesla Uber alles mode.
He seems to ignore that his beloved has been 100% full-time R&D on EVs for, what, 14 years? "Legacy" has been part time for 4 years. He doesn't want to conceive of what could happen when the big bad "Legacy" monster really focuses its attention on EVs.
He seems to ignore that his beloved has been 100% full-time R&D on EVs for, what, 14 years? "Legacy" has been part time for 4 years. He doesn't want to conceive of what could happen when the big bad "Legacy" monster really focuses its attention on EVs.
We’re still awaiting the Tesla killer monsters. “The competition is coming”……. LOL.
12-16-2021, 10:26 AM
#269
My first Avatar....
You're so ignorant as to learning, it's as if you can't learn. 
BTW, no one said that your diety will be killed.
BTW, no one said that your diety will be killed.
12-16-2021, 10:33 AM
#270
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
This is the real analogy.
And how did the NFL game turn out for SpaceX competitors…? Right they had to go back to school…. Correct…?
Now every legacy is going to school learning about EV technology, software, and manufacturing.
This is what is happening in reality, not your hypothetical future emerging Tesla killers.
And how did the NFL game turn out for SpaceX competitors…? Right they had to go back to school…. Correct…?
Now every legacy is going to school learning about EV technology, software, and manufacturing.
This is what is happening in reality, not your hypothetical future emerging Tesla killers.
Tesla had to figure out both EV technology AND manufacturing. And the latter is an enormous problem. Legacy auto makers already have that figured out - they just need to address EV technology. They are not starting in the same spot that Tesla was. They just need to merge EV technology into an existing manufacturing capability. It will be easier, and they will go faster.
Tesla is not doing anything that the others can't learn how to do quickly. I'm not sure why you think Tesla has invented some radical technology that will be a mystery to the others....Maybe they have the edge in self driving - for the near term. But they don't have any other real competitive advantages that the others aren't going to learn quickly.
Last edited by 1Louder; 12-16-2021 at 10:36 AM.
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majesty (12-16-2021)
12-16-2021, 10:43 AM
#271
12-16-2021, 10:44 AM
#272
12-16-2021, 11:20 AM
#273
My first Avatar....
12-16-2021, 11:52 AM
#274
12-16-2021, 12:51 PM
#275
Team Owner
Legacy auto makers have likely been thinking about EVs long before they published they were. They protect their competitive advantages, not wear them on their sleeve.
Tesla had to figure out both EV technology AND manufacturing. And the latter is an enormous problem. Legacy auto makers already have that figured out - they just need to address EV technology. They are not starting in the same spot that Tesla was. They just need to merge EV technology into an existing manufacturing capability. It will be easier, and they will go faster.
Tesla is not doing anything that the others can't learn how to do quickly. I'm not sure why you think Tesla has invented some radical technology that will be a mystery to the others....Maybe they have the edge in self driving - for the near term. But they don't have any other real competitive advantages that the others aren't going to learn quickly.
Tesla had to figure out both EV technology AND manufacturing. And the latter is an enormous problem. Legacy auto makers already have that figured out - they just need to address EV technology. They are not starting in the same spot that Tesla was. They just need to merge EV technology into an existing manufacturing capability. It will be easier, and they will go faster.
Tesla is not doing anything that the others can't learn how to do quickly. I'm not sure why you think Tesla has invented some radical technology that will be a mystery to the others....Maybe they have the edge in self driving - for the near term. But they don't have any other real competitive advantages that the others aren't going to learn quickly.
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1Louder (12-16-2021)
12-16-2021, 12:53 PM
#276
Team Owner
12-16-2021, 01:37 PM
#277
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Distribution: How can anyone say that with a straight face. Seriously. Tesla distributing it's .5M cars (or whatever) per year is the same as Toyota's 10M?
Brand:
Yeah the Tesla brand has more impact to it than Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, or Toyota for that matter. 
It's a strong brand for sure, maybe equivalent to some of those, but they do not have, "...such a lead..." Why is it so hard to discuss Tesla in an objective and factual manner? I don't have anything against them at all, and I may even own one at some point. But FSS, they are not the god of all car manufacturers.
12-16-2021, 01:39 PM
#278
Ex-OEM King
This is the real analogy.
And how did the NFL game turn out for SpaceX competitors…? Right they had to go back to school…. Correct…?
Now every legacy is going to school learning about EV technology, software, and manufacturing.
This is what is happening in reality, not your hypothetical future emerging Tesla killers.
And how did the NFL game turn out for SpaceX competitors…? Right they had to go back to school…. Correct…?
Now every legacy is going to school learning about EV technology, software, and manufacturing.
This is what is happening in reality, not your hypothetical future emerging Tesla killers.
The hardest part of selling a product is making it. R&D can make prototype samples pretty easily, series production is a whole different animal and Tesla is evidence of that. Having a 6 month wait for a car is ridiculous lol.
It's why Mercedes sells more S-Class models and BMW sells more 7 series and Audi probably sells more A8's than Tesla sells Model S's.
12-16-2021, 01:47 PM
#279
Team Owner
From a straight technical standpoint, EV tech is FAR FAR FAR easier than ICE tech on all fronts. If you think a company that can design and make a W16 quad turbo motor that pushes 1500hp and put it into a series production car capable of going tens of thousands of miles cannot bolt an electric motor to a chassis you are, frankly, delusional.
The hardest part of selling a product is making it. R&D can make prototype samples pretty easily, series production is a whole different animal and Tesla is evidence of that. Having a 6 month wait for a car is ridiculous lol.
This.
It's why Mercedes sells more S-Class models and BMW sells more 7 series and Audi probably sells more A8's than Tesla sells Model S's.
The hardest part of selling a product is making it. R&D can make prototype samples pretty easily, series production is a whole different animal and Tesla is evidence of that. Having a 6 month wait for a car is ridiculous lol.
This.
It's why Mercedes sells more S-Class models and BMW sells more 7 series and Audi probably sells more A8's than Tesla sells Model S's.
7 series is better... but S class is still the king..
I would get S class too if i were in that market... it is just.... Better...
It says Tesla sold 7k Model S in 2021.... about the same as 7 series... i seriously do not see any NEW model S...but plenty of new 7 series.. so i dont know where those Model S went.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 12-16-2021 at 01:51 PM.
12-16-2021, 02:08 PM
#280
Moderator
me some S-class, though less so with the newest iteration.W222 was fantastic on the road & probably my favorite of the 7 my grandmother had.