Toyota: 86 News
#841
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
There are a few examples like the "Red Alert" TL and such that are downright hideous but for the most part the 3G TLs have stayed pretty clean.
BUT we've been getting a lot of new people who have no idea what they are doing and don't know how to search. Keep creating threads about adding headers and performance chips and shit. Then they venture out to Ramblings and get made fun of and get butt-hurt and then banned.
BUT we've been getting a lot of new people who have no idea what they are doing and don't know how to search. Keep creating threads about adding headers and performance chips and shit. Then they venture out to Ramblings and get made fun of and get butt-hurt and then banned.
#842
#843
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
It's the cool thing to do nowadays. I sort of like it BUT not on cars that are meant to go fast. I can't stand seeing S2000s with crazy wide wheels with -9 camber or stupid shit like that.
#844
The sizzle in the Steak
#845
Some dude
You will see that almost immediately as soon as the first round of 3-year leases are up and the car starts to become affordable.
Its taken a while, but someone finally put hood vents on the 2G TSX, and weve been flooded with new members who all havent been uh...very tasteful to say the least.
I now feel some of the 3G TL forums pain.
Its taken a while, but someone finally put hood vents on the 2G TSX, and weve been flooded with new members who all havent been uh...very tasteful to say the least.
I now feel some of the 3G TL forums pain.
Never really go on the 3G TL forums but I did today and found this:
Seeing this done to the BR-Z/FR-S will be all too sad.
#846
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
^That's nothing new in the 3G TL side. Plus it's not a car that's RWD and meant to go fast.
#847
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
This was my shitty attempt at a chop. Advan TCIII wheels and a drop
I couldnt find a small enough pic of the wheels, so shrinking them down caused the jagged pixels Its also lower then Id actually go due to the suspension geometry, but it did look nice. I really want my stance to match Ken Gushis drift FRS:
I couldnt find a small enough pic of the wheels, so shrinking them down caused the jagged pixels Its also lower then Id actually go due to the suspension geometry, but it did look nice. I really want my stance to match Ken Gushis drift FRS:
#848
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
BRZ > FRS
teehee
teehee
#849
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
#850
watchu talkin 'bout?
Called hadwin-white subaru of conway, sc. I tried to inquire some info on the BRZ, the salesman didn't know what I was talking about.
I asked to speak to someone else and ended up getting the same info I got from toyota/scion. "come in and let's talk numbers, I can order you the stars and the heavens and you will be the first one with it on the planet".
Called hadwin-white subaru of conway, sc. I tried to inquire some info on the BRZ, the salesman didn't know what I was talking about.
I asked to speak to someone else and ended up getting the same info I got from toyota/scion. "come in and let's talk numbers, I can order you the stars and the heavens and you will be the first one with it on the planet".
#851
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
What's BRZ??? Is that a new burger joint in town??
i swear most of car salesmen are just dumb.
#852
Some dude
#853
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Since you mentioned it, I guess Ill make public what I started to think about last night.
The FRS is $24,930 with destinaton less TTL
The BRZ Premium is expected to be between $500-1000 more then the FRS. The Limited is pegged at around $27k.
Both the Premium and Limited have navigation and HIDs - both things Id most likely install in the FRS. The Limited has keyless entry and push button start - cool, but not needed. Yet for some reason I want it. The seats on the Limited are nicer. The FRS seats are hideous. The interior in the BRZ, all in all, looks like a nicer place to be.
The BRZ has heated mirrors and seats, which doesnt matter to me since the car wont see anything below 50* - it'll be garaged in the winter months.
Im heading to the NYIAS next week while Im in NY. I hope both cars are available to sit in. Ill make my decision there.
The FRS deposit is fully refundable, so if I decide to go with the BRZ instead I wont lose anything. But I will probably wait until the car is actually at the dealer if I do back out, just so I can see if Toyota is doing anything special for the First 86 owners.
Ive been talking to Tyler about it, and he raises some good points. I do agree with him that Id probably regret spending slightly less on the FRS if I really want what the BRZ has. Ive always promised myself that if I buy a new car, I wont settle. It has to be exactly what I want.
tl;dr
-Getting an AS1
-Dont know if its the FRS or BRZ
The FRS is $24,930 with destinaton less TTL
The BRZ Premium is expected to be between $500-1000 more then the FRS. The Limited is pegged at around $27k.
Both the Premium and Limited have navigation and HIDs - both things Id most likely install in the FRS. The Limited has keyless entry and push button start - cool, but not needed. Yet for some reason I want it. The seats on the Limited are nicer. The FRS seats are hideous. The interior in the BRZ, all in all, looks like a nicer place to be.
The BRZ has heated mirrors and seats, which doesnt matter to me since the car wont see anything below 50* - it'll be garaged in the winter months.
Im heading to the NYIAS next week while Im in NY. I hope both cars are available to sit in. Ill make my decision there.
The FRS deposit is fully refundable, so if I decide to go with the BRZ instead I wont lose anything. But I will probably wait until the car is actually at the dealer if I do back out, just so I can see if Toyota is doing anything special for the First 86 owners.
Ive been talking to Tyler about it, and he raises some good points. I do agree with him that Id probably regret spending slightly less on the FRS if I really want what the BRZ has. Ive always promised myself that if I buy a new car, I wont settle. It has to be exactly what I want.
tl;dr
-Getting an AS1
-Dont know if its the FRS or BRZ
#854
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
When I'm fortunate enough to buy my first brand new car, I won't be cutting any corners. If I'm dead set on having ventilated seats and if a car I'm looking at doesn't have them, I'll be moving on.
When making a big decision like this you have to make sure you aren't going to regret the move later in life. Sometimes it's hard to know how you'll feel in the future BUT when it comes to options and packages on cars, it'll be easier to just pay more up front than trying to add the stuff later.
I really wanted a TL with Ebony interior but I got one with Parchment. I've thought about swapping interiors but it's stupid expensive and a headache. If I just would have waited for the right car, I wouldn't be facing the dilemma.
DON'T overreact and swap yet though. Like you plan on doing, go sit in both and see if you can see yourself being comfortable and not regretting the purchase years from now.
Oh and PM me before anyone else once you make your decision
When making a big decision like this you have to make sure you aren't going to regret the move later in life. Sometimes it's hard to know how you'll feel in the future BUT when it comes to options and packages on cars, it'll be easier to just pay more up front than trying to add the stuff later.
I really wanted a TL with Ebony interior but I got one with Parchment. I've thought about swapping interiors but it's stupid expensive and a headache. If I just would have waited for the right car, I wouldn't be facing the dilemma.
DON'T overreact and swap yet though. Like you plan on doing, go sit in both and see if you can see yourself being comfortable and not regretting the purchase years from now.
Oh and PM me before anyone else once you make your decision
The following users liked this post:
civicdrivr (04-03-2012)
#855
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Meh, I'm going to get a BRZ STi later when it gets released. Probably in 3 years since my MS3 is serving me so very well.
I will never put a blower on a N/A factory engine, so I'll be happy with a BRZ STi.
If it's anything that's like the one that Insideline introduced in their recent article, I would happily pay something between $32k-35k for it.
I will never put a blower on a N/A factory engine, so I'll be happy with a BRZ STi.
If it's anything that's like the one that Insideline introduced in their recent article, I would happily pay something between $32k-35k for it.
#856
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Oh yeah, I live in Socal, but I would always love me some Heated Seat. There's nothing better than sitting on a heated seat when you are sick. LOL
#857
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
#858
Since you mentioned it, I guess Ill make public what I started to think about last night.
The FRS is $24,930 with destinaton less TTL
The BRZ Premium is expected to be between $500-1000 more then the FRS. The Limited is pegged at around $27k.
Both the Premium and Limited have navigation and HIDs - both things Id most likely install in the FRS. The Limited has keyless entry and push button start - cool, but not needed. Yet for some reason I want it. The seats on the Limited are nicer. The FRS seats are hideous. The interior in the BRZ, all in all, looks like a nicer place to be.
The BRZ has heated mirrors and seats, which doesnt matter to me since the car wont see anything below 50* - it'll be garaged in the winter months.
Im heading to the NYIAS next week while Im in NY. I hope both cars are available to sit in. Ill make my decision there.
The FRS deposit is fully refundable, so if I decide to go with the BRZ instead I wont lose anything. But I will probably wait until the car is actually at the dealer if I do back out, just so I can see if Toyota is doing anything special for the First 86 owners.
Ive been talking to Tyler about it, and he raises some good points. I do agree with him that Id probably regret spending slightly less on the FRS if I really want what the BRZ has. Ive always promised myself that if I buy a new car, I wont settle. It has to be exactly what I want.
tl;dr
-Getting an AS1
-Dont know if its the FRS or BRZ
The FRS is $24,930 with destinaton less TTL
The BRZ Premium is expected to be between $500-1000 more then the FRS. The Limited is pegged at around $27k.
Both the Premium and Limited have navigation and HIDs - both things Id most likely install in the FRS. The Limited has keyless entry and push button start - cool, but not needed. Yet for some reason I want it. The seats on the Limited are nicer. The FRS seats are hideous. The interior in the BRZ, all in all, looks like a nicer place to be.
The BRZ has heated mirrors and seats, which doesnt matter to me since the car wont see anything below 50* - it'll be garaged in the winter months.
Im heading to the NYIAS next week while Im in NY. I hope both cars are available to sit in. Ill make my decision there.
The FRS deposit is fully refundable, so if I decide to go with the BRZ instead I wont lose anything. But I will probably wait until the car is actually at the dealer if I do back out, just so I can see if Toyota is doing anything special for the First 86 owners.
Ive been talking to Tyler about it, and he raises some good points. I do agree with him that Id probably regret spending slightly less on the FRS if I really want what the BRZ has. Ive always promised myself that if I buy a new car, I wont settle. It has to be exactly what I want.
tl;dr
-Getting an AS1
-Dont know if its the FRS or BRZ
#859
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
whaaaaaat?
I thought it was going to be boosted for a STi version!?
I thought it was going to be boosted for a STi version!?
#860
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I feel exactly the same. My brother in law is trying to talk me into an S2000 but I don't want to settle, so naturally I'm looking at the club racer editions. Most of which are north of $25k. Now with this coming out I can have more amenities, brand new car smell, warranty, all for around the same ball park number. I too will not settle.
The good thing is that the Scion and Subaru dealers here offer lifetime oil changes and inspections.
Scion and one of the Subaru dealers warranty the engine and transmission for life. The other Subaru dealer gives a 10 year/250k mile powertrain warranty. All offer free loaner cars. Im actually quite surprised by everything that they offer, especially compared to the local Honda dealers.
Nope, all rumors point to a 250hp NA motor.
#861
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
#862
The good thing is that the Scion and Subaru dealers here offer lifetime oil changes and inspections.
Scion and one of the Subaru dealers warranty the engine and transmission for life. The other Subaru dealer gives a 10 year/250k mile powertrain warranty. All offer free loaner cars. Im actually quite surprised by everything that they offer, especially compared to the local Honda dealers.
.
#863
My first Avatar....
#864
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012...n-the-way.aspx
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11203284...drive---report
http://autoholics.com/2012/03/31/250...e-Works-622278
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ear-drive.html
Sorry
I doubt Scion would honor the Subaru warranty.
Here, theres a Honda dealer about 10 minutes from me. The nearest Subaru dealer is 45 minutes. There are only two in this area.
The warranty is nice and all, but for a majority of the things covered, Id inevitably void it
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11203284...drive---report
http://autoholics.com/2012/03/31/250...e-Works-622278
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ear-drive.html
Sorry
Yea one other thing weighing heavy on my decision is dealers that are local. I don't want to have to tow my vehicle an hour away in case there is something catastrophically wrong. That limits me to Honda and Toyota (no Subaru). I wonder if I buy the Subaru, would scion honor the same warranty as opposed to me having to drive 60+ miles.
Here, theres a Honda dealer about 10 minutes from me. The nearest Subaru dealer is 45 minutes. There are only two in this area.
The warranty is nice and all, but for a majority of the things covered, Id inevitably void it
#865
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
The warranties are there for you to void it. I never cared about what type of warranties that I'll be gettting with my new car. I hate dealerships touching my car anyway. They would more likely mess up the car even more.
Void it and forget about it asap.
Void it and forget about it asap.
#866
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Im the same way. But for a new generation car, Im a bit iffy.
OTOH, if I grenade the engine an EJ25 swap isnt difficult
OTOH, if I grenade the engine an EJ25 swap isnt difficult
#867
It'll be mostly show at first. Rims, suspension, maybe some interior things like shift knob, LED's. CAI and maybe some non-ricey exhaust. Once the car gets some age, if I still love it I will move onto bigger and better things like the internals. I'd like to try to get around ~280whp without any type of FI. If it doesn't seem possible I will go the snail route.
#868
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Might plan is a small turbo on light boost, after I become more familiar with my limits and a RWD car.
Also, heading to Subaru to put a deposit down on the last preorder (they were only given 6, the other dealer 4 - all spoken for).
Lets see what happens
Also, heading to Subaru to put a deposit down on the last preorder (they were only given 6, the other dealer 4 - all spoken for).
Lets see what happens
#869
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
That's how I am with my car. If something happens to my turbo itself, I'll be gladly upgrade it with something bigger. There are a lot of affordable options and it's pretty easy to do it.
#870
Suzuka Master
these cars better not turn into show cars! Waste of money IMO, but i'm that way for every show car. I'd rather drive then look and let other people look.
#872
Of course, to each their own.
#873
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Much like every car I own/have owned, it will be built the way I see fit and driven. Hard.
This car in particular will see track time. The reason I havent taken the CL to the track is due to my fear of breaking it.
Here is the order of mods I have in mind:
1 - AZine sticker
2 - Debadge
3 - Tint
And eventually coil overs and wheels if I see the need. My biggest goal is to learn how to control a RWD at the limit on a track - and just have fun with it.
This car in particular will see track time. The reason I havent taken the CL to the track is due to my fear of breaking it.
Here is the order of mods I have in mind:
1 - AZine sticker
2 - Debadge
3 - Tint
And eventually coil overs and wheels if I see the need. My biggest goal is to learn how to control a RWD at the limit on a track - and just have fun with it.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 04-03-2012 at 03:18 PM.
The following users liked this post:
phee (04-03-2012)
#875
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Will do, on both accounts
But, slight issue. I was getting ready to head up to the dealer when the internet sale manager called saying someone just claiming the final preorder car
He said I could still order one but he couldnt tell me when Id expect it. Though, he didnt seem too sure.
I did see the original reports saying they were only sending 6k over here, but thats been debunked by Keisuke Kirimoto that officially confirmed there will be no production limits.
If the FRS isnt up to my standards but the BRZ is, Ill just wait until mid-late summer and pick a BRZ Limited up
But, slight issue. I was getting ready to head up to the dealer when the internet sale manager called saying someone just claiming the final preorder car
He said I could still order one but he couldnt tell me when Id expect it. Though, he didnt seem too sure.
I did see the original reports saying they were only sending 6k over here, but thats been debunked by Keisuke Kirimoto that officially confirmed there will be no production limits.
If the FRS isnt up to my standards but the BRZ is, Ill just wait until mid-late summer and pick a BRZ Limited up
#876
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJFg...ayer_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSejv...ayer_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSejv...ayer_embedded#!
Last edited by StreetKA; 04-03-2012 at 06:44 PM.
#877
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Ive seen that. Theyre planning on dropping a 2JZ in it. As a drag car, it should be good, but for anything else, thats a lot of weight over the front end.
Im expanding my search for Subaru dealers now. I hope to find one thats within 100miles.
Im expanding my search for Subaru dealers now. I hope to find one thats within 100miles.
#878
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (8)
At first when it was announced that Subaru and Toyoya were to collaborate on a rear wheel drive sports car I honestly didn’t pay attention nor did I want to be bothered by the thought. For years it seemed cars from the Far East start as an awesome idea and by the time it gets to our shores it’s very watered down and becomes apparent that someone in Japan had a very different idea of what Americans would want.
This "watering" down effect for the average enthusiast is always felt in the handling and braking areas. Add in the traditional factory awd handling and added weight and we are left with a platform that “has potential". To the average enthusiast you can tell the "passion" of the car was lost in corporate decisions and it left you wondering "what were they thinking?".
The passion of the new BRZ sports car from Subaru was not only retained but was THE primary focus. This is evident as you approach the car. From the carved roof line that provides additional head room for driver and passenger, the hood bulges just over the front wheel arches, to the front nose that is meant to slice through the air with a high level of efficiency. Your mind processes these things in milliseconds and it’s NOT the same as seeing it at the car show. At the car show you are 5-6 months away from driving it,.... if your wife says you can get one, ..if you can afford it....but at 25 grand.......you can ! Its at that moment that a voice says “you’re getting this". You feel like a kid who sees the BMX bike or a skateboard in the store and has already mastered it.
From the first second you stand near this car.....off of the stage at your local new car show, its very much "game on" and your throat swallows as your senses are alerted that something great has happened here. You won’t notice but anyone around you will notice,.. your smile...and I don’t mean the controlled smile when you take your driver’s license picture...I mean the smile you have as you day dream about hitting the lottery ! THAT SMILE! That uncontrollable smile of pure happiness. Total elapsed time.......2 seconds.
These feelings consume me as images of all the fun things in life flashed before me. My dad driving his 450SEL 6.9 around a long sweeper when I was young to show me how well independent suspension cars handle, sliding my mom’s 280Z in the rain in 10th grade or the first few miles of my new 87 Golf GTi. But as quickly as that happens all of the things I have learned as a driver, instructor and racer also came to mind and then the big drums and theatrical music starting playing in the Grand Turismo music track in my head.
Whether you are short or tall as you stand before the car you realize its overall height is LOW. There is a feeling of "OMG what have I got myself into" that admittedly gets the adrenalin pumping. As you slide down into the low sitting coupe there are NO feelings of familiarity from ANY Subaru of the past. Your body slides into the most supportive, heavily bolstered seats of any Subaru I can ever remember. My 6 ft 2 frame, size 38 waist had no problem feeling immediately at home. Anyone who has ever sat in a Formula car or open wheel car will be very reminded of this seating and foot position because your butt is sitting LOW and you feel as though the pedals are "hung" from the fire wall and your heels are on the floor which promotes an INSTANT "fast feeling". Right away you notice the pedals are placed perfectly for heel and toe action. For anyone who never learned now it will be MUCH easier.
As you extend your hands over the steering wheel adjusting it outward or up for tall drivers, you quickly notice you have room for proper hand placement and full range of motion. But the biggest thing you notice is you are UNDER the wheel and the under dash area has a lot of room for say a 34inch inseam in this situation. Steering wheel and gear shifter location are spaced for sport driving and the shifter is in front of the wheel. Undoubtedly the Miata was the king for stock shortest shifter throw but those days are over! The only effort needed to shift this car is with your wrist.
While taking all of this in your eyes fall upon the red “push start” button. And for once you feel as though there was someone on the board of directors or project managers who is ACTUALLY a “car guy”(or gal).
With your left hand on the much smaller than EVER steering wheel, and the remote in your pocket you push the RED start button and the small direct injection 2.0 liter, Boxer engine comes to life. Nothing earth shattering but it revs freely right off of idle. To the “mod hungry” group of enthusiast you instantly imagine a light weight flywheel and firmer clutch …except…….the clutch feels VERY good. The motor revs very fast and is responsive. The motor does NOT have the boxer rumble but does sound aggressive.
There is no “reaching” for the shifter as it’s easily within reach and pushing the lever into first gear proves to be a very short commute from neutral. This is the first real hint of what you have “gotten yourself into”.
As I pull out of the parking space the first thing I notice is I am NOT turning the steering wheel like a mass transit bus driver. Instead my left hand drops from the 9 o clock position to the 6 o clock position and I am reminded of an 05 STI with a Quik Rack ! The 13:1 rack is electronic and the steering feel is medium weight. Imagine Miata meets Lotus Elise, meets Porsche 911!
My initial curiosity was to press the gas pedal to the floor to see how the 200hp, high revving motor feels, but I resisted. First I started turning the steering wheel to see how responsive it is. ITS RESPONSIVE ! Its amazing what happens when you remove front axles and a differential. Immediately you notice the absence of body roll. Your brain says..” how can this be?”. Then the advertised lower CG than a Ferrari 458 comes to mind and you look for the closest exit ramp.
Turn in is cerebral like. NO REALLY…..its unlike ANY Subaru I have ever driven. That includes the GC8 STI Type RA with factory goodies etc. Mind you my wife and I met at a Subaru dealer and we have owned 13 Subaru’s since 2000. The list includes 04 STI, 06 Legacy Spec-B, 2001 2.5Rs, 2011 WRX and many more. NONE were left stock and ALL had extensive suspension and brake work. ALL were tracked at some point in time. I only say this to validate my opinion of the STOCK steering in the BRZ.
Simply put: Subaru hit this out of the park! The steering is this car means you can put this car EXACTLY where you want it. The stock Michelin Primacy’s will fool you. These tires have a VERY stiff sidewall and in typical Michelin fashion, are surprisingly supportive for a 215/45-17.
Some will do the crazy wheel and tires sizes and some will go for “less equals more”. The factory knew this and have rolled the fenders for you. With the wheels off you quickly realize you will be able to fit a 10inch wide wheel in the back. But remember at 200hp and 2700lbs anything above a 245 probably will never get warm enough for good traction! This platform is efficient. Everything the factory did was to save weight and make the best use of the power to weight ratio.
Borrowing from the multi link rear suspension of the previous and current generation Impreza and WRX platforms the rear suspension I am told has various pillow ball mounts for a more “positive handling car”.
14mm rear sway bar, reverse front WRX control arms, no pitch stop mount and motor mounts that are seemingly WRX like…….make up the short list of distinctive differences this car has underneath.
No front eccentric bolts means stock class auto-crossers have their work cut out for them. But that’s just it….this car STOCK on a twisty road will RUN AWAY from a stage 2 STi. How you might ask?
2749 lbs with full tank, 2714 lbs with spare tire removed and 2650 lbs with 1/8 of a tank means this car weighs 150lbs less than a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS, has 35 more horsepower ,no front axles to push, and does this thing called………TURN !!! The BRZ turns like the best of them. I have driven a lot of cars over the years and by default instructed a lot of students (which means you have to take them for 3 laps in their car before you turn it over to them) in all of the latest and greatest. This car will dominate at autocrossing. Track day drivers will love it because unlike the AWD platform of the WRX and STI this car has CRISP turn in, allows you to get on the gas BEFORE the apex and tracks out with an amazing amount of confidence. AGAIN……all from a stock car.
Less weight means less to stop. The brake pedal is hard and feels like an EVO with stainless steel lines ! No more mushy pedal even after you do braided lines and good fluid. Under hard braking the car is planted. The first thing you think is….”why would you get a big brake kit?”. Front rotors are same as 2011 WRX. Rear brakes also 2011 WRX-like. This car stops very well. Consider these brakes come on a car with about 70more horsepower and weighs 550 lbs more. It stops.
Oh and the power. 200hp in a 2700 lb car on paper isn’t a big deal. What Subaru has done is they have made this car handle so well that as soon as the road turns……the power becomes far more usable than say a 300hp AWD STI. Keep in mind I drove my 300whp 2011 WRX to pick up the BRZ. My WRX has STOPTECH brakes, Pagid pads, Bilstein shocks, sway bars, steering rack bushings and Michelin Pilot Supersports. The BRZ’s ability to make use of the power you can put down is the key. Gone are the days of turn in…WAIT……then get back on the gas, then track out. Now its FAR more fluid like. It reminds me of a go kart in the sense that you come in hot, trail brake, crank in the amount of steering input you need and the car gives it to you as you sweep past the apex and then track out WITHOUT upsetting the “rhythm” of cornering. Most racers know that the reality of “slow in fast out” becomes fast in, “gather it up “then fast out ! This is true with this car. I do think that it rewards an experienced driver but would also allow a novice to have fun and learn the limits. Yes the factory did design some understeer into this equation….BUT…….before you get mad with visions of -3.9 degrees of front camber…….the understeer this car has is LESS than a older chassis GC Impreza with ALL of the caster and camber tricks.
The reality is this car is amazing. Some will buy it and do a turbo kit with 700whp, some with buy it and do stock level autocrossing. For me this car is so refreshing with its handling and agility that power just isn’t the focus. Yes it could use some more power but it more than makes up for it with handling, braking and “FEELING”. One thing is for certain, nothing in my recent memory feels as good as a BRZ.
Myles Williams
Racecomp Engineering/GTWORX
This "watering" down effect for the average enthusiast is always felt in the handling and braking areas. Add in the traditional factory awd handling and added weight and we are left with a platform that “has potential". To the average enthusiast you can tell the "passion" of the car was lost in corporate decisions and it left you wondering "what were they thinking?".
The passion of the new BRZ sports car from Subaru was not only retained but was THE primary focus. This is evident as you approach the car. From the carved roof line that provides additional head room for driver and passenger, the hood bulges just over the front wheel arches, to the front nose that is meant to slice through the air with a high level of efficiency. Your mind processes these things in milliseconds and it’s NOT the same as seeing it at the car show. At the car show you are 5-6 months away from driving it,.... if your wife says you can get one, ..if you can afford it....but at 25 grand.......you can ! Its at that moment that a voice says “you’re getting this". You feel like a kid who sees the BMX bike or a skateboard in the store and has already mastered it.
From the first second you stand near this car.....off of the stage at your local new car show, its very much "game on" and your throat swallows as your senses are alerted that something great has happened here. You won’t notice but anyone around you will notice,.. your smile...and I don’t mean the controlled smile when you take your driver’s license picture...I mean the smile you have as you day dream about hitting the lottery ! THAT SMILE! That uncontrollable smile of pure happiness. Total elapsed time.......2 seconds.
These feelings consume me as images of all the fun things in life flashed before me. My dad driving his 450SEL 6.9 around a long sweeper when I was young to show me how well independent suspension cars handle, sliding my mom’s 280Z in the rain in 10th grade or the first few miles of my new 87 Golf GTi. But as quickly as that happens all of the things I have learned as a driver, instructor and racer also came to mind and then the big drums and theatrical music starting playing in the Grand Turismo music track in my head.
Whether you are short or tall as you stand before the car you realize its overall height is LOW. There is a feeling of "OMG what have I got myself into" that admittedly gets the adrenalin pumping. As you slide down into the low sitting coupe there are NO feelings of familiarity from ANY Subaru of the past. Your body slides into the most supportive, heavily bolstered seats of any Subaru I can ever remember. My 6 ft 2 frame, size 38 waist had no problem feeling immediately at home. Anyone who has ever sat in a Formula car or open wheel car will be very reminded of this seating and foot position because your butt is sitting LOW and you feel as though the pedals are "hung" from the fire wall and your heels are on the floor which promotes an INSTANT "fast feeling". Right away you notice the pedals are placed perfectly for heel and toe action. For anyone who never learned now it will be MUCH easier.
As you extend your hands over the steering wheel adjusting it outward or up for tall drivers, you quickly notice you have room for proper hand placement and full range of motion. But the biggest thing you notice is you are UNDER the wheel and the under dash area has a lot of room for say a 34inch inseam in this situation. Steering wheel and gear shifter location are spaced for sport driving and the shifter is in front of the wheel. Undoubtedly the Miata was the king for stock shortest shifter throw but those days are over! The only effort needed to shift this car is with your wrist.
While taking all of this in your eyes fall upon the red “push start” button. And for once you feel as though there was someone on the board of directors or project managers who is ACTUALLY a “car guy”(or gal).
With your left hand on the much smaller than EVER steering wheel, and the remote in your pocket you push the RED start button and the small direct injection 2.0 liter, Boxer engine comes to life. Nothing earth shattering but it revs freely right off of idle. To the “mod hungry” group of enthusiast you instantly imagine a light weight flywheel and firmer clutch …except…….the clutch feels VERY good. The motor revs very fast and is responsive. The motor does NOT have the boxer rumble but does sound aggressive.
There is no “reaching” for the shifter as it’s easily within reach and pushing the lever into first gear proves to be a very short commute from neutral. This is the first real hint of what you have “gotten yourself into”.
As I pull out of the parking space the first thing I notice is I am NOT turning the steering wheel like a mass transit bus driver. Instead my left hand drops from the 9 o clock position to the 6 o clock position and I am reminded of an 05 STI with a Quik Rack ! The 13:1 rack is electronic and the steering feel is medium weight. Imagine Miata meets Lotus Elise, meets Porsche 911!
My initial curiosity was to press the gas pedal to the floor to see how the 200hp, high revving motor feels, but I resisted. First I started turning the steering wheel to see how responsive it is. ITS RESPONSIVE ! Its amazing what happens when you remove front axles and a differential. Immediately you notice the absence of body roll. Your brain says..” how can this be?”. Then the advertised lower CG than a Ferrari 458 comes to mind and you look for the closest exit ramp.
Turn in is cerebral like. NO REALLY…..its unlike ANY Subaru I have ever driven. That includes the GC8 STI Type RA with factory goodies etc. Mind you my wife and I met at a Subaru dealer and we have owned 13 Subaru’s since 2000. The list includes 04 STI, 06 Legacy Spec-B, 2001 2.5Rs, 2011 WRX and many more. NONE were left stock and ALL had extensive suspension and brake work. ALL were tracked at some point in time. I only say this to validate my opinion of the STOCK steering in the BRZ.
Simply put: Subaru hit this out of the park! The steering is this car means you can put this car EXACTLY where you want it. The stock Michelin Primacy’s will fool you. These tires have a VERY stiff sidewall and in typical Michelin fashion, are surprisingly supportive for a 215/45-17.
Some will do the crazy wheel and tires sizes and some will go for “less equals more”. The factory knew this and have rolled the fenders for you. With the wheels off you quickly realize you will be able to fit a 10inch wide wheel in the back. But remember at 200hp and 2700lbs anything above a 245 probably will never get warm enough for good traction! This platform is efficient. Everything the factory did was to save weight and make the best use of the power to weight ratio.
Borrowing from the multi link rear suspension of the previous and current generation Impreza and WRX platforms the rear suspension I am told has various pillow ball mounts for a more “positive handling car”.
14mm rear sway bar, reverse front WRX control arms, no pitch stop mount and motor mounts that are seemingly WRX like…….make up the short list of distinctive differences this car has underneath.
No front eccentric bolts means stock class auto-crossers have their work cut out for them. But that’s just it….this car STOCK on a twisty road will RUN AWAY from a stage 2 STi. How you might ask?
2749 lbs with full tank, 2714 lbs with spare tire removed and 2650 lbs with 1/8 of a tank means this car weighs 150lbs less than a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS, has 35 more horsepower ,no front axles to push, and does this thing called………TURN !!! The BRZ turns like the best of them. I have driven a lot of cars over the years and by default instructed a lot of students (which means you have to take them for 3 laps in their car before you turn it over to them) in all of the latest and greatest. This car will dominate at autocrossing. Track day drivers will love it because unlike the AWD platform of the WRX and STI this car has CRISP turn in, allows you to get on the gas BEFORE the apex and tracks out with an amazing amount of confidence. AGAIN……all from a stock car.
Less weight means less to stop. The brake pedal is hard and feels like an EVO with stainless steel lines ! No more mushy pedal even after you do braided lines and good fluid. Under hard braking the car is planted. The first thing you think is….”why would you get a big brake kit?”. Front rotors are same as 2011 WRX. Rear brakes also 2011 WRX-like. This car stops very well. Consider these brakes come on a car with about 70more horsepower and weighs 550 lbs more. It stops.
Oh and the power. 200hp in a 2700 lb car on paper isn’t a big deal. What Subaru has done is they have made this car handle so well that as soon as the road turns……the power becomes far more usable than say a 300hp AWD STI. Keep in mind I drove my 300whp 2011 WRX to pick up the BRZ. My WRX has STOPTECH brakes, Pagid pads, Bilstein shocks, sway bars, steering rack bushings and Michelin Pilot Supersports. The BRZ’s ability to make use of the power you can put down is the key. Gone are the days of turn in…WAIT……then get back on the gas, then track out. Now its FAR more fluid like. It reminds me of a go kart in the sense that you come in hot, trail brake, crank in the amount of steering input you need and the car gives it to you as you sweep past the apex and then track out WITHOUT upsetting the “rhythm” of cornering. Most racers know that the reality of “slow in fast out” becomes fast in, “gather it up “then fast out ! This is true with this car. I do think that it rewards an experienced driver but would also allow a novice to have fun and learn the limits. Yes the factory did design some understeer into this equation….BUT…….before you get mad with visions of -3.9 degrees of front camber…….the understeer this car has is LESS than a older chassis GC Impreza with ALL of the caster and camber tricks.
The reality is this car is amazing. Some will buy it and do a turbo kit with 700whp, some with buy it and do stock level autocrossing. For me this car is so refreshing with its handling and agility that power just isn’t the focus. Yes it could use some more power but it more than makes up for it with handling, braking and “FEELING”. One thing is for certain, nothing in my recent memory feels as good as a BRZ.
Myles Williams
Racecomp Engineering/GTWORX
The following 2 users liked this post by StreetKA:
CarbonGray Earl (04-03-2012),
pttl (04-03-2012)
#880
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Yea, and for those that care about it, the 0-60 times are on par with the Si and the MX5 at 6.4s (not sure how that 7.3s number came about).