AZuser

FR-S Speedster by Cartel Customs.


Looks like a real life version of a Hot Wheels or Matchbox car.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

as EFF

charliemike

Nissan is talking about bringing back a sub-370Z car now that these are out.

240SX maybe?

AZuser

I wonder what would be more fun, a BRZ/FR-S or S2000?

Every time I see an S2000 (like this morning while walking dog), I'm reminded how much I still want one.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Fun Factor
S2K = Miata = FRS = BRZ

I'm just assuming.

Costco

IMO the S2000 will probably be the funnest. Nothing like winding up a car to 9000 rpm, or even 8000.

But the FR-S looks to offer the best value. Not everyone wants a roadster. Besides, it also has a back seat.... nothing to do with fun factor necessarily but once you don't have one, you realize what you miss out on. I've always thought the S2000 and Miata were great values, though they could come down in price a bit, or at least offer more for what they ask for.

A brand new S2000 was around $32,000+ wasn't it? By comparison the FR-S will be roughly 3/4 of the price.

MarbleGT

Being able to put the top down puts the S2K/Miata on a completely different level of fun.

When you are in your BRZ, look at the guy in the S2K next to you at the light with his top down. Hes having more fun.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ oh that's for sure.

I still remember the day I drove my ex-gf's dad's brand new SL55 AMG. Driving that thing with top down on a freeway literally felt like I owned the road.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Anyone seen the dyno test on Edmunds?
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...cion-fr-s.html



That dip between 3000-5000rpm is quite significant....Toyota engineers said "they intentionally traded some sauce at 4000 rpm in order to gain some driveability lower in the rev range." I'm not too sure about that.....I don't see that kind of dip in a K20 or F20C......

Also, is it just me? but I'd imagine an engine with direct injection would get better numbers than the old K20 in the Civic Si (not talking about S2K since that car is more $$):



It's FWD vs RWD and obviously RWD has more losses..but 20hp difference at the wheel is pretty big....

AZuser

Here's the video

MarbleGT

I dont think I've ever seen a dip like that. Thats kinda scary.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Yep. What caused it again? Sorry didn't read the article.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

I still dont get how civic si which is heavier and has same hp accelerates quicker to 60 than brz/frs. Im not sure about this engine. Im gonna wait for sti i guess.

KillerG

I want to doubt them but with the fact tat every reviewer and their mother is lining up on their knees for this car im just gonna assume the engineers knew what they were doing

TMQ

A lot of the high performance driving schools do not allow open top vehicles, so that limits the choice to such track events. S2000 is a great car for the road.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The Toyota engineers said, "they intentionally traded some sauce at 4000 rpm in order to gain some driveability lower in the rev range."

If you look at the torque curve of the FR-S from Edmunds and the torque curve of the Civic Si, you will notice that there's a 20hp difference at the wheel. I think the difference comes from higher redline, the ability to sustain the torque output at a higher rpm than the FR-S, and less drivetrain losses thanks to FWD. 20whp is huge.

Also, I know that the FR-S tops out at 59mph in 2nd gear, thus reaching 60mph requires an extra gear shift. That would add 0.5s or so I'd imagine.

Yea, I think reviewers aren't too concerned with the power and/or they know that the FR-S isn't the fastest thing on Earth. They care more about its RWD layout, its excellent handling, and its driving feel. I don't think many cars can match FR-S can you look at things this way.

Costco

Zero to sixty is a lame and antiquated metric anyway.

Show of hands.... who would choose a Civic Si over an FR-S/BRZ?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

There are just so many better cars under $25k than a Civic Si.

And yes, only idiots brag about the 0-60 times.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I dont care how much power the car makes, its how it uses it.

I sat in the FRS before I sat in the BRZ, and going in I was expecting the worst. The interior is actually quite nice, and if the BRZ werent on the market or had a $5k+ price difference, I would have no qualms about living with the FRS every day. It looked and felt quite good in person.

Its only marginally bigger then the MX5 on the outside, but due to the fixed roof, there is tons more room when youre sitting in it. Speaking of which, those seats hug you. Im 6' tall, 165lbs and the car fit me like a glove.

The shifter was very similar to the S2k unit, just with reverse to the left and up instead of to the right and down. The cogs seemed very closely spaced, and I liked that. We'll see how it truly is when I drive it.

They had 3 FRS' at the show; one Whiteout, one Hot Lava, and one Asphalt (the color I have ordered). The BRZ was WSB (STI blue). The interior on that was much brighter, and the seats felt great. The trunk on the car is surprisingly large.

The FRS' radio looks very cheap. I really wish they sold a stripped down car without a radio.

RE: Backseats -

Please dont use the backseats in a comparison between the S2k and MX5. Its sole purpose is to separate the passenger compartment from the trunk. No one is fitting in that back seat, unless you typically transport quadruple amputees.

Aman

^ Or small kids. IMO they're better than no backseat, and you have some room to move the seat backwards and forwards. I'm 6"2 and the Miata is a little tight for me.

When did you order? Getting rid of the CL?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The FRS was ordered 2 (3? ) weeks ago. The CL is staying as its worthless

I might still cancel it and switch to the BRZ, but there is another car that Im working on that Id much rather go with. Very similar price point, but this particular car has a fixed roof

F23A4

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Silly question, both the FRS/BRZ are drive-by-wire?
I'm guessing yes.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yep. From what Ive heard, its tuned nicely. Im going through pics from the auto show now, Ill post some later tonight after I process them.

Costco

about the backseats, for shame. Though I guess if they didn't have any at all we'd be yelling out blasphemy much like people complained about the CR-Z. Lower insurance I guess, and a nice looking shelf for you to put groceries on.


another thing, aren't most if not all road cars these days drive-by-wire?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Precisely. I always considered the back seat in my Prelude a leather-covered shelf

And yes, damn near every car is DBW. It sucks, but if they can tune out all lag than

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Especially for a car like the BRZ/FR-S....they are all about driving feel and handling, not acceleration.

AZuser

Crazy. Gives Subaru dealers reason to mark up the BRZ if demand is as strong in the US

http://www.ft86club.com/?p=1463

Carraway

Hey all. It's been a while since I've been around so this may be old news. My local dealer is expecting a retail date of June 1st for the FR-S. (I just helped my dad buy a Tacoma).

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

This Subaru dealer that I had visited yesterday said they are getting the first one on mid-May.

And just for the record, paying mark-up for ANY car is stupid imo. It's just dumb.

Carraway

I agree. Where I live there are a couple of Toyota/Scion dealers that tend to treat people well, so I'll be surprised if they try the markup, whereas nearly all of the Subaru dealers are owned by a company known for using every manipulative trick in the dark side of auto sales. I'm certain they'll be ridiculous. There is very one small, independent dealer that is good, but two good people there have recently left which does not bode well.

By the way, does anyone know how insurance companies are viewing this car? Hopefully they'll evaluate it more along the lines of an MX-5 instead of a WRX or RSX.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I think this is going to be put in line with WRX as far as the insurance rate is concerned. A shit load of idiot teenagers are going to rice the hell out of this car and wrap it around the trees.

Carraway

Yeah, that's what worries me. I was kind of hoping all the talk about "only 200 hp" would keep away most of the worst drivers. Hopefully they won't start another Toyota media frenzy when they learn about lift throttle oversteer the hard way.

But if I can fit in it (I'm 6'2" and wider than I should be) I'll likely get one once the initial frenzy is over.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Another reason why Im hesitant to purchase this car when its new to market.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

I never said that 0-60 is priority for me. But i was only wondering why is there such a huge difference in acceleration (Si 6.4 and FRS 7.3). I picked civic because its has similar power and weight a bit more so it looks like the RWD layout is what makes it slower at this stage. I would never compare this car to a civic lol.

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

+1

the amount of teenage ricer looking kids crowding around the FR-S and talking about the specs at the car show on sunday was too many for my taste. i just wanted to sit in it and compare it to the br-z which i did but there was just sooooo many teenagers examining the engine bay and mouthing off shit like they knew what to do.

the br-z display was way different. seems like none of those teenagers made it over to the br-z when i was there. maybe they couldn't read the map to see where the subaru section was?

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

+1 lol

This is exactly how i felt... Alot of teenagers by scion made me go to Subaru section. I think its well worth to pay an extra and get BRZ. I'll wait to test drive it and then i will decide since i need a new car anyway.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Teenagers will probably say, WHY WOULD YOU PAY EXTRA FOR THE SAME CAR???? I CAN HAZ MORE MOD WITH THAT MONEY. DRIFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT

I'm in for BRZ for sure.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Gearing. The Si is in third gear when it hits 60, the BRZ/FRS hits it at the top of second. The Si also puts down a bit more power at the wheels and has more torque.

But, Ive read that the actual 0-60 time for the BRZ/FRS was ~6.7s, not 7.3. I believe it was Edmunds that got the 7.3s time, and Motor Trend got the 6.7.

ttribe

I'm just imagining all the FRS-to-GT86-JDM...yo!-conversions that we'll see on the street.