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Old 07-21-2016, 12:26 PM
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I respect what the company is trying to do - I really do - but I find a comparison of a car's autopilot system to aviation autopilot systems to be disheartening. The autopilot system in an airplane is a completely different ballgame. There are no pedestrians in the sky. There are no dogs in the sky. There are no stop signs, red lights, motorcycles, and cars all over the place. Sure there are other aircraft, but there's a wee bit more space up there. Anyways.
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:43 PM
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My friend just went to test drive the Model X.

Within his 20 minutes of driving, he almost got into a car accident already because of the auto pilot. Luckily, he was not relying on it 100%.
he was following a car in auto pilot mode. The car in front him accelerated to run a Yellow turning red, by the time his Model X get to the intersection, it was already Red and the car was still trying to accelerate to chase the car in front of him, so he had to intervene or he would get T boned.

Just shows if people only rely on auto pilot, it is just a matter of time before an accident happens.

Also the Falcon door has some major flaws in practicality, if you have a garage with low ceiling and dim lighting, chances are one of these days, the door will open and hit your ceiling/fixtures/lights because of the way the sensors are designed. Or worse if you park in a dark parking garage with low concrete ceilings, good luck.
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:56 PM
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compare with:


there's just no comparison. period.
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Old 07-21-2016, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
My friend just went to test drive the Model X.

Within his 20 minutes of driving, he almost got into a car accident already because of the auto pilot. Luckily, he was not relying on it 100%.
he was following a car in auto pilot mode. The car in front him accelerated to run a Yellow turning red, by the time his Model X get to the intersection, it was already Red and the car was still trying to accelerate to chase the car in front of him, so he had to intervene or he would get T boned.

Just shows if people only rely on auto pilot, it is just a matter of time before an accident happens.

Also the Falcon door has some major flaws in practicality, if you have a garage with low ceiling and dim lighting, chances are one of these days, the door will open and hit your ceiling/fixtures/lights because of the way the sensors are designed. Or worse if you park in a dark parking garage with low concrete ceilings, good luck.
glad he's ok.

here are some thoughts I had on the matter which I pointed towards a friend who works at Tesla:

It is too early for automated systems on our streets - there are too many stupid drivers out there - remember you can be the best driver in the world and still get into an accident when someone else hits you. With automated systems you are naturally not going to be paying as much attention - how are you possibly going to be able to be ready for that possible "jerk" reaction to catching that person running a red light in your peripheral vision, that drunk driver crossing the median and heading straight towards your car, the list goes on and on. Automated cars will be great in the future but not while idiot drivers are out driving along with them. Notice I am not saying anything against automated systems, themselves, I am talking about human errors.

if you want truly autonomous driving and want to truly reap the benefits of that, EVERY car would need to be driven by a robot. Stop and think about it. You want to mix robot cars (cars driven by computers) with cars driven by humans. Tell me what's wrong with that picture. Microsoft made a tablet in 2002 or whatever, and it failed. Why? Because the world was not ready for it. Same scenario here. Apple comes in and steals the show with the iPad in 2011 or whenever. I think we will see the same thing happen in this scenario - down the road - when people - and the roads - are actually ready for this.

and then there's this:
Self-Driving Cars Will Likely Have To Deal With The Harsh Reality Of Who Lives And Who Dies | HotHardware
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:00 PM
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Another new deep pockets model.

P100D

0-60 2.5 seconds
315 mile range.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:02 PM
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https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla...tion-car-world



New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the WorldThe Tesla TeamAugust 23, 2016


The Model S P100D with Ludicrous mode is the third fastest accelerating production car ever produced, with a 0-60 mph time of 2.5* seconds. However, both the LaFerrari and the Porsche 918 Spyder were limited run, million dollar vehicles and cannot be bought new. While those cars are small two seaters with very little luggage space, the pure electric, all-wheel drive Model S P100D has four doors, seats up to 5 adults plus 2 children and has exceptional cargo capacity.

The 100 kWh battery also increases range substantially to an estimated 315 miles on the EPA cycle and 613 km on the EU cycle, making it the first to go beyond 300 miles and the longest range production electric vehicle by far.

The larger battery pack is also available on the Model X, making the world’s quickest SUV even faster. Model X P100D with Ludicrous mode accelerates to 60 mph in 2.9* seconds and travels up to 289 miles EPA estimated and 542 km EU on a single charge. Model X is also a pure electric SUV and can seat up to seven adults.

Model S and Model X are engineered to be the safest cars on the road and to have the highest ratings from NHTSA. Both have access to the Tesla Supercharger network for the freedom to travel long distance for free. And every Tesla will improve over time with free over the air upgrades.

Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous, but not taken delivery, can upgrade to the 100 kWh pack for $10,000. Existing P90D Ludicrous owners can also upgrade to a 100 kWh pack, but for $20,000, as their used 90 kWh pack will have to be recycled.

While the P100D Ludicrous is obviously an expensive vehicle, we want to emphasize that every sale helps pay for the smaller and much more affordable Tesla Model 3 that is in development. Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development.

* Expected value using max power mode and Motor Trend benchmark
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
Another new deep pockets model.

P100D

0-60 2.5 seconds
315 mile range.
I just seen this a few minutes ago. That is really bad ass. Would love to try this out.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:10 PM
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Just a few miles short on making it from the Tesla Factory to LA

353 miles from the factory to "Los Angeles, CA"


The day these have a range of 400-500 miles and can recharge as fast as petrol is when I'll consider this.

Last edited by Mizouse; 08-23-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:37 PM
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remember 315 range is in the perfect world, where acceleration, AC are not needed, traffic does not exist and passengers are all super model figures.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
Just a few miles short on making it from the Tesla Factory to LA

353 miles from the factory to "Los Angeles, CA"


The day these have a range of 400-500 miles and can recharge as fast as petrol is when I'll consider this.
That is exactly what I am thinking. Where I live, I think we have Zero supercharging stations. I do see a few teslas around, but owned by people who can afford to drive these on weekends only.

I don't want to drive one and always have range anxiety.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:24 PM
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On the flip side, no one would ask you to drive because you will have an excuse of "not enough range left"

That is what my friends who have i3 say to me when we go hang out
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:37 PM
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
On the flip side, no one would ask you to drive because you will have an excuse of "not enough range left"

That is what my friends who have i3 say to me when we go hang out
I would tell them that I can wait for it to charge haha. I don't think they sell the i3 here in Canada. Or maybe just never seen one because iirc it is on the bmw Canada website.

Like mizouse said though, if I could charge my car as readily and quickly as gasoline, I would be ALL over it. On the other hand, hydrogen fueled cars is something I think is viable. Get amazing fuel economy, clean to zero emissions and can be refueled as fast as regular gas.
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:20 PM
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So Tesla's "big announcement" today was that all their cars will be capable of self-driving


Tesla Press Release

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla...iving-hardware

All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

The Tesla Team

October 19, 2016

Self-driving vehicles will play a crucial role in improving transportation safety and accelerating the world’s transition to a sustainable future. Full autonomy will enable a Tesla to be substantially safer than a human driver, lower the financial cost of transportation for those who own a car and provide low-cost on-demand mobility for those who do not.

We are excited to announce that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. Eight surround cameras provide 360 degree visibility around the car at up to 250 meters of range. Twelve updated ultrasonic sensors complement this vision, allowing for detection of both hard and soft objects at nearly twice the distance of the prior system. A forward-facing radar with enhanced processing provides additional data about the world on a redundant wavelength, capable of seeing through heavy rain, fog, dust and even the car ahead.

To make sense of all of this data, a new onboard computer with more than 40 times the computing power of the previous generation runs the new Tesla-developed neural net for vision, sonar and radar processing software. Together, this system provides a view of the world that a driver alone cannot access, seeing in every direction simultaneously and on wavelengths that go far beyond the human senses.

Model S and Model X vehicles with this new hardware are already in production, and customers can purchase one today.

Before activating the features enabled by the new hardware, we will further calibrate the system using millions of miles of real-world driving to ensure significant improvements to safety and convenience. While this is occurring, Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. As these features are robustly validated we will enable them over the air, together with a rapidly expanding set of entirely new features. As always, our over-the-air software updates will keep customers at the forefront of technology and continue to make every Tesla, including those equipped with first-generation Autopilot and earlier cars, more capable over time.

Last edited by AZuser; 10-19-2016 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:40 PM
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Philosophical question: If Teslas are in "shadow mode" logging the behaviors of human drivers, are they not preventing accidents that they could be preventing with autopilot? If they can prevent accidents with autopilot, should they not do it.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
Philosophical question: If Teslas are in "shadow mode" logging the behaviors of human drivers, are they not preventing accidents that they could be preventing with autopilot? If they can prevent accidents with autopilot, should they not do it.
I hope it can work like that, where the driver is doing their regular thing, not on auto-pilot, but if the system senses an accident about to happen, it steps in to stop it. That would be pretty cool.
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Old 11-18-2016, 02:24 PM
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oh, woops! sorry guys! enjoy the free fill-ups while you can.

Tesla buyers will soon have to pay for "filling up" at the company's roadside superchargers.



Tesla?s New Feature? Charging for ?Fill-Ups? - Barron's
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:42 PM
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Hmm, if it's like $5 or less to fill up from empty, I don't see it being a big deal. But it'll probably be more.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
Hmm, if it's like $5 or less to fill up from empty, I don't see it being a big deal. But it'll probably be more.
Right. It's going to be to everyone's advantage to charge at home. Tesla can charge a ridiculous upcharge at their stations.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:14 AM
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The days of free supercharging are coming to an end for new Tesla buyers. This week, the company detailed the new fee structure for its rapid charging stations. According to Tesla, the move is tied to its goal of expanding the supercharger network itself.

"Tesla Model S and Model X cars ordered after Jan. 15, 2017, will receive 400 kWh (kilowatt-hours) of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) annually on the anniversary of their delivery," Tesla said in a blog post. "We carefully considered current Supercharger usage and found that 400 kWh covers the annual long-distance driving needs of the majority of our owners. As a result, most owners will continue to enjoy the benefits of Supercharging on road trips at no additional cost."

This applies to new buyers of Tesla vehicles only. Customers who purchased vehicles before this date will not be subject to the extra fees. Tesla owners have enjoyed free use of Tesla charging stations up till now.Tesla Motors is following up on its promise to make drivers pay if they leave vehicles at a Supercharger station long after they are fully charged.In a blog post published this month, the company said ...

"If customers travel beyond their annual credit, they will be charged a small fee to Supercharge," the company said in a blog post. "In North America, pricing is fixed within each state or province; overseas, pricing is fixed within each country. In most regions, Tesla owners will pay per kWh as it’s the fairest way to pay for the exact energy used. However, due to local regulations, in several regions we will charge per minute of usage instead, though we are actively working with regulators to update the rules."
New Tesla buyers should not expect gasoline-level expenditures. Once a customer exceeds his or her annual limit and pricing kicks in, a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles will still cost only about $15, while a cross-country jaunt should top out at $120, according to Tesla.
/green-cars/tesla-supercharger-use-wont-be-completely-free-new-buyers-now#ixzz4Vqb31TiZ
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Old 01-16-2017, 03:34 PM
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That's not bad at all. Most gasoline cars will take $40 or more to go from SF to LA, one way. Roughly 1,000 complimentary miles worth of range is enough to get you there and back, and then some.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:52 AM
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-...sla-1490702095

Tesla Gets Backing of Chinese Internet Giant Tencent

China’s most valuable company, buys 5% stake in Elon Musk’s electric-vehicle maker ahead of ambitious launch of $35,000 sedan

March 28, 2017

Tencent Holdings Ltd. bought a 5% stake in Tesla Inc., giving the backing of China’s most valuable company to the Silicon Valley electric-vehicle maker as it prepares to launch its first car aimed at the mass market.

The $1.8 billion Tencent paid makes it Tesla’s fifth-largest shareholder, according to data from S&P Capital IQ. It marks a vote of confidence in Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk at a time when he faces questions about whether he can meet his ambitious goals of delivering the $35,000 Model 3 sedan on time and at the scale he has projected.

Tencent acquired the stake through a combination of a stock offering by Tesla and shares purchased on the open market, according to a filing Tuesday. Tencent’s stake is passive, meaning the company likely isn’t seeking board seats or agitating for change.

A Tencent spokeswoman called Tesla ”a global pioneer at the forefront of new technologies.” Tencent’s success comes from backing entrepreneurs like Mr. Musk, who combine vision, ambition and execution, the spokesperson said.

Mr. Musk, who is also chairman, remains Tesla’s largest shareholder with a little more than 20% of the company. Tesla declined to comment.

Shares of Tesla, which have surged 26% this year, rose 2.9% in morning trading in New York.

Earlier this month, Tesla moved to strengthen its fragile balance sheet amid a risky ramp-up in production of the Model 3. At the time, it said it was offering $250 million in common stock and $750 million in convertible notes.

The sedan is part of Mr. Musk’s bet to transform Tesla from a luxury car maker into a company that offers a mass-market electric vehicle, along with solar panels to generate energy to power its vehicles, and batteries to store that power at home and offices.

The Silicon Valley company—which is unprofitable and deeply indebted—plans to begin Model 3 production in July, and ramp up to 5,000 vehicles a week in the fourth quarter. But the cost has been high, and Tesla needs a cushion to move ahead in the capital-intensive auto industry. The company has more than $2 billion of debt due in 2018—a year during which it aims to sell significantly more vehicles than last year. It also plans to continue investing heavily in overhead and product creation in coming years.

Tesla recently closed its $2.6 billion acquisition of SolarCity, combining Mr. Musk’s electric-car and solar-energy companies, and dropped “Motors” from its name as it signals it is more than just a car company.

Having a powerful friend in China could help Tesla as it eyes further global expansion.

The auto maker’s revenue in China rose to $1.07 billion last year from $319 million in 2015—a faster rate of growth than in the U.S., where sales about doubled to $4.2 billion in the same period. China made up 15% of Tesla’s $7 billion in revenue last year, compared with about 8% in 2015. The U.S. accounted for 60% of the company’s 2016 revenue, up from 48% in 2015.


Tencent’s investment in Tesla marks the highest-profile foray into the autos sector for the Chinese internet giant. Big Chinese tech companies have backed a wave of green-car startups in the country recently, with Tencent supporting smaller outfits such as NextEV and Future Mobility Corp.

Tencent, while little known outside China, is the world’s largest game publisher by revenue. It owns “League of Legends” developer Riot Games Inc. and last year teamed up with Chinese investors in an $8.6 billion acquisition of Supercell Oy, the Finnish maker of “Clash of Clans.”

Within China, the Shenzhen-based company is known for its social-media platforms WeChat and Weixin, which together have close to 890 million monthly active users and are fixtures in Chinese daily life.


Tencent has been on a tear of late, with shares surging more than 40% over the past year, thrusting it ahead of e-commerce giant Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. and Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, the world’s biggest bank by assets.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:17 PM
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Tesla Semi Truck and a convertible Roadster?


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Old 04-28-2017, 11:41 PM
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An SUV that drives like a sports car?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/el...ory-locations/

Elon Musk teases Tesla electric semi truck, up to 4 new Gigafactory locations

Apr. 28, 2017

Elon Musk was on stage at the 2017 TED Conference in Vancouver on Friday, and he revealed some of his tunnel work and aspirations, but he also talked about a few ongoing Tesla projects he’s referenced before. The multi-CEO showed a shadowy image that gives us our first look at what his forthcoming electric Semi Truck will look like, and also let drop the suggestion that Tesla will likely announce four new global Gigafactory locations sometime this year.



The truck looks exactly like you’d expect a transport truck to look, roughly, but with a smooth continuous design between the windshield and the upper facade. There’s also headlights that resemble the ones used on existing Tesla cars, including the Model X and Model S, so it’s reasonable to expect some design continuity between Tesla’s consumer and commercial vehicles.

The truck gets more from Tesla’s existing lineup than just its looks – the CEO said on stage that it’ll be a “spry” vehicle, which can be driven like a sports car. Musk said he himself has already taken the prototype for a ride.

We’ll still have to wait until September to see the truck in its full glory, but Musk said it should be able to not only hold its own with, but also outperform current diesel-powered big rigs.

Meanwhile, Musk also said that there will be likely four new Gigafactory sites announced this year. This is also something Tesla has touched on before; the company said in its most recent earnings report that it plans to finalize locations for up to three new Gigafactory sites this year, in addition to the existing Nevada location, and the New York plant for solar technology it’s operating in partnership with Panasonic.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
An SUV that drives like a sports car?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/el...ory-locations/
For the low low price of $80,000.

The Tech has to be cheaper. Even the Model 3 has the worst interior I have ever seen from a design standpoint
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:26 PM
  #66  
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"Bigger is better". Or how Tesla sells more cars, the more it makes bigger loss

After market close today, Tesla released its financial results and shareholders letter for the first quarter 2017. Wall Street was expecting record revenue of $2.5 billion for the quarter and a loss of $0.16 per share.

The company delivered higher on revenue of $2.7 billion and missed on earnings with a loss of $1.33.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
"Bigger is better". Or how Tesla sells more cars, the more it makes bigger loss
Tesla's employing the Amazon strategy of spend spend spend to build and grow the company. They bought more expensive equipment to build the Model 3

Tesla?s big Model 3 bet rides on risky assembly line strategy

24 Apr 2017

Most automakers test a new model's production line by building vehicles with relatively cheap, prototype tools designed to be scrapped once they deliver doors that fit, body panels with the right shape and dashboards that don't have gaps or seams.

Tesla, however, is skipping that preliminary step and ordering permanent, more expensive equipment as it races to launch its Model 3 sedan by a self-imposed volume production deadline of September, Musk told investors last month.

Typically, automakers test their design with limited production using lower grade equipment that can be modified slightly to address problems. When most of the kinks are worked out, they order the final equipment.

Tesla's decision to move directly to the final tools is in part because lower grade, disposable equipment known as "soft tooling" ended up complicating the debut of the problem-plagued Model X SUV in 2015, according to a person familiar with the decision and Tesla's assembly line planning.

Working on a tight deadline, Tesla had no time to incorporate lessons learned from soft tooling before having to order the permanent production tooling, making the former's value negligible, the source said.

Tesla's spending to increase the number of chargers/charging stations ahead of Model 3 release. They'd be dumb not to.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-t...ons-1493049638

Tesla to Double Number of EV Chargers at Stations

April 24, 2017

Tesla Inc. plans to double the number of chargers for its electric cars at its stations globally, after owners complained of long wait times and crowds at popular locations.

The Silicon Valley auto maker began the year with more than 5,000 individual chargers at its 790 so-called Supercharger stations globally. The plan announced on Monday calls for increasing the number of chargers to more than 10,000 this year. The company declined to say how many additional sites would be added, while saying it would broaden locations within city centers.

Plans for the build-out come ahead of the introduction later this year of the Model 3.

Tesla's spending to develop new future models (e.g. roadster, truck, Model Y) and build more gigafactories. . . . things that can bring in more revenue and profits.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/el...ory-locations/

Elon Musk teases Tesla electric semi truck, up to 4 new Gigafactory locations

Apr 28, 2017

Elon Musk was on stage at the 2017 TED Conference in Vancouver on Friday, and he revealed some of his tunnel work and aspirations, but he also talked about a few ongoing Tesla projects he’s referenced before. The multi-CEO showed a shadowy image that gives us our first look at what his forthcoming electric Semi Truck will look like, and also let drop the suggestion that Tesla will likely announce four new global Gigafactory locations sometime this year.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-...ing-1493909658

May 4, 2017

Mr. Musk said that the future Model Y crossover, which is expected by 2019, will likely be built on a different platform than the Model 3. That means significantly more capital spending than if Tesla chose to use the same platform.

Meanwhile, Wall Street analysts covering the company have been doing a little anti-selling of their own. Analysts now project, on average, an adjusted loss of 78 cents a share for 2018, the first full year in which the Model 3 is expected to be for sale. A year ago, that consensus called for a profit of $6.51 a share.

Longer-term profit estimates are headed lower as well. Consensus calls for $10.88 a share in 2020 profit; last year, that number was $17.51.
These are things Tesla investors are aware of and accept.

If amazon investors had demanded that Bezos stop spending so much, amazon wouldn't be the behemoth it is today.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
Tesla's employing the Amazon strategy of spend spend spend to build and grow the company. They bought more expensive equipment to build the Model 3
I hope that you don't imply that amazon is doing it right. It is another aberration that will lead to the collapse of the techno-bubble. It is another money pit.

Amazon.com PE Ratio (TTM):

175.75 for May 5, 2017

Meaning that if you own $10 000 of it, the annual income would be $56.89

Nobody in his right mind should own Amazon shares long term. The opportunity of speculation has sailed. Tesla has the same non-viability and is scheduled to fail.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:02 PM
  #69  
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Tesla Desperately Needs a Crossover Hit | Bloomberg

"Under Musk's leadership, Tesla has produced a series of undeniably desirable vehicles that helped it briefly become, on paper anyway, the most valuable automaker in the nation. But is has rolled these cars out in a frantic, iterative, inefficient and nonstrategic manner that shows why mainstream automakers tend to be run by "bean counters" rather than creative visionaries.

"Nothing illustrates this dynamic quite like Tesla's crossovers, the Model X and the forthcoming Model Y. Crossovers are unsexy but highly pragmatic machines that are critical to profitability in the modern car business. With Musk revealing that the Model Y will not share a platform with the mass-market Model 3 sedan, as most analysts had expected, it's becoming clear that the firm still hasn't appreciated basic logic of the crossover market. As Tesla moves into the lower-margin mass market and comes under increasing pressure to show profitability, this unexciting but important lesson will have to be learned."

[...]

"Seat-of-the-pants innovation works wonderfully for software, which enjoys strong margins and doesn't require expensive and inflexible tooling to produce each new version, but a botched or half-baked vehicle platform can kill a new model's profitability before the first one is even assembled."

Last edited by nanxun; 05-05-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nanxun View Post
Tesla Desperately Needs a Crossover Hit Bloomberg

"Under Musk's leadership, Tesla has produced a series of undeniably desirable vehicles that helped it briefly become, on paper anyway, the most valuable automaker in the nation. But is has rolled these cars out in a frantic, iterative, inefficient and nonstrategic manner that shows why mainstream automakers tend to be run by "bean counters" rather than creative visionaries.

"Nothing illustrates this dynamic quite like Tesla's crossovers, the Model X and the forthcoming Model Y. Crossovers are unsexy but highly pragmatic machines that are critical to profitability in the modern car business. With Musk revealing that the Model Y will not share a platform with the mass-market Model 3 sedan, as most analysts had expected, it's becoming clear that the firm still hasn't appreciated basic logic of the crossover market. As Tesla moves into the lower-margin mass market and comes under increasing pressure to show profitability, this unexciting but important lesson will have to be learned."

[...]

"Seat-of-the-pants innovation works wonderfully for software, which enjoys strong margins and doesn't require expensive and inflexible tooling to produce each new version, but a botched or half-baked vehicle platform can kill a new model's profitability before the first one is even assembled."
It needs a Model X clone that's a lot cheaper than the Model X.

Their cars are just too expensive right now to be taken seriously.
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I hope that you don't imply that amazon is doing it right. It is another aberration that will lead to the collapse of the techno-bubble. It is another money pit.

Amazon.com PE Ratio (TTM):

175.75 for May 5, 2017

Meaning that if you own $10 000 of it, the annual income would be $56.89

Nobody in his right mind should own Amazon shares long term. The opportunity of speculation has sailed. Tesla has the same non-viability and is scheduled to fail.
I don't disagree that on a PE basis, both stocks are expensive. But people have also made a lot of money from both companies. What will the future hold for them?
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
It needs a Model X clone that's a lot cheaper than the Model X.

Their cars are just too expensive right now to be taken seriously.
Yet Tesla is trying to build as many as they can to meet the increasing demand.

Tesla delivered a record number of cars as demand for Model X rises

Tesla delivered a record number of cars as demand for Model X rises

Apr. 3, 2017

According to Tesla's production and deliveries report for the first quarter of 2017, the company hit a new deliveries record, selling "just over" 25,000 cars in that period, a 69% increase over the same period last year.

Tesla delivered approximately 13,450 units of its Model S sedan and approximately 11,550 units of the Model X SUV. That means the Model X accounted for 46.2 percent of all cars Tesla has delivered in the quarter. For comparison, Tesla has delivered 9,500 Model X cars in the fourth quarter of 2016, which was 42.8 percent of all deliveries.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/406...emains-healthy

Tesla Model S And X: Demand In The U.S. Remains Healthy

Apr. 5.17

Tesla Model S auto sales fell in the United States by 4.5% y/y, which was perceived negatively by other analysts.

We view this data constructively, as Model S outperformed the large sedan category by 13.5 percentage points, or outperformed by a 4x factor.

Furthermore, the Model X outgrew industry comps by an 8.79x factor, or a full 70.6 percentage point differential.

As such, we believe trends in Model S/X suggests healthy demand when not viewed in isolation, and suggests volume ramp is sustainable at 25k per quarter.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/02/...-with-model-s/

Tesla's SUV demand is catching up to its sedan

04.02.17

You'd think that Tesla would sell far fewer units of its pricier, slightly frumpier-looking Model X SUV than its mainstay Model S sedan, but that's not the case these days. The electric car maker has revealed its production levels for the first quarter of 2017, and it's apparent that the gap has closed dramatically in recent months. Tesla delivered about 11,550 Model X vehicles at the start of the year, or just 1,900 shy of the 13,450 Model S cars that found owners in the same period. It's a stark contrast to a year earlier, when Tesla supplied 12,420 sedans and just 2,400 SUVs -- buyers are clearly willing to trade a bit of cash and style for some extra capacity.

The kicker: the gap might have been even narrower in ideal conditions. Tesla notes that there were "severe" Model X part shortages in the first two months of 2017, and that it just didn't have the time to ship every last example to customers in the period. To put it another way: expect a big bump in Model X numbers during the spring.

As it stands, this was still a banner quarter for Tesla. The company's rapidly increasing production goals led it to set yet another delivery record, with 69 percent more EVs trading hands versus a year earlier.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:02 AM
  #73  
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I honestly had no idea they sold that many. I think they're aiming higher, for sure, but they are essentially a BMW type company at this point.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I hope that you don't imply that amazon is doing it right. It is another aberration that will lead to the collapse of the techno-bubble. It is another money pit.

Amazon.com PE Ratio (TTM):

175.75 for May 5, 2017

Meaning that if you own $10 000 of it, the annual income would be $56.89

Nobody in his right mind should own Amazon shares long term. The opportunity of speculation has sailed. Tesla has the same non-viability and is scheduled to fail.
Warran Buffett, a long term investor, who buys and holds stock for years if not decades regrets not buying amazon

Here's one of Warren Buffett's deepest investment regrets - MarketWatch

Here's one of Warren Buffett's deepest investment regrets

May 6, 2017

Amazon Inc. may be the one that got away from legendary investor Warren Buffett -- at least for now. The Oracle of Omaha said Amazon's shares "always looked expensive," and that he underestimated the ecommerce and cloud-computing behemoth -- which boasts a market value of $446 billion, second only to Apple Inc. at $781 billion -- potential dominance.

On Saturday, during Berkshire Hathaway Inc.'s annual shareholder meeting, Buffett said he "didn't think [Bezos would] be where he is today when I looked at [Amazon]" years ago. Buffett told CNBC on Friday that Bezos's success has surprised him. "I've never seen a guy succeed in two businesses almost simultaneously that are really quite divergent in terms of customers and all the operations," he said, referring to the company's retail business and its cloud-computing operation.
Warren Buffett?s one-word answer for why he hasn?t purchased Amazon shares

Warren Buffett’s one-word answer for why he hasn’t purchased Amazon shares

May 8, 2017

When Warren Buffett was asked why he's not buying Amazon shares, the billionaire investor had a simple answer.

"Stupidity," Buffett said during an interview Monday on CNBC's "Squawk Box."

The billionaire investor also heaped additional praise on Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos after commending him over the weekend at Berkshire Hathaway's annual shareholders meeting.

"I was impressed with Jeff early. I never expected he could pull off what he did ... on the scale that it happened," Buffett said Monday. "At the same time he's shaking up the whole retail world, he's also shaking up the IT world simultaneously."

"These are powerful, powerful ideas with big potential, and he's executed," Buffett said.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:25 PM
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Tesla will do in three years what it took Porsche 10 years to do, says analyst

Tesla will do in three years what it took Porsche 10 years to do, says analyst

May 8, 2017

Tesla will do in three years what took Porsche a decade to do, an analyst said Monday.

The electric car maker is an "extreme growth story" that cannot be valued in the same way large automakers are, said Evercore ISI analyst George Galliers said in a research note.

Following the buildout of the Model 3, Tesla has the potential to achieve sustainable gross margins comparable to those of high-end German auto brands, while growing more like a rapidly advancing Chinese automaker, he said.

The rates at which Tesla's top-line metrics are growing are unrivaled, Galliers said. Tesla's unit sales grew just over 50 percent last year and automotive revenues rose 70 percent. Tesla CEO Elon Musk has said he expects this rate of growth to continue.

"To put Tesla's growth in context," Galliers said, "we note it took Porsche 10 years and four product lines to grow from" about 35,000 units to just under 100,000. And that was with four different product lines, compared with Tesla's three. "Even with only a small contribution from the more affordable Model 3, Tesla is on course to achieve similar growth in only 3 years."

At the same time, "Tesla's unadjusted gross margin of 25 percent last year is impressive by any standard," he said.

Indeed, Tesla is burning massive amounts of cash now. In the short term, Tesla is spending a lot on the Model 3.

Galliers estimated that without the Model 3-related spending, Tesla's gross margin could grow to around 30 percent, putting it roughly on par with Porsche.

After the Model 3 buildout, Galliers expects Tesla can sustain gross margins of 25 percent, which would place it above BMW and Mercedes and just below Porsche.


He added that an EBIT margin range of roughly 12 percent to 15 percent is achievable in the long term, once growth normalizes and costs begin to flatten. "In other words," he said, "Tesla has the potential to achieve margins that are double those of US peers today."
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:56 PM
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Cool

Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
I think they're aiming higher, for sure, but they are essentially a BMW type company at this point.
Hence the name of their latest model.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
Hence the name of their latest model.
^ Red text?

Musk actually wanted to call it the Model E, but since Ford's coming out with a Model E electric, Tesla was blocked from using that model name. So Model 3 it was.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...e-up/99587238/

Tesla had hoped to lure buyers into its showrooms for S-E-X.

March 24, 2017

The electric automaker's new entry-level sedan, called the Model 3, was supposed to join its upscale cousins the Model S and Model X as the Model E, CEO Elon Musk tweeted Friday.

But it's clear Musk still thinks the locker-room joke will land.

"Model 3 was going to be called Model E, for obvious dumb humor reasons, but Ford sued to block it, so now it is S3X," tweeted Musk. "Totally different "

What's more, Tesla has made noise about also producing a Model Y crossover vehicle — the Y in a thwarted S-E-X-Y line-up. Denied his E, it's clear now why Musk went with the number three, essentially a backwards E, in a line-up that otherwise sticks to letters.

In a statement emailed to USA TODAY late Friday, Ford Motor officials said in 2010 Tesla had signed a contract in which, "among other things, Tesla agreed not to register or use Model E. When Tesla later sought to register the Model E trademark, Ford insisted that Tesla abide by the parties' earlier agreement. The matter has been resolved."
Tesla drops Model E trademark, but Ford hangs on Fortune.com

Tesla drops Model E trademark, but Ford hangs on

May 07, 2014

Tesla Motors has abandoned its application with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to trademark Model E -- a name widely rumored to be used for the electric automaker's next-generation electric car.

Ford Motor Co., which filed an application to trademark Model E several months after Tesla, is sticking with it.

Ford has had an on-again, off-again relationship with the Model E name, according to U.S. Patent and Trademark Office records. The automaker filed an application in February 2000 to register the Model E name as a trademark for the "use and maintenance of motor vehicles," but it was abandoned in 2003.

In February 2001, Ford applied to register the Model E trademark for vehicles, namely electric-powered boats and recreational jet boats, electric-powered cars, carts, scooters, SUVs, trucks, buses, and vans. Ford's trademark was registered in October 2003. The company cancelled it in May 2010. Ford filed another trademark application for Model E in January 2002, regarding messages among computer users "concerning the field of motor vehicles and related goods and services." It abandoned that application in May 2006.

Ford's latest application was filed in December 2013, several months after Tesla.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
Hence the name of their latest model.
Ha. Good one. Like AZUser, I also followed that story.

What I will say is the Model 3 is going to try to be a lot of things. Musk has many times referred to the Model 3 as an A4/3 series competitor, but in reality, I think that $35,000 model is going to be somewhere below and will likely compete with the top end economy models (ie Accord, Avalon, etc). We shall see, but I think the desired customer base for Tesla is something more than even "Potential 3 series buyers"
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:52 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
I honestly had no idea they sold that many. I think they're aiming higher, for sure, but they are essentially a BMW type company at this point.
I think they are all here, I see so many every day. Model S is like the Camry of West LA lol
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthraciteAspec View Post
I think they are all here, I see so many every day. Model S is like the Camry of West LA lol
They are all over the place here, too. However, this isn't exactly a cross-section of America.
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