Tesla: Model S News

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Old 11-09-2013, 02:28 PM
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The car did great in regular IIHS and NHTSA collision tests but may have issues in some unique situations. Like the Boeing 787, any negative news gets amplified in the media.
Old 11-09-2013, 11:59 PM
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The culprit is always the high-energy-density battery packs.

They probably need to installed a self-extinguishing fire control system to go with all the fragile battery packs.
Old 11-11-2013, 10:52 AM
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http://www.nfpa.org/safety-informati...umers/vehicles

U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage.

Facts and Figures
  • Automobile fires were involved in 10% of reported U.S. fires, 6% of U.S. fire deaths.
  • On average, 17 automobile fires were reported per hour. These fires killed an average of four people every week.
  • Mechanical or electrical failures or malfunctions were factors in roughly two-thirds of the automobile fires.
  • Collisions and overturns were factors in only 4% of highway vehicle fires, but these incidents accounted for three of every five (60%) automobile fire deaths.
  • Only 2% of automobile fires began in fuel tanks or fuel lines, but these incidents caused 15% of the automobile fire deaths.
There's somewhere around 20,000 Tesla S's on the road, and this has happened 3 times. So yeah, the car probably saved his life.
Old 11-11-2013, 10:56 AM
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The way the battery pack is designed in the vehicle makes it vulnerable to road debris. It's a compromise... you don't get the option of third row seating with a bulky gas tank located in the rear or with a more square battery in the same location. It also wouldn't look as low in terms of ground clearance (inb4 SSFTSX) and height-wise.

As mentioned in previous reports, the passenger compartment is compartmentalized. There haven't been any injuries as far as I can recall.
Old 11-11-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
http://www.nfpa.org/safety-informati...umers/vehicles



There's somewhere around 20,000 Tesla S's on the road, and this has happened 3 times. So yeah, the car probably saved his life.
3 fires out of 15-20k cars of one specific model is way above the norm.

152,300 automobile fires per year takes into account all vehicles on the road.

That statistic really means nothing when comparing it to one specific vehicle line.

It's enough of a "problem" that I am sure Tesla is going to address, before it gets out of hand in terms of PR. The cars need more/re-designed "skid plates".
Old 11-11-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
It also wouldn't look as low in terms of ground clearance (inb4 SSFTSX)
Old 11-12-2013, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
3 fires out of 15-20k cars of one specific model is way above the norm.

152,300 automobile fires per year takes into account all vehicles on the road.

That statistic really means nothing when comparing it to one specific vehicle line.

It's enough of a "problem" that I am sure Tesla is going to address, before it gets out of hand in terms of PR. The cars need more/re-designed "skid plates".
Very true, especially that hundred of thousands of older Ford vehicles, which have the faulty designed cruise control that can start engine fire even when the engine has been shut off, all help to add to that automobile fire statistics.
Old 11-12-2013, 02:05 AM
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Tesla will probably address this, but until a car spontaneously combusts like Fiskers I don't think people will be to weary of buying this car because its unsafe.

Rather than creating a new skid plate which would have to be denser metal, which means its gonna be heaving, I'd probably see something more along the lines of controlling the fire, but such a solution wouldnt come out right away and can even take government intervention for safety standards for electrical cars.
Old 11-12-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by speedemon90
Tesla will probably address this, but until a car spontaneously combusts like Fiskers I don't think people will be to weary of buying this car because its unsafe.

Rather than creating a new skid plate which would have to be denser metal, which means its gonna be heaving, I'd probably see something more along the lines of controlling the fire, but such a solution wouldnt come out right away and can even take government intervention for safety standards for electrical cars.
Well, Ford Pinto vehicles didn't spontaneously burst into flames, but people sure feared buying one.

Just say'n. It's a concern for Tesla, that they will more than likely address.

It's only a matter of time before another one hits something on the road, ruptures the battery compartment, and starts a blaze again.
Old 11-12-2013, 10:57 AM
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Also keep in mind this is all quite controversial, and that being said, anything that happens here will be looked at with a magnifying glass. You don't see a headline news story every time a Ferrari or other exotic has caught fire in the past decades, for instance. And they haven't done shit to fix them.
Old 11-12-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
Also keep in mind this is all quite controversial, and that being said, anything that happens here will be looked at with a magnifying glass. You don't see a headline news story every time a Ferrari or other exotic has caught fire in the past decades, for instance. And they haven't done shit to fix them.
Pssst.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/f...-italia-recall



If Ferrari will do a recall for a handful of fires, so should Tesla.

I think they will.
Old 11-12-2013, 01:35 PM
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oh oops missed that one :p

well damn
Old 11-12-2013, 01:40 PM
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Tesla's Fires: What Are Some Potential Long-term Ramifications?

Three Tesla model S cars have caught fire in just over the past month. All of them very much seem to be caused by running over objects or being driven through walls and hitting a tree. All the drivers did not seem to have serious injuries, which says a lot about the safety of the vehicles.

It does get one to think about the long-term ramifications, especially as it relates to oversight and potential regulations from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). First it is worthwhile the review the fires and get some thoughts from an expert in the field of heat and chemical processes.

Rick Martin from Martin Thermal Engineering has a PhD in Mechanical Engineering and has investigated over 50 car fires in his career. On his blog his overview of Tesla’s car fires (and car fires in general) is “collisions and road hazards can puncture reservoirs and deform insulating materials in ways that expose these elements to each other and create conditions for fires to start. The greater the vehicle’s speed at the time of collision, the more likely it will sustain damage that compromises the protective barriers keeping fuels away from ignition sources.”

A key metric could turn out to be fires per collision

Martin goes on further to write “Unfortunately, their comparison misses two important points”:

(1) All three of the Tesla fires involved collisions, whereas the baseline rate they used to compare conventional car fires included many additional (unrelated) causation factors;

(2) By far, the largest percentage of all vehicle fires occurs in vehicles that are more than 5 years old. Most of these fires have causes rooted in inadequate maintenance, flawed service, or operator carelessness.”

He adds “The more salient electric versus gasoline vehicle comparison would be “fires per collision exceeding a certain speed differential”. Although we don’t have any actual data, we expect a comparison of collision-related fires would yield incident rates more similar for the two types of vehicles than the Tesla blog suggests.”

“So the question regarding Tesla’s Model S seems to be whether its barriers are adequate to protect its battery cells. It may still turn out that fleets of electric cars experience fewer total fires per mile driven than fleets of gasoline or diesel cars, over their respective lifetimes.”

Having regulators becoming involved would probably not be positive for Tesla

It is still very early in the life of the Model S and these incidents could be an anomaly. However since there seems to be very little regulation of electric vehicles the NHTSA may decide to become involved and at least review the incidents. Yes the car may be able to be made safer, but keep in mind that the model S received a 5 star rating overall and in every subcategory.

It may turn out that the NHTSA doesn’t require Tesla to make any changes but if it does (and this may not apply for a few years) it could impact either the cost of the vehicle or the development time for new models. One example of increased costs would be having to install a thicker metal plate underneath the car.

A more worrisome development would be having to redesign where the batteries are placed. It would take time to determine the new locations, test the new design and change the manufacturing process. This may very well not happen but it is worthwhile to monitor since the timing of new vehicles is critical the investor expectations.

A small impact is the filing of a class-action lawsuit

Last Friday a law firm announced that it had filed a class-action lawsuit against the company for misleading investors over the Model S’ fire risk. I don’t think this will have a material affect on the company but it is something that could create short-term headline risk to the shares.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjon...ramifications/

Tesla better jump on this before the NHTSA gets involved.
Old 11-12-2013, 04:42 PM
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^ Hopefully the insurance rates won't skyrocket for these kinds of cars that have a battery under the floor...
Old 11-13-2013, 01:57 PM
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Musk digs in his heels

Federal regulators haven't even begun investigatin a trio of recent battery fires related to Tesla's Model S electric car, but that isn't stopping the company's outspoken CEO from writing off the possibility of a recall.

"There's definitely not going to be a recall," Tesla chief Elon Musk said at a conference hosted by The New York Times, calling the Model S "five times less likely" to have a fire as a result of a wreck than a standard car.

"NHTSA has real problems to deal with where people die or are seriously injured. Their time is preoccupied with that, not with fictional issues created by the media."

Musk's comments come in response to three recent wrecks involving Model S EVs that caught fire after being involved in wrecks over the last month and a half.

Despite Musk's confidence, a recall decision isn't ultimately up to Tesla. If NHTSA investigates the Model S and decides that there is a defect related to the fires, the automaker will be required to issue a recall to correct any problem found.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/tesla-ch...#ixzz2kYcYabOA

I know Musk is a blow-hard, but come on now, you really want to wait for the NHTSA to force you to do it?
Old 11-19-2013, 11:29 AM
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NHTSA to investigate Tesla Fires.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has announced that it is launching a formal safety evaluation of the Tesla Model S after three examples of the electric luxury sedan were involved in fires over the course of five weeks.

The preliminary investigation, which may further harm Tesla's flagging stock, will seek to “examine the potential risks associated with undercarriage strikes on model year 2013 Tesla Model S vehicles,” the NHTSA said in a statement. Roughly 13,100 Model S sedans will be under scrutiny in the probe.

Two of the three fires occurred in the U.S. when debris struck the underside of a Model S, sparking a battery fire, while a third fire in Mexico followed a high-speed crash.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed in a blog post that the company requested that the NHTSA conduct the investigation in order to counter “false perceptions” concerning electric vehicle fire risks. However, NHTSA Administrator David Strickland said today that the request was news to him, and that the agency acted on its own to start to probe.

Will the NHTSA order a recall?

A preliminary investigation is the NHTSA’s first step in determining whether a safety defect requiring a recall is present in a model. The agency usually takes roughly six months to determine whether to upgrade an investigation into a full-blown engineering analysis, which must be performed before the government can require an automaker to conduct a recall.

It’s possible that the NHTSA could find the Model S needs more underbody shielding to protect its battery pack from roadway debris.

“While we think it is highly unlikely, if something is discovered that would result in a material improvement in occupant fire safety, we will immediately apply that change to new cars and offer it as a free retrofit to all existing cars," said Musk, who had previously aserted that the Model S would "definitely" not be recalled.

As a show of confidence in the Model S’ safety, Telsa will amend its warranty coverage to include damage incurred by fires, even if caused by driver error.

Tesla is also updating the Model S’ suspension to provide more ground clearance at highway speeds, and another software update expected to launch in January will give the driver “direct control of the air suspension ride height transitions.”
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nhtsa-to...#ixzz2l75r9Ya2

Musk continues to be a blow-hard when it comes to Tesla.
Now you got the Feds involved.

...and then you make up a story about how you "wanted" the Feds involved, after you said they didn't need to be involved?!?!?

Good luck fighting "city hall".
Old 11-19-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
"Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed in a blog post that the company requested that the NHTSA conduct the investigation in order to counter “false perceptions” concerning electric vehicle fire risks. However, NHTSA Administrator David Strickland said today that the request was news to him, and that the agency acted on its own to start to probe."
Dude. I TOTALLY sent that email. Did you check your spam folder?
Old 11-22-2013, 01:03 PM
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Top Tesla exec calls it quits

Tesla's top-ranking sales and marketing executive has left the company.
George Blankenship announced this week via his LinkedIn profile that he has resigned from his post as Vice President, Sales & Ownership Experience at Tesla. Tesla has not confirmed Blankenship's departure and still lists him as an active employee.

Blankenship's resignation was first discovered by the San Jose Mercury News.
Blankenship, 60, was an important member of the Tesla team and was responsible for establishing the company's retail network, both in North America and in global markets like Europe and Asia. Blankenship's retail approach was revolutionary for the auto industry, relying on shops in high-end locations rather than going through the typical franchise model.

Blankenship modeled Tesla's retail operations after Apple's. Blankenship oversaw Apple's retail operations until being hand picked by Tesla CEO Elon Musk in 2010.

Blankenship's LinkedIn profile lists his new position as "Director of Smiles for the Blankenship Family". No reason was given for his departure.
Blankenship's resignation comes at a rocky time for Tesla. The automaker is currently facing several lawsuits from dealer associations over its retail structure and is also battling concerns over vehicle fires in its Model S sedan. Over the last few weeks Tesla's stock has sunk from a high of $194.50 to below $121.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/top-tesl...#ixzz2lP1yfRgC
Old 11-22-2013, 07:35 PM
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Interesting to see what the stock does in the next couple weeks.
Old 11-22-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Pssst.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/f...-italia-recall



If Ferrari will do a recall for a handful of fires, so should Tesla.

I think they will.
No they wont. The ferrari had a recall because you driving the car meant it could easily catch fire. Something to do with the glue.

The Tesla only catches fire if you get into an accident that does something to the battery to ignite it. Keep in mind its not every crash and the NHTSA does intense crash testing and not a single one caught fire.

This doesnt cause for a recall. The leaf, prius and all other electrics can all have fires if hit in a certain way.
Old 11-23-2013, 12:47 PM
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Every time I see this thread at the top of this section (and recently posted in), I think, "oh no, did another one catch fire?"
The following users liked this post:
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:59 PM
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Just got some more Tesla spam in my mailbox today, perfectly timed with the first snow storm of the year:
Old 11-25-2013, 01:13 AM
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The Tesla is a weird conundrum for me. I want to hate it because its a stupid electric car and I cannot stand EV's in any way, shape or form. I also want to like the thing because let's face it; its wicked fast and sexy as hell. Still, its an EV which I absolutely can't get over. Then again, its interior is simply fantastic! But its a stupid EV with a very optimistic 200 mile range. But it does do 0-60 in 5 seconds and has instant torque. But its a stupid EV. Period.
Old 11-25-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by speedemon90
No they wont. The ferrari had a recall because you driving the car meant it could easily catch fire. Something to do with the glue.

The Tesla only catches fire if you get into an accident that does something to the battery to ignite it. Keep in mind its not every crash and the NHTSA does intense crash testing and not a single one caught fire.

This doesnt cause for a recall. The leaf, prius and all other electrics can all have fires if hit in a certain way.
3 fires out of 12-15K are not good numbers.
Hence why the NHTSA is looking into it.

It's not the one crash that is of concern, it's penetration of the battery compartment causing a fire that is the concern.

As for the Leaf: 35,000 sold, ZERO fires.
Old 11-26-2013, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
As for the Leaf: 35,000 sold, ZERO fires.
.... that we know of.....

It is very difficult to prove a negative.
Old 11-26-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
The Tesla is a weird conundrum for me. I want to hate it because its a stupid electric car and I cannot stand EV's in any way, shape or form. I also want to like the thing because let's face it; its wicked fast and sexy as hell. Still, its an EV which I absolutely can't get over. Then again, its interior is simply fantastic! But its a stupid EV with a very optimistic 200 mile range. But it does do 0-60 in 5 seconds and has instant torque. But its a stupid EV. Period.
Did you drive one? It's more fun to drive than you might think, there's not much to hate.

The interior on the other hand I found a little lacking, other than the giant screen of course. For a car that price.
Old 12-19-2013, 10:55 AM
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Tesla home-charging unit to blame in CA garage fire?

The Orange County Fire Department (OCFD) believes a garage fire that occurred last month in Irvine, California, might have started when a Tesla-supplied wall-mounted electric vehicle charger overheated.

"The most probable cause of this fire is a high resistance connection at the wall socket or the Universal Mobile Connector from the Tesla charging system," explains the OCFD's report.

The owner of the house told the OCFD that she parked the Model S in her garage, plugged it into the charger and programmed it to start charging at midnight. She reported the fire at roughly 3 am.

The fire department has spent the past few weeks determining the exact cause of the blaze. The fire happened on November 15th but the report was only made public a couple of days ago.

A spokeswoman for Tesla says the company adamantly disagrees with the OCFD's report.

"We looked into the incident. We can say it absolutely was not the car, the battery or the charging electronics," explained the company. "A review of the car's logs showed that the battery had been charging normally, and there were no fluctuations in temperature or malfunctions within the battery or the charge electronics."

The fire caused $25,000 of damage to the garage but the no one was injured and the Model S sustained only minor damage.

Last month, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration launched a formal safety evaluation of the Model S after three examples caught fire in the United States and in Mexico over the course of five weeks.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/model-s-...#ixzz2nwNXYAjy

Tesla's MO: DENY EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME.
Old 12-19-2013, 11:01 AM
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high resistance connection at the wall socket
That certainly is not Tesla's fault.
Old 12-19-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
http://www.leftlanenews.com/model-s-...#ixzz2nwNXYAjy

Tesla's MO: DENY EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME.
Just taking plays from other big tech companies.

That said...how old was the home, how was the wiring in the home, was everything up to current codes, who installed the unit, etc etc etc.
Old 12-19-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
That certainly is not Tesla's fault.
high resistance connection at the wall socket or the Universal Mobile Connector from the Tesla charging system
It's uncertain.

It is Tesla's unit, and this isn't the first time a Tesla has caught fire in a garage.
Old 12-19-2013, 11:56 AM
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Oooh.. interesting.
Old 01-15-2014, 04:14 PM
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Tesla recalls 29,000 vehicle chargers over fire risk

Tesla Motor has voluntarily recalled 29,222 vehicle chargers that were delivered with select 2013 Model S sedans.

A bulletin published the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) explains that Tesla's 240-volt NEMA 14-50 Universal Mobile Connector can overheat and catch fire if it is defective or not installed properly. Tesla says it has been aware of the condition for a few months but refuses to classify it as a safety issue, adding that only 2.7 percent of its chargers are defective and that they have not caused any injuries.

The California-based automaker will notify owners of affected chargers by mail. It will send out a new charging adapter equipped with a thermal fuse and provide an over-the-air software update that will allow the Model S' on-board charging system to automatically reduce the charging current by 25 percent if it detects a problem. The fix will reduce the temperature of the charger and its cord if the current suddenly increases and eliminate the risk of a fire.

In a statement, Tesla explained sending out a new charger is not necessary but it is taking the costly measure to make sure customers don't lose confidence in its products.

The problem first became public when a home-charging device caught fire in Orange County, California, and caused $25,000 of damage. Tesla's initial reaction was to adamantly refute the claims that the problem came from the charger.


Under Investigation

Last November, the NHTSA launched a formal safety evaluation of the Model S after three examples caught fire in the United States and in Mexico over the course of five weeks. The problem is unrelated to the charger recall, and a final report has not been made public yet.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/tesla-re...#ixzz2qVXvOhty

Wow!
Tesla's MO: Deny! Deny! Deny! Spin! Spin! Spin!
There is nothing wrong....ever!

Unbelievable
Old 01-15-2014, 04:27 PM
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kinda can't stand when companies (or people for that matter) are so adamant about never being wrong. oh well.
Old 02-14-2014, 01:42 PM
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Tesla investigates another Model S garage fire in Toronto

Tesla is reportedly investigating another vehicle fire, after a Model S appears to have ignited in a Toronto garage.

Interestingly, in this case, the owner claims the car was not plugged into the charger when the fire occurred. The Model S had been parked in the garage for only a few moments before the fire detector went off, according to a Business Insider report.

Tesla responded to the initial report, reiterating the company's argument that the Model S is the safest car on the road, statistically, and has yet to be involved in a serious injury or death from a fire or any other reason.

"Dealing with occasional fires is something that every car company has to do, as no vehicle is completely fireproof under all circumstances," the company said. "What matters is the number of such incidents per car, and it is worth noting that gasoline car companies experience an average of five to ten times more fires per car than Tesla."

Despite the reassurances, official investigators and Tesla's own team of engineers have yet to determine the cause of the fire. It was quickly extinguished, but not before causing extensive damage to the garage and a Lexus that was parked beside the Model S.

"In this particular case, we don't yet know the precise cause, but have definitively determined that it did not originate in the battery, the charging system, the adapter or the electrical receptacle, as these components were untouched by the fire," the statement adds.

The company recently recalled 29,000 charging cables over fire risk, while the NHTSA late last year opened an investigation into Model S fires to determine if there is an increased risk due to undercarriage strikes that may penetrate the batteries.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/tesla-in...#ixzz2tKLY6TdS

I guess the old mantra holds true: If you own a Tesla, don't park it or charge it in your garage.
Old 02-15-2014, 10:37 AM
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"In this particular case, we don't yet know the precise cause, but have definitively determined that it did not originate in the battery, the charging system, the adapter or the electrical receptacle, as these components were untouched by the fire," the statement adds.
something is not computing..
Old 02-15-2014, 11:05 AM
  #316  
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Originally Posted by srika
kinda can't stand when companies (or people for that matter) are so adamant about never being wrong. oh well.
Old 02-15-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
are you laughing at yourself?
Old 02-15-2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by srika
are you laughing at yourself?
nope, laughing at the pure irony of that statement.

pot, kettle, black you hypocrite
Old 02-15-2014, 11:41 AM
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actually I was talking about people like you! hehe

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong - I know I don't have all the answers -
Old 02-15-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by srika
actually I was talking about people like you! hehe

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong - I know I don't have all the answers -
again I say:



you are so full of shit (and yourself...same thing I guess)


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