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Tesla: Model III News

 
Old 10-18-2018, 07:18 PM
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:16 PM
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Tesla Model 3 dismantled: It's needlessly complicated to build, says analyst


Munro & Associates says it costs $2,000 more to make than BMW i3



ANTTI KAUTONEN
Oct 18th 2018 at 11:30AM
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We're written about car dismantling specialist Munro & Associates before: Manufacturing analyst Sandy Munro takes apart cars to find out whether they print money for their makers or cost them dearly. An earlier analysis of the Tesla Model 3 saw Munro critical of an early car's fit and finish, but appreciative of its electronics. Now, in an article by Bloomberg, Sandy Munro picks apart a black Tesla Model 3, with a few key points to note.

In the article, Munro blames Tesla's inexperience with automaking for squandering away a large portion of the car's profitability margin. The main issue is with body design, said to be engineered by people with no previous experience on car development. Munro says the Model 3's body is needlessly complicated with strengthening done in places where it isn't necessary and some sections crafted of multiple parts when a far simpler design would have sufficed, and that the weld points and rivets of the car's design make it unsuitable for heavy automation. As a result, the Model 3 costs some $2,000 more to build than a similarly priced BMW i3, says Munro.

The bottom of the Model 3 has a steel and aluminum frame, while the car's floor-mounted battery would already add stiffness to the structure by itself — meaning the Model 3 is, in Munro's view, heavier and more expensive without a distinct benefit. Another thing is the trunk well, which is made of many small sections that have been riveted and welded together, while other carmakers use a one-piece or stamped solution. Both of these things take time and money, and stand as testament of Tesla "learning the mistakes everyone else made years ago," as Munro says.

Reportedly, Munro sent Tesla a list of 227 suggested improvements, free of charge. Bloomberg says Tesla's response was that the company has already refined its production processes after this car was built.

Munro says the fully loaded Model 3 has a chance of an overall 30 percent gross profit margin, and that the lower-end cars stand at 10 percent. The particular Model 3 addressed in the Bloomberg article is a $50,000 car, with Munro estimating its total assembly cost at $34,700 — logistics and labor costs not included, and the estimate based on plant efficiency comparable to an average Toyota or GM plant. Munro hasn't been able to visit the Fremont manufacturing facility, so the estimated profitability remains an estimate.

The fact that Tesla employs 10,000 workers at the same factory where Toyota and GM sufficed with 4,400 is also mentioned. "There's no way you need 10,000 people even with three shifts and with a lot of work done in house," Munro says.

Still, he lauds the cars' advanced electric motor design, calling it a "game changer" that everyone should be benchmarking. In Munro's view, consistent profits are not unattainable for Tesla if the right, experienced people are hired to oversee the manufacturing process.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:37 AM
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Musk fails to mention that the Model III's fed tax rebate is going away without a legislative fix.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:43 AM
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It still blows my mind how expensive these are and how many of them I see on the road. I don't remember ever regularly seeing so many $100k+ cars on the road.

The Model 3 is a marketing gimmick at its finest. The ones that any reasonable person would actually buy are well into the $50k+ range. Ain't no one buying the cheap one.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:09 PM
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^ Even at 50K+, they are selling like hot cakes. I seriously dont know where all these ppl come from
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:06 PM
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The long-promised $35,000 Tesla Model 3 won't appear on the automaker's menu until sometime in 2019, but until then Tesla hopes that a midrange version will satisfy those who don't want to spend on one of the more expensive flavors. Elon Musk announced an all-new $45,000 variant of the Model 3 in a tweet this week, a version that will offer a range of 260 miles.

The midrange model is basically a long-range model with fewer cells in its battery pack, offering slightly slower acceleration and a lower top speed compared to the long-range model: a 0-60 mph sprint takes 5.6 seconds instead of 4.5 seconds, and top speed is 125 mph instead of 145. Not huge losses overall -- the 50-mile drop in range is the main tradeoff.

"As Model 3 production and sales continue to grow rapidly, we’ve achieved a steady volume in manufacturing capacity, allowing us to diversify our product offering to even more customers," Tesla said in a statement. "Our new Mid-Range Battery is being introduced this week in the U.S. and Canada to better meet the varying range needs of the many customers eager to own Model 3, and our delivery estimate for customers who have ordered the Standard Battery is 4-6 months."


The mid-range model is advertised as starting at $31,000 after state and federal tax credits and gas savings, which is an interesting way to display pricing on an ordering site.
The mid-range model is one of three main versions of the Model 3 that the automaker is expected to eventually offer -- short, mid and long; Tesla has favored offering the more expensive versions first for financial reasons.

Aside from adding a new version of the Model 3 to the lineup, Tesla also subtracted one: The long-range, rear-wheel-drive flavor is going away but is still available "for another week or so," according to Elon Musk. This was a $49,000 version of the Model 3, which was paired with the premium package.

The announcement of the midrange model came with no early warning or indication that this model was being added to the lineup, catching Tesla watchers by surprise. It's not clear if this timetable for the debut of the midrange model was originally planned by Tesla, or if the timing was pushed up due to other factors such as gaining orders ahead of the halving of the $7,500 federal tax credit later this year. Tesla announced a few weeks ago that customers had to order cars by Oct. 15 of this year to qualify for the full $7,500 credit.


Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/green-c...#ixzz5UPCa3j4z
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:25 PM
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So $45k for just the car and an additional $20k in options...so $65k? You can buy a lot of really nice cars for $65k...just saying.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
So $45k for just the car and an additional $20k in options...so $65k? You can buy a lot of really nice cars for $65k...just saying.
And the interior is somewhere between a $30,000 Accord and a $35,000 Audi
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
And the interior is somewhere between a $30,000 Accord and a $35,000 Audi
Agree on the materials (seats, plastic, panels, fit/finish,...), but the infotainment system on the 3 is far superior to any other manufacturer at that price point and is on par with the high end systems in BMW and MB.

Munro seems to have some grievance with Tesla.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...tened-lawsuit/

He does give praise but is also very quick to say how incompetent Tesla is on certain area's of engineering (mostly mechanical).
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:39 PM
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Teslas will be more reliable and easier to use when they're owned by Volkswagen
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:41 AM
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I don't hate the idea of this car (or EV's in general), at least as much as I used to, but the biggest hurdle is still going to be price and range. If I could get a Model 3 for around $30k nicely equipped (and without the tax rebate shenanigans) then I could see myself getting one. But the real cost of these cars is way beyond what I'd even consider spending for what you get. If they really want their EV's to become profitable they are going to have to figure out a way to make them as good as they have been but for significantly less $$$.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:45 AM
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I'm surprised that there aren't more Volt-style vehicles. The 'generator' system seems like a winner in concept. No range issues & very low fuel usage.
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2 View Post
I'm surprised that there aren't more Volt-style vehicles. The 'generator' system seems like a winner in concept. No range issues & very low fuel usage.
Very costly to build and the demand isn't that big. Meaning; it is a niche market for gadget lovers. And while it is expensive, it doesn't have some expected luxo-cachet at that price.

And they don't deliver, really:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ca...el-charge.html

BP said that there are 'proved' 50+ years of oil supply. And 2-3 times this of available supply.

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Old 11-02-2018, 07:24 PM
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To me the main issue with current EV is not even the range anxiety...it's fueling time.

Gasoline cars can fuel up in 30 seconds or at most 1-2 minutes and then you're immediately on the way. EV? Takes much much longer to fuel up the batteries. Though supercharging makes it better at 20-30min to get up to 80%, I've read that it is not ideal to frequently use supercharging due to battery longevity issues...
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Old 11-02-2018, 08:29 PM
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The people I know with Teslas say the charging time isn’t that big a deal on trips. But they aren’t doing marathon drives either. EVs are great for local and commuting.

My wife and I did DC to Denver in two days. 900 miles the first day and 800 the second. There’s no way we could have done that with an EV because of the charging time.

The question is if that’s good or bad. If an EV makes us drive less per day and make more stops on a vacation does that make it less ideal? I don’t know.

Im not ready to go pure EV yet for anything used for road trips.

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Old 11-07-2018, 11:43 AM
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I still see EV primary market to be urban and suburban area's with households still having a ICE vehicle as well.
Long journeys still being mostly ICE vehicles, unless supercaps cap be harnessed to do quick recharge.
Personally I can see getting a EV when I retire in about a decade to replace my 05 TL.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:33 PM
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EV is good if you have a 2nd car or as the 2nd car.

Imagine if you have an important meeting/Final exam/first date with a hot girl and you only have 20 minutes to get there, then you realized you forgot to charge the car the night before. It would be too late to call Uber cuz it will take time.

That does not sound unlikely at all.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:45 AM
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https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...bility-issues/

Tesla Model 3 Loses CR Recommendation Over Reliability Issues

Owners report problems with paint, trim, and electronics in Consumer Reports' survey

February 21, 2019

Consumer Reports can no longer recommend the newest Tesla—the Model 3 electric sedan—because members say they’ve identified a number of problems with their cars, including issues with its body hardware, as well as paint and trim. CR members reported these results in our annual reliability survey, which includes data on about 470,000 vehicles.

The Model 3 is a critical car for Tesla. It’s the automaker’s first attempt at a true mass-market electric vehicle (EV), and its long, bumpy launch into the consumer market starting in late 2017 was greeted by EV enthusiasts with a mixture of anticipation and frustration. The Model 3 rollout was plagued by numerous production delays and extraordinarily long wait times for customers who put down orders more than a year before delivery. Yet the small sports sedan has been received well by its owners, getting top marks in CR’s most recent owner satisfaction survey. It has also largely lived up to its promise as a highly competitive sports sedan, earning a respectable road-test score, which puts it not far behind the Audi A4 and BMW 3 Series.

But reliability has been a weak spot for Tesla. According to our survey results, problems with the suspension, especially with the 2017 model year, have been an issue for the Model S luxury sedan, while hardware problems—especially concerning its unique falcon-wing doors—have plagued the Model X SUV (neither is currently recommended by CR). And now our latest survey data has surfaced numerous problems reported by Model 3 owners as well, which is why CR has removed its recommendation for the vehicle.

“While Teslas perform well in Consumer Reports’ road tests and have excellent owner satisfaction, their reliability has not been consistent, according to our members, which has resulted in changes to their recommended status,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports.

Tesla currently holds the top spot on our list of brands that satisfy owners the most, based on their new vehicle lineup.

“In most cases, reliability issues will undermine satisfaction,” Fisher adds. “But when a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues. We’ve seen this with other vehicles such as the Jeep Wrangler and Chevrolet Corvette.”


Tesla’s Response

A Tesla spokesperson said the automaker has already made “significant improvements” to correct the issues that Model 3 owners raised with CR. “The vast majority of these issues have already been corrected through design and manufacturing improvements, and we are already seeing a significant improvement in our field data,” the spokesperson wrote in an emailed statement to CR. “We take feedback from our customers very seriously and quickly implement improvements any time we hear about issues.”


How CR Measures Reliability

CR gathers reliability data through an online questionnaire sent out each spring to members. The survey asks about any problems these members may have had within the previous 12 months with 17 aspects of their vehicles, including major systems such as the suspension and electrical system, as well as fit and finish issues such as paint and trim.

For the past few years, CR has been going back to car owners who did not answer the initial survey to gather additional information, and to include a greater number of the newest vehicles. These later responses have been incorporated into the ratings found in our annual April autos issue.

With the new data, CR’s sample size of 2018 Model 3s nearly doubled, bringing the total number of Model 3s involved to more than 500. These latest survey responses contained a relatively high number of reliability complaints.


What the Survey Found

Model 3 owners in our spring survey sample reported some body hardware and in-car electronics problems, such as the screen freezing, which we have seen with other Tesla models. The latest survey data also shows complaints about paint and trim issues. In addition, some members reported that the Model 3’s sole display screen acted strangely.

“The touch screen would intermittently begin acting as if someone was touching it rapidly at many different points,” one member wrote in. “This fault would cause music to play, volume to increase to maximum, and would rescale and pan the map in the navigation system.”

Some owners also complained about glass defects, including cracks in the rear window, in their survey responses.

In fact, CR experienced similar problems with its own Model 3. Earlier this year, our test vehicle developed a large crack in its massive rear window during a cold spell when it was parked outside.

When the Model 3 first came out in 2017, Consumer Reports gave it an average predicted reliability score based on the survey results at the time about the Model S because the two shared much of the same technology. The car maintained its average score for predicted reliability in October 2018 based on the experiences of Model 3 owners who completed our spring survey. The new survey data shows that the car has dropped from average to below-average reliability.

Tesla’s other models have suffered from below-average reliability as well, Fisher said. The Model S sedan has had an inconsistent history, being above average, average, and below average, with each downward move following in the wake of a hardware change made by Tesla. CR members report that they have the most trouble with loose trim, frozen or blank screen display, and suspension in 2017 models.

The Tesla Model S lost CR’s recommendation in October 2018 largely because of suspension problems. Tesla made air suspension and all-wheel drive standard in its 2017 Model S.

The Model X SUV has always had below-average reliability through its lifespan, with CR members reporting problems mostly with its hardware, and with its falcon-wing doors in particular. It has never earned a CR recommendation.

By contrast, CR members have reported few problems with Tesla’s unique electric powertrains, which may be due in part to their relative simplicity when compared with traditional internal-combustion engines.


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Old 02-28-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by biker View Post
The long-promised $35,000 Tesla Model 3 won't appear on the automaker's menu until sometime in 2019, but until then Tesla hopes that a midrange version will satisfy those who don't want to spend on one of the more expensive flavors. Elon Musk announced an all-new $45,000 variant of the Model 3 in a tweet this week, a version that will offer a range of 260 miles.

. . . .

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/green-c...#ixzz5UPCa3j4z
$35,000 Model 3 available for order today.

Delivery in 2-4 weeks

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/tesl...s-website.html

Tesla launches long-awaited standard Model 3 starting at $35,000

Electric carmaker Tesla is finally launching its long-awaited standard Model 3 starting at $35,000 and shifting all sales online, the company said.

The company’s shares were halted, and Tesla suspended all orders on its website ahead of Thursday’s news. It also redirected users to a page teasing a mystery announcement CEO Elon Musk promised to reveal at 5 p.m. ET.

The base model of the Model 3 will have 220 miles of range, a top speed of 130 miles-per-hour and accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds, the company said.

“You can now buy a Tesla in North America via your phone in about 1 minute, and that capability will soon be extended worldwide,” the company said, adding that it is also allowing customers to try out the car before buying. It’s offering full refunds if a car is returned within seven days or 1,000 miles.

Tesla has been promising a $35,000 version of the Model 3 ever since the automaker revealed the mid-size sedan in 2016. But it’s prioritized the production of more expensive versions of the car in order to keep profit margins high. Musk has defended the decision by saying that making lower-priced versions was unprofitable and would cause Tesla to “die.”
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:11 PM
  #460  
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Just about 3 years ago (April 2016) is when Tesla announced plans for producing the Model 3 at a price-point of $35k (after tax credits?) ...

Now they're delivering what they promised, but with a 2-4 week wait and questionable build quality .....
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:16 PM
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I quickly glanced what is included in the $35k Model 3 ... It seems they tried really hard to meet the $35k MSRP...
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:48 PM
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Wtf.. only way to get 35k is for the car to be black and have those horrendous looking 18” aero wheels
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
I quickly glanced what is included in the $35k Model 3 ... It seems they tried really hard to meet the $35k MSRP...
lol. Yea. The $2000 upgrade to the 37K “Standard Range Plus” with the Partial Premium interior seems worth it


California offers a $2500 incentive too.
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
Wtf.. only way to get 35k is for the car to be black and have those horrendous looking 18” aero wheels
That is actually OK.... the 18" wheels can be converted into a pretty sporty looking wheel just have the plastic piece removed. but supposedly you will lose some range

it is pretty annoying to see the advertised the "after saving" price and monthly payment. It is a $35k car... not a $25k car. Trying too hard.

It seems they dont offer any lease program for the $35k trim.
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
I quickly glanced what is included in the $35k Model 3 ... It seems they tried really hard to meet the $35k MSRP...
Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
Wtf.. only way to get 35k is for the car to be black and have those horrendous looking 18” aero wheels

Maybe that's the goal. Make the $35K model so cheap, bare bones, and with very limited available options that very very few people would want to buy it means Tesla gets to sell higher priced and more profitable versions of Model 3 instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if $35K version is break even or a slight loss leader... at least until manufacturing gets more automated and they can cut more costs. They laid off 7% work force last month. Now they're closing their retail stores and laying off those and other workers.

https://www.businessinsider.sg/tesla...loyees-2019-2/

More layoffs expected at Tesla as the company shutters most of its retail stores

February 28, 2019

In a surprise announcement on Thursday, Tesla said it was closing “many” of its 378 retail stores around the world as it shifts to an online-only sales model.

That will mean another round of layoffs at the electric automaker like affected some 7% of its workforce in January in a bid to cut costs following its production ramp for the Model 3.

Tesla did not respond to questions from Business Insider about how many stores will be closing, or how many employees might be affected.

“Shifting all sales online, combined with other ongoing cost efficiencies, will enable us to lower all vehicle prices by about 6% on average, allowing us to achieve the $35,000 Model 3 price point earlier than we expected,” the company said in a blog post.

“Over the next few months, we will be winding down many of our stores, with a small number of stores in high-traffic locations remaining as galleries, showcases and Tesla information centers. The important thing for customers in the United States to understand is that, with online sales, anyone in any state can quickly and easily buy a Tesla.”

On a conference call with reporters and analysts, Musk said the closings were the only way to keep costs down.

“We will be closing some stores and there will be a reduction in head count as a result,” he said. “There’s no other way for us to achieve the savings required.”
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
That is actually OK.... the 18" wheels can be converted into a pretty sporty looking wheel just have the plastic piece removed. but supposedly you will lose some range
ohh you’re right. Not bad.







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Old 03-01-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
Maybe that's the goal. Make the $35K model so cheap, bare bones, and with very limited available options that very very few people would want to buy it means Tesla gets to sell higher priced and more profitable versions of Model 3 instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if $35K version is break even or a slight loss leader... at least until manufacturing gets more automated and they can cut more costs. They laid off 7% work force last month. Now they're closing their retail stores and laying off those and other workers.

https://www.businessinsider.sg/tesla...loyees-2019-2/

I hope everyone buys the 35k trim and Tesla will be so pissed
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