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Old 02-13-2003, 07:23 PM
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Subaru: Impreza News

A Carmaker Who Still "Gets It"

".... It's a car intended to go racing and is, therefore, stripped of luxuries such as a sound system of any kind, air conditioning, power windows, trunk trim, airbags, underbody coating, and other things - all in the name of weight reduction ..... The hood and roof metal are thinner, and so is the car's glass. It has a quicker steering ratio....... (it has) a rigidly stiff ride that forces an involuntary exhalation from its passengers over every bump....."


http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0303_subaruwrx/
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:22 PM
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eh...i dont think so...ill want at least a cd player
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:30 PM
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With the 3 liter in the new STi, who needs that?
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Old 02-17-2003, 10:32 PM
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that is the longest fucking name!

1."And what do you drive?"
2. "A new Subaru Impreza WRX STi Type RA Spec C."
1. A Whah?
2. It's a Subaru.
3. Oh...so is it an Outback?
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Zoot
that is the longest fucking name!

1."And what do you drive?"
2. "A new Subaru Impreza WRX STi Type RA Spec C."
1. A Whah?
2. It's a Subaru.
3. Oh...so is it an Outback?
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Old 02-27-2003, 07:47 PM
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Subaru Impreza WRX/STi News **Spec C Type RA-R Special Edition (page 11)**

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Old 05-01-2003, 05:25 PM
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300HP '04 WRX Sti Performance Test

MotorTrend tested the 04 WRX and it ends up it is slower than the 03 Evo. It also stops worse than the Evo.

WRX= 2.5 liter 300 HP
Evo= 2 liter 271 HP

0-60

WRX= 4.87
Evo= 4.59

1/4

WRX= 13.23 @ 104.6 mph
Evo= 13.08 @ 105.1 mph

60-0

WRX= 111
Evo= 106

Slalom

WRX= 69.1 mph
Evo= 71.4

The article is scanned here:

http://24.221.29.240/04WRX/MotorTrend_June03/04%20wrx/
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:33 PM
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And i would still take a STi over an evo any day of the week. I personally just think the EVOs are ugly squashed little deathtraps.
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:33 PM
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Holy Moly, 13.08 for the Evo. That's C5 territory and it's totally up to the driver! That thing is...FAST!
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by sarlacc23
And i would still take a STi over an evo any day of the week. I personally just think the EVOs are ugly squashed little deathtraps.

True, but most prospective buyers are looking at the numbers when shopping for these 2.
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:39 PM
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sad but true gav, sad but true
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by sarlacc23
sad but true gav, sad but true
True it's true, but why is it sad?
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Old 05-01-2003, 06:07 PM
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ive never ever seen 13.0 for the evo.. it wont run 13.0 mid 13s yeah thats it.. the sti 13.2 i i believe...
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Old 05-01-2003, 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by gavriil
True it's true, but why is it sad?
I just think the evo is way too overpowered for the street punks that will buy it. Those that track the car, thats cool. The only good thing is the price will hopefully deter the idiots.

That and the car just doesnt do anything for me. Where as the STi excites the hell out of me.
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Old 05-01-2003, 07:26 PM
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these 2 cars are priced so out of the way of street punks.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:11 PM
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you have to remember...this is one independent test. The driver may have skewed data one way or the other...it seems they are pretty damn close.

From what I heard, the STI was suppose to blow the doors off the EVO...what happened?
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by bigman
these 2 cars are priced so out of the way of street punks.
Agreed. You should worry more about the SRT-4 than these two as far as street punks.

Anyway, the Mitsu is ugly, and looks like a cheep car. The Subaru looks like a race preped rally vehicle. It looks more solid, and sporty. It will outsell the Evo.
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Old 05-02-2003, 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Red Nj-s
Agreed. You should worry more about the SRT-4 than these two as far as street punks.
very true

Originally posted by Red Nj-s
Anyway, the Mitsu is ugly, and looks like a cheep car. The Subaru looks like a race preped rally vehicle. It looks more solid, and sporty. It will outsell the Evo.
I personally like the LanEvo older generations like the Evo IV, V, and VI. This Evo is not my thing and definitely not the USDM version. I still like the first WRX styling than the 04 one.
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Old 05-02-2003, 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Red Nj-s
Agreed. You should worry more about the SRT-4 than these two as far as street punks.
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Old 05-02-2003, 01:36 AM
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these cars are geared towards kids 1st year out of college that can afford mods without getting a loan from the bank

cant wait till i graduate, in 2 years
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Old 05-02-2003, 01:02 PM
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read in this weeks autoweek. The STI is faster, but the Evo does stop faster, the Evo ran a 14.01 while the STI ran a 13.6X.


and also, they are both rated at the same weight.


in their test the evo stopped in 100 ft (fastest stop they've ever tested) while the WRX did it in 114 ft.

Also, the evo was the fastest they've tested in the slalom while the WRX was the 2nd fastest.


My #'s may not be right, but i'm 99.9% sure they are, i'm just going from what I read last night.
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Old 05-02-2003, 01:43 PM
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i doubt numbers are the deciding factor for most buyers, some sure, but i think each company has its following. most of the current wrx owners will lean towards the sti no matter what the mags say, same goes for dsm owners with the evo. in real life, i doubt you'll see too many stock evos walking past a stock sti on the streets, just not going to happen. american mags really know how to screw up a review sometimes and accuracy seems to take a back burner as long as it sells.
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Old 05-02-2003, 02:06 PM
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The STI was also had fewer miles on the car.
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Old 05-03-2003, 01:40 AM
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DAMN I had no idea the EVO's were that fast!!!
I thought they would be running like 13.6-13.8 @ 102-103. I am very impressed
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Old 05-03-2003, 05:40 PM
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Guys read what the article says:

Although we tested both with the same driver and timing gear, we believe the surface on which we tested the EVO to be slightly gripier. This wont affect acceleration but would give the Mitsu a handling and breaking advantage..

Also our STi was a barely broken-in pre-production model. So although those numbers are highly representative, they are not 100% like-kind. A pure apples to apples comparo is in the works.



What I think is this:

MotorTrend is ALWAYS pretty fast with their numbers of ALL cars they test comapred to other mags. That does not matter though. What matters is if you test 2 or more cars in a comparo with the same gear, same driver and under the same conditions. THen you look at the difference between the cars and not so much the actual numbers. I am sure very few, if any, other mags, will test any stock EVO at 13 flat (almost). But what I look at is how much slower or faster the other car/s are/were.
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Red Nj-s
Agreed. You should worry more about the SRT-4 than these two as far as street punks.

Anyway, the Mitsu is ugly, and looks like a cheep car. The Subaru looks like a race preped rally vehicle. It looks more solid, and sporty. It will outsell the Evo.
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Old 05-05-2003, 11:23 AM
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Here is why the WRX STi is not...faster than we thought it should be

The following review from Autoweek mag writes:

"The gearing is mighty low, too. You can’t get to 60 mph in second gear, for instance, and you need fifth for the quarter-mile, which will hurt the car’s performance stats some. The gearing seems set up for those short, tight rally courses."

Now WHY in GOD's name would Subaru do that? This engine has so much torque, it does not even need 6 speeds, let alone 6 super-short gear ratios! Dont get me wrong, I prefer 6 speeds, but, COME ON! I need 3rd to hit 60mph?!? I need 5th to go through 1320 feet?!?

Nevertheless, the 0-60 was a cool 4.78 secs and the 1/4 mile 13.36 secs but at a super low trap speed of 100.2 mph which I cant explain (yes traction, but still, this thing has the power for higher trap speeds). I mean the SRT-4 has been clocked at 102mph and does 100.5 mph consistently! Very interesting things are happening lately with accelration times...I mean...I know they are always subjective but, this is getting all over the map now. Here is the article:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
Rally Ready: The STi is like a WRX, only more so


By MARK VAUGHN


DON’T BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH for; wish for exactly what you want. You just might end up with one of these.

The Subaru Impreza WRX STi is surprisingly uncompromising in its pursuit of rally-car fun. Why do we say surprisingly? Because in the transition from WRC gravel to USA showrooms, you might expect Subaru (or any other carmaker) to remove a lot more performance edge than it did when making the street version of the WRX STi. Subaru didn’t.

Granted, the World Rally car’s welded-in roll bar and roof-mounted air intake are gone, and there are concessions like catalytic converters to get the car past the Feds, along with sound insulation, climate control, cupholders and a few other amenities. But overall this is as close as any car company is ever likely to come to putting the car you see on your Sega Rally screen into your garage.


2004 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STi
ON SALE: Now
BASE PRICE: $31,000 (est.)
POWERTRAIN: 2.5-liter, 300-hp, 300-lb-ft turbocharged H4; awd, six-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3263 pounds
0-60 MPH: 4.78 seconds



The WRX STi is like the WRX only more so. After Subaru released the WRX on the market two years ago to the applause of almost all who drove it, you would have thought that would have been enough. After all, the WRX was one of the greatest bang-for-the-buck exercises ever offered.

Its performance numbers rivaled cars costing twice the price. Granted, it wasn’t as refined as the BMW M3, but it came closer than by rights it should have for a sticker that started at only $23,995 (a sticker that even now is still only $24,295). So Subaru could have sat back and just clipped out those little testimonials to WRXdom that appear in all the ads.

But no, there was more to come. Where the WRX has a turbocharged intercooled 2.0-liter flat four making 227 hp and 217 lb-ft, the WRX STi has a turbocharged intercooled 2.5-liter making 300 hp and 300 lb-ft. America’s car has a half-liter more displacement for better bottom-end acceleration and can run in a milder state of tune than the Prodrive-tuned STi for other markets that complies with the official WRC displacement cap of 2.0 liters.


While the regular WRX has a responsive if somewhat rattly and at times seemingly disconnected suspension, the STi has a tighter, firmer setup that handles well but is so safe and forgiving that you feel far more daring flinging it through whatever corners you feel inclined to fling it. And instead of the WRX’s viscous-coupling center differential, the STi has a technological whammy of a Driver Controlled Center Differential (DCCD) that will have future auto mechanics marveling. All of this in a car that is expected to sticker at close to $31,000 to start.

Credit Subaru Tecnica International (the STi in STi), the high-performance and motorsports subsidiary of Subaru’s parent company Fuji Heavy Industries. STi made the rally cars Subaru used to win three World Rally Championships in a row in 1995, ’96 and ’97.

Subaru Tecnica International created the first street version of the WRX STi 10 years ago and started selling it in Europe and Japan. That car was almost as good as what you see here, with a 247-hp turbocharged 2.0-liter flat four and its own DCCD, though not as sophisticated as the one in the new STi.

Sadly, we in America saw nothing of that first STi a decade ago. Our first real hint of a Subaru performance car came in 2000 with the Impreza 2.5 RS, followed by the Impreza WRX in 2001 and now this. Ten years was a long time to wait. We could grumble and complain about being ignored, we could launch a letter-writing campaign, we could whine like a bad girlfriend about past transgressions, but rather than look to the past and say, “Why’d you treat us so mean?” let’s look to the present and say, “Gimme them keys!” And what keys they are. Yes, even the key looks racy. It resembles one of those emergency shutoff keys stuck into the outsides of race cars. It’s just a sign of things to come, we thought.

The interior likewise hints at this car’s rally-racing roots. There is no radio, for instance, the idea being to save weight. Ditto the lack of floormats and the super-thin glass in the rear window. The thin rear glass makes sense, but the radio-delete seems kind of silly, since a radio and two floormats combined can’t weigh more than a few pounds, can they? And after a week in the car we can tell you, we were begging for entertainment in Los Angeles crawling traffic. Even a CB would have been nice to talk to the truckers.

Our theory is that the radio-delete was a misplaced effort to reduce sticker price. If that’s the case, why not do without the high-intensity discharge headlamps, cruise control and climate-control system with semiautomatic air filtration, all of which are standard and have to weigh more than a floormat? Subaru says it’s because you can’t add those features after-sale and the dash is prewired for audio. Hmph. Doing it our way would get the base sticker well under 30K, but then the fewer packages offered, the less it costs to produce. Blah, blah, blah...

The seats are unique to this car and very racy, indeed. They’re not claustrophobic like real race seats, but they provide much more side bolstering than you’d get in almost any other production car.

The aluminum-trimmed instrument panel is unique, with a 160-mph speedometer and a wildly optimistic 9000-rpm tach—optimistic since redline is 7000. At least you won’t have to change it if you massage the motor to spin faster.

Turn that racy key and the flat four rattles to life. Despite Subaru’s claim that the engine’s opposing cylinder banks cancel out each other’s vibrations, Subaru flat fours have never been as NVH-free as Honda or Toyota inline fours, but that’s part of their character. This engine has the Active Valve Control System (AVCS), Subaru’s version of variable valve timing, to control both the intake and exhaust sides of the dual-overhead cams. AVCS can adjust the cams as much as 35 degrees. The turbo provides a mighty 14.5 psi of boost, compared to 13.5 for the WRX, and is fed through a large intercooler mounted directly on top of the engine and directly underneath that Pro Stock hood scoop. Water lines, like those made for windshield-washer fluid, spray water on the intercooler when you hit the center console-mounted switch. We never noticed any difference in engine power with or without the spray going, even at the test track where we should have seen an improvement, but it’s a cute gimmick—and probably truly useful in rallies, where special stages tend to get everything hot and keep it there.

Subaru’s first six-speed manual trans-mission is attached to that engine. With all the torque, boost and variable valve timing available here, we guess a five-speed would have done the job but a six-speed seems almost required nowadays for marketing purposes. The gearing is mighty low, too. You can’t get to 60 mph in second gear, for instance, and you need fifth for the quarter-mile, which will hurt the car’s performance stats some. The gearing seems set up for those short, tight rally courses. That’s where the DCCD would come in handy.

The DCCD adjusts torque from the stock 35 front/65 rear to as much as 50/50. A switch on the dash converts that torque split to manual control, which is adjusted by a small wheel in the center console. Lights on the dash delineate how much rear load you have dialed in. Luckily, you can just leave the DCCD in “automatic” and let it and the car’s computer brain do all the work. We tried it both ways and always felt better letting the ECM do all the thinking.

Limited-slip differentials are mounted front and rear. The front diff is made of face cams and cam followers that come in contact when the car is cornering and torque is applied. The rear differential is a mechanical clutch type.

The STi shares the WRX’s front MacPherson struts and rear dual-link struts in basic geometry, but the body is lowered by almost a half-inch. The front lower L-arms are forged aluminum to reduce unsprung weight. The struts themselves are “inverted,” turned upside down with an extra shock tube for greater bending resistance.

Brakes are four-wheel Brembo discs, 12.7 inches in front with four-piston calipers and 12.3 inches in the rear with two-piston calipers. When we tested it, the STi stopped from 60 mph in just 114 feet. Tires are 225/45 ZR-rated Bridgestone Potenza RE070s with unidirectional summer treads mounted on 17-inch BBS alloys.

On the road all those differentials feel noticeably unlike your generic front-drive compact sedan. Lift off the gas during easy cornering and you can feel the front diff separate and the car pull to the outside; get back on the gas and the differential connects to limit slip and pull the car around the corner.

Higher-speed driving is another thing altogether. We got to take many, many laps around the infield road course of the California Speedway. At first we tiptoed around, trying different DCCD settings. With the center diff locked at 50/50, driving felt mighty weird. Turn-in was awkward and exiting turns felt stunted. This mode is more for getting unstuck from mud and snow than for high-speed lapping. Biased all the way back, the center differential was in 35/65 mode, which was a little more fun but only slightly less awkward.

After a while, we decided it was best left in automatic mode and we started flinging the STi sideways through the speedway’s big sweepers and its series of double-lane-change turns. That was where we found the STi to be so stable. It wasn’t long before we were approaching the double-right-angle corners in full pendulum mode, swinging the rear out wide and tromping on the power on the way out. It was an invincible feeling. Or, “Yeehaaa,” as they say back at Fuji Heavy Industries.

Later we ran it through our standard slalom course at the speedway and recorded a speed of 47.0 mph, almost as fast as we’ve ever gone through the thing. It was a mile an hour faster than the original WRX, the Sentra SE-R Spec V and even the M3. The only thing in recent tests that bested it was the Mitsubishi Evolution (see sidebar), which cranked through the cones at 48.1 mph.

We also ran it through the speedway’s drag strip, our usual testing location, and got it from 0 to 60 in 4.78 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 13.36 seconds at 100.2 mph. Better than everything outside of the supercar range.

It’s like the WRX, only more so.

Subaru plans to bring only 3600 of these into the country a year, with prices expected in the low-$30,000 range, closer to $30,000 than $35,000, we’re told. That’s about $15,000 less than an M3. Granted, it’s nowhere near as refined as an M3, but if you’re not big on refinement and are big on performance numbers and fun, your car has arrived. Ten years late.
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Old 05-05-2003, 12:30 PM
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*sigh* the gearing thing sux, but its still good
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Old 05-05-2003, 01:20 PM
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Maybe, but it all depends on how you look at it. As stated in the review: "The gearing seems set up for those short, tight rally courses."

Which makes the most sense given where the car came from, no? Overall I feel the STi looks nicer than the Evo and, overall, a slight performance difference between the two isn't a big deal to me. I've been waiting to get my WRX for some time and I'll finally be getting my STi in a couple of months and certainly won't complain about the minor speed difference. After all, there will always be better (faster) cars available but it seems to me that the STi is designed not to appeal so much to people who just want a fast car, but rather to those who want something closer to the rally version than the plain WRX offers.


Now, having said that...I agree that the lack of a radio is a bit weird since I can't imagine _not_ adding one.


Personally, I'd love to see the Evo and STi compared/tested on something more similar to a rally course than the normal speed tests most places perform. After all, neither car is really designed to be a straight-line performer although that is what most people will use them for. (I'm sure you'll see just as many people taking their brand new "rally cars" offroad as you see people taking their SUVs off road...there will always be some, but that's not what most people would subject their cars to)
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Old 05-05-2003, 01:32 PM
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About the lack of radio. I am assuming that means no speakers too. And if yes, I am also assuming that the speaker mounts are there right?
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Old 05-05-2003, 01:37 PM
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When I talked to my dealer he said that they could install the radio as a dealer accessory. Given what was stated in the above article, the wiring for the audio appears to be there so I can't imagine the speaker mounts would be gone. As stated, it's likely just a way for them to keep the sticker price low (not to save weight). After all, the dealer will make a nice profit on the install if you purchase your setup from them (and I imagine many people will) since they can likely drop a system right in.
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Old 05-05-2003, 11:11 PM
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I just got my C&D in the mail today with a comparo of these 2 cars. This time compared at the same time under the same conditions.

0-60
Evo: 5.0
WRX: 4.6

0-100
Evo: 13.5
WRX: 12.4

1/4 mile
Evo: 13.6 @ 101
WRX: 13.2 @ 103

70-0
Evo: 157'
WRX: 166'

Roadholding
Evo: .90g
WRX: .90g

Emergency lane change
Evo: 71.5 mph
WRX: 72.5 mph

Curb weight
Evo: 3260
WRX: 3260
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Old 05-05-2003, 11:51 PM
  #33  
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Originally posted by Deathlok
Personally, I'd love to see the Evo and STi compared/tested on something more similar to a rally course than the normal speed tests most places perform.
Pick up the latest C&D. There's a full road test on both cars, then a little 1 page article where both cars were tested by retired rally driver Rod Millen. It's doesn't say much, but Millen felt more comfortable in the Evo. It handled the corners better and wasn't as "nervous" as the STI. But with the extra 29 hp the STI turned in a time very close to the Evo in the 0.9 mile rally course: Evo- 48.62 sec, top speed 115. WRX- 48.89, top speed 122.
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Old 05-06-2003, 12:01 AM
  #34  
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Thanks, I'll pick it up tomorrow.

Overall, I personally like the STi regardless of the performance numbers (although I'd be hesitant to buy it if there was a _huge_ gap (say, given the choice of the Evo or the regular WRX I probably just wouldn't buy either) but the STi is nice enough and close enough where the difference in performance isn't going to affect my buying decision.) because there will always be something faster.
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:43 AM
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Fock 5th in the 1/4, that is insane. Most sports cars need 3rd, no more than 4th.
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Old 05-06-2003, 02:00 AM
  #36  
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Deathlok, you will be bringing it to the track right? I'm definately gonna wanna see that in person.
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:09 AM
  #37  
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Originally posted by danny25
I just got my C&D in the mail today with a comparo of these 2 cars. This time compared at the same time under the same conditions.

0-60
Evo: 5.0
WRX: 4.6

0-100
Evo: 13.5
WRX: 12.4

1/4 mile
Evo: 13.6 @ 101
WRX: 13.2 @ 103

70-0
Evo: 157'
WRX: 166'

Roadholding
Evo: .90g
WRX: .90g

Emergency lane change
Evo: 71.5 mph
WRX: 72.5 mph

Curb weight
Evo: 3260
WRX: 3260
i dont care what these cars look like.. these numbers are impressive no matter what you're talking about... and the fact that they are 4 door and price geared towards younger buyers is even more remarkable..
if anyone read the editor's notes in motor trend it is about the pony wars of the early 90's with ford and chevy.. these 2 jap car makers are making buying a new car as hard as it was back then.. great article btw..
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:19 AM
  #38  
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he better, or I'll kick his ass.
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Old 05-06-2003, 03:20 PM
  #39  
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I dont care which one is faster. The sti just yells get the hell out of my way.
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Old 05-06-2003, 03:36 PM
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I just read the article and realized that the sti does not have a stereo. NO STEREO what the f4ck are they thinking. Sure i love the sound of the engine, but taking a trip without music is idiotic.
Well, with #s like that i cant stay mad at subaru i just hope they have space to fit some speakers and cd player.
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