duugk

I never heard the final investigative results from NASCAR. Was it really due to going strait into the wall that got him? I remember clearly Ayrton Senna's head on with the wall which was also about 180mph, now that was violent. Earnhart's crash didn't seem to me to look any worse than any other of the normal NASCAR crashes. I heard rumors that he had made a cut or two on his seat belt for comfort reasons and that may have been the difference between surviving or not. I don't know, but wearing your seat belt properly should probably be mentioned here.

Yeah, basic physics should be part of driver ed.

That pic is a perfect example of energy being dissapated by the way, sorry to hear everyone didn't survive.

Skull One_RENAMED

She hates me when I am the passanger and tell her to slow down to the speed limit. In city it is at or below the speed limit. My wife hates that, she says I drive like an old person. Highway I will fudge to 5 over unless I have 20 car lenght in front and back and then I will open the throttle up to a safe speed for the car that I am in.

I actually turned down a shot a driving open wheel cars about 18 years ago. My reaction times and eye sight were very good back then. I wouldn't dare try that now. I know my limits and stay within them.

Skull One_RENAMED

Even if the seat belt had been 100%, it would not have helped. He went from 178 to 0 to fast. It snapped the head foward so violently that it actually tore up the neck and lower brain stem.

Military makes all newbies watch 4 hours of films that cover nothing but crashes. I wish they showed those tapes at high schools. I haven't driven fast with other cars around since seeing them.

pcinoc

You're right, you won't have a problem with the S80 because it won't make it to 120MPH unless you go downhill.

Seriously, the dynamics are very different as speed increases but since you bring the fact that possibly BMW, Mercedes and your beloved Volvo - don't get me wrong I like Volvos but I think they live on a reputation acquired years ago and not necessarily sustained in today's car - perform much better than Acura and Honda, now is time to show me the data! I'm an engineer and I like to see FACTS! Show me the data

pcinoc

Here is your chance Skull - Stop telling us about the virtues of the Oh Great Volvos - show us the insurance agency ratings of today's Volvos vs Acuras. Put the numbers on the table and end the discussion. If one is a level of magnitude above the other, the number won't lie. As far as I can tell, S80/S60 vs TL is a good comparison as they are similar in size.

Do us all a favor and show us the insurance agency ratings. I want to be convinced with hard cold numbers & references to the provenance of those numbers.

gvahe

This is an interesting article on Safety. Thought it was quite applicable for this thread!! Enjoy!


http://www.cars.com/news/stories/103...y&aff=national

DEVO

I don't care what car you are driving in. A head on collision at 90mph without a seatbelt you are going to die. So I don't believe you.

pcinoc

Don't forget to update your insurance policy. Since you will be talking to them soon to get the data I asked for, don't waste time and get maximum coverage!

Skull One_RENAMED

Good, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Which is one reason why newspaper and maginze subscriptions are down.

But since you chimed in, so will I. I don't care if you believe me or not. Your belief doesn't change the fact of what I (and my family) saw when we bought my S80.

Skull One_RENAMED

LOL, I already carry 1 million, should I get more?

Skull One_RENAMED

That is a damn fine idea. Give me a few days to get the data together so we can do apples to apples compares. My big issues is going to be finding both offset as well as true head on data.

Skull One_RENAMED

That article states very well why I only looked at the '03 Acura MDX and '03 Volvo XC90 for my wife as a daily driver. Both cars have similar safety features including frame changes for different size/weight vehicle impacts. I will be even happier when a 100% complete system becomes available for the MDX and I get that for my wife.

KC 2004 TSX

This has to be the all new most ridiculous statement. I know emotions are a play but you can't know for a fact anyone will live or die in an impact of this kind.

Don't do drugs and stay in school kids

Skull One_RENAMED

LOL, I was trying to make a "stand out" statement. Which by the very fact you commented on it, means it worked. But the reality of the situtation is much more convoluted. Which is why I am doing research on most of the cars mentioned in this thread. And we already discussed the whole issue with impact speeds of 2 cars of different makes and the fact that while the driver might have lived if hitting a wall, the other car may throw a part that kills the driver. There are so many variables involved no one, on this planet, can predict an accidents outcome. Hell a 5 cent screw could be thrown from an impact at that speed and kill a person no directly involved with the accident.

DEVO

I'll add this. I'm not a fan of Volvo driver's and their rhetoric about it's safety. I have heard countless stories on the car's safety... only to discover that had the driver of the car had a clue, the accident could have been avoided all together. Not to mention 99.99% of the accidents reported by Volvo drivers sound survivable by 99.99% of the cars out there. Is Volvo the safest car out there? I doubt it, and if you are a Volvo driver it begs the question why spend the extra money if you going to drive 15mph under every posted speed limit. Practically every Volvo drivers I've ever seen on the road drives slower than a snail. Oh! there is a car slowing down ahead (500 meters) better slow down!!! Oh, I don't know how to take a left... better plan my route by taking rights only... etc...

Skull One_RENAMED

LOL. Where to even start.

Please come to DFW Texas and see how many Volvos are driven below the speed limit. I can save you the trip and tell you right now, damn near none. Now I have seen this before in Sun City East/West out in AZ, as well as in parts of Florida (lived in both states). So I am going to a bad thing and assume you live in an area where the average age of the driver of Volvos is over 50 and they do everything they can to avoid accidents by driving slow. Personally, I can't find a fault with that. As long as they are doing the minimum speed on the road they are driving, I have no beef.

Now as for why people buy a 44k+ vehicle, well that is an individual taste situation. Me, I bought mine because it was 1) Safe (to include traction control and other features). 2) Damn fast when I need it to be. I can turn a 0 to 60 in 6.5 every time. 3) Car looks beautiful. 4) Best geartronic system out at the time. 5) Sound system 6) Lots of room. BTW, I bought the Acura MDX for DAMN near the same reason save for #4 and 0 to 6 is 8 seconds. OH and my third toy, the '04 Corvette, I bought for the same exact reason save for #4 and my 0 to 6 in it is 5 seconds. All three cars in their class are the safest ones made for the money at the time of production. In 1999 when my S80 came out, Acura was not at the level it is today. Which is what is going to make my data research that much harder to compare. Esp since the '04 TLs don't have a lot of data published (easy public access) yet.

If you don't like Volvos and their drivers that is fine. I am not going to lose any sleep over it. But do you really think it is fair to knock people around you don't know?

DEVO

Yeah it's fair. But I have to state that I don't like Volvo drivers driving abilities. I don't hate the actual person. I have many friends that are Volvo drivers and I hate the way they drive. I can't count the number of times I had to pass a Volvo drivers being in the front of a long caravan of cars...doing the Sunday drive on Monday!

I know there are exception to all blanket statements. My parents owned a Volvo and they (well my Dad) can drive. But again, around here and I have driven pretty much the entire east coast... I have found that the "typical" Volvo driver isn't buying the car for it's performance...they bought into the "safety" aspect of the car and drive accordingly. This image is one of the main reason I never consider buying a Volvo.

pcinoc

Don't ask me, ask your wife! Wait, you already now the answer: "Well is that all you can do? You should really try to get the maximum coverage you can get based on your age and your health condition. 1M is barely going to cover the down payment of my new house and you know I will need some new clothes to go out and some shopping money. Did I tell you how much I love you lately?

Skull One_RENAMED

OK, when did you meet my wife?????


I am about 70% thru the research. I have to normalize the data so it can be read easily. I will also be posting all the links I used for the research. Looks like I will be using mostly data from 2003s. I will include some data from 2000 as well (just to show progress). Still haven't found data on the '04 TL that I can actually use in comparision.

AcUrAgUy

The only Volvo driver I know, while a good friend, sucks as a driver. He couldn't be more out of touch with his surroundings if he tried. And one time he couldn't have taken a longer route if he tried. He added 15 minutes to a 10 minute drive!!! I don't ride with him anymore. Drives me freakin nuts. I guess it's good he drives a Volvo. He will cause an accident one day. I still think Volvo's are ugly and therefore can't consider one for myself.

pcinoc

You don't want to know when/where I meet with your wife

Glad you are doing the research. BTW, since you are doing the research, provide the RAW data as well as your normalizing sounds too much like fudging! No magic tricks.

I'm not interested in the data from 10 years ago either. Recent data will be interesting to see - unbiased data that is.

Skull One_RENAMED

Oh yeah, raw data with the links to the pages I got the data from will be listed. I am basically going to take the best rated car of the group and assign that as 100%. Then each car in the comparision will be assigned a % less than 100% to show the difference from the baseline. So the lower the percentage the worse the car did. In that respect we should get a good picture of the Volvo, BMW, Mercede Benze, Acura, Honda and Toyota. Hell I might (if I can find data) throw in my Vette for fun The 2003 data is going to be 90% of my findings. I want to include the 2000 data for the S80 (and possibly the Acura) because I know that after the testing, the 2001 S80 had all the corrections to get rid of the 2 bad comments it received. That way you know for sure I am not being biased by showing just the latest and greatest data.

I think I will have all of this posted Friday morning based on my data gathering rate (I.E. I am reading everything twice before I include it). Should I start a new topic when I post the data???

DEVO

Yes... new topic.... but post a link to it in here.

ccheung

All I want to say is.... Safety should be taken in a more proactive way. Be a responsible driver! Drive safe and don't think that you are driving a tank, you can be ignorant and ignore other people's safety. I love the cars.com article! Thanks!