The safest cars in the market!
#41
Originally posted by Skull One
Dissapation of energy over time is the key to surviving a high speed impact. Which is why Dale Earnhardt was killed instantly. His car went straight into the wall at 178 MPH and the car stayed almost intact. Which means something had to give. Sadly it was his life.
And yes, most of understand the basic of physics. Some of us however like to keep things simple so that the conversation doesn't get out of hand and everyone (regardless of age and education) can add something meaningful to the conversation.
Saying someone is smoking funny stuff isn't meaningful or even useful.
Dissapation of energy over time is the key to surviving a high speed impact. Which is why Dale Earnhardt was killed instantly. His car went straight into the wall at 178 MPH and the car stayed almost intact. Which means something had to give. Sadly it was his life.
And yes, most of understand the basic of physics. Some of us however like to keep things simple so that the conversation doesn't get out of hand and everyone (regardless of age and education) can add something meaningful to the conversation.
Saying someone is smoking funny stuff isn't meaningful or even useful.
Yeah, basic physics should be part of driver ed.
That pic is a perfect example of energy being dissapated by the way, sorry to hear everyone didn't survive.
#42
Originally posted by duugk
You left out the fact that your wife hates you when you are off the track...You're not Jeff Gordon or someone like that are you?
You left out the fact that your wife hates you when you are off the track...You're not Jeff Gordon or someone like that are you?
I actually turned down a shot a driving open wheel cars about 18 years ago. My reaction times and eye sight were very good back then. I wouldn't dare try that now. I know my limits and stay within them.
#43
Originally posted by duugk
I never heard the final investigative results from NASCAR. Was it really due to going strait into the wall that got him? I remember clearly Ayrton Senna's head on with the wall which was also about 180mph, now that was violent. Earnhart's crash didn't seem to me to look any worse than any other of the normal NASCAR crashes. I heard rumors that he had made a cut or two on his seat belt for comfort reasons and that may have been the difference between surviving or not. I don't know, but wearing your seat belt properly should probably be mentioned here.
Yeah, basic physics should be part of driver ed.
That pic is a perfect example of energy being dissapated by the way, sorry to hear everyone didn't survive.
I never heard the final investigative results from NASCAR. Was it really due to going strait into the wall that got him? I remember clearly Ayrton Senna's head on with the wall which was also about 180mph, now that was violent. Earnhart's crash didn't seem to me to look any worse than any other of the normal NASCAR crashes. I heard rumors that he had made a cut or two on his seat belt for comfort reasons and that may have been the difference between surviving or not. I don't know, but wearing your seat belt properly should probably be mentioned here.
Yeah, basic physics should be part of driver ed.
That pic is a perfect example of energy being dissapated by the way, sorry to hear everyone didn't survive.
Military makes all newbies watch 4 hours of films that cover nothing but crashes. I wish they showed those tapes at high schools. I haven't driven fast with other cars around since seeing them.
#44
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South OC, CA
Age: 57
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
I tell you what, you get to drive the '04 TL and I will drive my little old 2000 S80 and we will do a nice slow impact head on. Say impact speed of 120 MPH. But before we do this make sure your will and life insurance are up to date before this little crash test. Simply put, you have a chance of dying at that impact speed in the TL. I know for a fact I won't in my S80. I have seen what happens to an S80 at 90 MPH, hitting a fixed object. The only reason the driver didn't walk away under his own power was because he wasn't wearing his seat belt. He hair-line fractured his right hip on the gear shift when his body left the seat. So he required someone to help balance him as he limped to the ambulance.
While I think safety testing at 40 MPH with fixed barriers are good ideas to get base lines data, the real tests are the 100+ mph impacts. And trust me BMW, Volvo and Mercede Benz are the top 3 cars when it comes to those types of impacts.
I tell you what, you get to drive the '04 TL and I will drive my little old 2000 S80 and we will do a nice slow impact head on. Say impact speed of 120 MPH. But before we do this make sure your will and life insurance are up to date before this little crash test. Simply put, you have a chance of dying at that impact speed in the TL. I know for a fact I won't in my S80. I have seen what happens to an S80 at 90 MPH, hitting a fixed object. The only reason the driver didn't walk away under his own power was because he wasn't wearing his seat belt. He hair-line fractured his right hip on the gear shift when his body left the seat. So he required someone to help balance him as he limped to the ambulance.
While I think safety testing at 40 MPH with fixed barriers are good ideas to get base lines data, the real tests are the 100+ mph impacts. And trust me BMW, Volvo and Mercede Benz are the top 3 cars when it comes to those types of impacts.
Seriously, the dynamics are very different as speed increases but since you bring the fact that possibly BMW, Mercedes and your beloved Volvo - don't get me wrong I like Volvos but I think they live on a reputation acquired years ago and not necessarily sustained in today's car - perform much better than Acura and Honda, now is time to show me the data! I'm an engineer and I like to see FACTS! Show me the data
#45
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South OC, CA
Age: 57
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
Do me a favor, show me the insurance agency ratings for the last 20 years on these crash test. Lets see how many Honda products vs Volvo are on it.
Edit: ALSO, remember Volvo only has about 12 models in the last 20 years, vs Honda/Acura which has probably closer 40 in the last 20. So make sure you compare apples to apples on counts.
Do me a favor, show me the insurance agency ratings for the last 20 years on these crash test. Lets see how many Honda products vs Volvo are on it.
Edit: ALSO, remember Volvo only has about 12 models in the last 20 years, vs Honda/Acura which has probably closer 40 in the last 20. So make sure you compare apples to apples on counts.
Do us all a favor and show us the insurance agency ratings. I want to be convinced with hard cold numbers & references to the provenance of those numbers.
#46
This is an interesting article on Safety. Thought it was quite applicable for this thread!! Enjoy!
http://www.cars.com/news/stories/103...y&aff=national
http://www.cars.com/news/stories/103...y&aff=national
#47
Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
I tell you what, you get to drive the '04 TL and I will drive my little old 2000 S80 and we will do a nice slow impact head on. Say impact speed of 120 MPH. But before we do this make sure your will and life insurance are up to date before this little crash test. Simply put, you have a chance of dying at that impact speed in the TL. I know for a fact I won't in my S80. I have seen what happens to an S80 at 90 MPH, hitting a fixed object. The only reason the driver didn't walk away under his own power was because he wasn't wearing his seat belt. He hair-line fractured his right hip on the gear shift when his body left the seat. So he required someone to help balance him as he limped to the ambulance.
While I think safety testing at 40 MPH with fixed barriers are good ideas to get base lines data, the real tests are the 100+ mph impacts. And trust me BMW, Volvo and Mercede Benz are the top 3 cars when it comes to those types of impacts.
I tell you what, you get to drive the '04 TL and I will drive my little old 2000 S80 and we will do a nice slow impact head on. Say impact speed of 120 MPH. But before we do this make sure your will and life insurance are up to date before this little crash test. Simply put, you have a chance of dying at that impact speed in the TL. I know for a fact I won't in my S80. I have seen what happens to an S80 at 90 MPH, hitting a fixed object. The only reason the driver didn't walk away under his own power was because he wasn't wearing his seat belt. He hair-line fractured his right hip on the gear shift when his body left the seat. So he required someone to help balance him as he limped to the ambulance.
While I think safety testing at 40 MPH with fixed barriers are good ideas to get base lines data, the real tests are the 100+ mph impacts. And trust me BMW, Volvo and Mercede Benz are the top 3 cars when it comes to those types of impacts.
I don't care what car you are driving in. A head on collision at 90mph without a seatbelt you are going to die. So I don't believe you.
#48
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South OC, CA
Age: 57
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
ROTFLMAO, let me check with my wife on that one
ROTFLMAO, let me check with my wife on that one
#49
Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by DEVO
I don't care what car you are driving in. A head on collision at 90mph without a seatbelt you are going to die. So I don't believe you.
I don't care what car you are driving in. A head on collision at 90mph without a seatbelt you are going to die. So I don't believe you.
But since you chimed in, so will I. I don't care if you believe me or not. Your belief doesn't change the fact of what I (and my family) saw when we bought my S80.
#50
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by pcinoc
Don't forget to update your insurance policy. Since you will be talking to them soon to get the data I asked for, don't waste time and get maximum coverage!
Don't forget to update your insurance policy. Since you will be talking to them soon to get the data I asked for, don't waste time and get maximum coverage!
LOL, I already carry 1 million, should I get more?
#51
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by pcinoc
Here is your chance Skull - Stop telling us about the virtues of the Oh Great Volvos - show us the insurance agency ratings of today's Volvos vs Acuras. Put the numbers on the table and end the discussion. If one is a level of magnitude above the other, the number won't lie. As far as I can tell, S80/S60 vs TL is a good comparison as they are similar in size.
Do us all a favor and show us the insurance agency ratings. I want to be convinced with hard cold numbers & references to the provenance of those numbers.
Here is your chance Skull - Stop telling us about the virtues of the Oh Great Volvos - show us the insurance agency ratings of today's Volvos vs Acuras. Put the numbers on the table and end the discussion. If one is a level of magnitude above the other, the number won't lie. As far as I can tell, S80/S60 vs TL is a good comparison as they are similar in size.
Do us all a favor and show us the insurance agency ratings. I want to be convinced with hard cold numbers & references to the provenance of those numbers.
#52
Originally posted by gvahe
This is an interesting article on Safety. Thought it was quite applicable for this thread!! Enjoy!
http://www.cars.com/news/stories/103...y&aff=national
This is an interesting article on Safety. Thought it was quite applicable for this thread!! Enjoy!
http://www.cars.com/news/stories/103...y&aff=national
#53
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
I tell you what, you get to drive the '04 TL and I will drive my little old 2000 S80 and we will do a nice slow impact head on. Say impact speed of 120 MPH. But before we do this make sure your will and life insurance are up to date before this little crash test. Simply put, you have a chance of dying at that impact speed in the TL. I know for a fact I won't in my S80.
I tell you what, you get to drive the '04 TL and I will drive my little old 2000 S80 and we will do a nice slow impact head on. Say impact speed of 120 MPH. But before we do this make sure your will and life insurance are up to date before this little crash test. Simply put, you have a chance of dying at that impact speed in the TL. I know for a fact I won't in my S80.
This has to be the all new most ridiculous statement. I know emotions are a play but you can't know for a fact anyone will live or die in an impact of this kind.
Don't do drugs and stay in school kids
#54
Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by KC 2004 TSX
This has to be the all new most ridiculous statement. I know emotions are a play but you can't know for a fact anyone will live or die in an impact of this kind.
Don't do drugs and stay in school kids
This has to be the all new most ridiculous statement. I know emotions are a play but you can't know for a fact anyone will live or die in an impact of this kind.
Don't do drugs and stay in school kids
#55
Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
Good, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Which is one reason why newspaper and maginze subscriptions are down.
But since you chimed in, so will I. I don't care if you believe me or not. Your belief doesn't change the fact of what I (and my family) saw when we bought my S80.
Good, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Which is one reason why newspaper and maginze subscriptions are down.
But since you chimed in, so will I. I don't care if you believe me or not. Your belief doesn't change the fact of what I (and my family) saw when we bought my S80.
I'll add this. I'm not a fan of Volvo driver's and their rhetoric about it's safety. I have heard countless stories on the car's safety... only to discover that had the driver of the car had a clue, the accident could have been avoided all together. Not to mention 99.99% of the accidents reported by Volvo drivers sound survivable by 99.99% of the cars out there. Is Volvo the safest car out there? I doubt it, and if you are a Volvo driver it begs the question why spend the extra money if you going to drive 15mph under every posted speed limit. Practically every Volvo drivers I've ever seen on the road drives slower than a snail. Oh! there is a car slowing down ahead (500 meters) better slow down!!! Oh, I don't know how to take a left... better plan my route by taking rights only... etc...
#56
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by DEVO
I'll add this. I'm not a fan of Volvo driver's and their rhetoric about it's safety. I have heard countless stories on the car's safety... only to discover that had the driver of the car had a clue, the accident could have been avoided all together. Not to mention 99.99% of the accidents reported by Volvo drivers sound survivable by 99.99% of the cars out there. Is Volvo the safest car out there? I doubt it, and if you are a Volvo driver it begs the question why spend the extra money if you going to drive 15mph under every posted speed limit. Practically every Volvo drivers I've ever seen on the road drives slower than a snail. Oh! there is a car slowing down ahead (500 meters) better slow down!!! Oh, I don't know how to take a left... better plan my route by taking rights only... etc...
I'll add this. I'm not a fan of Volvo driver's and their rhetoric about it's safety. I have heard countless stories on the car's safety... only to discover that had the driver of the car had a clue, the accident could have been avoided all together. Not to mention 99.99% of the accidents reported by Volvo drivers sound survivable by 99.99% of the cars out there. Is Volvo the safest car out there? I doubt it, and if you are a Volvo driver it begs the question why spend the extra money if you going to drive 15mph under every posted speed limit. Practically every Volvo drivers I've ever seen on the road drives slower than a snail. Oh! there is a car slowing down ahead (500 meters) better slow down!!! Oh, I don't know how to take a left... better plan my route by taking rights only... etc...
Please come to DFW Texas and see how many Volvos are driven below the speed limit. I can save you the trip and tell you right now, damn near none. Now I have seen this before in Sun City East/West out in AZ, as well as in parts of Florida (lived in both states). So I am going to a bad thing and assume you live in an area where the average age of the driver of Volvos is over 50 and they do everything they can to avoid accidents by driving slow. Personally, I can't find a fault with that. As long as they are doing the minimum speed on the road they are driving, I have no beef.
Now as for why people buy a 44k+ vehicle, well that is an individual taste situation. Me, I bought mine because it was 1) Safe (to include traction control and other features). 2) Damn fast when I need it to be. I can turn a 0 to 60 in 6.5 every time. 3) Car looks beautiful. 4) Best geartronic system out at the time. 5) Sound system 6) Lots of room. BTW, I bought the Acura MDX for DAMN near the same reason save for #4 and 0 to 6 is 8 seconds. OH and my third toy, the '04 Corvette, I bought for the same exact reason save for #4 and my 0 to 6 in it is 5 seconds. All three cars in their class are the safest ones made for the money at the time of production. In 1999 when my S80 came out, Acura was not at the level it is today. Which is what is going to make my data research that much harder to compare. Esp since the '04 TLs don't have a lot of data published (easy public access) yet.
If you don't like Volvos and their drivers that is fine. I am not going to lose any sleep over it. But do you really think it is fair to knock people around you don't know?
#57
Yeah it's fair. But I have to state that I don't like Volvo drivers driving abilities. I don't hate the actual person. I have many friends that are Volvo drivers and I hate the way they drive. I can't count the number of times I had to pass a Volvo drivers being in the front of a long caravan of cars...doing the Sunday drive on Monday!
I know there are exception to all blanket statements. My parents owned a Volvo and they (well my Dad) can drive. But again, around here and I have driven pretty much the entire east coast... I have found that the "typical" Volvo driver isn't buying the car for it's performance...they bought into the "safety" aspect of the car and drive accordingly. This image is one of the main reason I never consider buying a Volvo.
I know there are exception to all blanket statements. My parents owned a Volvo and they (well my Dad) can drive. But again, around here and I have driven pretty much the entire east coast... I have found that the "typical" Volvo driver isn't buying the car for it's performance...they bought into the "safety" aspect of the car and drive accordingly. This image is one of the main reason I never consider buying a Volvo.
#58
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South OC, CA
Age: 57
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
LOL, I already carry 1 million, should I get more?
LOL, I already carry 1 million, should I get more?
#59
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by pcinoc
Don't ask me, ask your wife! Wait, you already now the answer: "Well is that all you can do? You should really try to get the maximum coverage you can get based on your age and your health condition. 1M is barely going to cover the down payment of my new house and you know I will need some new clothes to go out and some shopping money. Did I tell you how much I love you lately?
Don't ask me, ask your wife! Wait, you already now the answer: "Well is that all you can do? You should really try to get the maximum coverage you can get based on your age and your health condition. 1M is barely going to cover the down payment of my new house and you know I will need some new clothes to go out and some shopping money. Did I tell you how much I love you lately?
I am about 70% thru the research. I have to normalize the data so it can be read easily. I will also be posting all the links I used for the research. Looks like I will be using mostly data from 2003s. I will include some data from 2000 as well (just to show progress). Still haven't found data on the '04 TL that I can actually use in comparision.
#60
The only Volvo driver I know, while a good friend, sucks as a driver. He couldn't be more out of touch with his surroundings if he tried. And one time he couldn't have taken a longer route if he tried. He added 15 minutes to a 10 minute drive!!! I don't ride with him anymore. Drives me freakin nuts. I guess it's good he drives a Volvo. He will cause an accident one day. I still think Volvo's are ugly and therefore can't consider one for myself.
#61
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South OC, CA
Age: 57
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by Skull One
OK, when did you meet my wife?????
I am about 70% thru the research. I have to normalize the data so it can be read easily. I will also be posting all the links I used for the research. Looks like I will be using mostly data from 2003s. I will include some data from 2000 as well (just to show progress). Still haven't found data on the '04 TL that I can actually use in comparision.
OK, when did you meet my wife?????
I am about 70% thru the research. I have to normalize the data so it can be read easily. I will also be posting all the links I used for the research. Looks like I will be using mostly data from 2003s. I will include some data from 2000 as well (just to show progress). Still haven't found data on the '04 TL that I can actually use in comparision.
Glad you are doing the research. BTW, since you are doing the research, provide the RAW data as well as your normalizing sounds too much like fudging! No magic tricks.
I'm not interested in the data from 10 years ago either. Recent data will be interesting to see - unbiased data that is.
#62
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The safest cars in the market!
Originally posted by pcinoc
You don't want to know when/where I meet with your wife
Glad you are doing the research. BTW, since you are doing the research, provide the RAW data as well as your normalizing sounds too much like fudging! No magic tricks.
I'm not interested in the data from 10 years ago either. Recent data will be interesting to see - unbiased data that is.
You don't want to know when/where I meet with your wife
Glad you are doing the research. BTW, since you are doing the research, provide the RAW data as well as your normalizing sounds too much like fudging! No magic tricks.
I'm not interested in the data from 10 years ago either. Recent data will be interesting to see - unbiased data that is.
I think I will have all of this posted Friday morning based on my data gathering rate (I.E. I am reading everything twice before I include it). Should I start a new topic when I post the data???
#64
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Age: 49
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All I want to say is.... Safety should be taken in a more proactive way. Be a responsible driver! Drive safe and don't think that you are driving a tank, you can be ignorant and ignore other people's safety. I love the cars.com article! Thanks!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Oakes
Wash & Wax
10
10-12-2015 11:17 AM
bshotts
1G RDX Performance Parts & Modifications
0
08-30-2015 02:08 PM